New 220 gallon build - Page 5

SkiFletch · 08/31/2007, 09:21 PM

Sorry Kurt, sounds like exactly what happened to me

I feel your pain.

chrisguy · 09/01/2007, 06:58 AM

Kurt, I was hoping we wouldn't have to see a post like that. It's always a set back when we have such losses. In my early tank days I had an ICH outbreak from the introduction of a Yellow Tang. I estimated it was a $200 loss by the time I got a handle on things. It was a painful experience to say the least.

KurtsReef · 09/01/2007, 07:21 AM

I appreciate the sentiments. Found the male Scotts dead this morning with the remaining Female Scotts not looking too good. I expect she will be dead by the time I get home from a gathering tonight.

All the other fish in the tank look great this morning, except the radiant wrasse which looks a bit lethargic compared too normal however it was very early and the lights had been out all day.

Both Mandrins are doing well in the other tank.

KurtsReef · 09/01/2007, 07:53 AM

Correction to the death toll. What I thought was an exquisite wrasse last night must have been the other female scotts....teh exquisite and radiant are my two remaining wrasses

KurtsReef · 09/03/2007, 12:43 PM

The exquisite ended up dying a few hours after I made the above correction.

Down to one wrasse, the radiant still looks good.

Hopefully the deaths have ended. I did order some "No sick fish" medicine, hopefully it will arrive soon and nurse the rest back to perfect health as well as get rid of any ICH remaining.

KurtsReef · 09/03/2007, 12:48 PM

Well, to get off the subject of dead fish in this thread I did some maintenance this morning cleaning up the skimmer and getting rid of some general garbage laying around the cellar from the build.

The thich sledge that was in the skimmer was unlike anything I ever got out of my old red sea prism. It almost had an oily muck consistency. I pulled off the head and cleaned inside the main chamber as well as it was dirty as well with film of crud.

Perhaps I should run it a bit "wetter"

I have continually been checking water parameters on the tank and everything runs very stable. I had issues with ALK/Ca as in low readings, very low in fact a week or two ago so I started to add more two part. I now add about a cup of each part per day and I still seem to stay right around an ALK reading of 2.0 and Ca reading of 320ppm neither of which are optimal. If I add more of the two part solution it seems to precipitate onto items in the tank.

I really need to get the Ca reactor up and running.

rjrobert · 09/03/2007, 01:04 PM

What about using the "powder" calcium and alkilinity of your choice to raise the levels and simply using 2 part to maintain?

redrider911 · 09/03/2007, 07:32 PM

I seen this awesome set up to day when KurtsReef donated some cheato to me. Those lights are incredible. I really like to check out the equipment and set up on these big tanks. It's just beyond what words can describe how everything is set up. The skimmer would have a hard time fitting into my display tank!!! And here I thought my 90 gal was big.

Everyone with these really incredible set ups need a huge pat on the back for all the effort, research (and $$$) dished out for this hobby.

Oh and the significant other probably earned a vacation somewhere warm this winter

fisheebill · 09/03/2007, 08:12 PM

Love the setup.
Sorry about your fish, hope the meds work.

SkiFletch · 09/03/2007, 08:46 PM

In regards to the two-part issues you're having kurt, are you using Randy Holmes-Farley's recepie? And are you pouring the two parts into the same chamber?

KurtsReef · 09/03/2007, 09:12 PM

I am using BiOnic's two part. I am pouring the Part 1 into the sump and after all the cloudiness is gone then the part II.

With todays dose I changed it up a bit and put the Alk (pt 1) into an old salt bucket and mixed some RO water with it too get it 'stirred up more' and then added the Ca about 10 minutes later.

KurtsReef · 09/03/2007, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by redrider911

Oh and the significant other probably earned a vacation somewhere warm this winter

She ordered some new bedroom furniture for my daughters yesterday, no vacation coming.

bradleyj · 09/03/2007, 09:20 PM

I've only read this page, so this question may have already been asked, Have you checked your magnesium? I know when I was struggleing with my low alk/ca, my mag was down in the 1000-1100 range. Once I got that back up to the 1400 range it was easy to maintain higher alk/ ca levels. One other thing that I couldn't beleive was that my salinity level was low. ( That's alot of bionics to be useing every day.)

