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Old 03/22/2008, 11:17 AM   #126
MeuserReef
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Quote:
Originally posted by Konadog
I would prime it, that will insure a clean surface for the liner to stick to. The coating needs a clean and oil free surface to stick to properly. I did it under the advice of the Line-x shop. As for "clipping" your cabinet to the stand, look into quick disconnect clips that are used on race car bodies. They have some that are push button release that will work great (my plan anyways).
Great idea. I will most certainly look into these. You dont have a link by chance do you?

Quote:
Originally posted by avp
MeuserReef-

Are you still going to use the steel triangles at the corners? If so, you could mount the panels to those with magnets for a recessed panel look.

-avp
avp-

Thats not a bad idea... using magnets. In all reality, the cabinet will not need to be held that tight to the stand. If I build everything correctly, the cabinet should just stay in place under its own weight. The magnets could provide a way to keep it snug so that the cabinet doesnt "walk" away over time.

Im actually thinking of using some 2" wide flat 1/8"thick steel strips to accomplish the sheer bracing. I can cut them to length and should, once welded in place, provide the same suppport that a triangle would, only with less material (this stand is already going to weigh alot...)


Thanks for the suggestions fellas!


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Old 03/22/2008, 11:44 AM   #127
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The fasteners that were mentioned prior to the magnet idea are called Dzus fasteners or "quarter turn" fasteners. You can get a look at one variety here. http://www.southco.com/product/class...cid=7438&ctid=

You can get them in many different head and receptacle styles. If you have a local speed shop, Moroso makes some as well. I'd suggest you figgure out the cabinet attachment method before you start welding in case you need to add brackets etc. for whatever mechanism you decide upon.

The only downer with magnets is that you need to orient the poles properly. If you go the magnet route, make sure you bond all of your magnets to the frame, then one-by-one, test and then bond each magnet to the cabinet to ensure that you have the poles orriented properly. Ideally you'd want magnets with enough pull to not only hold your parts, but hold them when the magnets themselves are coated in epoxy or resin so they don't rust.

As an asside, this thread has started me down a painful path of designing a new stand for my existing tank (or a different tank of the same dimension) as I want to widen the footprint for my 60g cube stand and incorporate a 10" mosaic ledge/bar around the 3 viewable sides. They layout for the basic stand is cake. Designing the trim/ledge/bar to conceal the framework, be removeable etc. is far mor challenging. Add to that the learning curve for Sketch Up and I won't be cutting any tube for a while

Awesome thread.
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Old 03/22/2008, 12:37 PM   #128
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i am enjoying this thread, as i have made a few steel aquarium stands. i would definetly not even consider the Herculiner. i used it for an automotive job and it was junk. i do see why people would line-x their frame as it has a cool textured look, but IMO White powdercoat is the most uniform and durable. the way they spray line-x can cause uneven spots because of the thickness of the material, whereas powdercoat is uniform.


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Old 03/22/2008, 01:54 PM   #129
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I am using threaded inserts placed into the back side of the wood. A bolt threads through the metal tabs placed on my stand and threads into the insert into the wood. Seems to work great so far, not very removable though.

Mike


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Old 03/22/2008, 06:28 PM   #130
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I hear you madmike as you have to work your way inside to start the bolts.

I like the magnet idea. I'll be considering that seriously.

I would prefer powder coating as I have never seen it chipped and spec it for industrial stuff regularly. The heated polymerization has always seemed tough enough for me. The down side for my stand is that my stand has screw jacks in the legs and the legs are already painted which is a BIG problem with further powder coating. They would need to be sand blasted first. Sand blasting would do the lead screws and gears little good I'm sure. So bed liner may be the best bet for me too.

MeuserReef; I have an automatic welding hood too and truly, truly despise it!! Mostly because of its design flaws. Cost a fortune too. Sometimes it fails to darken. Often it is too dark. It won't stay up correctly but the most annoying thing is that I use it infrequently and so I get everything set up and ready to go and pffft! The two expensive, totally obscure, batteries are dead. ^(^^%$#^%$#@&%$&(!!!

