DIY Icecap...its not what you think

[StirCrazy]

dattack
instead of cutting down the number of bulbs you could also take a different approach and try what I am doing. reefburnaby is using one ballast to drive one bulb but what I am doing is using 2 three bulb ballast to drive 3 bulbs this way I can stager the start times and have it act as a kind of a dimmer also. I will be starting to set everything up in a week or 2 as I am waiting for my new tank to be built so I will have pictures and results of the light and power increase then.

if you want to see my original experiment with recorded data results and pictures you can check out this thread
http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/sh...=&threadid=186

Steve

[dattack]

I think I might try it but can you tell me what the wiring scheme is for your way? I just want to make sure I get it right and please show jumpers too.

[hiddendragonet]

WowEEEE!!

Victor, that is some spectacular info! I've been racking my brain trying to figure out what lighting setup to go with on my new tank. I'm doing much of it myself.

My new tank is 18" wide, how many bulbs do you think I could fit inside the canopy- 4? For that price, it's totally worth it! I really like the "dimmer" idea, too.

So let's see, if I could get 4 bulbs in - 3 6500s and one actinic (or maybe 2 & 2?), that's about as much light as 2x175 MH + 2 VHOs, do I have that correct?

Wonderful information!

[ReefDragon]

Has anyone actually tried the multiple smaller bulbs connected in series on a single ballast yet?

I'd like to try running 2x2' T8 bulbs on one 4x4' ballast, overdriving the 2's by a factor of 4.

Let's see if I understand this properly:

I would have:

yellow wires---{IIIIIIIIIII}--{IIIIIIIIIIII}----red and blue wires

Just connect the two pins from one 2' bulb directly onto two pins on the other 2' bulb?

This has the potential to rock in a major way. Although I already have 2 2 bulb magnetic ballasts, this setup would pay for itself in the first bulb change!

-Jon

[BOBG]

I have an old ballast US Fluorescent SAX-275ES 120v 60hz 1.0amps (standard Lamps) .8 (energy saving lamps) High Power factor. The balast says it runs 2 -f96T12 75w 2-F96T12 60w or 2-F72T12 55w lamps, Is there anything that I can use this ballast for over my 60" tank?

[GACDIVER]

This is a really intresting thread. My only question is that if this is such a great Idea....ie lots of light for cheap...how come no one has done this before on a full scale comercial base? Just wondering.

Sean

[afss]

Maybe no one ever thought of it :-). New ideas come up all the time, be a pretty boring place if not. :-)


Reef dragon... I can't see how, in theory, the 2 2' bulbs in series would react any different than the 1 4' bulb. I am actually planning on doing this very same thing in the future, so if you do it first let me know for sure. Things in theory don't always work the way they are supposed to :-)

Exactly how do you get a dimming effect from the bulbs when you runn them the way you are talking about stircrazy?

BTW any one that has done this or who has VHO's does your actinic continue to glow for a bit even after you turn it of?

Scott

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Sounds lilke there some more interest in this little experiment. afss, good to hear that it is working for you.

hiddendragonet,

Let see, we have a 18" of tubes (I think they are 15W). So, let's assume we are using my scheme of a 4x ballast driving 1 tube, so it works out that we are driving 2.5X above normal (i.e. 80W vs 32W). So, 4 tubes of 15W (60W) times 2.5X is about 150W. If efficiency is about 86 lumens/W, then 12900 lumens...or about the same as a 250W MH. I don't think you have enough light...so you might have to limit your self to acroporas and yellow leathers. Those light loving mushrooms and polyps would not have enough light (just joking...)

So, it is not as much as you hoped for, but I think it is plenty for practical purposes

Reefdragon,

I haven't tried lighting two bulbs in series, but there should be enough spike to light both of them -- especially when you overdrive. Given it a try.

BOBG,

Your ballast is probably one of those electromagnetc ballasts (i.e. tar ballast) that can drive 8 foot (F96) and 6 foot (F72) tubes that are 1.5" in diameter (T12). You can try to drive 5 foot tubes since the operating conditions for a 5 foot (F60) and the other two are very similar. Note that it is not recommended that your old ballast use the overdriving technique that is described here because it is possible that it is not an electronic ballast.


GACDIVER,

Why hasn't anybody come up with this ? I speculate that Icecap is doing something similar, but it is difficult to say if the two technques are the same or not.

