Acro Eating Flatworms in a Bowl: Test Time! - Page 5

weatherson · 02/03/2006, 11:09 PM

Yep, currently, your safest bet is to just watch your existing corals grow (assuming you are pest free). Next would be to quarantine new corals for 3 to 6 months. Times are changing for the life of aquarists.

David Lo pan · 02/03/2006, 11:12 PM

Yes, you are totally right. I know that hobbiest are alot more meticulis(spelling ?) at keeping their reefs pest free whereas LFS' are not so. Think about how many corals a LFS goes through. Please, I am not bashing LFS' even though I just bought 2 colonies that were infested with AEFW. Some LFS' dont have a clue and are out to make a quick buck. JMO

Sparkss · 02/04/2006, 01:36 AM

completed the FWE treatment at roughly 2X. Still see a few red planaria running around, but I expect to nuke them next week with the next FWE treatment at 3X or 4X. I checked a couple of previously "infected" corals and they were pest free, although we had dipped them earlier in the week, so it is really hard to say one way or the other at this time. I did notice that our ceriths pulled into their shells and stopped moving after the FWE was added until a good while after the carbon had been running on the tank, but they are moving around fine now.

ReeferMac · 02/04/2006, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David Lo pan
Seems like the safest way is to trade among fellow reefers. JMO

I only wish!
I haven't 'purchased' an SPS coral for almost 2 years now (since the last time I went to Tropicorium)., but have traded a handful of times w/ fellow aquarists around the country. Sigh.... I honestly think that this, and the Monti-nudi's are so rampant at this point, that it's something we're all going to have to deal w/ at one point or another.

Go bigger than 4X sparkss.... At least 5-6 bottles.

- Mac

Sparkss · 02/04/2006, 11:10 AM

ReeferMac,

Wanted to clear out the red FWs first, or at least "thin the herd" a little before tossing in that many bottles... 5 - 6 bottles is 10 - 12X ... I am going to be like Joseph (Weatherson) and work my way up I think, to establish what our tank inhabitants can withstand.

Bigred · 02/04/2006, 12:52 PM

I'm going to do a 2.5 bottle treatment then the following week I'l do a 3 bottle treatment. But it might be long since the eggs are 5 days old and no hatch yet. So I might push it out a little.

Sparkss · 02/04/2006, 01:10 PM

Steve,
But the thing I worry about is that there might be more than one nest of eggs, laid at different times, so the AEFWs might hatch from different sources before the eggs that you are watching hatch.

For me, the hatch lifecycle will be more or less the overall time for the treatments to occur. If our FWE treatments are killing the AEFWs, then all that would be left in the tank would be eggs (theoretically and optimistically). So the only live AEFWs left would be the ones hatched from those eggs. Worst case scenario would be that the first batch of eggs were set to hatch the day after the FWE. We need to be sure to kill them with the next treatment before they mature enough to lay eggs of their own. All subequent treatments after the first one are to catch newly hatched AEFWs (although we all know that the nature of things tells us that some already hatched AEFWs could survive the first treatment, just like we see the planarias do from time to time). If the hatching time is proven to consistently be 2 weeks, as has previously posted, then the one variable would be how long it takes a newly hatched AEFW to mature enough to start laying eggs. If we treat 3 - 4 times (minimum 3, 4 would be better), at 5 day intervals, hopefully that would be sufficient to break the lifecycle and erradicate the AEFWs (as long as our FWE treatments are actually having an affect on them). This is taking the 2 week hatching cycle and hoping that it takes more than 5 days for an AEFW to mature to the point of being able to lay eggs. (big leap here). I have read that they can lay eggs before they are even large enough to be visible, although that sounds rather odd since the eggs are visible, which would tend to imply that the AEFWs are laying eggs that are larger them themselves at that point.. and mutiple eggs at that.

I rambled alot, I know... any thoughts on this ?

EDIT : Thoughts on the treatment regime, not on my rambling

Oh, and where is everyone getting their FWE ? at $15 per bottle these treatments are starting to add up in price ($75 - $100 per teatment at some of the recommended dosages).