Be1withthereef · 09/03/2007, 10:22 PM

I use Seachem reef advantage calcium & reef builder to balance levels when needed and use Randy's 2 part solution to maintain. The inability to keep these levels up may be linked to something else out of whack. 1 cup of Bionic per day is not too bad for a heavily stocked 220 tank. Playfair used over 100Ml/day(~1/2cup) in his stocked 120 before adding a reactor.

KurtsReef · 09/04/2007, 05:31 AM

Thanks for the input. Bradley you may have hit on part of the original issue. I was not testing for Mag levels before the probem with Ca and ALK arose and found after buying a kit my levels were low. I have since gotten them up to above 1350, before this my Ca was in the acceptable range and my ALK was very low.

The 'precipitation' problems were before getting the Mg up to standard levels, so I could perhaps give the tank a larger measured dose of the two part too get me up too levels and eventually find the right amount to maintain.

My 1 cup measurement here is an approximate as it is not a measuring cup being used. I went from the little cup that came with the two part solution too a larger plastic cup that I think is actually from my brine shrimp hatching kit which I am guessing is 1/2 a cup, will measure it today too see what the actual volume is.

If I get the Ca reactor up and running that will help out with the maintaining of levels.

rjrobert · 09/04/2007, 10:09 AM

I say you just dump the whole 2 part bottles in and see what happens

KurtsReef · 09/04/2007, 07:26 PM

OK, the 'cup' I have been using is 18 teaspoons so 36 teaspoons per day or 3/4 cup of each part per day. My estimate was on the low side.

Today (morning) the readings were ALK 2.0, Mg 1250, Ca 300ppm, and PH was only 8.2

I added my normal 'cup' which we now know is actually 3/4 cup each dose and tested again this evening. Readings were ALK 2.1/2.2, Ca 330ppm, and PH had risen to 8.4 or 8.6. I find both the ALK and PH readings a bit difficult to differentiate between the very close numbers so those readings have an error factor of about +-.2

I added a second dose after the evening readings, including a bit of Mg to get that up some but have not tested the numbers yet...and that finished off the gallons of Bionic I had so I need to 'make' the 4 gal buckets by adding RO water too them. Will do that tomorrow and dose at least the double in the morning after taking readings and re-test in the evening. I know there is a difference in readings between morning and night due to the lighting.

acdraindrps · 09/04/2007, 07:41 PM

Kurt,

Were you blindly dosing copper, or were you testing before you dosed? IME its relatively easy to OD copper.

Chris

KurtsReef · 09/04/2007, 09:31 PM

I was dosing per the instructions, which I actually dosed less than they suggested. The copper dosage was per 4 gal of water and I dosed for 40g instead of for 45g of water.

When the fish seemed too start stressing from the copper I immediately began to do water changes to remove the medicine. That night in fact I changed 10g, then the next day performed a 20, 10, 20, 20, day after that another three 10g changes.

I have not tested for the copper, do not have a copper testing kit. Would assume that by now all if not most of the copper is out. I also started to run carbon the day after putting the medicine in.

$450-500.00 lesson learned. (Lessen one, QT for two to three weeks and not 3 days. Lesson two, dont treat copper to wrasses)

fisheebill · 09/05/2007, 04:30 AM

Poly-Filters pull out copper

woodycb · 09/05/2007, 04:45 AM

I have used the No Sick Fish ich remedy before. It worked for me but i seemed like it took a while for it to actually start working. The LFS's swear by the stuff aroung here. Good luck.

KurtsReef · 09/05/2007, 10:50 AM

I have some unused polyfilter I will throw in today (into the filter thats on the tank) the "No Sick Fish" treatment is due here Friday and will start administering it too all three tanks.

Good too hear some first hand experience with the stuff Woody, thanks.

KurtsReef · 09/05/2007, 11:29 AM

Here is the shot of my bubble tip that was thought to be dead for about 6 months before being found under a rock about the size of a quarter fully expanded in April or May. It has steadily grown and for the first time ever shows signs of both color and actual bubbled tips. It may be the 'better' lighting it is now getting or even better water conditions, but its a welcome change.

The green is actually more than what appears in this shot, there are 'veins' of green spreading down into the mouth of the anemone.

