Vodka and cyanobacteria

[JohnniG]

I heard this can solve it? It sounds farfetched.

[Jovandfigueroa]

Vodka solves alot of things in my life

[JohnniG]

Vodka can fix any social problems for a while, but I was referring to the tank

[keithhays]

Carbon dosing generally causes cyano outbreaks, but, so far, I haven't heard of it solving it. Though as mentioned before if you have cyano, drinking the vodka definitely helps.

There are several threads happening right now on this, but generally:

1. Higher PH
2. Lower Co2
3. Fewer lights, none if possible.
4. Run GFO in a reactor
5. Do more water changes
6. If you are adventurous, chemiclean underdosed while watching the tank for the whole time period, with enough extra saltwater ready to change out the entire system very quickly should the need arise. ...also extra vodka and orange juice.

[disc1]

Carbon dosing is an effective way to keep nutrients down and that will in turn slow algal growth. I've heard of people having better luck with vinegar than with vodka. Many people starting vodka report cyano outbreaks.

But there's certainly more to it than just drinking the vodka.

[keithhays]

The issue is that cyano is bacteria and not algae, it just happens to be photosynthetic.

[tmz]

I've been dosng 80 porref plain vodka ( ie, 40% ethanol) daily for over 4 years to my aquariums. It enocurages facultative heterotrophic bacteria which take up NO3( nitrate) and PO4( phosphate) . The bacteria in turn are skimmed out . The NO3 and PO4 are not susceptible to skimming. The bacteria also contribute to the food web in the system along the way. Carbohydrates(polymers) like biopellts and starches, monomers( sugars) are also used by some for similar outcomes. I prefer the soluble organics vodka and/or vinegar for a number of reasons .

As for cyano, there are reports of cyanobacterial growth during start up for all of the types of organic carbon being used. Long term it goes away with good husbandry and the persistently low PO4 and NO3 which can be maintained with organic carbon sourcing.

[disc1]

Originally Posted by keithhays

The issue is that cyano is bacteria and not algae, it just happens to be photosynthetic.

They still require nutrients to survive and that's what the carbon dosing is going after.

[tmz]

Originally Posted by disc1

They still require nutrients to survive and that's what the carbon dosing is going after.

I agree.

Not much of a difference amongst photosynthetic bacteria or photosynthetic protists,. They need nutrients. When those nutrient levels change or are collectively or singularly in excess or become more scarce a whole range of organisms are effected

For example,algaes , plants and even corals and photosynthetic clams hold endosymbiont bacteria that are believed to be evolved from and closely related cyanobacteria which enable these organisms to use photosynthesis to meet some of their needs for organic carbon and energy. Some troubles with organic carbon dosing , particularly sugars and monomers or polymers which breakdown to monomers may be effecting these symbionts adversely.

[keithhays]

I think it would be unwise to ignore the connection between carbon dosing and cyanobacterial outbreaks. As I have been watching via different sites like reefcentral, carbon dosing become more popular for treating nitrate issues, I have also see many more outbreaks of cyanobacteria where the OP has recently begun carbon dosing and now suddenly has cyano where they had to never had it before.

[tmz]

Yes, some cyanobacteria seems to be typical but variable from aquarium to aquarium during the early stages of organic carbon dosing as the organic mix in the aquarium and some nutrient consumers settle in to the new circumstances,imo. Exporting organics via skimming and , granulated organic carbon, good aeration , pH manangement, siphoning it out and all the other usual cyano abating techniques are helpful. Employing a consumer might help. Some turbo snails eat it , queen conch will .

[bertoni]

I agree that carbon dosing does seem to cause cyanobacteria outbreaks in some cases. I think that people often manage to work through that issue, though.

[dan-in-gr]

Hi, I had cyano only with bio-pellets and took those out a few months ago, went to vinegar (tried vodka) and everything is great.

[Immers1]

Originally Posted by tmz

Yes, some cyanobacteria seems to be typical but variable from aquarium to aquarium during the early stages of organic carbon dosing as the organic mix in the aquarium and some nutrient consumers settle in to the new circumstances,imo. Exporting organics via skimming and , granulated organic carbon, good aeration , pH manangement, siphoning it out and all the other usual cyano abating techniques are helpful. Employing a consumer might help. Some turbo snails eat it , queen conch will .

Have you ever used a queen conch for this purpose? Do you know how big they get in a tank?

[tmz]

Yes, I had one for a couple of years on a sand bed on, and ;
Yes, over the years they can become very large but it takes some time. I wouldn't use a 16 inch one; more in the one to two inch size range. Some folks use them and trade them off as they grow later.

[DougSupreme]

so, what is the synopsis? Does dosing vodka/vinegar help to get rid of cyano? I see where it might make it worse for a bit, but does it ultimately help?

[bertoni]

The answer is a clear "sometimes, apparently". Tanks are all different in their nutrient loads and profiles. If part of the problem is a high nutrient load, the dosing probably can help, at least eventually. There are many ways of dealing with high nutrient loads, though.

[McPuff]

To be clear, carbon dosing does not "cause" a cyanobacterial outbreak. It simply reduces nutrient competition and allows the cyanobacteria to proliferate. In my experience Chemi-clean is by far the easiest way to get rid of cyano (of course, you still need to ensure your nutrients are under control).

If you reduce the nutrients too quickly, a cyano outbreak seems more likely. If you reduce nutrients relatively slowly, it doesn't seem to happen. In my system, I use GFO and cheato. If using GFO, make sure to use a small amount to begin and then add more after a week or two. Chaeto will grow and remove more and more nutrients as it gets larger... so you've got a natural "ramp-up" in nutrient consumption. Paired with a large skimmer, this method seems to work well.

I have just started dosing silica so it'll be interesting to see if that adds any benefit.

May try vodka dosing at some point but it still "scares" me a bit.

[bertoni]

Chemi-Clean will remove a cyanobacterial infestation, but the problem will come back if there's an underlying problem. I've been through that myself.

[McPuff]

Originally Posted by bertoni

Chemi-Clean will remove a cyanobacterial infestation, but the problem will come back if there's an underlying problem. I've been through that myself.

Yes, exactly. I only use chemi-clean when I know the nutrients are under control and manual efforts simply will not rid the tank of cyano. But it can certainly come back.