Bigred · 02/04/2006, 05:18 PM

Well the corals I've found eggs on have always had 1/2" adults with no juvi's on them. Usually only 3-5 adults per coral with eggs. I have found 3 patches of eggs so far and one coral had nothing but the eggs. I'm going to be dipping and inspecting my corals today. The ones I can get out anyways.

mhurley · 02/04/2006, 07:44 PM

Just for fun....I had 6 frags in my prop tank that I had a feeling were infested (color fading and tissue loss) so I quick tried the cold freshwater 30 second dip. I've got some Levimisole too, but have not mixed it up yet to go through that.

6 frags...Most on the medium to small size side. A staghorn, 3 torts and 2 milles.

I counted at least 50 AEFW's when I was done. I shot some pics of the bowl I'll post later.

I'll be curious to see how the frags survive the cold water dip.

Bigred · 02/04/2006, 08:07 PM

A lot of people do a cold fresh water dip on acro's I'm finding out to get rid of the AEFWs. It's cheap and effective. But it's hard to do a whole tank.

mhurley · 02/04/2006, 08:11 PM

David Lo pan · 02/04/2006, 08:20 PM

Just curious, did you add any new colonies into your system?
And if you did were they aquacultured or wild?

NoSchwag · 02/04/2006, 08:28 PM

Mr Hurley did you de-clorinize the water, or was it ro/di?

clkwrk · 02/04/2006, 08:44 PM

holly smokes .Thats alot ! Is that from 1 coral?

clkwrk · 02/04/2006, 08:45 PM

sorry ? answered

Reeftoker · 02/04/2006, 08:49 PM

What is everyone using to QT there corals. I have been keeping up with this thread and I here alot about QT the corals for 3-6 mth. Just wondering whats the best way to do this.

Sparkss · 02/05/2006, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bigred
A lot of people do a cold fresh water dip on acro's I'm finding out to get rid of the AEFWs. It's cheap and effective. But it's hard to do a whole tank.

Actually everything I have read says not to use fresh water, but to do a cold salt water dip, as it is alot less stressful on the corals. Eric B stressed this a couple of times in one of his threads.. I will try to see if I can find it later. He very specifically stated to mix some fresh salt water (maybe that is where people misunderstood ?) and put it in the refrigerator. He said that using tank water had a high probablility of contamination if left too long in the fridge, but freshly made up salt water could be kept until needed, that way the dip would be ready whenever new frags arrived.

I do know that the fresh water dip (no salt) will cause the AEFWs to "show themselves" and has been used by people to readily "inspect" suspected infected corals. I even used this on one to test after the FWE treatment, but I was really just checking for AEFWs, not trying to save the frag.

Sparkss · 02/05/2006, 12:21 AM

OK, almost wore out the search button

but still couldn't find the post that I was looking for. Maybe I am just off my rocker and was thinking of something completely off base ? But I could have sworn that I read cold newly mixed salt water. The author even corrected someone who asked about a fresh water dip a couple of posts later, that was why it stuck in my mind like it did.

Either way, let us know how your corals fared the treatment(s) .. best of luck to you

Bigred · 02/05/2006, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David Lo pan
Just curious, did you add any new colonies into your system?
And if you did were they aquacultured or wild?

The corals I got were Fiji wild but they could of already been in the wholesalers system also.

Bigred · 02/05/2006, 02:03 AM

Sorry I ment cold fresh SW not fresh water.

Bigred · 02/05/2006, 11:42 AM

Well tried a few corals this morning and nothing came off. I inspected them and no eggs. I know the bastards are still there some where. For the dip I think doing TMPCC or FWE doesn't put as much stress on the corals as a cold "fresh saltwater dip".

