DIY- "Pins" method of gluing acrylic. - Page 19

Scuba_Steve · 04/10/2007, 01:08 AM

Well this was a great read. I read melev's DIY section first which was also a great help. Thanx for all the good advise everyone!

Now for my questions..........

1. Router table. Where can I buy one with the reversed fence? I am definitely budgeted, so hopefully it wont be to much. Can one be DIYed? Doesnt seem like to hard of a DIY job, I just dont know how hard it would be to secure the router in a fashion so it could be easily removed and be stable enough to not move at all.

2. Melev, you recommend size 18 needles on your site, but last I read you prefer 20s?

3. What is everyones favorite bits by far?

4. How about a good budget router. I know this was just asked, but dewalt and porter are out of my price range with a new tank build coming soon.
How about these?
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...cemldffidfjg.0
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...cemldffidfjg.0
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...cemldffidfjg.0
Or should I just refigure the budget and spend the extra $100-$150?

5. Flame polishing.... Can someone please go in depth on this process?

Acrylics · 04/10/2007, 07:30 AM

Hi Steve,
I'll answer the ones I can.

1) You can easily DIY, I have yet to see one on the commercial market but they may be out there. I just found the pics of my last table build so I'll post pics in the next day or two. It's a litle bigger than most would put in their home but will hopefully give you some ideas.

3) For flush cutters - the Whiteside solid carbide spiral up cuts are my favorite. For straight cutters - no particular brand

4) I'm a firm Porter Cable fan but others have come a long way

5) Flame polishing is just a method of polishing edges using a hydrogen / oxygen torch. I use a jewelers torch mostly but a full size can be used as well. With a jewelers torch, it's just like airbrushing. It heats up and glazes the surface of acrylic leaving a polished edge. I'll try to get pics of this as well.

HTH,
James

spykes · 04/10/2007, 08:30 AM

i have this problem where i take off the pins and certain areas just shoots out weldon. Then afterwards some little micro bubbles starts to form in the center of the glue joint. I tried forcing them out from the glue joint with wedges didn't get all of them. is because im using HD acrylic?

Inflames · 04/10/2007, 11:43 AM

Never used this method of bonding acrylic simply for the fact when the pins are removed you have excess glue. I dont have a router so i cant route it out.

spykes · 04/10/2007, 11:46 AM

it's not the outside im consern about. it is the inside where the speed square is

melev · 04/10/2007, 03:22 PM

If you cut off the corner of the speed square, the solvent will never come in contact with it.

Regarding the needle size, I'm using something that is .035 I think. Another reefer in this thread ordered a bunch of sizes and that was my favorite. However, when trying to get the same from a local accupuncturist, he didn't have a clue what I had even when I gave him a couple. The numbers just didn't make sense to him, and this is his business. Weird.

For a hobbyist making one or two projects, I don't think you need an amazing router. The first one you linked uses 11 amps of power, which is seriously oversized. For this project, you'll probably have it on for a maximum of 15 minutes, or less. The cheap one looks appealing to me only because of the ultra cool LEDs.

Maybe one that is $79 would be good enough for your needs.

I don't use a router table ever. If I ever visit James' shop, that might all change. That's a scary thought.

I've used Spiral Cut router bits and they are awesome. They seem to last forever compared to straight cut bits.

bchbum189 · 04/11/2007, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Acrylics
Hi Steve,

3) For flush cutters - the Whiteside solid carbide spiral up cuts are my favorite.

I absolutely love these bits. They are $$ but seem to last alot longer than cheap ryobi and crap like that.

As for pulling the pins out and it splashes out, you have to really take them out slow, and let the piece settle down as opposed to it simply dropping down. Maybe also try waiting slightly longer for the glue to thicken a little more.

jpndave · 04/11/2007, 10:19 AM

I have used numerous bits from MLCS and their KATANA bits are excellent, better than Bosch and the other name brands at a much better price. I have used flush cut, panel sets, round over, etc. The cheaper, regular line, not so great. I just got one of their sheer angle bits and hope to try it out on acrylic in the next day or so.

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops...arangle_anchor

I agree with James, Porter Cable is my preference for a table mounted router.

steelerguy · 04/11/2007, 08:23 PM

I just wanted to thank everyone who has posted and contributed to this thread. I needed a sump and sent out a few emails to see how much it would be to have it built. It was a little strange of a size 25x10x14 inside dimensions, because the stand for my 50 gallon project is pretty small. After getting prices back anywhere from $250 to $350 plus a minimum of $50 shipping I decided building my own was worth a shot.