I'm in the process of hacking it so I can run it with two AA batteries and switch it TOTALLY off when it's not in use.


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Old 03/23/2008, 07:54 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally posted by flat broke
The fasteners that were mentioned prior to the magnet idea are called Dzus fasteners or "quarter turn" fasteners. You can get a look at one variety here. http://www.southco.com/product/class...cid=7438&ctid=

You can get them in many different head and receptacle styles. If you have a local speed shop, Moroso makes some as well. I'd suggest you figgure out the cabinet attachment method before you start welding in case you need to add brackets etc. for whatever mechanism you decide upon.

The only downer with magnets is that you need to orient the poles properly. If you go the magnet route, make sure you bond all of your magnets to the frame, then one-by-one, test and then bond each magnet to the cabinet to ensure that you have the poles orriented properly. Ideally you'd want magnets with enough pull to not only hold your parts, but hold them when the magnets themselves are coated in epoxy or resin so they don't rust.

As an asside, this thread has started me down a painful path of designing a new stand for my existing tank (or a different tank of the same dimension) as I want to widen the footprint for my 60g cube stand and incorporate a 10" mosaic ledge/bar around the 3 viewable sides. They layout for the basic stand is cake. Designing the trim/ledge/bar to conceal the framework, be removeable etc. is far mor challenging. Add to that the learning curve for Sketch Up and I won't be cutting any tube for a while

Awesome thread.
Chris
Thanks for your input Chris. Yet another option to consider for the cabinet mounts. I looked at the link you provided and it seems that all of the quarter-turn fasteners require a hole through the "panel"? Im hoping to not have any holes in the outer cabinet material. Im sure they offer something that could allow me to mount the receptacle onto the back of the wooden cabinet and have the "head" located on the inside... I guess I just need to spend some quality time on their website

As far as SketchUp... It was a nightmare to me for a few weeks and everything finally clicked one day and its been awesome since. Start with simple structures to get you started. Create your objects in 2D (using the Rectangle, Circle, or LIne tools) and then make them into 3D objects by using the Pull tool). You can always make a line, circle, etc the exact length you want by just typing in the desired measurement into the little white box in the bottom right hand corner of the screen as you are in the process of making the object.) Clear as mud, right?

Quote:
Originally posted by rlabriola
i am enjoying this thread, as i have made a few steel aquarium stands. i would definetly not even consider the Herculiner. i used it for an automotive job and it was junk. i do see why people would line-x their frame as it has a cool textured look, but IMO White powdercoat is the most uniform and durable. the way they spray line-x can cause uneven spots because of the thickness of the material, whereas powdercoat is uniform.
Hmmm.... this is not good news . What did you find about the product to consider it "junk"? I was hoping that this would be a reasonable option to the Line-X or Powdercoating as it could have saved me a few bucks (that I could spend elesewhere on this project ) I still need to get pricing on these two options so as to be able to really see which is the most cost effective. I always try to shop for "value" rather than just "price".

What are your opinions as to how the Hurculiner sealed to the surface of your automotive job?

I am glad to hear you are enjoying this thread. I sure am

Quote:
Originally posted by madmike
I am using threaded inserts placed into the back side of the wood. A bolt threads through the metal tabs placed on my stand and threads into the insert into the wood. Seems to work great so far, not very removable though.

Mike
Mike, I was thinking of this route but am considering other options that would allow me to remove the cabinet quickly and easily. The concern that sparked the idea to go with a steel stand rather than a wooden one was so that, in the event of a considerable spill that allowed water to get under the stand (and onto our new hardwood floors...), I could have a removable cabinet that would allow me to get to any spille water. I could have accomplished this with wood, but the structure would have been much buliker and would have taken up valuable space in the stand compartment (where 99% of my equip. has to go)

Thanks for posting.
Quote:
Originally posted by kcress
MeuserReef; I have an automatic welding hood too and truly, truly despise it!! Mostly because of its design flaws. Cost a fortune too. Sometimes it fails to darken. Often it is too dark. It won't stay up correctly but the most annoying thing is that I use it infrequently and so I get everything set up and ready to go and pffft! The two expensive, totally obscure, batteries are dead. ^(^^%$#^%$#@&%$&(!!!