Sparkss · 02/05/2006, 12:41 PM

Steve,

Thanks for clarifying the dip. I was more worried about others following our advice and nuking their corals with tap water dips

. I agree about TMPCC over cold fresh SW dips(which I would prefer TMPCC to dip with over FWE, just because lower dosages are needed comparatively). But we won't be picking up our TMPC until next weekend. After that all best are off

I also have the uneasy feeling that the little pests are lurking hidden somewhere in our tank, ready to "pounce" yet again onto our corals. It is a disconcerting thought, to say the least.

Bigred · 02/05/2006, 10:30 PM

I know what you mean, I keep looking for the damn things but keep coming up empty until I find one RTNing and boom there they are.

Sparkss · 02/05/2006, 11:57 PM

in retrospect I think I can attribute the last couple of unexplained RTNs in our prop tank on AEFWs. I agree... just when we think we are clean (after dips, etc), then we have an "odd" RTN and pull the frag and dip it in a galss fresh water and have AEFWs flying off of it. It is almost like one of them finds a weakened frag and rings the dinner bell for the rest to follow his (or her) lead...I also noticed that they tended to like to "set up shop" on the dark side of the corals, out of the light (and out of sight of us also).

Bigred · 02/06/2006, 08:10 AM

Looking at my tank right now with the lights off, with a LED headband light. I found some on one of my favorites. I can actually see them posted up on the coral.

02/03/2006, 11:12 PM	#102
David Lo pan Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Little China Posts: 52	turtlespd Yes, you are totally right. I know that hobbiest are alot more meticulis(spelling ?) at keeping their reefs pest free whereas LFS' are not so. Think about how many corals a LFS goes through. Please, I am not bashing LFS' even though I just bought 2 colonies that were infested with AEFW. Some LFS' dont have a clue and are out to make a quick buck. JMO

02/04/2006, 01:36 AM	#103
Sparkss Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Oakley (94561) Posts: 5,030	completed the FWE treatment at roughly 2X. Still see a few red planaria running around, but I expect to nuke them next week with the next FWE treatment at 3X or 4X. I checked a couple of previously "infected" corals and they were pest free, although we had dipped them earlier in the week, so it is really hard to say one way or the other at this time. I did notice that our ceriths pulled into their shells and stopped moving after the FWE was added until a good while after the carbon had been running on the tank, but they are moving around fine now. __________________ - Tom Current Tank Info: 380 starfire inwall ,two 150g sump/fuge. Volcano Ca RX, ato, 6' Volcano skimmer. LAIIIs w/400w AquaConnect 14K on IC EBallasts

02/04/2006, 11:10 AM	#105
Sparkss Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Oakley (94561) Posts: 5,030	ReeferMac, Wanted to clear out the red FWs first, or at least "thin the herd" a little before tossing in that many bottles... 5 - 6 bottles is 10 - 12X ... I am going to be like Joseph (Weatherson) and work my way up I think, to establish what our tank inhabitants can withstand. __________________ - Tom Current Tank Info: 380 starfire inwall ,two 150g sump/fuge. Volcano Ca RX, ato, 6' Volcano skimmer. LAIIIs w/400w AquaConnect 14K on IC EBallasts

02/04/2006, 12:52 PM	#106
Bigred The Truth Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Tan Valley, AZ Posts: 2,401	I'm going to do a 2.5 bottle treatment then the following week I'l do a 3 bottle treatment. But it might be long since the eggs are 5 days old and no hatch yet. So I might push it out a little. __________________ Water change? What is that? Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