I ordered the pieces and the shop I got them from cut them to size for free. I didn't have any scrap, so I figured I would just get to it and hope for the best. I have got to say, for no practice, I am very pleased with the end result. After reading all the posts I decided to make my pins the cheap way and just strip the end of some twist ties. These are two thick if you want to avoid glue seeping out, but I didn't really care if some squirted out, as it didn't have to look perfect to be a sump sitting inside my stand.

I glued the sides to the front, then the back to the sides, then the baffles to the front, then baffles to back, and finally everything to the bottom. All the joints were amazingly bubble free other than the bottom which had a few very small bubbles (due to the cuts not being perfect) but nothing to worry about. I let it cure for a few days, and am currently doing a leak test which so far after a couple hours looks good. I used .25" cell cast acrylic and didn't put a top on it since I figured in real operation it will not be close to being full and the baffles brace it internally. I does not appear to be bowing at all even fully filled for the leak test.

The moral of this story...build your own sump! It was a fun project, came out really well, and is about a fifth to a quarter of the cost of buying a custom one and having it shipped, and pretty simple to do. It took me a few days since I had to glue and wait numerous times, but in a week it was all done and ready to test. I actually found a place that cut and shipped the plexiglas pieces I needed for a little over $50 bucks so I placed two orders in case I screwed up. I'll use thinner wire to build this one and something under it to absorb any glue the squirts out to try to avoid any blemishes. A router would also be handy, but I was able to make due cutting the teeth in for the refugium baffle with a dremel.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone who asked questions and posted comments/suggestions. To those of you on the fence...go for it!

ceg1974 · 04/11/2007, 09:08 PM

Steve,
I usually do woodworking, currently building a refugium based on Melevs webpage. (I am probably consuming his bandwidth). For the router choices, Craftsman are good budget choices. If you are just using for a sump and minor projects, I would just go with the craftsman budget fixed base router (make sure it will accept both 1/4 and 1/2 shank sizes). The plunge base is nice for many woodworking projects, but I usually use tables with fixed base.
For the router table, these are very easy to build. I have built standalone router tables, benchtop designs, and in the table saw designs. Basically you use a router plate for the top (rousseau and bench dog make plates) if you want ease of removing bits by pulling router out of table. Plates are easy to make out of acrylics as well.... I can send you more specifics dependent on what type of table you are thinking of (cost ranges from $30-$100).

Charlie

RokleM · 04/12/2007, 06:38 AM

ceg1974 speaks the truth. My first major project (media reactor) was made with the help of a router plate. It works wonders. I also use my Sears router with $15 straight and trim bits from woodcraft. The board it's inserted into was about $20 at HomeDepot. My plan is to make a number of grow out, frag tanks, QT tanks, and a large replacement sump for my 100 poly.

However, I just got done putting this together last weekend

(router plate is going in the table)

asnatlas · 04/12/2007, 06:47 AM

ceg1974

To Reef Central

spykes · 04/12/2007, 09:57 AM

RokleM wow that's a awesome table saw. Did it come with a rip fence that size?

Scuba_Steve · 04/12/2007, 10:12 AM

To Reef Central
ceg1974!

And thank you for using your first post to give me some advise. More specifics would be great. I will be buying a small table saw along with the router (both things ive needed for some time) I really dont know much about the tables, so I dont know what type im looking for. I want a table like acrylics's with the movable fence on the back side of the acrylic (the dangerous way). Space is a concern as I dont have a full garage to work in, and have to store my tools, and bring them out for each use.
As for Melevs bandwidth..... I think thats why he is selling ro/dis now, just to pay for all the bandwidth we eat.

RokleM · 04/12/2007, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spykes
RokleM wow that's a awesome table saw. Did it come with a rip fence that size?

Yes, but it can just as easily be done with my temporary setup. That's just a piece of straight MDF clamped to the board at the right length so it runs the opposite side against the router bit.

ceg1974 · 04/12/2007, 07:12 PM

Thanks to all for the welcome messages. I sent a PM to Scuba (or least attempted to), for more in depth router table stuff. Didn't really want to get off the subject of gluing acrylic...

melev · 04/13/2007, 08:37 PM

Very nice posts were added to this thread in the past few days. Regarding my bandwidth, you guys ate up 140gigs last month.

