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Old 08/09/2018, 03:46 PM   #1
allendehl
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Sick Kole Tang?

Hey guys, noticed that my kole tang is looking like he has a white powder all over. I was able to snap a couple of bad pics. I tried to do better but he is very camera shy. I assume it's not normal.
What is this? And how to deal with it?

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Old 08/09/2018, 07:15 PM   #2
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You seem to describe Ick.
Tangs can be Ick magnets.
Unless you only have fish in your DT (then we can Hypo in the DT) If you diagnos Ick...get all fish out of your DT and into one of the three possible treatments, TTM, Hypo or Cupramine.
See sticky notes for details.

In short, DT must have no fish for 72-76 days.
Fish are treated separately by TTM, or in QT with Hypo or Cupramine.
I use Cupramine on Hardy fish like damsels, and Hypo on delicates like tangs.
Many say TTM is the easiest, this one I have not done.
I can't see no pics, is he got glassy eyes, tried, slow, or breathing not normal, any and all suggest the potential of ick...good luck...

Any suggestion other than the three methods will not work, don't be fooled by Ick-x and Ick away and Ick be gone which suggest you can just pour in stuff and Ick is gone.

Let us know how you progress.



Last edited by Uncle99; 08/09/2018 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 08/09/2018, 09:46 PM   #3
lagatbezan
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^agrer. Sounds like ich or even worst velvet. Velvet is a fast killer and can wipeout your entire tank within 48 hours if you don't act fast. Lots of good info about both in the stickies of the disease section here:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2389659


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Old 08/10/2018, 06:01 AM   #4
allendehl
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Uh for some reason tapatalk didnt attach the pics.
Trying again.

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Old 08/10/2018, 06:28 AM   #5
Uncle99
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That looks like Ick to me.


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Old 08/10/2018, 07:10 AM   #6
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bummer. Time for copper, hypo, or (my favorite) Tank Transfer Method.


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Old 08/10/2018, 07:18 AM   #7
allendehl
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Well that'd be very unfortunate. I do ttm on every fish coming in. Except two leopard wrasses from LA that I put straight in due to their complexity and they died anyways. This was about a month ago.
Since this would be a major PITA I'll post some other pics, as he'll let me, to super confirm the diagnosis.
Kole is swimming and eatimg as usual and no other fish has any sign. Some even decided to show in the photoshoot.

Thank you!

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Old 08/10/2018, 07:20 AM   #8
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Oh and to add to the drama I have two gobies coming in today from LA. SMH.

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Old 08/10/2018, 07:29 AM   #9
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I apologize for the overload.

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Old 08/10/2018, 11:43 AM   #10
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Two small of a tank for a Yellow tang and just barely big enough for a Kole. Two, or more?, in a 72 will cause stress.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1946079


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Old 08/10/2018, 12:20 PM   #11
Rover88
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Its Ich.

My Blue Eye Kole had the exact same thing when my green clown gobies had Ich.

It looks different on the tang then on my other fish, but it was 100% ich. Treating with Cupramine made it go away.

Tank has been fallow for 64 days...


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Old 08/10/2018, 12:26 PM   #12
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If you did TTM exactly correct than the wrasses brought it in. I lost 9 of 10 fish to ick and will never introduce a fish that has not gone through TTM. Never, not one and I am hoping to add two Leopard wrasses in a couple weeks. They WILL go through TTM. There are NO shortcuts in this hobby.

I am now climbing down from my soap box.


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Old 08/10/2018, 12:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkgar View Post
If you did TTM exactly correct than the wrasses brought it in. I lost 9 of 10 fish to ick and will never introduce a fish that has not gone through TTM. Never, not one and I am hoping to add two Leopard wrasses in a couple weeks. They WILL go through TTM. There are NO shortcuts in this hobby.

I am now climbing down from my soap box.
Yeah. I am almost done treating for ich. Lost 3 fish to ich because I was trusting the same LFS and rolling the dice. Now everything gets quarantined and depending on the fish will either be prophylacticly(sp?) treated or TTM.


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Old 08/10/2018, 01:08 PM   #14
allendehl
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Holy Crap!..Ok...let me take a breath here and start figuring out how to:

- Capture all fish
- Take them all through TTM and avoid cross contamination
- Where in heaven I'll keep them safely until fallow is done

...so if anyone has a link, tips, a prayer to the aquarium gods or something that may help, let me know please.

This will NOT be pretty.


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Old 08/10/2018, 01:17 PM   #15
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What I did is remove all inverts and corals to another tank and then did Hypo. in the display Catching the fish can be a night mare without tearing down the tank anyway.

Hypo is very critcal that the correct sg be maintained within specified limits. And theb the necessary water changes to bring back to 1.024 - slowly, .002 per day.


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Old 08/10/2018, 01:33 PM   #16
allendehl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkgar View Post
What I did is remove all inverts and corals to another tank and then did Hypo. in the display Catching the fish can be a night mare without tearing down the tank anyway.

Hypo is very critcal that the correct sg be maintained within specified limits. And theb the necessary water changes to bring back to 1.024 - slowly, .002 per day.
...what about fallow?...or would hypo also kill the ich in the tank? I've been reading and fallow seems to be the only true shot.

also, I just put in a tiny pistol shrimp TODAY!...so tiny that I am lucky if I see him again anytime soon. He may have to be a collateral damage if I go that route unless he devices to show up.


