help with infection

[saltymichigan82]

Hi everyone
I bought a clown pair over a month ago
I placed them in QT for about 10d and empirically treated with rid ich +
no issues, healthy appearing

about 2-3 weeks in my DT I noticed the female with some white colored substance on its coat. I thought maybe they had ich, but after about a week it only worsened and the fish seemed fine.

I transferred them both to the QT again worried about brookynella
so I treated for another 10 d with general cure and metroplex after with
no change.

I then thought it could be fungal so treated with kanaplex while continuing metroplex only.

Its been about 2.5 weeks with no change.
not really getting worse, but certainly no better.
I took him out of the tank and his slime coat was present and his scales on one white bar side appears alittle red. He otherwise again looks good and started eating again after the rid ich was through.

what do you think this could be?
Ive practically treated for everything. The smaller male has been doing well since the beginning.

pics/video included

thanks for the help!

[saltymichigan82]

sorry ill post this in the infection forum

[Krush]

Any chance you can get a better picture? It's tough to see the white spot you're describing in these.

10 days is not long enough for QT. I would do 4 weeks minimum before transferring to DT, even if no visible signs of parasite or disease are showing. I'm running Chloroquine Phosphate (CP) in my QT at all times - if you can get some CP it's easier on the fish than copper and treats a wider range of ailments (brook, velvet, ich, uronema). I called 4 or 5 local vets asking for a prescription until one finally agreed to write me an rx for a few bucks, then just pick it up at a local pharmacy.

I'm not an expert, but from my experience uronema tends to look like a lesion on the body with red sores and raised scales around it. Maybe that is what you are dealing with. With that said, I think Metro does treat uronema though.

Last suggestion - you might want to post this (or ask a Mod to move it for you) in the Fish Disease forum.

[saltymichigan82]

Originally Posted by Krush

Any chance you can get a better picture? It's tough to see the white spot you're describing in these.

10 days is not long enough for QT. I would do 4 weeks minimum before transferring to DT, even if no visible signs of parasite or disease are showing. I'm running Chloroquine Phosphate (CP) in my QT at all times - if you can get some CP it's easier on the fish than copper and treats a wider range of ailments (brook, velvet, ich, uronema). I called 4 or 5 local vets asking for a prescription until one finally agreed to write me an rx for a few bucks, then just pick it up at a local pharmacy.

I'm not an expert, but from my experience uronema tends to look like a lesion on the body with red sores and raised scales around it. Maybe that is what you are dealing with. With that said, I think Metro does treat uronema though.

Last suggestion - you might want to post this (or ask a Mod to move it for you) in the Fish Disease forum.

Thanks
I don't have a better picture unfortunately. It is difficult to capture on camera and is a relatively small spot. I'll look into uronema. I also posted in fish diseases

[ThRoewer]

Originally Posted by Krush

... CP it's easier on the fish than copper and treats a wider range of ailments (brook, velvet, ich, uronema). ...

CP does not treat Brooklynella!
And while there are some reports that it treats Uronema (at double the standard dose!), I would not count on that and rather go with formalin.
CP kills algae and is due to that the most effective treatment against Amyloodinium (which as a dinoflagellate is technically an algae).
The effectiveness of CP against Cryptocaryon varies and I would usually use something more effective. My Cryptocaryon treatment of choice is hyposalinity which has the added benefit that it also kills a wide range of marine flukes.

It also should be noted that not all fish can tolerate CP. It is lethal to Elasmobranchii (Sharks and Rays), Syngnathidae (seahorses, pipefish, and their relatives), and also to many (if not all) wrasses. There are a few other fish that don't handle it well, so I would certainly do some research before treating with it.

[ThRoewer]

My guess - based on symptoms and appearance - would be that it is a bacterial infection.
I would try a broadband antibiotic. I found Septra (prescription-free available as Fish Sulpha Forte from Thomas Labs) to be highly effective for treating clownfish.

[Small Heavens]

ThRoewer knows a lot about these diseases and is pretty good at narrowing down what it can be so bacterial infection sounds reasonable. Melafix actually does work very fast on bacterial stuff as long as it is nothing serious I would start with that. This sounds rather serious compared to what I have seen though.
When treating with antibiotics, please remember to not "flush" dead pets - rather bag them up in a plastic bag and throw them in the trash to avoid spread of resistant bacteria directly into water elsewhere and instead have it burned at the trash facility.