Enjoy, we're good.

I love that new tablesaw. The only reason I've not set up a more permanent situation such as that one is because of a lack of room. I tend to have to do a variety of projects in the garage, and I can't give up such space permanently. Tools are shifted from here to there every couple of weeks.

I don't know what I would do with a router table to be honest.

I do need to get some stuff out of the garage, as that would help, but I'm a packrat.

robsee06 · 04/22/2007, 09:14 PM

Hello All,

In the process of making a sump and gluing up some 3/8 acrylic. The seams are 95% perfect with just an occasional bubble. I was wondering if you could check out these bubbles and tell me if you think they will be a big deal. On the one picture you can see some small bubble like things in the foreground of the seam. In the other picture there is a larger single bubble. Neither of these bubble even goes halfway through the seam so I think it shouldn't be too big of a deal but I wanted some expert advice.

What do you guys think?

Acrylics · 04/22/2007, 09:49 PM

I doubt it would be a big deal provide the rest of your joints are fine. Might try putting a gusset over the affected area - just to be sure.
FWIW, try it without letting it soak so long

James

robsee06 · 04/23/2007, 07:49 AM

Hi James,

Thanks for your comments.

Do you know what causes that type of "Bubble" along the edges in the first pic. It seems to have gotten a little worse as the seem cures. Maybe not enough solvent in that area and air gets sucked in as things start shrinking?

Acrylics · 04/23/2007, 08:12 AM

It appears to me to be an area where a shim would have helped. Are you gluing straight on a table or using some sort of foam underneath? I glue with foam under so I can shim between the foam and workpiece without affecting the surounding area too much. Tables may not be perfectly flat, material may have thickness variation, the edge may not be perfectly straight, these are all reaons to use foam and shims (where necessary).
Looks like you tried a shim but probably a little late. Soaking for long periods allows the solvent to "set" before you pull your wires/pins at which point shims are not as useful. as the joint has already started seting. You want to place your shim while the the solvent is still viscous IMO.
What you have is not usually called a "bubble", for some reason the term "creep" is what is generally used to describe this type of thing.
FWIW I use .030" and .060" Lexan as shims. Very thin shims such as this along with foam allows you to be fairly precise in placement without lifting up the work.
Hope this makes sence.

James

robsee06 · 04/23/2007, 08:27 AM

Yes, I agree with everything you are saying...

I wasn't quite getting the whole shim thing but now, with the foam, I understand where you're coming from.

That creeping seems to develop and get worse as the joint cures so I guess I have to nudge a shim if I see the slightest sign of it in the beginning.

I can't tell you how useful this thread has been. Thanks very much!

Acrylics · 04/23/2007, 08:41 AM

There's kinduva "trick" to it. Immediately after gluing & pulling wires, use a fingernail to go around the joint and lift the horizontal (bottom) piece *just slightly*, if there's any solvent movement in joint - you'll know where you need a shim. Go around the entire joint this way, quickly. This is the other cool part of using foam, the foam allows you to actually get a fingernail under it.
With time and practice, you'll learn how the solvent flows and know exactly where the potential problem areas might be. This is the "art" aspect of acrylic work, it becomes more of a "feel" thing which can't necessarily be taught. It has to be practiced and seen many times, and then you just kinda "know".
BTW, if this is the worst part of the joint - you're doing a terrific job

HTH,
James

jpndave · 04/23/2007, 09:08 AM

James,

I must have missed the part about the foam. What type and thickness do you use? Is it just as a support for the Acrylic, like a worksurface? What do you use as shims?

Thanks for all your advice and help here!

Acrylics · 04/23/2007, 10:28 AM

Jpndave,
I simply use camper shell foam (1.25"W x 3/16"thick) available at HD/Lowes. There is a thread entitled "DIY Tank, step by step" which I did a coupla yrs ago that shows pics of it. Also check my gallery as that's where the pics for that thread are located.
.030" & .060" thick Lexan (1/32" & 1/16" respectively) for shims.