To be honest, there are commerical ballasts that overdrive NO by about 20% or so. The problem with overdriving above 20% is that the lamps fail prematurely (i.e. less the hourly rating given by the lamp manufacturer == which is around 10000 to 30000 hours). Light bulb replacement is a large cost in operating lighting in businesses and industrial sites, so extending the lamp life is very desireable.

afss,

The lamps driven by electronic ballasts will continue to glow for a short duration because electronic ballasts have internal storage element. The element is intended to filter noise from the AC power supply and absorb the initial bump in a brown out condition (i.e. temporary power glitch). During normal operating and the ballast is just turned off, the ballast must discharge the power stored on the element...usually it is discharge through the lamps. This is probably what you are seeing.

Hope that helps.

- Victor.

[StirCrazy]

ReefDragon,
I am not positive but I don't think it would work.. it takes more to start two bulbs than one bulb so I suspect it won't even light but hey try it, as for output I think just because you have 2 bulbs in series if it starts it will take more power just to keep them going and they would be dimmer than a single bulb.

afss,
I am not so much creating a dimmer but more of a brightener.. lets say at 8 am I turn on one ballast and it drives the 36" bulb with 30 watts.. a hour later I have the second ballast come online and it over drives the bulbs to say.. 55 watts so it gets brighter.. and at night I have one go off a while before the other... same idea as a dimmer.

Steve

[Silverfish]

Hey Steve, I really like that dimming/brightening idea, I think that I will try it on my tank.

I wonder about voltage back-feeding to the ballast that is off when running only one of them, and if that is even an issue?

So many projects, so little $ !!

Bruce

[StirCrazy]

I was thinking about that the otherday Bruce and I am going to check into a choke or something to put on the lines that will only allow current to flow one way (just to be safe).

Steve

[hiddendragonet]

Sorry, Victor, I gave you the wrong impression.

I meant that the tank is 18" front to back. Dimensions are 36Lx18Wx24H. So I could use 36" bulbs, I was just talking about how many bulbs could fit in parallel.

Can you give me an example of what lighting would be equivalent to using 4 36" bulbs each 4x?

[ReefDragon]

Update on the 2 smaller bulbs in series:

I tried it, running it at 2x, 3x, and 4x. It worked each time. I was using 2' T12 bulbs, since I didn't have any 2' T8s lying around. They started instantly, and at 4x, are insanely bright. The longest consecutive time I had them running was about 4 hours -- at the end of this period, the bulbs were definately hot, but I wouldn't say they were hotter than the VHO's I felt.

I tried it today using a pair of 18" T8 bulbs. They were extremely bright, and they didn't explode or anything for the hour I ran them.

I do wonder about bulb life, however. I'll be putting a pair of 2' T8s over my seahorse tank, and we'll see what happens.

Happy DIYing,
-Jon

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Okay, 36" tubes. I think those are 24W each. So....that would be 24W * 4 * 250% * 86 lum/W = 20600 lumens. That would put you in the 400W MH or so. I still don't think you have enough light

Yupe, overdriving these lamps are fairly hot, but they are very bright. Everytime I do testing on them...I get blinded. I can't see anything for a minute or so... The lamps shouldn't explode...the lamps should burn out if anything goes wrong.

- Victor.

[Reefer33]

Victor, very cool post! Thanks for this very informing light info. I was just wondering who makes an actinic T-8 bulb? Also, so I get this straight you are just overdriving NO bulbs and not running VHO's, correct? TIA

[dattack]

Hello, I have been running a F32T8 x3 ballast (BF=1.2) on one T8 instead of running all 3 and it appears that it's just as bright as running 3 for 1 day now. BTW, the bulb does get hot but not too hot and I will see if my planted tank continues to grow well under these conditions.

[fins369]

Hi, I've been following this post for some time now and quite intrigued. However I am wondering if OVDR NO bulbs are producing the spectrum of light needed for our reef tanks? Also in Nov. issue of FAMA there is an article on using NO bulbs from Home Depot ($6.00) on an Ice Cap Ballast ($180.00 online)and getting just as much output as VHO bulbs. So my question is if you want to use 4 bulbs and use one ballast to overdrive one bulb at about $35.00 a ballast at Home Depot, ($140.00) plus the space needed for 4 ballast and heat from them, why not just use the one Ice Cap and 4 NO bulbs to get about the same results? Just wondering if I'm missing something other than the $40.00 savings?

[StirCrazy]

fins369,
A IceCap 660 will over drive 4 NO tubes to 1.5 times there original power rating as you can see people have been going from 2 to 4 X the original power on the bulbs which a IceCap won't do. for my purposes I am only going 2X the output (driving 30watt bulbs to 60watt. to do this I would spend 4x 15.99 for the 36" actinic bulbs and 2X 45.00 for the ballast (Canadian funds) here here in Canada (at least where I am a IceCap 660 is 299.00 and that doesn't include the wiring harness or endcaps. so you can see for those of use that don't mind building stuff thee is a big savings to be had.