I'm in the process of hacking it so I can run it with two AA batteries and switch it TOTALLY off when it's not in use.
kcress, that sucks to hear about your helmet!? I picked up one of the Miller brand solar-recharge types and it worked great. Its brand new so Im sure things could change over time... but so far, so good. Good luck with the hacking!

Happy Easter everyone!


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Old 03/23/2008, 08:03 AM   #132
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And just so that I can better explain my original idea for mounting... I give to you (drum roll) More SketchUp! drawings!!!

I was thinking of making the fasteners so that they allowed the wood cabinet to "grab" and hole the steel stand along the upright sections. (I would obviously have more than just the one pictured, but Im a bit lazy on Sunday mornings before church ). The fastener would be made from wood and would consist of a latch arm that would hinge and close down onto a 1" wooden dowell. Again, this idea/method is most definetly subject to change (especially with all of the good info coming out in this thread)

View from behind the stand:


Up close view of wooden latch:



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Old 03/23/2008, 10:10 AM   #133
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MeuserReef, interesting way to mount the cabinet to the stand, I like it. As far as the Herculiner, I think it is junk for a truck bed, for a stand coating I don't see how it wouldn't preform the way you want.


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Old 03/23/2008, 10:11 AM   #134
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That wooden cleat is a great idea. The only downside would be choosing a wood that was somewhat resilient for the latch half as you'd need it to bow a little to tension the cabinet tight against the frame. If you go bed liner, the stuff is pretty coarse so it wouldn't be a smooth gliding fit pulling the latch accross the surface. But it's not like you're going to have the cabinet off the stand every week.

Honestly, I like your idea better than the Dzus fasteners mounted from behind because the latch is big and will be easy to locate when re-installing the cabinet to the stand. I think the only modification I would make to your design is to make the latch and cleat out of PVC block material. You can still machine it/cut it on a table saw or with a router to create the rabbet for the stand to fit in etc. If you wanted to get really trick, making templates for a small trim router, you could carve the whole cleat block, latch-mounting-block, and catch pin out of one piece, though it'd just be easier to scale the pin and stud out of readily available O.D. pvc rod. Make sure to add these latches to the upper half of the cabinet too to keep everything uniform.

As for sketchup, I've got the basic draw it in 2d, pull/push to make 3d. Where I'm having problems is orrienting multiple components together to make structures. As an example, the two projects I'm tinkering with are making a new volute cover for an Eheim 1250, and the steel stand plans for my tank.

The volute is tricky because for each change in I.D. or O.D. for a section of the part, I basically have to make a new component so that I can edit that segment separately. Then stacking all the components together creates a series of segments making it harder to have total dimensions pop up readily with the dimension tool. Since the Sketch Up plans are to be used as a guide for doing some milling on a handle machine I need to break the part into tool paths or operations. So it's a combination of learning Sketch Up and thinking of the part being cut from a solid piece in multiple steps as opposed to just visualizing the complete piece. It's a nice little program, and I can easily get engrossed in it tweaking things and finding different ways to draw a part or component thereof cleaner.

Chris


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Old 03/23/2008, 12:54 PM   #135
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Hack complete! I had to use 4 AAs. I did the math. The silly thing uses 20microA while off. This is what drains the coin cells. It would take 11.2 years to drain the AAs. Of course they would rot in less time than that but the main point is I have them laying around, bought in bulk.


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Old 03/23/2008, 02:58 PM   #136
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This thread has been nominated for April's Thread of The Month.


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Old 03/23/2008, 03:24 PM   #137
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all diy

http://www.pticica.com/slika.aspx?ko...slikaid=311494

http://www.pticica.com/slika.aspx?ko...slikaid=315839

it uses magnets to hold wood


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Old 03/23/2008, 08:25 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally posted by Konadog
This thread has been nominated for April's Thread of The Month.
Awww shucks. Thanks Konadog!


