Led lifespan

unze · 01/15/2019, 11:46 AM

Which led brand has the best lifespan and parts availability.

In the old days metal halides units lasted for ever , but I am finding the Leds have a limited life span and you can’t get parts as manufacturers just bring out new product and obsolete the old.

mcgyvr · 01/15/2019, 11:52 AM

Metal halide ballasts last for a LONG time.. (caps go).. The bulbs need to be changed quite often..

I've got Chinese black box LED fixtures running strong for a long time now.. one ~5 years.. one nearing 10 years old now.. (I run them at typically 50-70% power)

Heat is the #1 killer of LEDs.... A fixture run at half power will potentially last much longer than the same fixture run at full power.. So its nearly impossible to answer your question as there are way too many variables involved.. The biggest being how that fixture is used..
If you want a fixture to last long the best thing you can do is buy one with more power than you need and run it at half its power or something like that..

Most manufacturers try to cram as much in as they can which equates to heat issues....

Dmorty217 · 01/16/2019, 08:18 AM

Most fixtures are rated for 40,000hrs+ of run time but like mcgyvr mentioned can last much longer than that running at less than 100%

mcgyvr · 01/16/2019, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmorty217

Most fixtures are rated for 40,000hrs+ of run time but like mcgyvr mentioned can last much longer than that running at less than 100%

I'm not sure I've ever seen an actual lifespan "rating" on any LED in this industry.. Meaning that the company actually did any lifespan testing and has any sort of data to back that up and even better to provide any sort of warranty or guarantee based on that.. Most LED fixtures that I've seen in this industry lack any "certifications" like UL,etc... (They may claim a UL rating but thats on the actual external power supply brick and not the fixture as as whole)

What I have seen is companies basically just reuse a common/generalized "rating" that LEDs should last 50,000 hours. That is basically the "promise" that one would hope all LED fixtures strive for for lack of a better term.. That number is also used by some standards for LED performance (LM-80,etc...)..

When I designed my "DIY LED" fixture almost 10 years ago (maybe longer..) I did my best to ensure that the LED would last 50k hours when the fixture was run at 100%/full power by utilizing thermocouples/thermal profiling to ensure I met all of the required die temperatures that the manufacturer of the LED claimed should allow "full lifespan" of said LED.. If the datasheet said that junction temperature needs to be below 100 deg C or whatever to achieve the stated lifespan then my testing and design met or exceeded that..

unze · 01/16/2019, 11:28 AM

When buying a led light is it a good idea to spray the circuit board with a protective lacquer.
Over time I find that the salt in the air destroys electrical equipment.

mcgyvr · 01/16/2019, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unze

When buying a led light is it a good idea to spray the circuit board with a protective lacquer.
Over time I find that the salt in the air destroys electrical equipment.

A "conformal coating" can be used to protect a circuit board from environmental elements like salt spray,etc... HOWEVER.. That conformal coating will also negatively effect heat transfer of components to the ambient due to the thermal resistance of that coating material..
Without a good picture of the thermal aspects of that circuit board assembly you could potentially be doing more harm than good..

unze · 01/17/2019, 02:00 AM

good points

Kevin Guthrie · 10/02/2019, 06:03 PM

Not sure I should revive this old thread but I was wondering... if LEDs are supposed to last 40k hours and we run them 10 hours a day, that's 3650 hours per year or 11 years. The question though is what happens during that time? Does the output degrade? Does the spectrum change? What happens to the par? Or do they (by some miracle) keep putting out what they did on day one and suddenly go dark?

ca1ore · 10/02/2019, 06:29 PM

Isn’t the 50K hours intended to be the L70 point - in other words, after that long the LED retains 70% of its original lumens. Since LEDs are specific colors, I wouldn’t think spectral change would be an issue. The longevity of a fixture isn’t just dependent on the LED, but also the supporting electronics. I mostly upgrade lights before they wear out anyhow.

wildman926 · 10/02/2019, 07:14 PM

Too many variables. Just run them as cool as possible to make them last as long as possible.