The part about the NO bulbs on a IceCap getting as much light as VHO's is true only if you are comparing it to VHO's on a IceCap as the 660 running 4 x 110watt VHO only sends ~67watts to each bulb where if you run 4x 40watt NO you are sending ~60 watts to each bulb.

Steve

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Actinics for T8 are made by Zoomed, Hagen and Sylvania.

Yes, I am using NOs...not VHOs. They don't have T8 VHOs

As for why we are doing this....well, it is a bit cheaper. In Canada, a T8 X 4 ballast costs $30 (or $18 USD). So, 4 of those guys is cheaper than an $180 Icecap. Plus, you have the flexibility of using one, two, three and etc lamps. You aren't stuck with buying a big 4 lamp or 3 lamp version...and only use 1 or 2 lamps. This is particularly important for those who are starting but don't want to spend mega bucks on a system. Two lamp version is sufficient for most softies and LPS. I've got SPS under a three lamp version.

Having 4 ballasts is not actually a bad thing. You have maximum control over your lighting in this manner. For example, if you want to emulate sunrise/sunset...you just stagger your timers. Dimming is actually not very good for fluorescent tube life. If for some unfortunate thing happens to one of the ballast, you still have three others. If your Icecap goes...there isn't much of a safety net.

At this time, we don't know who's overdriving method is better. Icecap's ? the one described here ? It is hard to say. We will do some measurements in the future and see who's better.

- Victor.

[BOBG]

How do you determine if a ballast is electronic or magnetic? Thanks in advance.

[afss]

I just asked them at the place i bought it at (home depot) and i also had the product code from some one else, and i checked it against that.

Scott

[fins369]

Hi all,

I went to home Depot today and checked out their ballast. I found a GE magnatec electronic ballast that will drive 4 F32T8 lamps, Model #B432l120RH instant start, $30.00! I'm wondering if this is the proper ballast for to use for overdriving? Also they had available 3 different types of T8 bulbs, but I forgot to write down #s on the lamps. I really appreciate the replys to my post and I'm going to try this set up out. Thanks.

[ReefDragon]

That's the same one I used to overdrive 2 2' bulbs in series. I'm sure it will work for you. Except it cost $37 at my home depot!

Happy DIYing.

-Jon

[DanOtheManO]

Someone asked how do you tell electronic from Magnetic?
A: Simple. If it weighs about 20 pounds or more it's Magnetic. (you can also read the label)

I used to run a 36" VHO (T12, Actinic) on a balast intended for an 8 foot T12 bulb (80 W). The bulb was rated for 90W, but I'd have to have shelled out 4-5 times as much for a VHO ballast, while I had the other one lying around. (the prices have come down a little bit on VHOs in the last 3 years, but still...over priced!)

Flourescent lighting is really not that complicated, even less so with Instant start balasts. They have all these numbers and rating and stuff, but it just boils down to voltage and wattage

A flourescent light is just an electrical arc surrounded by some phosphors (coating the glass) that convert the UV emited from the arc into more desirable wavelenghts.

To get the arc started you need a high voltage (about 100 V per foot of tube) (older ones had a heater in the ends to warm up some ions so the starting voltage could be lower) after the arc is started, the ballast just limits the current flowing through the arc to the specified power level (that's all a balast does).

Lamps are constructed so there is an appropriate desity of mercury vapor compared to the size of the tube and the type of phosphors, so you can't get too crazy... for example you could try pumping a few hundred watts through a 40W tube, but it will loose some efficiency, and will probably get really hot and shatter, but it would sure be bright for a little while. The opposite is true, you can buy a VHO bulb, and run it a lower power, but I don't know why you would. I'm not going to say that anything is "safe" even following the ratings exactly, but there is room to play here, and it can be worthwhile in terms of savings on hardware, and overall efficiency, if you know what you are doing.

I am interested in Making a better reflector. "reefburnbaby" mentioned that an optimal specular reflector is shaped like an "M" can somebody post a picture of a cross section of a good design, that could be made from cheap aluminum flashing for DIYers. It seems like 3 lengthwise folds would make an M, and be really simple, but what kind of angles? the "computer designed commercial ones I've seen just have an arc or have many more folds than an "M"...

[dattack]

Maybe you are thinking of the spider reflectors.

http://www.marinedepot.com/a_lt_mh_s...fo.asp?CartId=