Have I messed up my system?

steve1981 · 06/13/2018, 04:49 AM

I have a 100g mixed reef with 3 Radions XR30 G3’s. I used to suffer from high nitrates that water changes didn’t seem to fix, but the introduction of cheato brought it from 40 to 2.

I stopped doing water changes and haven’t for 6 or 7 months now. Water was perfect. Everything thriving. All happy. I have a UV steriliser always running, however my GFO, Carbon and pellet reactor had run out/been turned off for some time so decided to spend some time cleaning it all and refreshing everything. I also noticed that my nitrates has created up to 5 so decided to turn everything back on and start dosing a little NO3PO4x along with Red Sea Reef Energy A and B. I also dosed a little of Colors ABCD but my tears kit showed it was actually lowering the metals.

Anyway, since using all this equipment to lower nitrates and phosphates (which weren’t quite 0) they’ve started to increase them and now some of my SPS are suffering!?
I’m sitting here thinking what’s the point in all these contraptions, it was better before turning all this junk back on!

Has anyone had any similar experiences? I’m suspicious of these bio pellets.

Any ideas? Thanks. Steve.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

top shelf · 06/13/2018, 05:20 AM

I have no experience with biopellets or any of the other things your adding. Have used gfo in the form of chemipure elite, did what I needed it to and removed it.

However if everything was doing good before the addition of all that stuff I would shut it all back down. A healthy thriving system is more important then what the numbers say, just make note of where they are for future reference. It's when things go down hill you want to start looking at numbers and checking to see what's off, then you can reference back and see what's changed.

mcgyvr · 06/13/2018, 08:51 AM

Without just going into too much..
I will say these few things.. (no offense meant by any of them)
-Corals LOVE stability...
-You overreacted...
-Both biopellets and nopox are basically the same thing (one a solid that dissolves and one is a liquid) there should be no reason to need both.. They can also take time to go into effect.. They also serve to lower phosphate levels too..
-Throwing everything and the kitchen sink at a tank doesn't guarantee success.. It just means you may not understand what you are doing..

-Nitrates and phoshates should NEVER be zero as both are a beneficial nutrient needed by all marine life.. If you didn't have any nitrates or phosphates everything would be dead.
-Corals LOVE stability...

WVfishguy · 06/13/2018, 12:21 PM

I can't sleep at night if I don't do AT LEAST monthly water changes. Freshwater or salt. Without water changes, I've found over the years the water can test well, and the fauna appear to be healthy, but suddenly everything crashes for no apparent reason.

I call this the "Everything was doing well until they all died" syndrome.

steve1981 · 06/13/2018, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVfishguy

I can't sleep at night if I don't do AT LEAST monthly water changes. Freshwater or salt. Without water changes, I've found over the years the water can test well, and the fauna appear to be healthy, but suddenly everything crashes for no apparent reason.

I call this the "Everything was doing well until they all died" syndrome.

I would agree if I was seeing posit be results from doing them. But I wasn’t. Nothing was improving in the slightest.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bertoni · 06/13/2018, 10:36 PM

I'd probably keep up a water change schedule, too, but I'm not sure that they'd help with this problem. There might just be a bit of nutrient buildup that's causing issues. I might take the pellets off line, and go with one form of carbon dosing. If the corals continue to suffer, I'd stop that, as well. Charting the nutrient levels for a while might be useful. I'm not clear on what kind of changes you are seeing.

oldhead · 06/14/2018, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve1981

I would agree if I was seeing posit be results from doing them. But I wasn’t. Nothing was improving in the slightest.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The positive results were a stable healthy tank. Now after 6 to 7 months you no longer have that.

steve1981 · 06/14/2018, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldhead

The positive results were a stable healthy tank. Now after 6 to 7 months you no longer have that.

I get that but my nitrates were in excess of 40 and things weren’t happy in there. Bought a couple of SPS frags which died very quickly. LPS was really unhappy, I had to do something which was why I tried cheato which worked.

I was working on the principle of if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. However even still, the levels aren’t too bad. I was mainly asking if anyone has seen similar results with things like the pellets and

r reef energy etc.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

oldhead · 06/14/2018, 07:11 AM

Sorry, I have no experience with pellets. I have found my zen point between keeping it really simple and having all the crazy contraptions. I think that when people find that point where it works for them (every tank is different), then everything runs smooth.

cedwards04 · 06/14/2018, 07:38 AM

Are you over feeding? There is something contributing to your nitrates climbing. Chaeto should be able to keep nitrates at a reasonable and stable level unless you are introducing them at a very high rate from somewhere.

bertoni · 06/14/2018, 11:04 AM

People see a very wide range of results with bio-pellets. I am not sure why.

