Curbing Agression with Timeout in the Refugium.

jewlz · 03/07/2017, 04:46 PM

Hey Guys,

I have a 2 year old neon dottyback who was being quite aggressive (as they are known to be) to a newly added African Flameback Angel, so I caught him today and put him on timeout in the refugium section of the sump and left the angel in the DT. (Pics below)

Dottyback in Sump:

African Flameback Hiding inside some Hammer Coral:

System is a 55 gal DT which overflows to a 25 gal sump with a skimmer compartment, refugium, and return section. I'd estimate that the refugium section is about 1'x1'x1', the dottyback is about 3 inches long.

How long do you think I should leave the dottyback on timeout before he'll forget which rock caves were his in the tank above?

Cheers,
J

mcgyvr · 03/07/2017, 04:55 PM

Until he apologizes nicely..

heathlindner25 · 03/07/2017, 05:19 PM

Weeks if not months, give the pygmy plenty of time to establish territory

jewlz · 03/07/2017, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Until he apologizes nicely..

lol he already said he was sorry but I told him that's not good enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by heathlindner25

Weeks if not months, give the pygmy plenty of time to establish territory

Im thinking we'll start with a month. In the mean time, I've had to turn the red lights off on the sump, might add a screen or something to keep him safe from the return compartment.

Mrs. Music · 03/07/2017, 07:47 PM

pretty good idea to ground the turkey.

Dealseer · 03/07/2017, 07:49 PM

The fish is just acting like he would in the wild.

heathlindner25 · 03/07/2017, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dealseer

The fish is just acting like he would in the wild.

When this occurs, the dotty will rush into the side of the opponent till the guts come out. Nasty fish.

DSmithZ28 · 03/07/2017, 08:35 PM

Sometimes changing your aquascape can help in the DT.

dendrite · 03/08/2017, 07:52 AM

Now that you've gone to the trouble of successfully isolating him to the refugium, you might think seriously of just trading him in. The dottyback is just behaving like himself and the problem will likely resurrect itself with the angel or any new additions.

jewlz · 03/08/2017, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dendrite

Now that you've gone to the trouble of successfully isolating him to the refugium, you might think seriously of just trading him in. The dottyback is just behaving like himself and the problem will likely resurrect itself with the angel or any new additions.

I know that... I'll probably ask my LFS if they'll take him but the thing is that he's been my favorite fish since I got him and the 55 gal isn't too heavily stocked. my hope is that he will fall into the same behavior pattern that he had before adding the angel.

He used to roam the tank on patrol all the time but never really chased anything for more than a brief challenge and then that other fish would back down.

J

jewlz · 03/28/2017, 03:45 PM

For anyone who is interested, after 21 days in the sump, I'm going to try to reintroduce the dottyback to the tank. My hope is that he's been out long enough to not remember where his territory is.

Here he is in the breeder net.

And here's the dwarf angel swimming below.

They haven't acknowleged eachother yet.

I'll consider this a success if he comes back aggressive to anything other than the pigmy that I added at the beginning of the month. Will report back once he is released.

[edit: added the number of days in the sump]

heathlindner25 · 03/28/2017, 04:17 PM

Good to hear.

jewlz · 03/28/2017, 09:09 PM

So the bad news is that he picked up right where he left off. I guess the good news is that the angel seems to be pretty fast and strong after being unmolested for the past few weeks.

Question now is, will the aggression die down with time (pecking order sort of thing) and how long do I wait hoping for that before I have to step in and try to catch this bugger once and for all now.

Such a shame, he was my favorite for a long time.

Mrs. Music · 03/29/2017, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jewlz

So the bad news is that he picked up right where he left off. I guess the good news is that the angel seems to be pretty fast and strong after being unmolested for the past few weeks.

Question now is, will the aggression die down with time (pecking order sort of thing) and how long do I wait hoping for that before I have to step in and try to catch this bugger once and for all now.

Such a shame, he was my favorite for a long time.

The aggression won't improve, unfortunately.

nereefpat · 03/29/2017, 07:20 AM

This was interesting. Crazy how aggressive those little dottybacks are. Perhaps you could trade up for an orchid dottyback, which are supposedly less nasty. Keep us posted.

jewlz · 03/29/2017, 08:12 PM

Ok here's the day-later update.

