never saw this......

[Yuri Barros]

I never saw (P. biaculeatus) in a group.........always as a single pair......

check this vid from Solomons.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nnuZWeAzcA

[LargeAngels]

Wow. And there was 3 fairly good sized individuals side by side, along with Some A frenatus.

I’ve never even had a male grow more than 1/4 the size of a female, even after 10-12 years. All my males seemed to have reached a small size and never grow, although the females grow.

[ThRoewer]

I think normally you find pairs in solitary BTAs. I can't remember to have seen maroons in BTA clone colonies as those are most of the time occupied by members of the Tomato complex or clarkiis.
That they are here in a clone colony side by side with members of the Tomato complex (seemingly A. melanopus) might be one of the reasons why so many large ones get along. It may just be a necessity for them to maintain their status there.

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[Yuri Barros]

I think that its (A. melanopus).......a rare variety from Solomon Islands.......they are red....with White tail.......

very rare to find pictures of this (A. melanopus) variety........in all these years I think that I have only 2 or 3...........

[ThRoewer]

Originally Posted by Yuri Barros

I think that its (A. melanopus).......a rare variety from Solomon Islands.......they are red....with White tail.......

very rare to find pictures of this (A. melanopus) variety........in all these years I think that I have only 2 or 3...........

I think I had a pair of quite similar melanopus back in Germany. I got them as large adults and interestingly the male was larger than the female.

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[Yuri Barros]

while (A. frenatus) males are small..........(A. melanopus) males are almost the female size...........

[ThRoewer]

Originally Posted by Yuri Barros

while (A. frenatus) males are small..........(A. melanopus) males are almost the female size...........

Well, the original male of my melanopus pair back then was actually larger than the female.

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[Yuri Barros]

maybe it was an old male.........and the female was not completed developed or it was younger.......

[phender]

Maybe the female maroons were only that close because they were trying to chase off the diver. Their home anemones could have be 5-6 feet from each other.
Just a thought.

[OrionN]

Also several of the Maroons got chunks missing of their fins. I am sure that there are a lot of aggressive interaction between these fishes.

[ThRoewer]

Originally Posted by LargeAngels

...
I’ve never even had a male grow more than 1/4 the size of a female, even after 10-12 years. All my males seemed to have reached a small size and never grow, although the females grow.

I have seen Maroon pairs where the male was at least 3/4 of the female. I don't think it's impossible or even extremely rare in the wild.

Originally Posted by OrionN

Also several of the Maroons got chunks missing of their fins. I am sure that there are a lot of aggressive interaction between these fishes.

I would see it more likely that there was aggression between the Maroons and the melanopus. That might also be the reason why so many large Maroons get along - common enemies unite.

[Yuri Barros]

Yes Phil.......the anemone colony seems to be large..........and the clowns have its own territory........

and some have lost pieces of the tail..........

this is the only Picture I know of a pair with similar size........from Andaman...



all the other Pictures I saw males are very tiny............

[ThRoewer]

I've seen more pairs of gold stripe maroons with large males. IMO, they are a different species than the "normal" maroons.

[Yuri Barros]

yes......(Premnas epigrammata)........

[ThRoewer]

Originally Posted by Yuri Barros

yes......(Premnas epigrammata)........

I would even question if Premnas is actually a valid genus.
I think the genetic evidence is strong that they are Amphiprion like the rest of the clownfish. This is also supported by the fact that they can easily be crossed with percula and ocellaris.
Another possibility would be that percula and ocellaris belong to Premnas as they all belong to the same clade.

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[Yuri Barros]

They all changed names........

for exemple....

Saddlebacks are Genus (Paramphiprion)

Skunks are Genus (Phalerebus)

Spinecheeks are Genus (Premnas)

Tomato Complex are Genus (Amphiprion)

Ocellaris - Percula are Genus (Actinicola)

the rest are needing a revision..........

Chrysogaster - Fuscocaudatus

Latifasciatus - Allardi

Bicinctus - Omanensis - Chagosensis - Nigripes

Chrysopterus group

Clark´s (Yellow tail group)

Chrysagyrus (White tail group)

Latezonatus

Akindynos - Mccullochi

Leucokranos - Thiellei

[phender]

There have always been lumpers and splitters among taxonomists. I'm thinking you might have a hard time convincing most of the taxonomists that populations that can interbreed and produce fertile offspring deserve to be in separate genus.

[Yuri Barros]

YES....almost impossible task.......


