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Old 07/29/2019, 07:46 PM   #1
zheka757
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can some advice me on what to do with my water parameters?

So for the longest time i being waiting for my nitrates to be lowered. and my alkalinity to drop from 10-12 range. well got them both down and my algae is growing more then ever now.
please the a look at my alkalinity lvls for the last 3 tests i did.
from what i learned in the past, per some reefers here, if alkalinity is low that means magnesium is low also?! why is it not the case for me? or is it my 1 year old red sea test kits are not accurate? im worried about my alkalinity lvls
I got sps lps, zoas and mushrooms on my tank. all looks to be ok with some slow growth.


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Old 07/30/2019, 06:23 AM   #2
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Your nitrates have dropped consistently (good) and are 0 now which is not good. I would bring them up to 5-10 ppm range. what are you using to bring nitrates down?
Alk is dropping over the last 3 months, which means your alk consumption is growing due to corals growing or maybe saltmix irregularities etc.
Alk declining has nothing to do with mag. Mag usually keeps a balance between cal and alk. Mag is consistent so thats not the problem
if you are dosing alk solution maybe up the dose a little.
lots of things to know before an accurate advice can be given.
please post tank size and if dosing, then what products, what size of dose etc


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Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300

"Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16

Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 07/30/2019, 08:16 AM   #3
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You misunderstood...
If you are having problems maintaining a consistent cal/alkalinity level then that "may" be because your mag levels are too low..

This would be a good read for you.. I'd suggest reading it all.. Its not too overly scientific at all..
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

It looks like your tank is simply consuming alk faster than you are replenishing it..

Your phosphate level is elevated and often an indication of overfeeding.. That will certainly cause algae issues..

As stated more specific details would help us offer better suggestions.. (tank size/age/feeding schedule/feeding amount/inhabitant list,etc...)


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Old 07/30/2019, 09:13 AM   #4
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400 gallon tank. 60 gallon frag tank. 120gallon sump.
All tied up under one system. So over 550 gallons of water volume. I restarted this tank a little over a year now.
For first 9 months I being doing 50 gallon water changes (reef crystals salt) every other week. The last 3 month it's being once every 3-4 weeks.
Never dosed anything into my tank since I don't have good knowledge on that yet!

Yes, about feeding.... Also changed in the last 3 months I had auto feeder for small pallets 4 times a day. Since day one. I have 4 large tangs in my tank. 2 dwarf angels full size. They consumed those palats within seconds.
In the last 3 month I added coperband butterfly fish. And 4 anthias, and 4 chromies. Only food they interested in is frozen food. 2 cubes a day. And again, all of that gets consumed within seconds.

As far as corals they all being added as frags 4-5 month ago.



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Old 07/30/2019, 08:07 PM   #5
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Your tank is simply consuming alk more than your water changes can keep up with. You may have to look into dosing soda ash in small amounts spread over multiple hours and times throughout the day.
Before you start dosing you will need to know how much the tank consumes on daily basis.
Then using bulk reef supplies calculator you can get a number on how much to dose.


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Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300

"Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16

Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 07/31/2019, 06:17 AM   #6
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Yep.. Alk consumption greater than water change replacement rate..
Considerable amount of food (frozen even) leading to higher phosphate levels..

Time to start looking into dosing as well as possibly gfo for phosphate reduction or
reduction in feeding.. 4 daily pellet feedings as well as + 2 frozen cubes is likely excessive for the amount of fish..


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Old 07/31/2019, 09:38 AM   #7
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Algae is not that big of a deal for me. Most of it is on sandbed, very minimum on the rocks.
Alkalinity is going to be a challenge to dose with very little experience I got with reef tanks in general.


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Old 07/31/2019, 12:53 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by zheka757 View Post
Algae is not that big of a deal for me. Most of it is on sandbed, very minimum on the rocks.
Alkalinity is going to be a challenge to dose with very little experience I got with reef tanks in general.
Measure to establish daily/weekly consumption rate... Dose accordingly..
Measure to verify dosing accuracy... Adjust as needed...
Its a rather simple process..


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Old 07/31/2019, 01:22 PM   #9
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Question, is red sea test acurate enough to see the difference in alkalinity results per/day consumption? I mean should I rather get hanna checker to see more of a digital number vrs eye ball the red sea test kit colors?


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Old 07/31/2019, 01:42 PM   #10
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of cource hanna checker is a better option but you can also get the results from red sea alk test.
All you need to do is test and check today what your tanks alk is at, then a day or 2 later check again and see what the difference is and divide that over 1 or 2 days respectively to know per day consumption. This number will be what you need to replace with dosing.