WVfishguy · 06/14/2018, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve1981

I would agree if I was seeing posit be results from doing them. But I wasn’t. Nothing was improving in the slightest.

Please don't take offense.

You are missing my point. The purpose of water changes is not seeing a noticeable improvement, but preventing problems.

Without water changes a system can appear very healthy. But any change, i.e. introducing a new invert, power outage, stuck heater, etc., will result in losses. Water changes act as a buffer against future problems. It's insurance.

BTW - I NEVER post anything unless I have seen it myself; I only post what I have seen, never what I read.

steve1981 · 06/14/2018, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cedwards04

Are you over feeding? There is something contributing to your nitrates climbing. Chaeto should be able to keep nitrates at a reasonable and stable level unless you are introducing them at a very high rate from somewhere.

Not any more than I have before. However I have two new tangs and they have eaten a lot of algae that was on the glass in the DT. Maybe that’s got something to do with it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

josephxsxn · 06/15/2018, 03:53 PM

I tried to do a zero water change tank for a while. It took about 9 months and everything started looking bad. It first started with polyps not coming out, and then moved to almost a blight killing off massive corals. I went back to weekly water changes and everything is thriving like never before. Before the 9 month mark my tank looked good and many things grew; but nothing has grown as fast as with weekly water changes.

My concern isn't your pos or nitrates, but trace elements that may not be replenished any other way. In the end I learned that 'easy mode' is water changes ... Hard mode is trying to do it without them. I dose less, make less changes now and my tank does much better. In terms of dosing I just aim to keep the same parameters as my water change salt so there is little change as possible when I do them.

I run a sulfur denitrator (one of the best diy I have ever done) and gfo today; also dose calc, alk, iodide, and iron along with a huge ball of ceato alage in a fuge.

steve1981 · 06/15/2018, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josephxsxn

I tried to do a zero water change tank for a while. It took about 9 months and everything started looking bad. It first started with polys not coming out, and then moved to almost a blight killing off massive corals. I went back to weekly water changes and everything is thriving like never before. Before the 9 month mark my tank looked good and many things grew; but nothing has grown as fast as with weekly water changes.

My concern isn't your pos or nitrates, but trace elements that may not be replenished any other way. In the end I learned that 'easy mode' is water changes ... Hard mode is trying to do it without them. I dose less, make less changes now and my tank does much better. In terms of dosing I just aim to keep the same parameters as my water change salt so there is little change as possible when I do them.

I’ll go back to water changes then. I’ll have to do a more comprehensive trace metals test. I did one and then dosed enough that should have brought it all back up but when I tested a few days later it was all lower!! However I did do the second test at night with house lights and not natural sun light like they recommend. Will do another one tomorrow day to check those levels are right.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

steve1981 · 06/15/2018, 04:01 PM

I have things that look like this...

But then others look like this...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

josephxsxn · 06/15/2018, 04:33 PM

I hear and see you, I had some things that look epic without water changes, in fact I think they grew faster without. But I had many more things start to look bad without them after enough time went by without a WC. I would continue using your macro alage and other methods but take a monthly or weekly WC back up. Just my personal view, best of luck!!!

steve1981 · 06/15/2018, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josephxsxn

I hear and see you, I had some things that look epic without water changes, in fact I think they grew faster without. But I had many more things start to look bad without them after enough time went by without a WC. I would continue using your macro alage and other methods but take a monthly or weekly WC back up. Just my personal view, best of luck!!!

No I think I will mate. Just bought a new tub of salt so will start it back up again. Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

josephxsxn · 06/16/2018, 02:04 AM

Good on you mate, take care of them corals.

I would recommend you start slowly with your water changes even if it's the same salt you used to use. The re-introduction of elements could be a bit of a shock if you did a large water change. The other thing to keep in mind is how changing your water (ie removing particles blocking light) will increase the light your corals are getting. By starting slowly you will give your corals time to acclimate to the new rich elements your introducing and the increase in light they are receiving.

06/13/2018, 04:49 AM	#1
steve1981 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 355	Have I messed up my system? I have a 100g mixed reef with 3 Radions XR30 G3’s. I used to suffer from high nitrates that water changes didn’t seem to fix, but the introduction of cheato brought it from 40 to 2. I stopped doing water changes and haven’t for 6 or 7 months now. Water was perfect. Everything thriving. All happy. I have a UV steriliser always running, however my GFO, Carbon and pellet reactor had run out/been turned off for some time so decided to spend some time cleaning it all and refreshing everything. I also noticed that my nitrates has created up to 5 so decided to turn everything back on and start dosing a little NO3PO4x along with Red Sea Reef Energy A and B. I also dosed a little of Colors ABCD but my tears kit showed it was actually lowering the metals. Anyway, since using all this equipment to lower nitrates and phosphates (which weren’t quite 0) they’ve started to increase them and now some of my SPS are suffering!? I’m sitting here thinking what’s the point in all these contraptions, it was better before turning all this junk back on! Has anyone had any similar experiences? I’m suspicious of these bio pellets. Any ideas? Thanks. Steve. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