TL;DR The time out didn't work out as I thought, but the dottyback has settled down.

The dottyback calmed down overnight last night (I turned the lights out shortly after my last post to try to get the fish to sleep it off). The fish can now swim near eachother and cross paths without getting into a high speed chase from one end of the tank to the other.

I'll leave it with the following inconclusive remarks about what I was trying to do:
I originally thought that by removing the dottyback for a number of days (21), he would forget about his territory and thus, upon reintroduction, he would not chase down the new fish. That might have had some effect, but it probably didn't because when he came back, he primarily showed aggression to the new fish anyways.

Something that makes me think that this was still a good idea though, is that it gave the angel a chance to start eating and establish his own territory within the tank, without being harassed every minute. After living for almost a month without being beaten up, I think that helped him get through being picked on for a few hours yesterday.

I think we can put this thread to bed.

03/07/2017, 04:55 PM	#2
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Until he apologizes nicely.. __________________ Who me?

03/07/2017, 07:47 PM	#5
Mrs. Music Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Sylvania, OH Posts: 636	pretty good idea to ground the turkey. __________________ Midwest Custom Acylic 180 gallon, 2 AI Hydra Twenty Six HD, Tunze 6055, remote custom 75 gallon sump with chaeto refugium, Pan World pump, Reef Octopus INT 200 skim

03/29/2017, 07:20 AM	#15
nereefpat Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Central Nebraska Posts: 3,190	This was interesting. Crazy how aggressive those little dottybacks are. Perhaps you could trade up for an orchid dottyback, which are supposedly less nasty. Keep us posted. __________________ Pat Current Tank Info: 125 in-wall , 40b sump. 6 bulb T5. ASM G2 skimmer. LPS and leathers

03/07/2017, 05:19 PM	#3
heathlindner25 Moved On Join Date: May 2012 Location: flowery branch georgia Posts: 3,644	Weeks if not months, give the pygmy plenty of time to establish territory

03/07/2017, 07:49 PM	#6
Dealseer Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 241	The fish is just acting like he would in the wild.

03/07/2017, 08:35 PM	#8
DSmithZ28 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Deep South Posts: 35	Sometimes changing your aquascape can help in the DT.

03/08/2017, 07:52 AM	#9
dendrite Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: denver Posts: 493	Now that you've gone to the trouble of successfully isolating him to the refugium, you might think seriously of just trading him in. The dottyback is just behaving like himself and the problem will likely resurrect itself with the angel or any new additions.

03/28/2017, 04:17 PM	#12
heathlindner25 Moved On Join Date: May 2012 Location: flowery branch georgia Posts: 3,644	Good to hear.

03/28/2017, 09:09 PM	#13
jewlz Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: North America Posts: 116	So the bad news is that he picked up right where he left off. I guess the good news is that the angel seems to be pretty fast and strong after being unmolested for the past few weeks. Question now is, will the aggression die down with time (pecking order sort of thing) and how long do I wait hoping for that before I have to step in and try to catch this bugger once and for all now. Such a shame, he was my favorite for a long time.

03/29/2017, 08:12 PM	#16
jewlz Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: North America Posts: 116	Ok here's the day-later update. TL;DR The time out didn't work out as I thought, but the dottyback has settled down. The dottyback calmed down overnight last night (I turned the lights out shortly after my last post to try to get the fish to sleep it off). The fish can now swim near eachother and cross paths without getting into a high speed chase from one end of the tank to the other. I'll leave it with the following inconclusive remarks about what I was trying to do: I originally thought that by removing the dottyback for a number of days (21), he would forget about his territory and thus, upon reintroduction, he would not chase down the new fish. That might have had some effect, but it probably didn't because when he came back, he primarily showed aggression to the new fish anyways. Something that makes me think that this was still a good idea though, is that it gave the angel a chance to start eating and establish his own territory within the tank, without being harassed every minute. After living for almost a month without being beaten up, I think that helped him get through being picked on for a few hours yesterday. I think we can put this thread to bed.