Question for Calcium Reactor users

Scotty1772 · 04/20/2018, 06:57 AM

I am running a Geo 624 on my 120 with an aquarium plants regulator controlled via my apex. I was previously having issues with my effluent line clogging so I increased it up to a slight stream to alleviate that. I obviously raised my Cr PH range up higher to accommodate that. From an output standpoint, my levels are dialed in and content with the daily alk testing very stable at 8.5. However, my solenoid is constantly kicking on and off now and my graph is extremely choppy. Not sure what else I could adjust to flatten it out or whether I should even care to do so. My PSI coming out of the co2 tank is set to 10 and my bubble rate is already slowed at 1 per 9 seconds. Any recommendations or thoughts?

Bpb · 04/20/2018, 07:02 AM

It sounds like your gas is turned up too high and is lowering your ph too quickly so it cuts off often and has a yo-yo effect. Maybe try and turn the gas down or adjust your ph conditional on your program to allow for a lower ph off command

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Scotty1772 · 04/20/2018, 07:14 AM

by turning the gas down, you mean decrease the PSI from 10 to ? Thanks for responding

Bpb · 04/20/2018, 07:25 AM

Reduce the bubble count I’d think. I don’t use the AP regulator so not sure how it operates. I know it’s a little different

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Scotty1772 · 04/20/2018, 07:32 AM

bubble count is practically as slow as it can go...maxes out at 1 per 10 seconds and I am at 9....really think the only level to lower dramatically is the PSI valve but everything I've read says that should perform around 9 or 10 PSI...I'm perplexed

Bpb · 04/20/2018, 08:07 AM

Perhaps lower the ph conditional

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alewi28 · 04/20/2018, 08:42 AM

I have the same thing on my 120 but the 618 instead. Just holds less media. I have my solenoid cut off at 6.55 and back on at 6.75. It never cuts off though because I have everything adjusted properly. The regulator psi basically controls the size of the bubble. I have mine set to 7psi and my bubble knob set to 5. I don’t actually count bubbles. I keep my effluent at 90ml/min. I always keep my effluent steady at 90ml/min. It never changes. I just adjust bubble rate and psi to get it so that it holds the ph around 6.62-6.68. (Yours will be different depending on demand) let me see if I can find the video I used to get it adjusted right.

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alewi28 · 04/20/2018, 08:44 AM

Here’s the video.

https://youtu.be/gwlvfgDvQqg

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alewi28 · 04/20/2018, 09:30 AM

Here is the video

https://youtu.be/gwlvfgDvQqg

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badonkadonk · 04/23/2018, 03:27 PM

1 per 9 seconds sounds like a really low bubble rate unless your flow rate is a slow drip (which for your tank size should be greater, if you have at least moderate Ca uptake), or maybe the high psi is making up for the low bubble rate (I'd lower the psi to less than 5, 2 or 3 works for me). I have the same setup, though with the 618 Ca reactor (200 gallons total system volume) and run my reactor at about 1 bubble per 1 or 2 seconds and at about 3 psi. Since I've been dialed in for the past several years I actually adjust the psi on the regulator to hit my target pH level, which is 6.6. The API regulator is kind of touchy at the low end and very easy to go too far one direction or the other, so I find the psi gives finer control (a half psi one way or the other is all I change). I've never been up around the high end of the bubble count on the API, maybe since I run my psi fairly low. I'm not sure what the flow rate is on my effluent, but it's a steady stream within 1 inch of the outlet (I use one of those micro ball valves at the outlet and black vinyl tubing to prevent growth/clogging - best to use opaque tubing everywhere with 1/4" tubing IME), then a fast drip at greater distance. You may want to recalibrate your Ca reactor pH probe; I wouldn't think you can get the pH low enough to dissolve much of the media at a bubble rate of 1 per 9 seconds.

Set your Apex "THEN OFF" statement about 0.05 pH units below your target pH, set the effluent flow of something around a steady stream/fast drip (since you have the 624 the effluent flow may be able to go higher), lower the pressure to around 3 psi, and a bubble rate near 1 bubble per 2 or 3 seconds. See where it lands after a day. Then adjust the regulator bubble rate, or if close, tweak the psi. Your Apex should almost never shut off the solenoid that way, only when there is a clog or other problem. Once you get it dialed it they are remarkably stable - the most stable thing in my setup.

fishguy597 · 04/23/2018, 06:36 PM

How are you feeding water to your reactor?