mcgyvr · 10/02/2019, 07:35 PM

Typically there is a minor spectral change and loss of lumens over the lifespan of an led...
Its nothing near the losses of t5/mh bulbs..not even close...

alton · 10/04/2019, 05:27 AM

People forget there are different tier LED's. The cheaper fixtures use cheaper LED's. I have a Build my Led that I started using in 2012 and still works great. I had a Mars Aqua LED that dropped 50% in PAR in two years. When I ran MH I had friends changing their AI Led Pucks out faster than I was changing my Lamps. And at the same time had another friend that ran Radion Gen 2 for 6+ years in a closed canopy. The aggravating part is the warranty on most fixtures being only one year!

01/15/2019, 11:52 AM	#2
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Metal halide ballasts last for a LONG time.. (caps go).. The bulbs need to be changed quite often.. I've got Chinese black box LED fixtures running strong for a long time now.. one ~5 years.. one nearing 10 years old now.. (I run them at typically 50-70% power) Heat is the #1 killer of LEDs.... A fixture run at half power will potentially last much longer than the same fixture run at full power.. So its nearly impossible to answer your question as there are way too many variables involved.. The biggest being how that fixture is used.. If you want a fixture to last long the best thing you can do is buy one with more power than you need and run it at half its power or something like that.. Most manufacturers try to cram as much in as they can which equates to heat issues.... __________________ Who me?

01/16/2019, 08:18 AM	#3
Dmorty217 Saltwater Addict Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Vandalia OHIO Posts: 11,624	Most fixtures are rated for 40,000hrs+ of run time but like mcgyvr mentioned can last much longer than that running at less than 100% __________________ Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs

10/02/2019, 06:29 PM	#9
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Isn’t the 50K hours intended to be the L70 point - in other words, after that long the LED retains 70% of its original lumens. Since LEDs are specific colors, I wouldn’t think spectral change would be an issue. The longevity of a fixture isn’t just dependent on the LED, but also the supporting electronics. I mostly upgrade lights before they wear out anyhow. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

10/02/2019, 07:14 PM	#10
wildman926 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: CTX Posts: 2,904	Too many variables. Just run them as cool as possible to make them last as long as possible. __________________ Beware of recommendations by those who don't actually use their recommendation!! The search function actually works quite well!! Tanks:Planet Aquarium 150g LPS, Planet Aquarium 90g Softie

10/02/2019, 07:35 PM	#11
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Typically there is a minor spectral change and loss of lumens over the lifespan of an led... Its nothing near the losses of t5/mh bulbs..not even close... __________________ Who me?

01/15/2019, 11:46 AM	#1
unze Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 411	Led lifespan Which led brand has the best lifespan and parts availability. In the old days metal halides units lasted for ever , but I am finding the Leds have a limited life span and you can’t get parts as manufacturers just bring out new product and obsolete the old.

01/16/2019, 11:28 AM	#5
unze Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 411	When buying a led light is it a good idea to spray the circuit board with a protective lacquer. Over time I find that the salt in the air destroys electrical equipment.

01/17/2019, 02:00 AM	#7
unze Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 411	good points

10/02/2019, 06:03 PM	#8
Kevin Guthrie Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 506	Not sure I should revive this old thread but I was wondering... if LEDs are supposed to last 40k hours and we run them 10 hours a day, that's 3650 hours per year or 11 years. The question though is what happens during that time? Does the output degrade? Does the spectrum change? What happens to the par? Or do they (by some miracle) keep putting out what they did on day one and suddenly go dark?

10/04/2019, 05:27 AM	#12
alton Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Zuehl, Texas Posts: 4,460	People forget there are different tier LED's. The cheaper fixtures use cheaper LED's. I have a Build my Led that I started using in 2012 and still works great. I had a Mars Aqua LED that dropped 50% in PAR in two years. When I ran MH I had friends changing their AI Led Pucks out faster than I was changing my Lamps. And at the same time had another friend that ran Radion Gen 2 for 6+ years in a closed canopy. The aggravating part is the warranty on most fixtures being only one year!