[Krush]

Originally Posted by ThRoewer

CP does not treat Brooklynella!
And while there are some reports that it treats Uronema (at double the standard dose!), I would not count on that and rather go with formalin.
CP kills algae and is due to that the most effective treatment against Amyloodinium (which as a dinoflagellate is technically an algae).
The effectiveness of CP against Cryptocaryon varies and I would usually use something more effective. My Cryptocaryon treatment of choice is hyposalinity which has the added benefit that it also kills a wide range of marine flukes.

It also should be noted that not all fish can tolerate CP. It is lethal to Elasmobranchii (Sharks and Rays), Syngnathidae (seahorses, pipefish, and their relatives), and also to many (if not all) wrasses. There are a few other fish that don't handle it well, so I would certainly do some research before treating with it.

ThRoewer - I thought CP does treat brook? Humblefish has a few threads on different forums stating that it does - if it isn't against the rules I can post links. I've also seen it on RC from different folks saying that it works.

Actually here is a link from a website that sells CP sometimes, they state that it treats brook and uronema as well as velvet and ich -

https://aquariumstoredepot.com/produ...uine-phosphate

Not trying to contradict you or anything, as i'm 100% certain that you have more experience with this than I do. I just want to know what is right and what is not, as there is a lot of info out there stating that CP is good for brook and uronema, and if that's not the case then it really isn't much better than copper aside from being a bit more gentle on the fish.

Standard dose should be 40mg/gallon, but even 80mg/gallon has been shown to be safe for most fish by other reefers. In fact Humble states that he runs CP at 40mg/gal prophylactic and then ups the dosage to 60mg/gal if the fish have active signs of infection.

I have heard the same about sharks, pipefish, wrasses, and puffers re: CP - they do not tolerate it.

[Small Heavens]

Oh, pardon me, is it against the rules to link? I made links, I didn't mean anything bad with it, I didnt mean to break the rules, darn, sorry..

[ThRoewer]

Originally Posted by Krush

ThRoewer - I thought CP does treat brook? Humblefish has a few threads on different forums stating that it does - if it isn't against the rules I can post links. I've also seen it on RC from different folks saying that it works.

Actually here is a link from a website that sells CP sometimes, they state that it treats brook and uronema as well as velvet and ich -

https://aquariumstoredepot.com/produ...uine-phosphate

Not trying to contradict you or anything, as i'm 100% certain that you have more experience with this than I do. I just want to know what is right and what is not, as there is a lot of info out there stating that CP is good for brook and uronema, and if that's not the case then it really isn't much better than copper aside from being a bit more gentle on the fish.

Standard dose should be 40mg/gallon, but even 80mg/gallon has been shown to be safe for most fish by other reefers. In fact Humble states that he runs CP at 40mg/gal prophylactic and then ups the dosage to 60mg/gal if the fish have active signs of infection.

I have heard the same about sharks, pipefish, wrasses, and puffers re: CP - they do not tolerate it.

First off, Links are usually perfectly fine unless you are in some way affiliated with the site and try to promote sales.

As for the effectiveness of CP against Brooklynella - I would take that with caution if it is just supported by assumptions (first, that it in fact was Brooklynella, and second, that the curing was actually due to the dosing of CP).
Bacterial infections and ammonia burns can have a similar if not identical appearance as a Brooklynella infection. You would need to take a skin sample and verify that it is indeed Brooklynella to be absolutely sure.
CP has anti-inflammatory properties, so it may help fight bacterial infections which may have been confused with Brooklynella.
The effect of formalin on Brooklynella has been well researched and it would be always my first choice to treat Brooklynella.
Another issue with CP is that the average aquarist has no means of testing it, whether it is present or if it is still effective. That is a big problem given how fast CP may expire. Furthermore, it is rather hard to get CP in a verifiably effective form without a prescription from a vet. Ick-Shield unfortunately doesn't have neither a packaging nor an expiration date which makes using it a gamble.
So I would recommend to stick with the proven treatment options.

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[Small Heavens]

Thanks, appreciate it, great info!