ycnibrc · 04/23/2018, 09:13 PM

If u let the Apex Control your reactor regulator then it will turn on and off more n more chance to burn your electronic solenoid. What I recommend is u adjust your output to match with your alk consumption. Then record the pH inside your reactor ex 6.80 will keep your tank at 8.4 dkh. You need to keep the effluent constant and keep testing for several days so u can get a consistent 8.4 dkh in the tank. Now u can set up your Apex to turn off when reactor pH reach 6.50 and turn on at 7.1. If your tank is stable then the Apex never need to turn off your co2 regulator. Dont pay too much attention to bubble count and effluent drip per minute. Just make sure the tank dkh is what u want and adjust the bubble size (the black knob) to gain or decrease dkh in tank

five.five-six · 04/23/2018, 09:34 PM

You have to understand the the AP carbon doser doesn’t have a bubble rate, it has a dose rate. It produces 1 dose every 9 sec at your setting. What you can do is adjust the size of the dose with your regulator. You want to set it so that it will run correctly without the Apex, that’s how we did it in the old days. Set it perhaps slightly more acidic than you want and use the Apex to shut it off occasionally.

Yes it’s time consuming to set it correctly but it’s more efficient and wont tank your PH if the apex fails.

Bpb · 04/24/2018, 04:56 AM

That’s correct. When OP said the solenoid keeps shutting off, it didn’t make sense. The AP regulator IS a solenoid retrofitted to a micro timer. It’s a standard clippard mouse solenoid that opens and shuts for every “bubble”.

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badonkadonk · 04/24/2018, 01:05 PM

The solenoid on the AP regulator does not turn the CO2 flow off if the pH drops too low though. You plug the regulator into the Energy Bar in the case of the Apex, and that acts like a solenoid (each outlet is a switched relay), turning the regulator on or off. The regulator itself is "dumb" and does not respond to changes other than manual dialing of the bubble count knob. It'll still turn your media into mush if the effluent gets clogged.

04/20/2018, 06:57 AM	#1
Scotty1772 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Boothwyn, Pa. Posts: 212	Question for Calcium Reactor users I am running a Geo 624 on my 120 with an aquarium plants regulator controlled via my apex. I was previously having issues with my effluent line clogging so I increased it up to a slight stream to alleviate that. I obviously raised my Cr PH range up higher to accommodate that. From an output standpoint, my levels are dialed in and content with the daily alk testing very stable at 8.5. However, my solenoid is constantly kicking on and off now and my graph is extremely choppy. Not sure what else I could adjust to flatten it out or whether I should even care to do so. My PSI coming out of the co2 tank is set to 10 and my bubble rate is already slowed at 1 per 9 seconds. Any recommendations or thoughts?

04/23/2018, 09:13 PM	#12
ycnibrc STAG HORN DOMINATE REEF Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Irvine, California Posts: 3,348	If u let the Apex Control your reactor regulator then it will turn on and off more n more chance to burn your electronic solenoid. What I recommend is u adjust your output to match with your alk consumption. Then record the pH inside your reactor ex 6.80 will keep your tank at 8.4 dkh. You need to keep the effluent constant and keep testing for several days so u can get a consistent 8.4 dkh in the tank. Now u can set up your Apex to turn off when reactor pH reach 6.50 and turn on at 7.1. If your tank is stable then the Apex never need to turn off your co2 regulator. Dont pay too much attention to bubble count and effluent drip per minute. Just make sure the tank dkh is what u want and adjust the bubble size (the black knob) to gain or decrease dkh in tank __________________ SDR STAGHORN DOMINATE REEF Feature Reef of November 2019 GHL TOTM FEB 2020 ABC corals Current Tank Info: 360g Peninsula sps

04/23/2018, 09:34 PM	#13
five.five-six Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Corona Posts: 7,827 Blog Entries: 6	You have to understand the the AP carbon doser doesn’t have a bubble rate, it has a dose rate. It produces 1 dose every 9 sec at your setting. What you can do is adjust the size of the dose with your regulator. You want to set it so that it will run correctly without the Apex, that’s how we did it in the old days. Set it perhaps slightly more acidic than you want and use the Apex to shut it off occasionally. Yes it’s time consuming to set it correctly but it’s more efficient and wont tank your PH if the apex fails. __________________ Originally posted by yellowslayer13: "I hate that hole" Current Tank Info: SCMAS Member 225 peninsula euroreef RS180 Apex 400W X 3 20k radiums / Spectra mixed SPS

04/20/2018, 07:02 AM	#2
Bpb Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 3,148	It sounds like your gas is turned up too high and is lowering your ph too quickly so it cuts off often and has a yo-yo effect. Maybe try and turn the gas down or adjust your ph conditional on your program to allow for a lower ph off command Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