02/04/2006, 01:10 PM	#107
Sparkss Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Oakley (94561) Posts: 5,030	Steve, But the thing I worry about is that there might be more than one nest of eggs, laid at different times, so the AEFWs might hatch from different sources before the eggs that you are watching hatch. For me, the hatch lifecycle will be more or less the overall time for the treatments to occur. If our FWE treatments are killing the AEFWs, then all that would be left in the tank would be eggs (theoretically and optimistically). So the only live AEFWs left would be the ones hatched from those eggs. Worst case scenario would be that the first batch of eggs were set to hatch the day after the FWE. We need to be sure to kill them with the next treatment before they mature enough to lay eggs of their own. All subequent treatments after the first one are to catch newly hatched AEFWs (although we all know that the nature of things tells us that some already hatched AEFWs could survive the first treatment, just like we see the planarias do from time to time). If the hatching time is proven to consistently be 2 weeks, as has previously posted, then the one variable would be how long it takes a newly hatched AEFW to mature enough to start laying eggs. If we treat 3 - 4 times (minimum 3, 4 would be better), at 5 day intervals, hopefully that would be sufficient to break the lifecycle and erradicate the AEFWs (as long as our FWE treatments are actually having an affect on them). This is taking the 2 week hatching cycle and hoping that it takes more than 5 days for an AEFW to mature to the point of being able to lay eggs. (big leap here). I have read that they can lay eggs before they are even large enough to be visible, although that sounds rather odd since the eggs are visible, which would tend to imply that the AEFWs are laying eggs that are larger them themselves at that point.. and mutiple eggs at that. I rambled alot, I know... any thoughts on this ? EDIT : Thoughts on the treatment regime, not on my rambling Oh, and where is everyone getting their FWE ? at $15 per bottle these treatments are starting to add up in price ($75 - $100 per teatment at some of the recommended dosages). __________________ - Tom Current Tank Info: 380 starfire inwall ,two 150g sump/fuge. Volcano Ca RX, ato, 6' Volcano skimmer. LAIIIs w/400w AquaConnect 14K on IC EBallasts

02/03/2006, 11:09 PM	#101
weatherson Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: California Posts: 2,022	Yep, currently, your safest bet is to just watch your existing corals grow (assuming you are pest free). Next would be to quarantine new corals for 3 to 6 months. Times are changing for the life of aquarists.

02/04/2006, 05:18 PM	#108
Bigred The Truth Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Tan Valley, AZ Posts: 2,401	Well the corals I've found eggs on have always had 1/2" adults with no juvi's on them. Usually only 3-5 adults per coral with eggs. I have found 3 patches of eggs so far and one coral had nothing but the eggs. I'm going to be dipping and inspecting my corals today. The ones I can get out anyways. __________________ Water change? What is that? Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

02/04/2006, 07:44 PM	#109
mhurley RC Staff Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Illinois'ish Posts: 38,805	Just for fun....I had 6 frags in my prop tank that I had a feeling were infested (color fading and tissue loss) so I quick tried the cold freshwater 30 second dip. I've got some Levimisole too, but have not mixed it up yet to go through that. 6 frags...Most on the medium to small size side. A staghorn, 3 torts and 2 milles. I counted at least 50 AEFW's when I was done. I shot some pics of the bowl I'll post later. I'll be curious to see how the frags survive the cold water dip. __________________ Mike Current Tank Info: 60G Cube

02/04/2006, 08:07 PM	#110
Bigred The Truth Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Tan Valley, AZ Posts: 2,401	A lot of people do a cold fresh water dip on acro's I'm finding out to get rid of the AEFWs. It's cheap and effective. But it's hard to do a whole tank. __________________ Water change? What is that? Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

02/04/2006, 08:11 PM	#111
mhurley RC Staff Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Illinois'ish Posts: 38,805	__________________ Mike Current Tank Info: 60G Cube

02/04/2006, 08:20 PM	#112
David Lo pan Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Little China Posts: 52	Bigred Just curious, did you add any new colonies into your system? And if you did were they aquacultured or wild?

02/04/2006, 08:28 PM	#113
NoSchwag Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterbury, Ct. Posts: 2,530	Mr Hurley did you de-clorinize the water, or was it ro/di? __________________ Keeping low levels of po4 without chemicals since 2005. Current Tank Info: Beckett skimmed, penductor flowed, luminarc lighted, UV sterilized, litermeter dosed, Aquacontroller controlled, SPS dominated, 120 BB tank.

02/04/2006, 08:44 PM	#114
clkwrk Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Mesa ,Az Posts: 10,257	holly smokes .Thats alot ! Is that from 1 coral? __________________ ------- Feel free to use my photos for ONLY informative sites, education or enjoyment.All I ask is to include my Reef Central User id and where you got the photo ( RC).