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Old 03/23/2008, 08:52 PM   #139
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this is a GREAT thread was reading a few weeks ago and lost it but found it again.


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Old 03/24/2008, 01:40 AM   #140
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I really don't think there is any comparison between line-x and herculiner...as for my automotive job, i tested the herculiner, and quickly returned it. it is like comparing real chrome to spraypaint chrome.


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Old 03/24/2008, 08:38 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally posted by rlabriola
I really don't think there is any comparison between line-x and herculiner...as for my automotive job, i tested the herculiner, and quickly returned it. it is like comparing real chrome to spraypaint chrome.
rlabriola... I appreciate your feedback. For my application (protective coating & sealer), how would you rate the Hurculiner compared to say, Rustoleum spray paint? Im really not too worried if the finish isnt perfect because in the end, the stand will be concealed by the cabinet. Corrosion resistance (long term) is my main objective. Multiple coats is also an option.

Just to complete my due diligance, I called around to find out how much the local machine shops charge for a powdercoating job. I took the advice posted earlier in this thread to simply ask for a price to powdercoat a motorcycle frame in order to get a "ball park" figure. So far the number is $250 for a bike frame, so Im guessing my stand would run about $300. Unacceptable. I have other (more important) areas of my upgrade project that could/would benefit from that money (ie. Flow, Halide upgrades, etc)

The Line-X dealer is in Austin, TX so I would have to figure in gas, etc... (its a little over an hour away from where I live). So far, even with the negative feedback, the $89 Hurculiner is still winning


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Old 03/24/2008, 09:58 AM   #142
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i have few pics to share.






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Old 03/24/2008, 10:45 AM   #143
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i have few pics to share.
Bart, very nice stand. Thanks for joining this thread. What did you coat your steel with? It looks like truck bed liner to me?

Any pics of this tank completely setup or are you still building it?

Very nice.


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Old 03/24/2008, 11:27 AM   #144
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MeuserReef - thanks, the entire stand was coated w/Line-X

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1067858




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Old 03/24/2008, 01:25 PM   #145
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MeuserReef - thanks, the entire stand was coated w/Line-X
I'm looking forward to reading through your build later today but I have a question now (and I hope you dont mind sharing) but..... How much did the Line-X cost you?


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Old 03/24/2008, 01:44 PM   #146
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Nice, morino.


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Old 03/24/2008, 01:50 PM   #147
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yeah wife, kids, and some popcorns can go through my threads . my friend own line-x store so cost for materials was $150, but he told me about $350-$500 depending how big or small the steel stand. so much materials is wasted when spraying the stand as the steel isn't wide like truck beds.


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Old 03/24/2008, 02:29 PM   #148
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How did I miss this post? I apparently breezed right on by! My apologies morino. I took a few miutes to browse around your album there and I can say that you do some good work my friend. I too try to take the "All-DIY" approach on my reef addiction, um.. , I mean hobby


Quote:
Originally posted by cbui2
yeah wife, kids, and some popcorns can go through my threads . my friend own line-x store so cost for materials was $150, but he told me about $350-$500 depending how big or small the steel stand. so much materials is wasted when spraying the stand as the steel isn't wide like truck beds.
Holy heart failure, Batman!

(horsetrack announcer voice:) "And with 1 lap to go, the Hurculiner takes the lead..."




ps... and whats up with everyone BUT ME having a friend who does Line-X??


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Old 03/24/2008, 03:17 PM   #149
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thanks the thread will take you off track. its easy to make friends, help them out one day when really needed


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Old 03/24/2008, 03:24 PM   #150
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Bart, I really like your stand. I'm thinking of a similar design where the bottom shelf extends out beyond the upper shelf. In my case it will be so that the sump's bubble tower can sit directly beneath the external overflow box. Why is yours like that, if I may ask? Sorry, I haven't been following your thread, but I just clicked your little red house and I'm now subscribed. Looks like I have a lot of reading to do .


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