06/13/2018, 05:20 AM	#2
top shelf Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,022	I have no experience with biopellets or any of the other things your adding. Have used gfo in the form of chemipure elite, did what I needed it to and removed it. However if everything was doing good before the addition of all that stuff I would shut it all back down. A healthy thriving system is more important then what the numbers say, just make note of where they are for future reference. It's when things go down hill you want to start looking at numbers and checking to see what's off, then you can reference back and see what's changed. __________________ Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad. Philosophy is wondering if that means ketchup is a smoothie. Current tank info: 45g SCA Cube

06/13/2018, 08:51 AM	#3
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Without just going into too much.. I will say these few things.. (no offense meant by any of them) -Corals LOVE stability... -You overreacted... -Both biopellets and nopox are basically the same thing (one a solid that dissolves and one is a liquid) there should be no reason to need both.. They can also take time to go into effect.. They also serve to lower phosphate levels too.. -Throwing everything and the kitchen sink at a tank doesn't guarantee success.. It just means you may not understand what you are doing.. -Nitrates and phoshates should NEVER be zero as both are a beneficial nutrient needed by all marine life.. If you didn't have any nitrates or phosphates everything would be dead. -Corals LOVE stability... __________________ Who me?

06/13/2018, 10:36 PM	#6
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I'd probably keep up a water change schedule, too, but I'm not sure that they'd help with this problem. There might just be a bit of nutrient buildup that's causing issues. I might take the pellets off line, and go with one form of carbon dosing. If the corals continue to suffer, I'd stop that, as well. Charting the nutrient levels for a while might be useful. I'm not clear on what kind of changes you are seeing. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

06/14/2018, 11:04 AM	#11
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	People see a very wide range of results with bio-pellets. I am not sure why. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

06/13/2018, 12:21 PM	#4
WVfishguy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Huntington, WV Posts: 677	I can't sleep at night if I don't do AT LEAST monthly water changes. Freshwater or salt. Without water changes, I've found over the years the water can test well, and the fauna appear to be healthy, but suddenly everything crashes for no apparent reason. I call this the "Everything was doing well until they all died" syndrome.

06/14/2018, 07:11 AM	#9
oldhead Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: New Jersey Posts: 527	Sorry, I have no experience with pellets. I have found my zen point between keeping it really simple and having all the crazy contraptions. I think that when people find that point where it works for them (every tank is different), then everything runs smooth.

06/14/2018, 07:38 AM	#10
cedwards04 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 217	Are you over feeding? There is something contributing to your nitrates climbing. Chaeto should be able to keep nitrates at a reasonable and stable level unless you are introducing them at a very high rate from somewhere.

06/15/2018, 03:53 PM	#14
josephxsxn Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: DTW, Michigan Posts: 122	I tried to do a zero water change tank for a while. It took about 9 months and everything started looking bad. It first started with polyps not coming out, and then moved to almost a blight killing off massive corals. I went back to weekly water changes and everything is thriving like never before. Before the 9 month mark my tank looked good and many things grew; but nothing has grown as fast as with weekly water changes. My concern isn't your pos or nitrates, but trace elements that may not be replenished any other way. In the end I learned that 'easy mode' is water changes ... Hard mode is trying to do it without them. I dose less, make less changes now and my tank does much better. In terms of dosing I just aim to keep the same parameters as my water change salt so there is little change as possible when I do them. I run a sulfur denitrator (one of the best diy I have ever done) and gfo today; also dose calc, alk, iodide, and iron along with a huge ball of ceato alage in a fuge. Last edited by josephxsxn; 06/15/2018 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Sulfur and gfo

06/15/2018, 04:01 PM	#16
steve1981 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 355	I have things that look like this... But then others look like this... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

06/15/2018, 04:33 PM	#17
josephxsxn Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: DTW, Michigan Posts: 122	I hear and see you, I had some things that look epic without water changes, in fact I think they grew faster without. But I had many more things start to look bad without them after enough time went by without a WC. I would continue using your macro alage and other methods but take a monthly or weekly WC back up. Just my personal view, best of luck!!!

06/16/2018, 02:04 AM	#19
josephxsxn Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: DTW, Michigan Posts: 122	Good on you mate, take care of them corals. I would recommend you start slowly with your water changes even if it's the same salt you used to use. The re-introduction of elements could be a bit of a shock if you did a large water change. The other thing to keep in mind is how changing your water (ie removing particles blocking light) will increase the light your corals are getting. By starting slowly you will give your corals time to acclimate to the new rich elements your introducing and the increase in light they are receiving.