Best Lights for Shallow Stony Reef?

Haley · 01/13/2018, 08:02 AM

I will be the first to admit it, lights are not my forte. I took a break from saltwater for a few years and that pretty much did me in, these things advance so fast!
Basically I have a Innovative Marine SR80 in which I plan to do a stony coral reef. Chalics, Favia, Montis, Acans, and Blastos are my favorite. No softies.
My problem is that the tank itself is relatively shallow, only 16 inches! I don't want to burn the poor little buggers out. The other thing is that it is 4 feet long, so I would have to do multiple fixtures which is gonna just shoot my budget.
I really love the multi-color lights that have more than just white and blue. It makes a difference to have those purples, greens, and reds.

SO! Any suggestions?

Cheapreef · 01/13/2018, 11:18 AM

That's not shallow. lol

I run a 44 X 22 X 12" deep shallow SPS dominant reef with a 36" DIY hybrid light fixture and could not be happier. I use 2 Hydra 26's and 4 ATI T5's, the fixture is currently approx 11" off the WL. The LEDs run for 12hrs on a 4 hour rump up and 4 hour ramp down with a peak of 85%. T5's Run for about 7hrs.
Gives a ton of par but corals are doing fantasic with no shadowing at all.

jda · 01/13/2018, 11:40 AM

I would put a 6 bulb T5 over it.

zooman72 · 01/13/2018, 11:46 AM

A. It would be nice to tell us your budget so that we have a framework to start from.

B. You don't directly state it, but from your next to last sentence I am guessing that you are inquiring about LED lighting - correct? Also, separate green and red diodes are not necessary if using a proper mix of cool and warm whites.

C. You do not need more than one fixture - there are single fixtures that will work well.

D. Take a look at the new 200W Maxspect Razor X or ReefBreeder Photon 32-V2 for example...

jda · 01/13/2018, 12:03 PM

If you are thinking about LED fixtures alone with stonies, I strongly suggest that you head to the other board and see some of Dana Riddle's fresher discussions on green, red, far-red and true UV light and how they are really important to most true-coral. UV and IR have been forsaken in most LED fixtures focusing on only the visible spectrum, but really are important - the UV for energy and coloration and the IR moves energy from PS2 to PS1 to feed the coral. Some of the better fixtures are adding these in already and most others will follow. T5, VHO and MH have these spectrums already.

These missing spectrum, as well as shadowing issues with some fixtures is why folks are seeing benefit of using T5s to their LEDs.

Orphek Atlantic V4 has a good blend of diodes that fill in this larger spectrum without T5s.

Cheapreef · 01/13/2018, 12:16 PM

Most LED fixtures these days use semi-LED uv lights, even my Hydra 26's have them.

jda · 01/13/2018, 01:21 PM

The only one that I know of with real UV is the Atlantik V4 which has some 380nm diodes. There are probably others. Most builders use marketing gimmicks and call 400 (right on the edge), 410 and 420nm diodes as UV even though they are just Violet... the UV that the coral can use is from 350 to 400nm. The semis are a good start and addition, but some of the critical spectrum is still missing.

Ron Reefman · 01/14/2018, 09:00 AM

Many, many people grow great looking sps corals with leds that don't have any UV, IR or even red and green leds, despite what Dana Riddle says.

If you want to go to the ultimate limit in terms of coral, jda may be correct. But if you are just doing an aquarium and growing some nice looking coral, even high end sps corals, his advise maybe a bit over the top. The comment,"how they are really important to most true-coral" is open to discussion. Define "really important" and "true-coral"?

jda, I'm not saying you or Dana Riddle are wrong, I'm just saying that IMHO you over state the case for UV and IR. That's all I'm saying and I'm not going to argue the point.

jda · 01/14/2018, 10:12 AM

True Coral are coral that leave a skeleton... hard corals. You are right, I was being a ultra-purist... wait, I saw that term in my email, but not here... it must have gotten edited.

I won't post about the rest since you don't want to argue the point, but these same comments about overstating the need for having more than just blue and white were also quite common a few years back. Tanks did fine under those lights too... until people saw the difference.

Again, like a lot of our discussions, some people might want to do better than just "OK" or "good enough" and might want better. Why do you assume that this is where people want to stop? Leaving out the point for them to decide on their own is kinda dangerous, is it not? It is hard to argue with the folks who have seen tremendous benefit from filling these spectrums with T5s. Do you not think that it is important to mention the downfalls with the upsides of any equipment, method or technique?