In case of (A.leucokranos) and (A. thiellei)........due the fact that all have a strong influence of a common Parental species (A. sandaracinos)........these two taxa should be placed in a new Genus........maybe taxonomists have to create this new Genus..........I think it do not exist...........

Parental species of (A. thiellei)......



Parental species of (A. leucokranos)..........

[Yuri Barros]

In my oppinion Taxonomists have to create 8 new Genus :

1) Chrysogaster - Fuscocaudatus

2) Latifasciatus - Allardi

3) Bicinctus - Omanensis - Chagosensis - Nigripes

4) Chrysopterus group

5) Clark´s (Yellow tail group)

6) Chrysagyrus (White tail group)

7) Latezonatus (monotypic)

8) Akindynos - Mccullochi

9) Leucokranos - Thiellei

Only the 5) and the 6)........maybe should be put at the same Genus..........

[Yuri Barros]

this is what exists today...........


Saddlebacks are Genus (Paramphiprion)

Skunks are Genus (Phalerebus)

Spinecheeks are Genus (Premnas)

Tomato Complex are Genus (Amphiprion)

Ocellaris - Percula are Genus (Actinicola)


the others have to be created.........

[ThRoewer]

Originally Posted by Yuri Barros

They all changed names........

for exemple....

Saddlebacks are Genus (Paramphiprion)

Skunks are Genus (Phalerebus)

Spinecheeks are Genus (Premnas)

Tomato Complex are Genus (Amphiprion)

Ocellaris - Percula are Genus (Actinicola)

the rest are needing a revision..........

Chrysogaster - Fuscocaudatus

Latifasciatus - Allardi

Bicinctus - Omanensis - Chagosensis - Nigripes

Chrysopterus group

Clark´s (Yellow tail group)

Chrysagyrus (White tail group)

Latezonatus

Akindynos - Mccullochi

Leucokranos - Thiellei

Originally Posted by Yuri Barros

this is what exists today...........


Saddlebacks are Genus (Paramphiprion)

Skunks are Genus (Phalerebus)

Spinecheeks are Genus (Premnas)

Tomato Complex are Genus (Amphiprion)

Ocellaris - Percula are Genus (Actinicola)


the others have to be created.........

Those are not genera but just clades or sub-clades within the genus Amphiprion.
Given how clownfish can interbreed with each other and create fertile offspring it is rather doubtful that there is any justification, let alone need, to break up Amphiprion in favor of a multitude of micro genera.

However, an argument that could be made is that either Premnas should be merged (back) into Amphiprion or that ocellaris, percula, and "darwiniensis" (the black "ocellaris" from Darwin) are moved into to Premnas or an it predating older genus. The latter case may actually make sense in the light that these 4 share more similarities with each other than with the rest of Amphiprion.

[Yuri Barros]

Split them in new Genus......is according to their evolution........

Join them into a single Genus is to go back to ancestrality..........

Look at their Juveniles..........there´s a huge morphological diferences between Juveniles of each group that I pointed.............

Relationship with anemones too.......few groups show signs of melanism while others do no show..........

There´s a huge diference between them...........

I do not agree in put them together.............its the easy way to do anemonefish taxonomy...................

I´m not fan of the easy way...........I like to explore the details..............specially the Juveniles morphology.......

[ThRoewer]

It seems that melanopus and maroons sharing anemones is by no means rare:
Cohabitation promotes high diversity of clownfishes in the Coral Triangle

For the two most common interspecific social groups (A. clarkii
with A. perideraion, and Premnas biaculeatus with Amphiprion
melanopus), a two-way ANOVA with post hoc Tukey Kramer
test was used to compare the Index of Dispersion between
inter- and intraspecific social groups for each social group
member. ...

And it turns out that maroons are generally the subordinates in these anemone sharing agreements.

Interspecific cohabitation altered the spatial use of host
anemones by the subordinate species while dominant individuals
maintained similar spatial habitat usage (figure 4).
Analysis on the subordinates (A. perideraion and P. biaculeatus)
of the two main social groups (A. clarkii–A. perideraion and A.
melanopus–P. biaculeatus) demonstrated significant clustering
on the outer edge of the anemone...

[Yuri Barros]

this is not taxonomy......

I don´t understand the link with taxonomy.........

Reticulated Evolution exists..........its a way to creation of new species........

But all these taxa was evolved during a huge period of isolation..........specially before the end of Glacial Era and the raise of the Sea level..........

the Sea level raise unite these taxa that was separated........

but you have to consider the time of the isolation that lead to the speciation...........