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Old 08/11/2018, 07:05 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkgar View Post
What I did is remove all inverts and corals to another tank and then did Hypo. in the display Catching the fish can be a night mare without tearing down the tank anyway.

Hypo is very critcal that the correct sg be maintained within specified limits. And theb the necessary water changes to bring back to 1.024 - slowly, .002 per day.
@hkgar has the correct solution fir you in your particular circumstance.
He's been there done that so I would follow his lead....

That's a good question on Ick in tank, hypo causes Ick to take in so much water that they literally explode somewhere between 4-10 days after Hypo commences.


@hkgar....did you run hypo for 72?

I would appreciate your insight on this question if you don't mind.

OP, you can take down the salinity to 1.009 in one day....it must stay 1.009, no higher no lower, hopefully hkgar or someone can chime in for the amount of time but for now, think towards safety at 72-76.

Keep everyone fed well, this is so important as it builds strenght. I have some concerns to 2 tangs in a 72, this could add stress which Ick loves, but continue to move forward.

Just don't forget when it's time to move salinity up, very very slowly at .001-.002 per day.

Good luck, keep us posted.



Last edited by Uncle99; 08/11/2018 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 08/11/2018, 03:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle99 View Post
[MENTION=16645]...did you run hypo for 72?

I
Hyposalinity - Using a refractometer, hold salinity at 11ppt to 12ppt until 4 weeks after the last spot was seen. (Best to use salinity, but if you use specific gravity, that equates to roughly 1.008 to 1.009 sp. gr. units). Raise salinity slowly and observe fish for 4 more weeks. It is difficult to control pH and water quality during treatment, however this is the least stressful treatment for the fish.

Here is everything you need to know about ick and its control



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Old 08/11/2018, 04:42 PM   #19
allendehl
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@hkgar, I posted as well in ********* and the general opinion there is that the fish has Velvet. What do you guys think? The fish is still swimming just fine and velvet is very aggresive once it gets to a fish so I'm kind of in the middle.
Will hypo work for either? Also I assume I'll have to move corals as well to a Qt with as much rock as possible?



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Old 08/11/2018, 05:37 PM   #20
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I see nothing in the second set of pics, the first set are better.
Velvet usual kills in a few hours/ days, they can look quite the same, difficult in a pic but velvet are round and Ick are more oval shaped.

Chloroquine phosphate is the treatment of choice for velvet, but copper also works if symptoms are caught early on. These also work on ich, so if in doubt treating with CP or copper will have you covered both ways.

You will need a QT for that, otherwise the copper will kill everything in your tank, including rock and sand, it would be like starting over and you cannot rid your rock,or sand from the effects of copper.

So, all the fish go to the QT for treatment with CP or Cupramine until all spots gone + 4 additional weeks of observation...when your finished medication......run carbon to remove.......DT goes on normally but without fish for 72 days.

Velvet is much more aggressive than Ick. Velvet Dots are much smaller than Ick and as above are perfectly round. Velvet generally starts in the gills and usually suffocates the fish killing in hours or a day. Velvet looks more like flour dust than Ick which looks more like sugar

Hope that helps, velvet once fully employed in the fish has a bleak prognosis, unlike Ick which gives much more time, however the goal is to save as many as possible, good luck.....have a read of the stickies........details here are great...



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Old 08/11/2018, 06:22 PM   #21
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definitely not velvet. the Kole would already be dead in my opinion. I would do the hypo in your display tank and go from there


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Old 08/12/2018, 06:50 PM   #22
allendehl
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Ok folks, tang is still doing well so I assume it is ich and not velvet. Given my conditions at home I plan in going hypo in DT for 30 days. Not the most agreed on method out there but it seems to have worked for lots of people.

I plan in removing all corals and inverts from my DT, do I need to have a special kind of light for the corals in QT during the process? I have a normal 5000K LED bulg setup...would that do it a few hours a day?

I normally calibrate my refactometer to zero using RODI. Is this enough or should I use a different calibration method?


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Old 08/12/2018, 06:56 PM   #23
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Ok, I'll answer my own calibration question. Found this excellent post by @Rover88
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...71&postcount=4


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Old 08/12/2018, 07:12 PM   #24
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Velvet dots are perfectly round, your pics show dots, not perfectly round.
Yup calibrate to RODI is fine.
Not sure about light, depends on the coral, but softy, LPS should be fine.


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Old 08/12/2018, 07:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Ok, I'll answer my own calibration question. Found this excellent post by @Rover88
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...71&postcount=4




I am in the last 8 days of this same thing.

Hardest part was catching them all. I removed every single thing from the tank, placing the rock on towels or in Rubbermaid totes. It wasnít fun. But once you have them all out just keep it empty for 72 or 76 or whatever people say. I went for 80 because why not? Iíve gone 70+ days already what is a few more.

I treated with Cupramine. Only one of my fish died after being caught and placed in the quarantine, the rest pulled through. I treated with Cupramine for 4 weeks then removed it. The rest has been monitoring time because itís not like I cannot them back until the tank has been fallow long enough.

Going forwards... quarantine every time. Itís a rough mistake to learn from and I wish I had taken the wisdom of others and not learned it for myself.


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