BTW - nobody who has a tremendous tank is not an ultra-purist and has not though of every detail. Give these folks all of the details and let them choose which ones are important to them...better now than later. However, there are ultra-purists that do not have awesome tanks nor any tanks at all.

Haley · 01/15/2018, 11:38 AM

@zooman72
1. I didn't list a price range because I am in the buisness and have access to wholesale so my pricing is very different than retail.
2. I do prefer LED for many reasons, and multi-color lights bring out not just the colors on coral but the fluorescent fairy wrasses I plan on filling my tank with

!
3. I really do hope I only need one fixture! I want it as clutter-free as possible.
4. Fantastic suggestions thank you! I will look into these!
@Literally everyone else
I didn't mean to start a debate my bad. I should be more specific. I do not want anything other than LEDS because of a couple different reasons. I also loathe anything DIY because my first reef was a 300gallon with EVERYTHING DIY and it drove me nuts in thousands of different ways over the years. I would prefer a one-stop-have-it-all LED lighting system with as many colors as possible. Lighting tech is the thing I am least knowledgeable about as my job mainly covers the living parts of this hobby.
Over the years I have learned that this hobby is very literal on the 'you get what you pay for' so I have no problem paying more for a light if its going to last longer or look better.

DesertReefT4r · 01/15/2018, 08:39 PM

If cost is not a concern then 2 Radion XR30 on the ends and 1 XR15 in the center or some T5s and just 2 XR30s will give you great coverage and gro2 any coarl you want. If you are on a budget Reef Breeders V2 is a great choice. Or you can go with the super cheap but proven Mars fixtures.

01/13/2018, 08:02 AM	#1
Haley Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: South Florida Posts: 36	Best Lights for Shallow Stony Reef? I will be the first to admit it, lights are not my forte. I took a break from saltwater for a few years and that pretty much did me in, these things advance so fast! Basically I have a Innovative Marine SR80 in which I plan to do a stony coral reef. Chalics, Favia, Montis, Acans, and Blastos are my favorite. No softies. My problem is that the tank itself is relatively shallow, only 16 inches! I don't want to burn the poor little buggers out. The other thing is that it is 4 feet long, so I would have to do multiple fixtures which is gonna just shoot my budget. I really love the multi-color lights that have more than just white and blue. It makes a difference to have those purples, greens, and reds. SO! Any suggestions?

01/13/2018, 11:46 AM	#4
zooman72 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lockport, NY Posts: 1,340	A. It would be nice to tell us your budget so that we have a framework to start from. B. You don't directly state it, but from your next to last sentence I am guessing that you are inquiring about LED lighting - correct? Also, separate green and red diodes are not necessary if using a proper mix of cool and warm whites. C. You do not need more than one fixture - there are single fixtures that will work well. D. Take a look at the new 200W Maxspect Razor X or ReefBreeder Photon 32-V2 for example... __________________ 7 reef tanks, 5 freshwater tanks, 2 terrariums, 2 dogs, 3 boys, and 1 very understanding wife! Current Tank Info: Marine: Pair of 40B's, 45W, 50g cube, ADA 45F at home...IM Nuvo 20 and 10 at office!

01/14/2018, 09:00 AM	#8
Ron Reefman Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 10,431	Many, many people grow great looking sps corals with leds that don't have any UV, IR or even red and green leds, despite what Dana Riddle says. If you want to go to the ultimate limit in terms of coral, jda may be correct. But if you are just doing an aquarium and growing some nice looking coral, even high end sps corals, his advise maybe a bit over the top. The comment,"how they are really important to most true-coral" is open to discussion. Define "really important" and "true-coral"? jda, I'm not saying you or Dana Riddle are wrong, I'm just saying that IMHO you over state the case for UV and IR. That's all I'm saying and I'm not going to argue the point. __________________ The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. (Neil deGrasse Tyson) Visit my build thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2593017

01/15/2018, 08:39 PM	#11
DesertReefT4r Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Mesa Az Posts: 771	If cost is not a concern then 2 Radion XR30 on the ends and 1 XR15 in the center or some T5s and just 2 XR30s will give you great coverage and gro2 any coarl you want. If you are on a budget Reef Breeders V2 is a great choice. Or you can go with the super cheap but proven Mars fixtures. __________________ Tank history 29g tropical ,55g cichlid tank, 20H softy reef, 29g mixed reef, 20H brackish goby & puffer tank, 55g mixed reef, 6g Nanocube softy lps reef, 40B sps reef, 75g sps reef, 75g sps reef in bu Current Tank Info: 75g sps reef build in the works.