HTH,
James

04/10/2007, 01:08 AM	#451
Scuba_Steve Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pooler, Ga Posts: 1,342	Well this was a great read. I read melev's DIY section first which was also a great help. Thanx for all the good advise everyone! Now for my questions.......... 1. Router table. Where can I buy one with the reversed fence? I am definitely budgeted, so hopefully it wont be to much. Can one be DIYed? Doesnt seem like to hard of a DIY job, I just dont know how hard it would be to secure the router in a fashion so it could be easily removed and be stable enough to not move at all. 2. Melev, you recommend size 18 needles on your site, but last I read you prefer 20s? 3. What is everyones favorite bits by far? 4. How about a good budget router. I know this was just asked, but dewalt and porter are out of my price range with a new tank build coming soon. How about these? http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...cemldffidfjg.0 http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...cemldffidfjg.0 http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...cemldffidfjg.0 Or should I just refigure the budget and spend the extra $100-$150? 5. Flame polishing.... Can someone please go in depth on this process? __________________ 40g DIY AIO. DT Size is 27"x18"x17" SCA-301 skimmer, DIY ATS 4"x4" 1 cube setup, Ocean Revive 120w LED, Quiet One 3000, Jager 150w TBS Rock Last edited by Scuba_Steve; 04/10/2007 at 01:21 AM.

04/10/2007, 08:30 AM	#453
spykes Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 422	i have this problem where i take off the pins and certain areas just shoots out weldon. Then afterwards some little micro bubbles starts to form in the center of the glue joint. I tried forcing them out from the glue joint with wedges didn't get all of them. is because im using HD acrylic? __________________ David - Current Tank Info: 125 long 50 gallon sump 3x icecap 250s.

04/10/2007, 11:46 AM	#455
spykes Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 422	it's not the outside im consern about. it is the inside where the speed square is __________________ David - Current Tank Info: 125 long 50 gallon sump 3x icecap 250s.

04/11/2007, 09:08 PM	#460
ceg1974 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Mckinney, TX (Dallas) Posts: 3	router recommendation for Steve Steve, I usually do woodworking, currently building a refugium based on Melevs webpage. (I am probably consuming his bandwidth). For the router choices, Craftsman are good budget choices. If you are just using for a sump and minor projects, I would just go with the craftsman budget fixed base router (make sure it will accept both 1/4 and 1/2 shank sizes). The plunge base is nice for many woodworking projects, but I usually use tables with fixed base. For the router table, these are very easy to build. I have built standalone router tables, benchtop designs, and in the table saw designs. Basically you use a router plate for the top (rousseau and bench dog make plates) if you want ease of removing bits by pulling router out of table. Plates are easy to make out of acrylics as well.... I can send you more specifics dependent on what type of table you are thinking of (cost ranges from $30-$100). Charlie

04/12/2007, 06:38 AM	#461
RokleM Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 9,687	ceg1974 speaks the truth. My first major project (media reactor) was made with the help of a router plate. It works wonders. I also use my Sears router with $15 straight and trim bits from woodcraft. The board it's inserted into was about $20 at HomeDepot. My plan is to make a number of grow out, frag tanks, QT tanks, and a large replacement sump for my 100 poly. However, I just got done putting this together last weekend (router plate is going in the table) __________________ -Eric-

04/10/2007, 07:30 AM	#452
Acrylics Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,230	Hi Steve, I'll answer the ones I can. 1) You can easily DIY, I have yet to see one on the commercial market but they may be out there. I just found the pics of my last table build so I'll post pics in the next day or two. It's a litle bigger than most would put in their home but will hopefully give you some ideas. 3) For flush cutters - the Whiteside solid carbide spiral up cuts are my favorite. For straight cutters - no particular brand 4) I'm a firm Porter Cable fan but others have come a long way 5) Flame polishing is just a method of polishing edges using a hydrogen / oxygen torch. I use a jewelers torch mostly but a full size can be used as well. With a jewelers torch, it's just like airbrushing. It heats up and glazes the surface of acrylic leaving a polished edge. I'll try to get pics of this as well. HTH, James

04/10/2007, 11:43 AM	#454
Inflames Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Norcal Posts: 595	Never used this method of bonding acrylic simply for the fact when the pins are removed you have excess glue. I dont have a router so i cant route it out.

