Is this Toadstool dying or dead?

[jpc763]

So I have been having difficulty with my Neon Green Toadstool (added 9/30/07). Here is a picture of it in it's happier days (12/6/07)



Well shortly after this picture was taken, it stopped extending it's polyps. It shed and extended polyps for a day or two and stopped again. It shed again, extended a day or two and stopped. Here is a pic of what it looked like when it would not open from (12/14/07)



During the 3rd time, it was recommended that the coral was unhappy in it's place so I relocated it to a spot higher up with less flow. It extended again for a day or two and stopped (4th time). Now it has been 3+ weeks without extending and it appears to be smaller. Here is a pic from tonight (2/25/08)



It is visibly smaller and kind of puckered. It is still firm to the touch, but I am convinced it is dead.

Before adding this guy, I added...
Green Zoanthus - 8/18/07
Euphyllia paracora - 8/18/07
Caulastrea furcata - 9/3/07
Actinodiscus - 9/3/07
Orange Zoanthus - 9/30/07

After adding this guy on 9/30, I have added...

Rush Zoanthus - 11/16/07
Hydnophora rigida - 11/16/07
Stylophora pistillata - 11/16/07
Trachyphyllia geoffroyi - 12/6/07
Pink Palythoa - 12/9/07
Blue & Green Zoanthus - 2/9/08

All of my other corals are doing very well. Just this "impossible to kill" coral is suffering.

Any ideas? If it is not dead, but dying, what should I do?

Thanks, John

[joesfiddy]

i think its fine toadstools are wierd they open close then open again they are touchy mine do the same.stay closed for a couple of days then open back up again.

[jpc763]

It has been closed for weeks, not days. Something like 3-4 weeks. Is that normal?

[fefo23]

If not braking in parts is ok mine does the same, I have three and they do that when not looking for food.

[joesfiddy]

try to move it to a different spot

[gh0st]

jpc, what is your water chemistry like?
What type of lighting is the leather under, and what was it kept under preiviously?

[jpc763]

Here are my parameters from Sunday.

Temp 77
Specific Gravity 1.025
pH 8.20
Ammonia 0.00
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Calcium 420
dKH 7
Phosphate (PO) 0

The tank is a 55g with T5 4x54w lighting.

Here are are 2 pictures.

The first picture is the first time he closed up 12/14/07


The second picture is from tonight 2/26/08


Why does the second picture look so much worse? It almost looks like it has hardened and coralline is growing on it.

[Lockhartia]

As long as it's not disintigrating, it's still alive, although it looks unhappy. My green toadstool goes through similar spells of being closed up. Do you have any fish/inverts that may be harassing it? Mine only opened up once or twice every few weeks. I figured it out when I caught my clownfish fanning sand all over it. One day she even carried a rock from across the tank to drop on it!

My cleaner shrimp hangs out on my large toadstool. It took it a little while to get used to it. Check (at night especially) to make sure it isn't something else in your tank annoying it.

[sharkdude]

take a soft bristle child's toothbrush and gently scrub it off on all surfaces, then replace in moderate flow area.

any other leathers? how are they doing?

you running any phosphate remover media? some of older aluminum based types negatively affect leathers.

[allenspidey]

Have you touched it? Does it feel soft and leathery or like it would break apart? It certainly doesn't look as good as it did.

[jpc763]

Originally posted by sharkdude
take a soft bristle child's toothbrush and gently scrub it off on all surfaces, then replace in moderate flow area.

any other leathers? how are they doing?

you running any phosphate remover media? some of older aluminum based types negatively affect leathers.

I have no other leathers in the tank. I am not running any phosphate remover media. I have a small bag of activated carbon in the sump, but other than that my filtration is biological.

So there are spaghetti worms on the rock that it sits on. They probe over it searching for food. I have those spagetti worms all over the tank. Other than that, I have not seen any other livestock messing with it.

It is firm, but not hard. So it does feel leathery.

I will try the toothbrush thing tonight. I have already moved it to a moderate flow location.

[sharkdude]

give it a couple of days after you brush it to see how it responds.
leathers routinely slough off waxy outer layer to shed alage and irritants. brushing helps it along quicker.

report back your results for others.

spaghetti worms are not a problem.

[corals b 4 bills]

IMO brushing it would just irritate it, I have some experience with toad stools. I have three toads- (1) 3" disc. and (2) 6" disc's both have been doing great for a year straight with the occasional wax removal mode the have, then one day they all closed up and turned into themselves like some sort of hibernation. I waited and waited for these guys to come out and EIGHT MONTHS go by and they started to unfurl and expand there polyps, the polyps used to expand 1"+ now six months later about 1/2". the only thing I did differently was to increase my Magnesium from 950 to 1300. Don't think they checked out until you see the tissue starting to melt away, give them some time and you'll see.

[jpc763]

OK, so I used a toothbrush to gently scrub the cap. I got a lot of the yellowish stuff off, but ht still looks bad. Wait and see time.

Thanks everyone for your help. J

[sharkdude]

now leave it alone and report back early next week

PS I too have some experience with leathers

[tinyreef]

that's a very impressive array of leathers/sarcos/lobos/sinus, shark. *thumbsup*

they all look like differing species (which makes it even more impressive imho), the similar lobo/sinu forms. are they different specimens?

how do you deal with any allelopathic tendencies (if there's any)?

do you have a tank thread i can look over?

[sharkdude]

Thanks TinyReef.
I'll send you a pm so as to not hijack this thread.

[jpc763]

Originally posted by sharkdude
now leave it alone and report back early next week

I will let you know. If it doesn't improve, maybe I will send it to you! That is one nice tank!

[powderbluetangy]

Put It in a high flow area. I have long polyp green and yelloe sarcophytons and they have full polyp extension in turbulentwater. The second pic looks like something has been nipping on it!

[tom obrecht]

You gave your tank parameters, but didn't include magnesium. Leathers need an ample amount of magnesium and that might be the culprite. In the past when my mag was low or on the low side they would close until the levels came back up.

[saltwaterpimp]

i agree more water movement.

[taylor t]

I also have a toadstool leather. Mine was in for 3 weeks or so about 3 years back. 2 days before it came back out, I had started target feeding it with food every day in effort to "stimulate" it. Maybe that would help you too. They are really pretty hard to kill though.

[saltwaterpimp]

target feed toadstools?

[jpc763]

Originally posted by tom obrecht
You gave your tank parameters, but didn't include magnesium. Leathers need an ample amount of magnesium and that might be the culprite. In the past when my mag was low or on the low side they would close until the levels came back up.

I do not test for Magnesium so I do not know how much I have.

As far as the other posts since my last, I have had it in low flow, high flow and medium flow. No change.

Status for Monday 3/3 - The stalk looks like chunks are missing from it and the patch is getting larger. I will take a picture tonight, but I believe that this guy is a gonner.

As far as nipping on it, I have 5 fish, 2 false percs, 1 sixline, 1 royal gramma and 1 rainfords goby. I have some hermits, a cleaner shrimp, a sally lightfoot crab and 4 emerald crabs. I also have a brittlestar. None of those are coral eaters as far as I know.

[sharkdude]

last ditch effort, you can try a coral dip.
if chunks are sloughing off, its an infection of some sort and you need to stop it before it spreads. then it can heal over time.

if it starts deteriorating fast, siphon out rotten flesh, and/or remove the leather entirely.