heavy metals found in my triton test- again but corals looking good

[jda]

...sorry, I use Salifert. I do not know of any titration kids for copper. I am also not sure which kinds of copper it will find and which kinds the triton tests for. The organic and inorganic and all of that makes copper really hard to monitor. RHF has a lot of articles on copper that I do not even fully understand after reading them a lot of times... all that I know is that it will skim out and it will bind to aragonite, so even traces will disappear from the water column, so adding it regularly is the only real way to keep it around unless you don't skim and are bare bottom without any live rock. This is why I think that it is an additive that it constantly keeping it in the tank - if it came from the salt mix or a container, it should have gotten all bound up or skimmed out by now.

[slavetonet]

Originally Posted by codydemmel4

I mean I am clearly no expert, like you. I am just doing my research and following people who have insane colonies, color and growth.

That is why I am dosing the 3 things I am dosing: Flatworm stop and Coral booster (first started because I thought I had flatworms, never did so I am just continuing till I run out and then I will make a decision to continue or not) AF V because that also has been recommended and since I barely do water changes, I am not giving the corals the vitamins they need. Every since I started the AF V and have been testing alk every single day to make sure it stays at 7.7, the corals have looked great both during the day and especially during the night.

I am not an expert at all nor do I want to be called anything.
What is needed to be understood is what is NSW and why is it that composition.
Mainly its 96.5% fresh water and the remainder 3.5% is salt and macro + trace elements
Out of the 3.5% is the minimum critical elements.
After those elements have been taken by all the living organism in the ocean.
You are left with the measurable elements that everyone called NSW.

Corals health is just more than just their big 3 Cal, Alk, Mag.
It's all the fauna that interact with the corals, which we can't even replicate in our home aquarium. This is where the supplements bottles come into play.

[codydemmel4]

Originally Posted by Pife

What all pumps and powerheads do you have in your system. How about mag floats? Which heaters do you run? Do you have a magnetic probe holder? I'm curious of all the brands and models? What pump do you use to mix and or transfer salt water?

reeflo pump for the return, 3 jabeo pp15s, 1 gyre 150. Yes I have one mag float on the display tank. I run 2 aqueon heaters that have been good and keep the tank very stable at 78-79.

for mixing I use a mag 18, that is pretty worn but I do not see any signs of rust.

I also never show any signs of copper when I do the polyfilter but it has to be something very minimal and it doesnt effect every acro but once it does "hit" them it will be after about 2-3 weeks of them being in my tank and they will slowly slowly decline over another 2-3 weeks. Some coral continue to look great when others just slowly decline. very confusing, but that last triton test did show a ton of unwanted stuff in my tank.

[codydemmel4]

Originally Posted by jda

...sorry, I use Salifert. I do not know of any titration kids for copper. I am also not sure which kinds of copper it will find and which kinds the triton tests for. The organic and inorganic and all of that makes copper really hard to monitor. RHF has a lot of articles on copper that I do not even fully understand after reading them a lot of times... all that I know is that it will skim out and it will bind to aragonite, so even traces will disappear from the water column, so adding it regularly is the only real way to keep it around unless you don't skim and are bare bottom without any live rock. This is why I think that it is an additive that it constantly keeping it in the tank - if it came from the salt mix or a container, it should have gotten all bound up or skimmed out by now.

Yeah it is strange, maybe I will try that suggestion of dosing a full strength into 1 gallon to see if copper shows up. However since I stopped dosing flatworm stop and coral booster, my corals dont have as good of PE

[jda]

That is kinda what I was saying with all of the different kinds of free and bound and organic and inorganic kinds of copper, it might be impossible to test the same way as the triton test did. There is copper in seawater, but I forget which kind and in what concentrations.

Don't chase PE. It is as fruitless as chasing PH. Just keep everything else in good shape and the corals will be fine. I have nearly no PE except for my Milles and a Wonderland Tenius, but I like to keep fish so next to nothing that I do will help that... but I can grow corals out of my tank in three years, which is about what other people can do in that same timeframe.

[codydemmel4]

Originally Posted by jda

That is kinda what I was saying with all of the different kinds of free and bound and organic and inorganic kinds of copper, it might be impossible to test the same way as the triton test did. There is copper in seawater, but I forget which kind and in what concentrations.

Don't chase PE. It is as fruitless as chasing PH. Just keep everything else in good shape and the corals will be fine. I have nearly no PE except for my Milles and a Wonderland Tenius, but I like to keep fish so next to nothing that I do will help that... but I can grow corals out of my tank in three years, which is about what other people can do in that same timeframe.

Im not chasing PE but I do look at it as a good indicator how my corals are doing because once they start to not have as good PE, that is when I notice the tips starting to STN or the side of the coral. The alk has been very very stable at 7.7, I have been checking everyday so I know there is no alk swing

[codydemmel4]

Originally Posted by slavetonet

I am not an expert at all nor do I want to be called anything.
What is needed to be understood is what is NSW and why is it that composition.
Mainly its 96.5% fresh water and the remainder 3.5% is salt and macro + trace elements
Out of the 3.5% is the minimum critical elements.
After those elements have been taken by all the living organism in the ocean.
You are left with the measurable elements that everyone called NSW.

Corals health is just more than just their big 3 Cal, Alk, Mag.
It's all the fauna that interact with the corals, which we can't even replicate in our home aquarium. This is where the supplements bottles come into play.

I would call you an expert considering how nice your tank is haha. I did stop dosing FWS and coral booster on the 18th and the corals do not look as good as they did when I stopped. Unfortunately I have no way of showing if copper and the other unwanted metals went down.

[codydemmel4]

Can see some of the tips of this birdnest have algae growing on it because it had stan from the tip.



Can see this acro is stning and dying.



Same with this acro which was looking great 2 weeks ago.



Same with this one, starts to stn on the tips and then the branch does.



This one isn't STNing yet but I feel like it will anyday now, just doesn't look near as good as it did 2-3 weeks ago.



Then I have all of these that look great, which is why this is so confusing.

[jda]

Are those burnt tips from a few months back with the alk issues? If so, you need to snip those off - they will heal many times faster than they will grow over the dead tissue (if they do at all).

You are going to lose some frags, especially in a newer tank. A few is nothing to worry about... a lot is different. STN is different. Now that you have everything nice and stable, don't sweat a dead frag every once in a while... it is really hard to ignore, I know, but it happens.

Are you seeing new encrusting on ones that did not have STN issues? If so, then you are good. Some of those that look like Milles look like they have encrusted the plugs and rocks, which is excellent. The ones that had some of the tip burn or STN can take a year or more to fully recover, so don't give up on them but don't use them as a bellweather either. FWIW - I had a friend give me a SC Orange Passion (which I already have) that had burnt tips and some STN to see if I could save it... and even though I clipped the tip and remounted it fresh, it has been almost a year and it has only just healed and encrusted about 1-2 MM... the one that I have has grown from golfball to about softball size in that same time.

The recovery time for an alk disaster is one of the main reasons why you don't see many of the super-experienced strive for ULN tanks... the minimal gains are just not worth walking that thin line where a year setback could be on the horizon with one small misstep. Most of them like low nutrient tanks, but in the range where alk at 10 will cause you any issues. ...sorry for this tangent.

If you want to help out the ones that got damaged, take them off of the rocks, remount them on frag plugs and put them on a frag rack really close to the lights. ...move them up slowly over a week, but eventually get them under 4 to 6" of water and let them get more energy from the lights. If they are on the back or side, just rotate them a bit to get all sides exposed to the light. You can also buy a clip-on light just for frags - I really like to use a 150W HQI Hamilton Bimini Sun if I get a batch of frags or do a fresh cutting... just clip it onto the side right over a frag rack for a while and let it shine straight down, then take it down when I don't need it. This is not necessary, but can help when I don't want frags to get lost in my frag tank which can get unruly at times with high end shrooms, sunbursts, zoas and some fish in between cleanouts.

[codydemmel4]

Originally Posted by jda

Are those burnt tips from a few months back with the alk issues? If so, you need to snip those off - they will heal many times faster than they will grow over the dead tissue (if they do at all).

You are going to lose some frags, especially in a newer tank. A few is nothing to worry about... a lot is different. STN is different. Now that you have everything nice and stable, don't sweat a dead frag every once in a while... it is really hard to ignore, I know, but it happens.

Are you seeing new encrusting on ones that did not have STN issues? If so, then you are good. Some of those that look like Milles look like they have encrusted the plugs and rocks, which is excellent. The ones that had some of the tip burn or STN can take a year or more to fully recover, so don't give up on them but don't use them as a bellweather either. FWIW - I had a friend give me a SC Orange Passion (which I already have) that had burnt tips and some STN to see if I could save it... and even though I clipped the tip and remounted it fresh, it has been almost a year and it has only just healed and encrusted about 1-2 MM... the one that I have has grown from golfball to about softball size in that same time.

The recovery time for an alk disaster is one of the main reasons why you don't see many of the super-experienced strive for ULN tanks... the minimal gains are just not worth walking that thin line where a year setback could be on the horizon with one small misstep. Most of them like low nutrient tanks, but in the range where alk at 10 will cause you any issues. ...sorry for this tangent.

If you want to help out the ones that got damaged, take them off of the rocks, remount them on frag plugs and put them on a frag rack really close to the lights. ...move them up slowly over a week, but eventually get them under 4 to 6" of water and let them get more energy from the lights. If they are on the back or side, just rotate them a bit to get all sides exposed to the light. You can also buy a clip-on light just for frags - I really like to use a 150W HQI Hamilton Bimini Sun if I get a batch of frags or do a fresh cutting... just clip it onto the side right over a frag rack for a while and let it shine straight down, then take it down when I don't need it. This is not necessary, but can help when I don't want frags to get lost in my frag tank which can get unruly at times with high end shrooms, sunbursts, zoas and some fish in between cleanouts.

None of them with the STN or burnt tips in those pictures were in the tank when I had the alk burn. I legit lost every single coral besides maybe 2-5 which are doing good now. But I am still losing newer frags that I got from local reefers, they look great for 2-3 weeks then seem to slowly get STN on the tips or side of the coral that is getting the most light, which I know is not too much light but confuses me. My 8x80w sunpower is 9 inches off the water and all the frags are at least 6 inches down from that so at least 15 inches off the light. This is why I am thinking the unwanted hevay metals are very slowly having an impact on my tank, which thinking back is probably my fault. I left the TDS at 1 for too long and have not done enough water changes. So what I am going to do moving forward is at least 1 water change a week and monitor the tank very closely. Still going to be tetsing alk every day. Some corals are encrusting and looking good, especially the millies but the tenuis, stags and birdsnest just look so so.

You are very right that it is hard just watching a coral die but I am realizing that it is okay and to just look at the overall health which I think is improving. I will be doing my first water weekly water change tonight or tomorrow depending on time.

Why do you say move the ones up that are having stn issues with the tips? Dont most people suggest to move them down?

[jda]

You are right that heavy metal poisoning is a slow process. You could be on the money here. Water changes will help a lot. I don't usually mess with DI and RO carts until my TDS hits 2 or 3, but I guess that all depends what the 2 or 3. Of course, zero is better and they need to be changed, but I would doubt that 1 TDS was much of the issue. Some Cuprisorb might be a good idea. Polyfilter can get some forms of metals, but not all.

That is not too much light. No way. Don't sweat the SunPower.

Most people that suggest moving them down have low quality lights like most LEDs and their "playing" with the panels or the lenses is what caused most of the issues. With a high quality light like your T5 or even a MH, more light is always better. I always move them up, but 14K Phoenix and 20K Radium are no issue for corals. Slow is important. However, I don't have issues with tissue dying on the lighted side, so maybe leaving them alone until this subsides might be good and you can move them up later.

[codydemmel4]

Originally Posted by jda

You are right that heavy metal poisoning is a slow process. You could be on the money here. Water changes will help a lot. I don't usually mess with DI and RO carts until my TDS hits 2 or 3, but I guess that all depends what the 2 or 3. Of course, zero is better and they need to be changed, but I would doubt that 1 TDS was much of the issue. Some Cuprisorb might be a good idea. Polyfilter can get some forms of metals, but not all.

That is not too much light. No way. Don't sweat the SunPower.

Most people that suggest moving them down have low quality lights like most LEDs and their "playing" with the panels or the lenses is what caused most of the issues. With a high quality light like your T5 or even a MH, more light is always better. I always move them up, but 14K Phoenix and 20K Radium are no issue for corals. Slow is important. However, I don't have issues with tissue dying on the lighted side, so maybe leaving them alone until this subsides might be good and you can move them up later.

I have the standard 90 gpd spectrapure, but I added another carbon block with chloramines (read that my city sometimes uses them) and I also added another DI (since both of these were all together only $45 I thought it was well worth it) So I make sure I am adding in as pure as water as possible, my tap water does read over 300 on the handheld TDS. I am going to send in another triton test in a month to see if anything has changed with these water changes, etc. If copper and other unwanted metals are still high after that, then I am at a lost.

[codydemmel4]

I just realized and remembered that since the house I moved into is built in 1950, all of the pipes are copper so I am sure they have a higher copper content then the other house I lived in which was built in the 2000s. Could this have something to do with this or am I over thinking now since I use an RO/DI?

[Pife]

Simple answer. No.

[jda]

It would take several lifetimes for copper in a pipe to break down into your water supply. This is not an issue.

[codydemmel4]

I am clueless on what is going on then. The tips become looking very very brittle and look like theyre been nipped at or something but I know that is not the issue. Then after the tips start to look brittle, they start to STN and then that coral will slowly die over 1-2 weeks. Even if I cut off the brittle part, the new frag will look good for a couple days and then the same thing will happen over again.

[Pife]

Originally Posted by codydemmel4

I am clueless on what is going on then. The tips become looking very very brittle and look like theyre been nipped at or something but I know that is not the issue. Then after the tips start to look brittle, they start to STN and then that coral will slowly die over 1-2 weeks. Even if I cut off the brittle part, the new frag will look good for a couple days and then the same thing will happen over again.

Are all your acros doing this?

[swnoob]

Everything you're describing sounds like what my corals suffered when i had low nutrients. I always tried to keep my tank at <.02 phosphates and <5 nitrates while i ran an alk of 7.

I also thought i had maybe something leaching heavy metals in my tank but never sent in my water sample to get tested. I did daily 10% water changes for several weeks to try and get whatever it was out but looks like i was doing more damage than good.

I have since bumped my phosphates to >.08 with nitrates to 20 and an alk of 8.5. My tank is looking better than ever with good growth.

I also did not do any water changes for a couple months but dosed couple drops of lugols and 2 mls of replenish daily.

I recently fragged a bunch and did not find any brittle acros like before.

[chercm]

Originally Posted by swnoob

Everything you're describing sounds like what my corals suffered when i had low nutrients. I always tried to keep my tank at <.02 phosphates and <5 nitrates while i ran an alk of 7.

I also thought i had maybe something leaching heavy metals in my tank but never sent in my water sample to get tested. I did daily 10% water changes for several weeks to try and get whatever it was out but looks like i was doing more damage than good.

I have since bumped my phosphates to >.08 with nitrates to 20 and an alk of 8.5. My tank is looking better than ever with good growth.

I also did not do any water changes for a couple months but dosed couple drops of lugols and 2 mls of replenish daily.

I recently fragged a bunch and did not find any brittle acros like before.

seems like a lot of us are havin the same issue that the tips seems to nip on with brown alage growing. i did the triton and came back with high chronium and cobalt but nothing is rusty in my tank

[codydemmel4]

Originally Posted by Pife

Are all your acros doing this?

I would say 80% are with 2-3 weeks of being in my tank. they look great and then all of a sudden they slowly decline starting from the very top tip of the coral, then hit about every branch tip

[codydemmel4]

Originally Posted by swnoob

Everything you're describing sounds like what my corals suffered when i had low nutrients. I always tried to keep my tank at <.02 phosphates and <5 nitrates while i ran an alk of 7.

I also thought i had maybe something leaching heavy metals in my tank but never sent in my water sample to get tested. I did daily 10% water changes for several weeks to try and get whatever it was out but looks like i was doing more damage than good.

I have since bumped my phosphates to >.08 with nitrates to 20 and an alk of 8.5. My tank is looking better than ever with good growth.

I also did not do any water changes for a couple months but dosed couple drops of lugols and 2 mls of replenish daily.

I recently fragged a bunch and did not find any brittle acros like before.

Thanks for the reply, I do not wanna raise my alk higher then where it is now I know that. I will try to raise my nurtients but I do not think mine are that low for it to be involved with that. However I will test my nutrients today and check back here with what the hanna ulr says

[codydemmel4]

Originally Posted by chercm

seems like a lot of us are havin the same issue that the tips seems to nip on with brown alage growing. i did the triton and came back with high chronium and cobalt but nothing is rusty in my tank

Yeah it is very strange and annoying.








I am not sure if this is anything but before the move of the tank when my corals did great. My rose bubble tip anemone used to extend very very long and almost look like a long tentacle anemone. Now in the new home it is a lot smaller and bubbles up like the pictures you see on live aquaria etc. Would that prove anything?

[codydemmel4]

What about iodine?

I saw some threads that said low iodine could cause alk burn like symptoms. on my triton tests my iodine has been 7 and 10, triton suggest 60 and the great barrier reef is right around 60 too

[Pife]

Originally Posted by codydemmel4

What about iodine?

I saw some threads that said low iodine could cause alk burn like symptoms. on my triton tests my iodine has been 7 and 10, triton suggest 60 and the great barrier reef is right around 60 too

Why not dose a couple of drops of lugals a day for a week and see if there is any changes. I'd do it rather than not do anything.

[codydemmel4]

Originally Posted by Pife

Why not dose a couple of drops of lugals a day for a week and see if there is any changes. I'd do it rather than not do anything.

I will have to look into it, doing more water changes would raise iodine too correct? I have no idea how to test for iodine though, dont wanna over dose