04/10/2007, 03:22 PM	#456
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	If you cut off the corner of the speed square, the solvent will never come in contact with it. Regarding the needle size, I'm using something that is .035 I think. Another reefer in this thread ordered a bunch of sizes and that was my favorite. However, when trying to get the same from a local accupuncturist, he didn't have a clue what I had even when I gave him a couple. The numbers just didn't make sense to him, and this is his business. Weird. For a hobbyist making one or two projects, I don't think you need an amazing router. The first one you linked uses 11 amps of power, which is seriously oversized. For this project, you'll probably have it on for a maximum of 15 minutes, or less. The cheap one looks appealing to me only because of the ultra cool LEDs. Maybe one that is $79 would be good enough for your needs. I don't use a router table ever. If I ever visit James' shop, that might all change. That's a scary thought. I've used Spiral Cut router bits and they are awesome. They seem to last forever compared to straight cut bits.

04/11/2007, 10:19 AM	#458
jpndave Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Hyde Park, UT Posts: 207	I have used numerous bits from MLCS and their KATANA bits are excellent, better than Bosch and the other name brands at a much better price. I have used flush cut, panel sets, round over, etc. The cheaper, regular line, not so great. I just got one of their sheer angle bits and hope to try it out on acrylic in the next day or so. http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops...arangle_anchor I agree with James, Porter Cable is my preference for a table mounted router.

04/11/2007, 08:23 PM	#459
steelerguy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Stony Brook, NY Posts: 263	I just wanted to thank everyone who has posted and contributed to this thread. I needed a sump and sent out a few emails to see how much it would be to have it built. It was a little strange of a size 25x10x14 inside dimensions, because the stand for my 50 gallon project is pretty small. After getting prices back anywhere from $250 to $350 plus a minimum of $50 shipping I decided building my own was worth a shot. I ordered the pieces and the shop I got them from cut them to size for free. I didn't have any scrap, so I figured I would just get to it and hope for the best. I have got to say, for no practice, I am very pleased with the end result. After reading all the posts I decided to make my pins the cheap way and just strip the end of some twist ties. These are two thick if you want to avoid glue seeping out, but I didn't really care if some squirted out, as it didn't have to look perfect to be a sump sitting inside my stand. I glued the sides to the front, then the back to the sides, then the baffles to the front, then baffles to back, and finally everything to the bottom. All the joints were amazingly bubble free other than the bottom which had a few very small bubbles (due to the cuts not being perfect) but nothing to worry about. I let it cure for a few days, and am currently doing a leak test which so far after a couple hours looks good. I used .25" cell cast acrylic and didn't put a top on it since I figured in real operation it will not be close to being full and the baffles brace it internally. I does not appear to be bowing at all even fully filled for the leak test. The moral of this story...build your own sump! It was a fun project, came out really well, and is about a fifth to a quarter of the cost of buying a custom one and having it shipped, and pretty simple to do. It took me a few days since I had to glue and wait numerous times, but in a week it was all done and ready to test. I actually found a place that cut and shipped the plexiglas pieces I needed for a little over $50 bucks so I placed two orders in case I screwed up. I'll use thinner wire to build this one and something under it to absorb any glue the squirts out to try to avoid any blemishes. A router would also be handy, but I was able to make due cutting the teeth in for the refugium baffle with a dremel. Anyway, thanks again to everyone who asked questions and posted comments/suggestions. To those of you on the fence...go for it!

04/12/2007, 06:47 AM	#462
asnatlas Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waukee, IA Posts: 4,198	ceg1974 *To Reef Central* __________________ Shawn

04/12/2007, 09:57 AM	#463
spykes Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 422	RokleM wow that's a awesome table saw. Did it come with a rip fence that size? __________________ David - Current Tank Info: 125 long 50 gallon sump 3x icecap 250s.

04/12/2007, 10:12 AM	#464
Scuba_Steve Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pooler, Ga Posts: 1,342	*To Reef Central* ceg1974! And thank you for using your first post to give me some advise. More specifics would be great. I will be buying a small table saw along with the router (both things ive needed for some time) I really dont know much about the tables, so I dont know what type im looking for. I want a table like acrylics's with the movable fence on the back side of the acrylic (the dangerous way). Space is a concern as I dont have a full garage to work in, and have to store my tools, and bring them out for each use. As for Melevs bandwidth..... I think thats why he is selling ro/dis now, just to pay for all the bandwidth we eat.

04/12/2007, 07:12 PM	#466
ceg1974 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Mckinney, TX (Dallas) Posts: 3	Thanks to all for the welcome messages. I sent a PM to Scuba (or least attempted to), for more in depth router table stuff. Didn't really want to get off the subject of gluing acrylic...