02/04/2006, 08:45 PM	#115
clkwrk Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Mesa ,Az Posts: 10,257	sorry ? answered __________________ ------- Feel free to use my photos for ONLY informative sites, education or enjoyment.All I ask is to include my Reef Central User id and where you got the photo ( RC).

02/04/2006, 08:49 PM	#116
Reeftoker Moved On Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Locust Grove, Ga Posts: 396	What is everyone using to QT there corals. I have been keeping up with this thread and I here alot about QT the corals for 3-6 mth. Just wondering whats the best way to do this.

02/05/2006, 12:21 AM	#118
Sparkss Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Oakley (94561) Posts: 5,030	OK, almost wore out the search button but still couldn't find the post that I was looking for. Maybe I am just off my rocker and was thinking of something completely off base ? But I could have sworn that I read cold newly mixed salt water. The author even corrected someone who asked about a fresh water dip a couple of posts later, that was why it stuck in my mind like it did. Either way, let us know how your corals fared the treatment(s) .. best of luck to you __________________ - Tom Current Tank Info: 380 starfire inwall ,two 150g sump/fuge. Volcano Ca RX, ato, 6' Volcano skimmer. LAIIIs w/400w AquaConnect 14K on IC EBallasts

02/05/2006, 02:03 AM	#120
Bigred The Truth Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Tan Valley, AZ Posts: 2,401	Sorry I ment cold fresh SW not fresh water. __________________ Water change? What is that? Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

02/05/2006, 11:42 AM	#121
Bigred The Truth Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Tan Valley, AZ Posts: 2,401	Well tried a few corals this morning and nothing came off. I inspected them and no eggs. I know the bastards are still there some where. For the dip I think doing TMPCC or FWE doesn't put as much stress on the corals as a cold "fresh saltwater dip". __________________ Water change? What is that? Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

02/05/2006, 12:41 PM	#122
Sparkss Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Oakley (94561) Posts: 5,030	Steve, Thanks for clarifying the dip. I was more worried about others following our advice and nuking their corals with tap water dips . I agree about TMPCC over cold fresh SW dips(which I would prefer TMPCC to dip with over FWE, just because lower dosages are needed comparatively). But we won't be picking up our TMPC until next weekend. After that all best are off I also have the uneasy feeling that the little pests are lurking hidden somewhere in our tank, ready to "pounce" yet again onto our corals. It is a disconcerting thought, to say the least. __________________ - Tom Current Tank Info: 380 starfire inwall ,two 150g sump/fuge. Volcano Ca RX, ato, 6' Volcano skimmer. LAIIIs w/400w AquaConnect 14K on IC EBallasts

02/05/2006, 10:30 PM	#123
Bigred The Truth Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Tan Valley, AZ Posts: 2,401	I know what you mean, I keep looking for the damn things but keep coming up empty until I find one RTNing and boom there they are. __________________ Water change? What is that? Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

02/05/2006, 11:57 PM	#124
Sparkss Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Oakley (94561) Posts: 5,030	in retrospect I think I can attribute the last couple of unexplained RTNs in our prop tank on AEFWs. I agree... just when we think we are clean (after dips, etc), then we have an "odd" RTN and pull the frag and dip it in a galss fresh water and have AEFWs flying off of it. It is almost like one of them finds a weakened frag and rings the dinner bell for the rest to follow his (or her) lead...I also noticed that they tended to like to "set up shop" on the dark side of the corals, out of the light (and out of sight of us also). __________________ - Tom Current Tank Info: 380 starfire inwall ,two 150g sump/fuge. Volcano Ca RX, ato, 6' Volcano skimmer. LAIIIs w/400w AquaConnect 14K on IC EBallasts

02/06/2006, 08:10 AM	#125
Bigred The Truth Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Tan Valley, AZ Posts: 2,401	Looking at my tank right now with the lights off, with a LED headband light. I found some on one of my favorites. I can actually see them posted up on the coral. __________________ Water change? What is that? Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef