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Old 10/12/2017, 09:53 PM   #151
kenneth wolfe
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Old 10/12/2017, 11:01 PM   #152
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Tried to slog my way through this thread .... Finally gave up, all the bad English giving me a headache. Not entirely sure of the point (points?) Kenath Wulf is trying to make, but I would say this ..... I have played around with a number of different LED fixtures, from eBay 'black boxes' at the low end, through ReefBreeders, to Kessil and Radion at the high end. Much of the price premium comes in the way of features. The Radion Gen4 Pro is a far more sophisticated light than a black box, but does it grow corals any better? My subjective opinion is that it does, though not by as much as people might assume based on the price difference. I like the controllability and sophistication that the Radions offer, so they ARE worth it to me over a utilitarian black box; just as the vortech pumps are worth it to me over something like a jebao. That others have different opinions and make different choices invalidates nether alternative.


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Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

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Old 10/13/2017, 12:58 AM   #153
kenneth wolfe
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Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
Tried to slog my way through this thread .... Finally gave up, all the bad English giving me a headache. Not entirely sure of the point (points?) Kenath Wulf is trying to make, but I would say this ..... I have played around with a number of different LED fixtures, from eBay 'black boxes' at the low end, through ReefBreeders, to Kessil and Radion at the high end. Much of the price premium comes in the way of features. The Radion Gen4 Pro is a far more sophisticated light than a black box, but does it grow corals any better? My subjective opinion is that it does, though not by as much as people might assume based on the price difference. I like the controllability and sophistication that the Radions offer, so they ARE worth it to me over a utilitarian black box; just as the vortech pumps are worth it to me over something like a jebao. That others have different opinions and make different choices invalidates nether alternative.
Another grammar Nazi, apparently wants to rub me with direct misspelling my name, jfys. Did ya look at apex graph, if you did you would see it's as sophisticated as anything else, I could be as uniformed as you, but my grammar and spelling keeps me from it, what a *******.

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Old 10/13/2017, 10:24 AM   #154
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An entirely predicable response (with a lack of a sense of humor apparently) ..... and it's 'an *******' .....


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Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
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Old 10/13/2017, 11:03 AM   #155
kenneth wolfe
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An entirely predicable response (with a lack of a sense of humor apparently) ..... and it's 'an *******' .....
I have great sense of humor , lol, see

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Old 10/13/2017, 11:42 AM   #156
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An entirely predicable response (with a lack of a sense of humor apparently) ..... and it's 'an *******' .....
*predictable.


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Old 10/13/2017, 11:50 AM   #157
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*predictable.


(I can be a grammar Nazi too!)
.... on purpose .... trying (though perhaps failing) to be funny ..... and that's spelling (or typing) not grammer. I'm good at grammer but SUCK at typing.

Seeee......

Anyhow, the BB versus 'luxury' lighting is a good debate and I completely understand why folks might choose to NOT spend ridiculous amounts of $$ on something like the Radion. Far better to spend even more ridiculous amounts on 'rare' cornbred rainbow frags.


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Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
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Old 10/13/2017, 12:06 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
.... on purpose .... trying (though perhaps failing) to be funny ..... and that's spelling (or typing) not grammer. I'm good at grammer but SUCK at typing.

Seeee......

Anyhow, the BB versus 'luxury' lighting is a good debate and I completely understand why folks might choose to NOT spend ridiculous amounts of $$ on something like the Radion. Far better to spend even more ridiculous amounts on 'rare' cornbred rainbow frags.
Yeah, I caught the misspelling of "grammar," since you spelled it correctly in an earlier post.

...but you are correct, it's mechanics; not grammar... but in all, it's just semantics.

I'm personally a somewhat budget-minded reefer. I won't buy the $80 BB's, just because I don't have a canopy, and I like the aesthetics of the lights I ended up with, even though the price breakdown is similar to the BB's.

I also don't pay more than $15/frag for any coral, but that could be due to having quite a few friends in the hobby that just like sharing.

The $1,000 mushroom fad is madness.


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Old 10/13/2017, 12:09 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
Tried to slog my way through this thread .... Finally gave up, all the bad English giving me a headache. Not entirely sure of the point (points?) Kenath Wulf is trying to make, but I would say this ..... I have played around with a number of different LED fixtures, from eBay 'black boxes' at the low end, through ReefBreeders, to Kessil and Radion at the high end. Much of the price premium comes in the way of features. The Radion Gen4 Pro is a far more sophisticated light than a black box, but does it grow corals any better? My subjective opinion is that it does, though not by as much as people might assume based on the price difference. I like the controllability and sophistication that the Radions offer, so they ARE worth it to me over a utilitarian black box; just as the vortech pumps are worth it to me over something like a jebao. That others have different opinions and make different choices invalidates nether alternative.
Good summary for not having read some of the thread. Didn't get you're humour, but no biggie.

Kenneth, relax dude. Most don't care about the grammar/spelling and you will always get people who do not appreciate your point of view. Also (and I can't spell worth a damn either)

I think this is a good topic, particularly for those new to the hobby, so that they know there are choices and trade-offs.


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Old 10/13/2017, 12:10 PM   #160
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that could be due to having quite a few friends in the hobby that just like sharing.
Exactly right! Today's $$$$ rare frag is tomorrow's $15 frag - and I can wait.


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Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
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Old 10/13/2017, 12:17 PM   #161
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Also keep in mind that folks willing to drop $800 on a Radion often have 'bright, shiny object' syndrome; which means lots of Gen4 available for $400 when Gen5 gets announced. I have been both a victim and a beneficiary of such things.