01/13/2018, 11:18 AM	#2
Cheapreef Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,076	That's not shallow. lol I run a 44 X 22 X 12" deep shallow SPS dominant reef with a 36" DIY hybrid light fixture and could not be happier. I use 2 Hydra 26's and 4 ATI T5's, the fixture is currently approx 11" off the WL. The LEDs run for 12hrs on a 4 hour rump up and 4 hour ramp down with a peak of 85%. T5's Run for about 7hrs. Gives a ton of par but corals are doing fantasic with no shadowing at all.

01/13/2018, 11:40 AM	#3
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	I would put a 6 bulb T5 over it.

01/13/2018, 12:03 PM	#5
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	If you are thinking about LED fixtures alone with stonies, I strongly suggest that you head to the other board and see some of Dana Riddle's fresher discussions on green, red, far-red and true UV light and how they are really important to most true-coral. UV and IR have been forsaken in most LED fixtures focusing on only the visible spectrum, but really are important - the UV for energy and coloration and the IR moves energy from PS2 to PS1 to feed the coral. Some of the better fixtures are adding these in already and most others will follow. T5, VHO and MH have these spectrums already. These missing spectrum, as well as shadowing issues with some fixtures is why folks are seeing benefit of using T5s to their LEDs. Orphek Atlantic V4 has a good blend of diodes that fill in this larger spectrum without T5s.

01/13/2018, 12:16 PM	#6
Cheapreef Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,076	Most LED fixtures these days use semi-LED uv lights, even my Hydra 26's have them.

01/13/2018, 01:21 PM	#7
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	The only one that I know of with real UV is the Atlantik V4 which has some 380nm diodes. There are probably others. Most builders use marketing gimmicks and call 400 (right on the edge), 410 and 420nm diodes as UV even though they are just Violet... the UV that the coral can use is from 350 to 400nm. The semis are a good start and addition, but some of the critical spectrum is still missing.

01/14/2018, 10:12 AM	#9
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	True Coral are coral that leave a skeleton... hard corals. You are right, I was being a ultra-purist... wait, I saw that term in my email, but not here... it must have gotten edited. I won't post about the rest since you don't want to argue the point, but these same comments about overstating the need for having more than just blue and white were also quite common a few years back. Tanks did fine under those lights too... until people saw the difference. Again, like a lot of our discussions, some people might want to do better than just "OK" or "good enough" and might want better. Why do you assume that this is where people want to stop? Leaving out the point for them to decide on their own is kinda dangerous, is it not? It is hard to argue with the folks who have seen tremendous benefit from filling these spectrums with T5s. Do you not think that it is important to mention the downfalls with the upsides of any equipment, method or technique? BTW - nobody who has a tremendous tank is not an ultra-purist and has not though of every detail. Give these folks all of the details and let them choose which ones are important to them...better now than later. However, there are ultra-purists that do not have awesome tanks nor any tanks at all.

01/15/2018, 11:38 AM	#10
Haley Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: South Florida Posts: 36	@zooman72 1. I didn't list a price range because I am in the buisness and have access to wholesale so my pricing is very different than retail. 2. I do prefer LED for many reasons, and multi-color lights bring out not just the colors on coral but the fluorescent fairy wrasses I plan on filling my tank with ! 3. I really do hope I only need one fixture! I want it as clutter-free as possible. 4. Fantastic suggestions thank you! I will look into these! @Literally everyone else I didn't mean to start a debate my bad. I should be more specific. I do not want anything other than LEDS because of a couple different reasons. I also loathe anything DIY because my first reef was a 300gallon with EVERYTHING DIY and it drove me nuts in thousands of different ways over the years. I would prefer a one-stop-have-it-all LED lighting system with as many colors as possible. Lighting tech is the thing I am least knowledgeable about as my job mainly covers the living parts of this hobby. Over the years I have learned that this hobby is very literal on the 'you get what you pay for' so I have no problem paying more for a light if its going to last longer or look better.