KurtsReef · 09/06/2007, 08:07 AM

Lets see if I can remember this from yesterday...

I tested ALK/Ca/Mg in the morning with readings of 2.0, 300ppm, and 1350. I also tested the PH which was good but do not remember the exact reading.

I mixed the new 4 gal buckets of Bionic 2 part with RO water early in the morning and around noon put in 2 cups of each part.

Tested the ALK again around 4pm and it was 2.4 or near there.

Picked up some Kent Super Buffer KH (Will have to double check the name on it) and put about 3/4 a cup of that into some RO water mixed it and dumped it into the sump.

This morning the ALK reading was around 3.0

I plan on testing all parameters again around noon today.

I also changed the media in the phosban reactor yesterday. I added the same amount of PHOSBAN and also some carbon.

KurtsReef · 09/07/2007, 06:11 PM

A little over a month up and running and the coraline is beginning to grow on the overflows and other fittings.

The ALK/PH/Ca have been held higher the past couple days, the Ca could still go up a bit more its been holding at 360.

Clams and SPS must take up a lot more calcium than soft corals do.

a whole lot more.

08/31/2007, 09:21 PM	#101
SkiFletch Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: N Buffalo, NY Posts: 3,665	Sorry Kurt, sounds like exactly what happened to me I feel your pain. __________________ You will miss 100% of the shots you dont take. Dare to dream Mike, aka Fletch Current Tank Info: 65 gallon reef

09/01/2007, 06:58 AM	#102
chrisguy Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Grand Island, NY Posts: 2,277	Kurt, I was hoping we wouldn't have to see a post like that. It's always a set back when we have such losses. In my early tank days I had an ICH outbreak from the introduction of a Yellow Tang. I estimated it was a $200 loss by the time I got a handle on things. It was a painful experience to say the least. __________________ Chris My son said I should have been a potato bug farmer. Pickles are cucumbers soaked in EVIL!! Current Tank Info: I got nothin

09/03/2007, 07:32 PM	#108
redrider911 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: West Seneca, NY Posts: 919	I seen this awesome set up to day when KurtsReef donated some cheato to me. Those lights are incredible. I really like to check out the equipment and set up on these big tanks. It's just beyond what words can describe how everything is set up. The skimmer would have a hard time fitting into my display tank!!! And here I thought my 90 gal was big. Everyone with these really incredible set ups need a huge pat on the back for all the effort, research (and $$$) dished out for this hobby. Oh and the significant other probably earned a vacation somewhere warm this winter __________________ -Chris Current Tank Info: 28gal oceanic biocube blank canvas

09/03/2007, 08:46 PM	#110
SkiFletch Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: N Buffalo, NY Posts: 3,665	In regards to the two-part issues you're having kurt, are you using Randy Holmes-Farley's recepie? And are you pouring the two parts into the same chamber? __________________ You will miss 100% of the shots you dont take. Dare to dream Mike, aka Fletch Current Tank Info: 65 gallon reef

09/03/2007, 09:20 PM	#113
bradleyj Reefkeeping Mag Staff Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Murray, Utah Posts: 3,454	I've only read this page, so this question may have already been asked, Have you checked your magnesium? I know when I was struggleing with my low alk/ca, my mag was down in the 1000-1100 range. Once I got that back up to the 1400 range it was easy to maintain higher alk/ ca levels. One other thing that I couldn't beleive was that my salinity level was low. ( That's alot of bionics to be useing every day.) __________________ Murray, Utah 335G reef, 72" Maristar, Deltec AP702, PF601S , 2 Darts 4Vortech MP40's 18,000 Gph Feb, 2012 RC TOTM Current Tank Info: 335g Leemar

09/01/2007, 07:21 AM	#103
KurtsReef Premium Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Boston, NY Posts: 2,603	I appreciate the sentiments. Found the male Scotts dead this morning with the remaining Female Scotts not looking too good. I expect she will be dead by the time I get home from a gathering tonight. All the other fish in the tank look great this morning, except the radiant wrasse which looks a bit lethargic compared too normal however it was very early and the lights had been out all day. Both Mandrins are doing well in the other tank.