For example
If today alk is at 9 dkh and 2 days later its at 7dkh so tank consumed 2 dkh in 2 days.
Which means 1 dkh per days is consumption
Using brs calculator if your tank vol is 550g and your desired alk is 9 dkh and your tank is at 8 dkh, you will need to dose 34.9 grams or 8.5 tsp to bring it up to 9dkh.
Thats the amount you probably will need to dose daily spread over many hours.
I would mix that amount in a gal of ro/di water and dose overnight when the pH is low as soda ash will bring the pH up temporarily.


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Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300

"Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16

Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 07/31/2019, 05:58 PM   #11
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For many tanks, the standard kits are precise enough for daily alkalinity measurements to show a difference. That does vary a lot. I'd try daily for a couple of days to see what I got, and work from there.


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Old 07/31/2019, 07:20 PM   #12
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Thank you reefers! Kind of made me feel special that all of you who help me got ton of experience. Please stay tuned to this thread as I'm sure I'll have more questions down the road of chemistry!


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Old 07/31/2019, 07:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka757 View Post
Question, is red sea test acurate enough to see the difference in alkalinity results per/day consumption? I mean should I rather get hanna checker to see more of a digital number vrs eye ball the red sea test kit colors?
Hanna only for Alk


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Old 08/06/2019, 06:43 PM   #14
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So a week later figured out that my usage of alkalinity is between .4 and .5 dkh per day my total water volume is approximately 485g not 550 that i thought i had.
btw i actully did get hanna alk tester. LOVE it. so fast, cant go wrong on measuring it. also being compering it to red sea, and they have being around .2 difference with red sea more on lower side.
Anyways new question i have is what lever should i bring alkalinity up to? today i read article that if my nitrates are low then my alk should be on lower side also, other wise coral tips/ends will be bleaching with low nitrates and high alk?
also how should i lower my phosphates down?
i started dosing and right now i have it at 7.5 soda ash is the product im using for it.


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Old 08/06/2019, 07:16 PM   #15
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Some tanks have problems with higher alkalinity levels (maybe 9-11 dKH) with low nitrate levels. Others don't. I think 8 dKH probably is a fine initial target. It gives some leeway on both sides for measurement problems.

Soda ash is fine. If you keep up a good enough water change schedule, then the changes might be enough to keep the calcium level okay. Otherwise, for every 2.8 total dKH consumed, calcium will drop 20 ppm. That should help with planning. Calcium chloride and soda ash can be used to make a fine DIY 2-part.


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Old 08/06/2019, 07:19 PM   #16
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Yes...lower nutrient levels require lower alkalinity levels..

If your phosphates are elevated you can use gfo or look into reducing feeding or switching foods..


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Old 08/06/2019, 08:11 PM   #17
zheka757
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Yes...lower nutrient levels require lower alkalinity levels..

If your phosphates are elevated you can use gfo or look into reducing feeding or switching foods..
actualy just finished doing my routine testing and my phosphate have droped to .2 since the last time i test 8 days ago and it was .4. i did not do water change in the last 3 weeks and the only thing i have changed is putting 1 cube of frozen shrimp instead of 2.
but i dont see a slowing down of algae growing on the sand-bed. i stir it up and literally i see it back next day taking over.


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Old 08/06/2019, 08:16 PM   #18
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Otherwise, for every 2.8 total dKH consumed, calcium will drop 20 ppm. That should help with planning. Calcium chloride and soda ash can be used to make a fine DIY 2-part.
hopefully alkalinity is all i need for now. from todays testing my calcium have droped by 5pmm since last time i tested(8 days ago). right now its at 450. in


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Old 08/06/2019, 08:25 PM   #19
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Well..algae problems dont just disappear...they can take weeks/months to go away


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Old 08/17/2019, 09:10 PM   #20
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quick question again!
So now im keeping my alkalinity at 8.1-8.2 using 100ml of solution per day.
the problem is i bought a bag of dry mix solution for 1 gallon. and its going to end soon, and for what ever reason i dont remember what brand or what type it is! Is there going to be a problem if i change it to something else and still use the same dose of different mix?


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Old 08/18/2019, 03:47 PM   #21
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The concentration might change, so you might need to compute a new dose. My first guess would be that the product that you are using is equivalent to the normal DIY 2-part using sodium carbonate. If you have a pH meter, you might be able to check that.


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