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Old 01/11/2017, 09:02 AM   #26
hairalgae85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TauntingBeef View Post
Sorry do hear about your wrasse
Thank you.


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Old 01/11/2017, 09:08 AM   #27
hairalgae85
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Originally Posted by albano View Post
Sorry to hear, unfortunately these things can happen thru no fault of the buyer, which is why they have a guarantee.
Everyone on the internet is an 'expert' (including myself), but you can also receive bad info in person at any LFS ... Don't give up on this site, or any other, because of the critics... there is plenty of good advice to be had, just need to proceed with caution as you figure out what works best for you.

Trust me I know there are plenty of good ones. Randy, boomer, snorvich, tusk fish, and even yourself, I've read AL t of your posts over on a different board closer to the big Apple, in Manhattan.

I will still come on here, I was annoyed because I simply asked what could this symptom mean, ie fish can't swim under surface. Rather than possibilities and solutions , I was critiqued on something that has many ways.

If that person said, not sure why, but next time, don't drip acclimate, try this, that's plausible and I would have respected that.

Instead, I was told not to buy livestock, I did it wrong, good luck I will need it. Again, if I put a clown fish in gold fish bowl, or microwaved the bag to boil the water than put fish in, condemn me. But don't come down on somebody for doing something that thousands do, I ckuding LFS, including Bob fenner, and most importantly, the instructions from said seller, the ones behind the gaurantee tell you do.

Thanks again for your support. I didn't do it wrong, I didn't do it right, it just happens


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Old 01/12/2017, 02:21 AM   #28
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Oh man, there's so much to say here..

Firstly, you said you did a FW dip for 2 hours, which I realize was a typo -- But the guy who gave you advice to read up on acclimation made that statement BEFORE you clarified it was a Typo. Having not known it was a typo, telling someone to read a little more before buying fish after a 2 hour dip is pretty good advice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackTip View Post
You should never drip acclimate mail ordered fish. The fish is extremely stressed from the capturing and the shipping process, then you put it is a fresh water for two hours. I am surprised that he is not already dead.

You just have to wait and pray for the fish to make it.

Please read more about the acclimation process, before your order any more livestock.


This is honest, truthful, and good advice. It's not his fault you had a typo.



Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter31707 View Post
On top of the ammonia after opening the bag.


You see OP? Typically when people drip acclimate they use the same water the fish was in. You didn't specify that you changed the water to match the bag, and again, after the typo saying you left the fish in FW for 2 hours everyone naturally figured you are new to the hobby.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hairalgae85 View Post
Oh no? Why do all lfs, and I mean all, drip acclimate wholesaled fish which guess what, come from quality marine (liveaquaria) Guess there wrong too. You should really not offer advice.

Do not tell me not to order anymore, I have been at this since the 90s, acclimated hundreds, just never had one with this issue.


This right here? This is you being childish, getting offended at someone trying to give you good advice, and being arrogant. Immediately you got defensive and uppity. There was no problem until you created it, right here, immediately.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hairalgae85 View Post
I was told various times to stay off this sight, from owners of wholesales, reputable LFS, as well as a avian vet who tinkers in the reef hobby. Oh, and most if not all, the "big name" frag growers who everyone pays handsomely. A couple, no names mentioned, have said to steer clear of here for its advice. Any clown can list advice.

There's so much here it's really interesting. But this is the best; "Oh, and most if not all, the "big name" frag growers who everyone pays handsomely." They don't want you to come here because we sell their frags for half of what they sell them for. You should ask these guys about people selling frags of their corals. Some of them understand that's how it goes and shrug it off. Others feel absolutely cheated. Reputable LFS often dislike clubs and forums too. It'$ a total my$tery what'$ cau$ing the$e LF$ to form the$e opinion$ of the forum$. Total my$tery.

You have gotten a lot of good advice which you've ignored by dropping names and titles. An Avian vet, truly the holy grail of reefing advice. You also somehow assumed we knew the great 'hairalgae85'. The reefer who comes asking for help only to argue with all who dare make suggestions, while getting immediately hot-headed, and blaming everyone but himself for his lashing out at people.

The people who don't like it here are the people who don't take advice. Odds are, you won't like the other big sites either. Mostly because many members are part of every big reefing site. So you'll run into the same people.


You said 'Please help', so here are the basics:
1) Don't drip acclimate shipped fish
2) Read up on how to properly acclimate mail order fish
3) If you drip acclimated a fish you got in the mail -- You did it wrong. Fish need slower acclimation than that. Fish need around 24 hours to fully adjust to a salinity change of .03

And as for 3.. I know most fish will survive anyways, but that doesn't mean it's ideal. If someone chokes you for about 7-8 seconds you'll be fine. But that doesn't make it pleasant.


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Old 01/12/2017, 08:14 AM   #29
scooter31707
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Originally Posted by hairalgae85 View Post
I concur. if its a big difference, I will wait hours for it to come up to 1.025. Water temp falling in bucket? No problem, 25 watt heater...oxygen? air stone.