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Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
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Old 10/13/2017, 12:22 PM   #162
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Also keep in mind that folks willing to drop $800 on a Radion often have 'bright, shiny object' syndrome; which means lots of Gen4 available for $400 when Gen5 gets announced. I have been both a victim and a beneficiary of such things.
I have fast cars and a pretty wife, I don't need fancy LED's.


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Old 10/13/2017, 12:54 PM   #163
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I have fast cars and a pretty wife, I don't need fancy LED's.


Why not have all three lol!


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Old 10/13/2017, 01:33 PM   #164
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Why not have all three lol!


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Because the LED lights I have do what I want them to do, and look the way I like!


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Old 10/13/2017, 01:35 PM   #165
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Because the LED lights I have do what I want them to do, and look the way I like!


Everyone's got their opinions! All that matters is you like what your tank looks like in the end anyway.


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Old 10/13/2017, 03:23 PM   #166
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Everyone's got their opinions! All that matters is you like what your tank looks like in the end anyway.


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Exactly, here is a friends tank with one Gen 1 Radion that he has setup for years (5+)? Hey its your choice what you want to spend money on, for me buy American when I can. Okay sometimes I buy German, Japanese, Etc.


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Old 10/13/2017, 03:26 PM   #167
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I'm a hot head, will try and be more calm..lol..

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Old 10/19/2017, 04:44 PM   #168
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BTW, I think black box leds are perfectly fine if you want a more basic fixture. The light they produce is just as good as a Radion, IMHO. .
Read all your post and found them to be of credibility and contained knowledge. TY

They helped me to make my purchase.

IO did the 3 ocean revives for a 72" 215 for cost and quality. Despite the brs vid which their main negative point is the hot spot, I went with these cheaper units because they spread the leds out addressing much of the hot spot issue and had a small heatsink. Larger quiet fans are also easy to add


I almost did 2 X 300 mars aqua but really wanted to avoid the ground level lighting with color that needs adjusting before use.

Worst case with OR I can add a larger heatsink and get longer life out of them. The cost of these high dollar units like kessel and radion is hype and marketing.

Reefbreeders was my second choice, but I'm frugal and do not need sunrise and sunset I'm never home.


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Old 10/19/2017, 04:58 PM   #169
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Also keep in mind that folks willing to drop $800 on a Radion often have 'bright, shiny object' syndrome; which means lots of Gen4 available for $400 when Gen5 gets announced. I have been both a victim and a beneficiary of such things.
Just bought 3 Gen 4 pros secondhand at a good price so I am a beneficiary esp as I sold my old lights for more than I paid for them. You can't beat a bargain esp when the magpies decide to go for the latest shining light.


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Old 10/19/2017, 05:04 PM   #170
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You somehow put a price on performance. A Ferrari is twice the cost of Z06 Corvette. The Corvette will beat the Ferrari in almost any race you throw at the two. That in your eyes means the Ferrari is overpriced.
Performance is what it is all about or should be all about IMHO.

Add Lambo too, the Z06 with a few slight mods eats those up as well. Its cheap and a great overall package, love mine. You can have a good 10 second daily driver NA that will last 200,000 miles for about 35 grand that is a track monster. Its where I am at despite never having that wicked 10cyl sound.

I see both of yours and OPs points both valid. had brs done an OR or reefbreeders against the top end, the gap is closed up on all their little picking points, yet price is still very low on these in comparison.


If you have the money the best will never leave you dissatisfied, if your on a budget and choose wisely the better black boxes are not a bad choice.


Ill pass final judgement or conclusion in 5 years after proof is in the pudding. Not ditching or selling my MH and VHO set up just yet


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Old 10/19/2017, 06:15 PM   #171
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I like my 4 Mars Aqua leds and 2 jebao pp-15ís!


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Old 10/19/2017, 09:02 PM   #172
kenneth wolfe
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Performance is what it is all about or should be all about IMHO.

Add Lambo too, the Z06 with a few slight mods eats those up as well. Its cheap and a great overall package, love mine. You can have a good 10 second daily driver NA that will last 200,000 miles for about 35 grand that is a track monster. Its where I am at despite never having that wicked 10cyl sound.

I see both of yours and OPs points both valid. had brs done an OR or reefbreeders against the top end, the gap is closed up on all their little picking points, yet price is still very low on these in comparison.


If you have the money the best will never leave you dissatisfied, if your on a budget and choose wisely the better black boxes are not a bad choice.


Ill pass final judgement or conclusion in 5 years after proof is in the pudding. Not ditching or selling my MH and VHO set up just yet
Bring it, yes you can have Best of both worlds most men don't posses the skill set to build there own anything, not much less a led light system , racecar , or change a tire , some might feel there bank account makes them exempt from hard work and expanding there skill set, and some are just lazy...

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Old 10/19/2017, 11:38 PM   #173
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This original post was about brs video slamming black box leds , my guess now is that they see a huge amount of New hobby reefers using the bb and that video was misleading and not factual, it was a direct atepmt to persuade away from the bb to push there market venue , I have hard time not understanding why y'all can't see that, like I said, I will mod a bb and put it against any radion on the market, ecotec themselves would have to step up to the plate, but I'm sure they don't want bad press over a bb betting them..just saying put up your radion if your so sure a modified bb won't kill the radion on cost per base..lets bet..

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Old 10/20/2017, 06:10 AM   #174
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Kenneth I love you like a brother being a fellow Texan but you have to quit knocking BRS and Radion. What BRS did was take the cheapest BB and compared it to the most expensive Radion and posted those results which were spot on. I ran into the same result when I bought two different brands of BB's and used them for a very short time. We all decide to spend and enjoy our money as we see fit. Your race car / money pit is a perfect example, you love it so enjoy it no matter what the cost.


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