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Unread 03/11/2017, 01:06 AM   #1
stan80
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Skimmer and macro algae an overkill??

Is running a skimmer and having chaeto overkill? Phospates always super low and nitrates undetectable


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Unread 03/11/2017, 07:22 AM   #2
mcgyvr
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No its not an overkill..
Each serves their own purpose..

But most people use macros to attempt to export more nutrients and to help lower nitrates/phosphates.. Since yours is fine already if you don't want to have macros..then don't


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Unread 03/11/2017, 08:20 AM   #3
Dan_P
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan80 View Post
Is running a skimmer and having chaeto overkill? Phospates always super low and nitrates undetectable
A skimmer can aerate the water and remove surface active organic material, which can include bacteria and micro algae. I don't recall seeing a scientific study that proves foam fractionation indirectly reduces nitrate or phosphate concentration in aquariums by removing surface active organics, but the conjecture seems reasonable.

Macro algae removes ammonia, nitrate, phosphate, carbon dioxide and other elements from the water, but the amounts depend on the increase in algae mass. No growth, little removal. A potential downside is that macro algae can exude organics, e.g., carbohydrates, especially when photosynthesis production of carbohydrates exceeds growth needs. Some these sugars harm coral but I have not see any reports on Chaeto hurting coral.

So, all aquariums might benefit from a skimmer, but the decision to add macro algae is usually driven by nitrate and/or phosphate levels.


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Unread 03/11/2017, 08:55 AM   #4
SPSOverDrive
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgyvr View Post
no its not an overkill..
Each serves their own purpose..

But most people use macros to attempt to export more nutrients and to help lower nitrates/phosphates.. Since yours is fine already if you don't want to have macros..then don't
+1


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Unread 03/11/2017, 09:28 AM   #5
Timfish
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I'll argue both are unneccessary and potentially harmfull long term. First here's what research shows about skimmers and how little they actually remove:

Protein Skimmer Performance, Pt 1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2

Protein Skimmer Performance, Pt 2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature

Skimmate Analysis
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature

And this paper by Feldman, et al, shows how skimmers radically alter the microbial populations from normal:

Bacterial Counts in Reef Aquarium Water
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature

And here's what happens to corals under hyperoxia conditions (over airated):
http://bio.biologists.org/content/ea...4/bio.20147922

And while cheato produces very small amounts of DOC compared to hair algae here's what the effect of it does:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3719129/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23303369

And here's the effects of ammonia, phosphate and nitrates compared to dissolved organic carbon (sugars):
http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps...4/m314p119.pdf

I would encourage you to get Forest Rohmwer's "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas". It ptovides an excellent introduction to the current research showing it's not nutrients per se that causes problems with corals but the roles of microbes and viruses and how different types of DOC affect them. An excellent example of how things can be overlooked or even disparaged when an aquarist stumbles onto something is Paul B's system that has been running for decades. Looking at his notes, while primitive by our current understanding, he saw microbes as playing significant roles in the health of his reef system and started reinoculating his system with fresh wild cultures several times a year.


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Unread 03/11/2017, 07:25 PM   #6
bertoni
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I agree that a protein skimmer can provide aeration, which is an excellent safety net, and also remove organics that can dye the water. They also can deal with spawning events and similar issues that dump a lot of organics into the water column. I would keep one running at all times.

Chaetomorpha can remove nutrients, too, if it is exported regularly, and it provided habitat for small animals, which can provide live food. Some tanks might have trouble supporting Chaetomorpha while running a skimmer, but I think it's still reasonable to try having both, if you'd like.


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