I was told various times to stay off this sight, from owners of wholesales, reputable LFS, as well as a avian vet who tinkers in the reef hobby. Oh, and most if not all, the "big name" frag growers who everyone pays handsomely. A couple, no names mentioned, have said to steer clear of here for its advice. Any clown can list advice.
I guess you are the clown?? that's why you lost your fish. I would hate to be the fish in your care.


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Old 01/12/2017, 10:10 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by scooter31707 View Post
I guess you are the clown?? that's why you lost your fish. I would hate to be the fish in your care.
Yea. I'm the clown. From what I've gathered, several people are having the same issue with fairy wrasse. I've also been told the average success rate from la has dropped substantially. But it's me, yes, that's why I lost it.

There a couple LFS that have said they would not bring in certain fairy wrasse a for that reason. But yea, again, me


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Old 01/12/2017, 10:11 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by hairalgae85 View Post
Yea. I'm the clown. From what I've gathered, several people are having the same issue with fairy wrasse. I've also been told the average success rate from la has dropped substantially. But it's me, yes, that's why I lost it.

There a couple LFS that have said they would not bring in certain fairy wrasse a for that reason. But yea, again, me
Fairy wrasses are very sensitive, unfortunately you got a bad one. I'm sure you will find another one, it was one of my favorite wrasse that I kept next to the Lineatus and Flame.

This guy seems to know it all, wonder if he has ever owned a Labouti.


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Old 01/12/2017, 10:15 AM   #32
hairalgae85
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Originally Posted by Rakie View Post
Oh man, there's so much to say here..

Firstly, you said you did a FW dip for 2 hours, which I realize was a typo -- But the guy who gave you advice to read up on acclimation made that statement BEFORE you clarified it was a Typo. Having not known it was a typo, telling someone to read a little more before buying fish after a 2 hour dip is pretty good advice.






This is honest, truthful, and good advice. It's not his fault you had a typo.







You see OP? Typically when people drip acclimate they use the same water the fish was in. You didn't specify that you changed the water to match the bag, and again, after the typo saying you left the fish in FW for 2 hours everyone naturally figured you are new to the hobby.







This right here? This is you being childish, getting offended at someone trying to give you good advice, and being arrogant. Immediately you got defensive and uppity. There was no problem until you created it, right here, immediately.






There's so much here it's really interesting. But this is the best; "Oh, and most if not all, the "big name" frag growers who everyone pays handsomely." They don't want you to come here because we sell their frags for half of what they sell them for. You should ask these guys about people selling frags of their corals. Some of them understand that's how it goes and shrug it off. Others feel absolutely cheated. Reputable LFS often dislike clubs and forums too. It'$ a total my$tery what'$ cau$ing the$e LF$ to form the$e opinion$ of the forum$. Total my$tery.

You have gotten a lot of good advice which you've ignored by dropping names and titles. An Avian vet, truly the holy grail of reefing advice. You also somehow assumed we knew the great 'hairalgae85'. The reefer who comes asking for help only to argue with all who dare make suggestions, while getting immediately hot-headed, and blaming everyone but himself for his lashing out at people.

The people who don't like it here are the people who don't take advice. Odds are, you won't like the other big sites either. Mostly because many members are part of every big reefing site. So you'll run into the same people.


You said 'Please help', so here are the basics:
1) Don't drip acclimate shipped fish
2) Read up on how to properly acclimate mail order fish
3) If you drip acclimated a fish you got in the mail -- You did it wrong. Fish need slower acclimation than that. Fish need around 24 hours to fully adjust to a salinity change of .03

And as for 3.. I know most fish will survive anyways, but that doesn't mean it's ideal. If someone chokes you for about 7-8 seconds you'll be fine. But that doesn't make it pleasant.
Again, not one possibility that could have explained what happen. All cliche rhetoric that those who feel empowered use to.make themselves appear better.

Also much to address here....But I won't. Here are a few.

The frag guys, know more on hand than most do here together. Mind you, many of them grow out wild.pieces, vs, the majority of people here have been at itnless than two years.

Again vet has far more credibility in my opinion with biology and chemistry than the avg member here who sits behind a desk selling insurance someone doesn't need. Sorry, I rather have any type of doctor operate on me, vs someone who watches general hospital or house.

Lastly, the damn instructions from live aquaria state "pour contents in bucket, drip, release" they own the company, the gaurantee the fish, those should be what is used if anyone intenda in using the money back guarantee.

And lastly, I have 6 PMS, yes 6, from this thread alone, telling me to ignore the people who.insists you can't drip.

I'll leave it at that.


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Old 01/12/2017, 10:19 AM   #33
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WTH, is it someting about 2017, or this week? Everyone arguing all over the place lol.


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Old 01/12/2017, 10:30 AM   #34
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WTH, is it someting about 2017, or this week? Everyone arguing all over the place lol.
The problem is everyone is an expert and a critic.

If you don't agree with them you are wrong.

There is not only one way to do things, one works for me may not work for you.

If people weren't afraid to try different things and innovate we would all still be using undergravel filters.......

If you have problems dripping acclimating so be it, but don't criticize others for doing so.