04/13/2007, 08:37 PM	#467
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Very nice posts were added to this thread in the past few days. Regarding my bandwidth, you guys ate up 140gigs last month. Enjoy, we're good. I love that new tablesaw. The only reason I've not set up a more permanent situation such as that one is because of a lack of room. I tend to have to do a variety of projects in the garage, and I can't give up such space permanently. Tools are shifted from here to there every couple of weeks. I don't know what I would do with a router table to be honest. I do need to get some stuff out of the garage, as that would help, but I'm a packrat.

04/22/2007, 09:14 PM	#468
robsee06 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Joliet, IL Posts: 153	Hello All, In the process of making a sump and gluing up some 3/8 acrylic. The seams are 95% perfect with just an occasional bubble. I was wondering if you could check out these bubbles and tell me if you think they will be a big deal. On the one picture you can see some small bubble like things in the foreground of the seam. In the other picture there is a larger single bubble. Neither of these bubble even goes halfway through the seam so I think it shouldn't be too big of a deal but I wanted some expert advice. What do you guys think?

04/22/2007, 09:49 PM	#469
Acrylics Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,230	I doubt it would be a big deal provide the rest of your joints are fine. Might try putting a gusset over the affected area - just to be sure. FWIW, try it without letting it soak so long James

04/23/2007, 07:49 AM	#470
robsee06 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Joliet, IL Posts: 153	Hi James, Thanks for your comments. Do you know what causes that type of "Bubble" along the edges in the first pic. It seems to have gotten a little worse as the seem cures. Maybe not enough solvent in that area and air gets sucked in as things start shrinking?

04/23/2007, 08:12 AM	#471
Acrylics Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,230	It appears to me to be an area where a shim would have helped. Are you gluing straight on a table or using some sort of foam underneath? I glue with foam under so I can shim between the foam and workpiece without affecting the surounding area too much. Tables may not be perfectly flat, material may have thickness variation, the edge may not be perfectly straight, these are all reaons to use foam and shims (where necessary). Looks like you tried a shim but probably a little late. Soaking for long periods allows the solvent to "set" before you pull your wires/pins at which point shims are not as useful. as the joint has already started seting. You want to place your shim while the the solvent is still viscous IMO. What you have is not usually called a "bubble", for some reason the term "creep" is what is generally used to describe this type of thing. FWIW I use .030" and .060" Lexan as shims. Very thin shims such as this along with foam allows you to be fairly precise in placement without lifting up the work. Hope this makes sence. James

04/23/2007, 08:27 AM	#472
robsee06 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Joliet, IL Posts: 153	Yes, I agree with everything you are saying... I wasn't quite getting the whole shim thing but now, with the foam, I understand where you're coming from. That creeping seems to develop and get worse as the joint cures so I guess I have to nudge a shim if I see the slightest sign of it in the beginning. I can't tell you how useful this thread has been. Thanks very much!

04/23/2007, 08:41 AM	#473
Acrylics Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,230	There's kinduva "trick" to it. Immediately after gluing & pulling wires, use a fingernail to go around the joint and lift the horizontal (bottom) piece just slightly, if there's any solvent movement in joint - you'll know where you need a shim. Go around the entire joint this way, quickly. This is the other cool part of using foam, the foam allows you to actually get a fingernail under it. With time and practice, you'll learn how the solvent flows and know exactly where the potential problem areas might be. This is the "art" aspect of acrylic work, it becomes more of a "feel" thing which can't necessarily be taught. It has to be practiced and seen many times, and then you just kinda "know". BTW, if this is the worst part of the joint - you're doing a terrific job HTH, James

04/23/2007, 09:08 AM	#474
jpndave Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Hyde Park, UT Posts: 207	James, I must have missed the part about the foam. What type and thickness do you use? Is it just as a support for the Acrylic, like a worksurface? What do you use as shims? Thanks for all your advice and help here!

04/23/2007, 10:28 AM	#475
Acrylics Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,230	Jpndave, I simply use camper shell foam (1.25"W x 3/16"thick) available at HD/Lowes. There is a thread entitled "DIY Tank, step by step" which I did a coupla yrs ago that shows pics of it. Also check my gallery as that's where the pics for that thread are located. .030" & .060" thick Lexan (1/32" & 1/16" respectively) for shims. HTH, James