09/01/2007, 07:53 AM	#104
KurtsReef Premium Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Boston, NY Posts: 2,603	Correction to the death toll. What I thought was an exquisite wrasse last night must have been the other female scotts....teh exquisite and radiant are my two remaining wrasses

09/03/2007, 12:43 PM	#105
KurtsReef Premium Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Boston, NY Posts: 2,603	The exquisite ended up dying a few hours after I made the above correction. Down to one wrasse, the radiant still looks good. Hopefully the deaths have ended. I did order some "No sick fish" medicine, hopefully it will arrive soon and nurse the rest back to perfect health as well as get rid of any ICH remaining.

09/03/2007, 12:48 PM	#106
KurtsReef Premium Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Boston, NY Posts: 2,603	Well, to get off the subject of dead fish in this thread I did some maintenance this morning cleaning up the skimmer and getting rid of some general garbage laying around the cellar from the build. The thich sledge that was in the skimmer was unlike anything I ever got out of my old red sea prism. It almost had an oily muck consistency. I pulled off the head and cleaned inside the main chamber as well as it was dirty as well with film of crud. Perhaps I should run it a bit "wetter" I have continually been checking water parameters on the tank and everything runs very stable. I had issues with ALK/Ca as in low readings, very low in fact a week or two ago so I started to add more two part. I now add about a cup of each part per day and I still seem to stay right around an ALK reading of 2.0 and Ca reading of 320ppm neither of which are optimal. If I add more of the two part solution it seems to precipitate onto items in the tank. I really need to get the Ca reactor up and running.

09/03/2007, 01:04 PM	#107
rjrobert Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Greece, NY Posts: 873	What about using the "powder" calcium and alkilinity of your choice to raise the levels and simply using 2 part to maintain?

09/03/2007, 08:12 PM	#109
fisheebill Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Hamburg, NY Posts: 308	Love the setup. Sorry about your fish, hope the meds work.

09/03/2007, 09:12 PM	#111
KurtsReef Premium Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Boston, NY Posts: 2,603	I am using BiOnic's two part. I am pouring the Part 1 into the sump and after all the cloudiness is gone then the part II. With todays dose I changed it up a bit and put the Alk (pt 1) into an old salt bucket and mixed some RO water with it too get it 'stirred up more' and then added the Ca about 10 minutes later.

09/03/2007, 10:22 PM	#114
Be1withthereef Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 192	I use Seachem reef advantage calcium & reef builder to balance levels when needed and use Randy's 2 part solution to maintain. The inability to keep these levels up may be linked to something else out of whack. 1 cup of Bionic per day is not too bad for a heavily stocked 220 tank. Playfair used over 100Ml/day(~1/2cup) in his stocked 120 before adding a reactor. __________________ ~Joe~ Current Tank Info: 44 gal Pent - softy reef. 75gal mixed, 2-175W Hamilton 14k MH with 2-40W Actinic and 110W 50/50 VHO, ASM G3 skimmer, Berlin sump w/ mag 7 return, RDSB, Tsunami wavemaker with 2-MJ1200's, 1 Seio 1100's, Randy's 2 part solution

09/04/2007, 05:31 AM	#115
KurtsReef Premium Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Boston, NY Posts: 2,603	Thanks for the input. Bradley you may have hit on part of the original issue. I was not testing for Mag levels before the probem with Ca and ALK arose and found after buying a kit my levels were low. I have since gotten them up to above 1350, before this my Ca was in the acceptable range and my ALK was very low. The 'precipitation' problems were before getting the Mg up to standard levels, so I could perhaps give the tank a larger measured dose of the two part too get me up too levels and eventually find the right amount to maintain. My 1 cup measurement here is an approximate as it is not a measuring cup being used. I went from the little cup that came with the two part solution too a larger plastic cup that I think is actually from my brine shrimp hatching kit which I am guessing is 1/2 a cup, will measure it today too see what the actual volume is. If I get the Ca reactor up and running that will help out with the maintaining of levels.