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Old 01/12/2017, 06:03 PM   #35
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I think we all have to look past whatever issues we had with the acclimation and see what advice we can offer OP to help him not lose another fish next time. Not saying it was your fault OP but there are a vast number of very knowledgeable people on here who can help!

I don't agree with how you acclimated the fish but I don't see the problem with it, especially since you discarded the shipping water..


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Old 01/12/2017, 06:22 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by BigBlueTang View Post
I think we all have to look past whatever issues we had with the acclimation and see what advice we can offer OP to help him not lose another fish next time. Not saying it was your fault OP but there are a vast number of very knowledgeable people on here who can help!

I don't agree with how you acclimated the fish but I don't see the problem with it, especially since you discarded the shipping water..
OP was given some good advice, and he decided to fight about every suggestion.


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Old 01/13/2017, 02:30 PM   #37
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#MakeAquariumsGreatAgain


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Old 01/13/2017, 03:42 PM   #38
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Let's all take a deep breath and avoid posting things that would cause me to remove your ability to post.
I'm now subscribed to (babysitting) this thread.


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Old 01/13/2017, 07:23 PM   #39
Rakie
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Let's all take a deep breath and avoid posting things that would cause me to remove your ability to post.
I'm now subscribed to (babysitting) this thread.
Oh man, i didn't think anyone sounded heated at all.. Context is a hell of a thing in text form, but I feel where you're coming from.


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Originally Posted by hairalgae85 View Post
Again, not one possibility that could have explained what happen. All cliche rhetoric that those who feel empowered use to.make themselves appear better.
Isn't that exactly what name dropping is doing? Trying to quote people who may or may not exist in the hopes of making yourself appear correct? Nobody here is trying to fight with you, if my message came off that way I completely apologize -- I'm a very direct and to the point person, and wasting time dancing around the bush never helped anyone with anything.


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Originally Posted by hairalgae85 View Post
The frag guys, know more on hand than most do here together. Mind you, many of them grow out wild.pieces, vs, the majority of people here have been at itnless than two years.
Implying people here *don't* grow out wild pieces? I was growing out wild pieces literally the moment I started keeping in a nano with zero issues. The piece being wild, captive, or mariculture makes absolutely no difference. Furthermore, this is very off topic, were talking about fish and acclimation.


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Originally Posted by hairalgae85 View Post
Again vet has far more credibility in my opinion with biology and chemistry than the avg member here who sits behind a desk selling insurance someone doesn't need. Sorry, I rather have any type of doctor operate on me, vs someone who watches general hospital or house.
That's a false equivocation. There are many well educated reefers who happen to work in non-biological / chemical fields. And on the other hand, there are plenty of doctors, vets, even astrophysicist's who have had some monumental blunders.

The point of this forum is the free exchange of ideas and information. The hive-mind here is that everyone may have valuable knowledge that others may not. You can absolutely be reefing for many years, and meet someone with less than a years experience who teaches you a thing or two.

Again, you're downplaying all that help that was offered. Citing that we're uneducated in biology, that we don't have the experience in the hobby, and that were incapable of keeping wild corals alive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hairalgae85 View Post
Lastly, the damn instructions from live aquaria state "pour contents in bucket, drip, release" they own the company, the gaurantee the fish, those should be what is used if anyone intenda in using the money back guarantee.

And yet following that advice, you ended up here saying:


Quote:
Originally Posted by hairalgae85 View Post
Please help

We tried to help, but you would have none of it. Notice how immediately you were the one who became antagonistic towards members here who had good intentions?

Look into the Divers Den thread, this same company that gave you these instructions was packing marine bettas with cold packs during winter. One member here had 4 DOA Marine Bettas..

They say this because that's the old method. It's what people have done for a long time.. But as times change so do techniques, husbandry, understanding of the biotope, and a ton of other things.

I started this hobby when I was a kid in middle school -- Back then, the knowledge we had vs after I came back form a long break was astounding. The drip acclimation method has been around probably 20 years longer than I have... And typically, most fish are hardy enough to handle it.

Additionally, as we've said many, many times over... We assumed that you, like most people, used the same water as you didn't specify that you changed it in your initial post.

What you really did, is VERY different than what it sounded like you had done in your original post. Removing the fish and placing it into identical and clean water THEN drip acclimating, is absolutely a different story. That is why we were mentioning Ammonia, because most people mistakenly drip acclimate using the same near-poisonous water the fish has been shipped in.


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Originally Posted by hairalgae85 View Post
And lastly, I have 6 PMS, yes 6, from this thread alone, telling me to ignore the people who.insists you can't drip.

I'll leave it at that.

I just want to point out: You might have just had 6 insurance salesman tell you that what you did was perfectly fine.

knowing what you did versus what it sounded like you did makes a big difference. BIG, difference. Removing the fish into clean matching water, then drip acclimating from there is still a little rushed, but 100x more reasonable than what it sounded like you said initially. I personally like to let fish take a day off as shipping is super stressful.

Hopefully I clarified where I'm coming from. We are definitely here to help.. But I hope you understand that your initial post sounded like a fish death camp. Including a 2 hour freshwater dip, which immediately had anyone who read your thread starting here --->


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