04/20/2018, 07:14 AM	#3
Scotty1772 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Boothwyn, Pa. Posts: 212	by turning the gas down, you mean decrease the PSI from 10 to ? Thanks for responding

04/20/2018, 07:25 AM	#4
Bpb Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 3,148	Reduce the bubble count I’d think. I don’t use the AP regulator so not sure how it operates. I know it’s a little different Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

04/20/2018, 07:32 AM	#5
Scotty1772 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Boothwyn, Pa. Posts: 212	bubble count is practically as slow as it can go...maxes out at 1 per 10 seconds and I am at 9....really think the only level to lower dramatically is the PSI valve but everything I've read says that should perform around 9 or 10 PSI...I'm perplexed

04/20/2018, 08:07 AM	#6
Bpb Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 3,148	Perhaps lower the ph conditional Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

04/20/2018, 08:42 AM	#7
alewi28 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 14	I have the same thing on my 120 but the 618 instead. Just holds less media. I have my solenoid cut off at 6.55 and back on at 6.75. It never cuts off though because I have everything adjusted properly. The regulator psi basically controls the size of the bubble. I have mine set to 7psi and my bubble knob set to 5. I don’t actually count bubbles. I keep my effluent at 90ml/min. I always keep my effluent steady at 90ml/min. It never changes. I just adjust bubble rate and psi to get it so that it holds the ph around 6.62-6.68. (Yours will be different depending on demand) let me see if I can find the video I used to get it adjusted right. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

04/20/2018, 08:44 AM	#8
alewi28 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 14	Here’s the video. https://youtu.be/gwlvfgDvQqg Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

04/20/2018, 09:30 AM	#9
alewi28 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 14	Here is the video https://youtu.be/gwlvfgDvQqg Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

04/23/2018, 03:27 PM	#10
badonkadonk Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Malibu, CA Posts: 227	1 per 9 seconds sounds like a really low bubble rate unless your flow rate is a slow drip (which for your tank size should be greater, if you have at least moderate Ca uptake), or maybe the high psi is making up for the low bubble rate (I'd lower the psi to less than 5, 2 or 3 works for me). I have the same setup, though with the 618 Ca reactor (200 gallons total system volume) and run my reactor at about 1 bubble per 1 or 2 seconds and at about 3 psi. Since I've been dialed in for the past several years I actually adjust the psi on the regulator to hit my target pH level, which is 6.6. The API regulator is kind of touchy at the low end and very easy to go too far one direction or the other, so I find the psi gives finer control (a half psi one way or the other is all I change). I've never been up around the high end of the bubble count on the API, maybe since I run my psi fairly low. I'm not sure what the flow rate is on my effluent, but it's a steady stream within 1 inch of the outlet (I use one of those micro ball valves at the outlet and black vinyl tubing to prevent growth/clogging - best to use opaque tubing everywhere with 1/4" tubing IME), then a fast drip at greater distance. You may want to recalibrate your Ca reactor pH probe; I wouldn't think you can get the pH low enough to dissolve much of the media at a bubble rate of 1 per 9 seconds. Set your Apex "THEN OFF" statement about 0.05 pH units below your target pH, set the effluent flow of something around a steady stream/fast drip (since you have the 624 the effluent flow may be able to go higher), lower the pressure to around 3 psi, and a bubble rate near 1 bubble per 2 or 3 seconds. See where it lands after a day. Then adjust the regulator bubble rate, or if close, tweak the psi. Your Apex should almost never shut off the solenoid that way, only when there is a clog or other problem. Once you get it dialed it they are remarkably stable - the most stable thing in my setup.

04/23/2018, 06:36 PM	#11
fishguy597 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Minooka Il Posts: 912	How are you feeding water to your reactor?

04/24/2018, 04:56 AM	#14
Bpb Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 3,148	That’s correct. When OP said the solenoid keeps shutting off, it didn’t make sense. The AP regulator IS a solenoid retrofitted to a micro timer. It’s a standard clippard mouse solenoid that opens and shuts for every “bubble”. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

04/24/2018, 01:05 PM	#15
badonkadonk Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Malibu, CA Posts: 227	The solenoid on the AP regulator does not turn the CO2 flow off if the pH drops too low though. You plug the regulator into the Energy Bar in the case of the Apex, and that acts like a solenoid (each outlet is a switched relay), turning the regulator on or off. The regulator itself is "dumb" and does not respond to changes other than manual dialing of the bubble count knob. It'll still turn your media into mush if the effluent gets clogged.