09/04/2007, 10:09 AM	#116
rjrobert Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Greece, NY Posts: 873	I say you just dump the whole 2 part bottles in and see what happens

09/04/2007, 07:26 PM	#117
KurtsReef Premium Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Boston, NY Posts: 2,603	OK, the 'cup' I have been using is 18 teaspoons so 36 teaspoons per day or 3/4 cup of each part per day. My estimate was on the low side. Today (morning) the readings were ALK 2.0, Mg 1250, Ca 300ppm, and PH was only 8.2 I added my normal 'cup' which we now know is actually 3/4 cup each dose and tested again this evening. Readings were ALK 2.1/2.2, Ca 330ppm, and PH had risen to 8.4 or 8.6. I find both the ALK and PH readings a bit difficult to differentiate between the very close numbers so those readings have an error factor of about +-.2 I added a second dose after the evening readings, including a bit of Mg to get that up some but have not tested the numbers yet...and that finished off the gallons of Bionic I had so I need to 'make' the 4 gal buckets by adding RO water too them. Will do that tomorrow and dose at least the double in the morning after taking readings and re-test in the evening. I know there is a difference in readings between morning and night due to the lighting.

09/04/2007, 07:41 PM	#118
acdraindrps Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: buffalo, ny Posts: 2,275	Kurt, Were you blindly dosing copper, or were you testing before you dosed? IME its relatively easy to OD copper. Chris

09/04/2007, 09:31 PM	#119
KurtsReef Premium Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Boston, NY Posts: 2,603	I was dosing per the instructions, which I actually dosed less than they suggested. The copper dosage was per 4 gal of water and I dosed for 40g instead of for 45g of water. When the fish seemed too start stressing from the copper I immediately began to do water changes to remove the medicine. That night in fact I changed 10g, then the next day performed a 20, 10, 20, 20, day after that another three 10g changes. I have not tested for the copper, do not have a copper testing kit. Would assume that by now all if not most of the copper is out. I also started to run carbon the day after putting the medicine in. $450-500.00 lesson learned. (Lessen one, QT for two to three weeks and not 3 days. Lesson two, dont treat copper to wrasses)

09/05/2007, 04:30 AM	#120
fisheebill Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Hamburg, NY Posts: 308	Poly-Filters pull out copper

09/05/2007, 04:45 AM	#121
woodycb Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: N.W. Ohio Posts: 785	I have used the No Sick Fish ich remedy before. It worked for me but i seemed like it took a while for it to actually start working. The LFS's swear by the stuff aroung here. Good luck. __________________ We have enough youth, how about a fountain of SMART Current Tank Info: 75 gallon

09/05/2007, 10:50 AM	#122
KurtsReef Premium Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Boston, NY Posts: 2,603	I have some unused polyfilter I will throw in today (into the filter thats on the tank) the "No Sick Fish" treatment is due here Friday and will start administering it too all three tanks. Good too hear some first hand experience with the stuff Woody, thanks.

09/05/2007, 11:29 AM	#123
KurtsReef Premium Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Boston, NY Posts: 2,603	Here is the shot of my bubble tip that was thought to be dead for about 6 months before being found under a rock about the size of a quarter fully expanded in April or May. It has steadily grown and for the first time ever shows signs of both color and actual bubbled tips. It may be the 'better' lighting it is now getting or even better water conditions, but its a welcome change. The green is actually more than what appears in this shot, there are 'veins' of green spreading down into the mouth of the anemone.

09/06/2007, 08:07 AM	#124
KurtsReef Premium Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Boston, NY Posts: 2,603	Lets see if I can remember this from yesterday... I tested ALK/Ca/Mg in the morning with readings of 2.0, 300ppm, and 1350. I also tested the PH which was good but do not remember the exact reading. I mixed the new 4 gal buckets of Bionic 2 part with RO water early in the morning and around noon put in 2 cups of each part. Tested the ALK again around 4pm and it was 2.4 or near there. Picked up some Kent Super Buffer KH (Will have to double check the name on it) and put about 3/4 a cup of that into some RO water mixed it and dumped it into the sump. This morning the ALK reading was around 3.0 I plan on testing all parameters again around noon today. I also changed the media in the phosban reactor yesterday. I added the same amount of PHOSBAN and also some carbon.

09/07/2007, 06:11 PM	#125
KurtsReef Premium Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Boston, NY Posts: 2,603	A little over a month up and running and the coraline is beginning to grow on the overflows and other fittings. The ALK/PH/Ca have been held higher the past couple days, the Ca could still go up a bit more its been holding at 360. Clams and SPS must take up a lot more calcium than soft corals do. a whole lot more.