Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Lighting, Filtration & Other Equipment
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 09/09/2018, 02:31 PM   #1
SantaMonica
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Santa Monica, California, USA
Posts: 2,443
Metal-case LED scrubber light safety

With the increased usage of natural algal filtration such as algae scrubbers, comes the increased usage of illumination to make the photosynthetic filtering process occur. However a certain type of light has come onto the market, and this light needs to be addressed because it is potentially unsafe when used on ATS algae turf scrubbers. If you do not have these lights, then you can decide whether to get them or not. If you already have them, then you can learn how to protect yourself.

The following posts are one person's professional opinion on the safety of these algae scrubber lights. You should consult your own professional advice and opinion from an independent electrical engineer, electronics engineer, electrician, or safety technician.


SantaMonica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/09/2018, 04:12 PM   #2
outssider
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Reseda, Ca.
Posts: 1,400
Quote:
Originally Posted by SantaMonica View Post
a certain type of light has come onto the market.
what light....give us a link....


__________________
Please don't feed the bears because the bears will become dependent on free handouts and forget how to take care of themselves …...

Current Tank Info: 75 Gal. Mixed reef
outssider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/10/2018, 04:43 AM   #3
mcgyvr
Registered Member
 
mcgyvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 16,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by SantaMonica View Post
The following posts are
What posts?


__________________
Being blunt and having fun
mcgyvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/10/2018, 06:34 PM   #4
SantaMonica
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Santa Monica, California, USA
Posts: 2,443
Sorry will get it posted in a bit.


__________________
Inventor of the easy-to-DIY upflow scrubber, and also the waterfall scrubber that everyone loves to build:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1424843
SantaMonica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/12/2018, 02:07 PM   #5
SantaMonica
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Santa Monica, California, USA
Posts: 2,443
The lights are typically used when people build or buy the waterfall scrubber design we invented in the year 2008.

The light is a metal-case LED lighting fixture that is bolted on, and is typically made in China and sold online, but it could be made anywhere. It is designed for gardens and patios, with some rain, or for indoor growing areas that get no rain at all. See photos.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2008 wf on sump.jpg (31.5 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg 240-120 led light with lightening.jpg (54.3 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg 240-120 led light back.jpg (70.0 KB, 19 views)
SantaMonica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/12/2018, 08:10 PM   #6
mcgyvr
Registered Member
 
mcgyvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 16,926
So...........??...


__________________
Being blunt and having fun
mcgyvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/12/2018, 08:35 PM   #7
Gorgok
Registered Member
 
Gorgok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cypress, Texas
Posts: 1,873
How is that worse than the hardware store spring clamp light sockets used for cheato (or scrubbers before too)?

My 'dangerous barely splash proof metal chinese' grow lights are attached to my stand, above the sump. But i don't see them falling into the tank ever, so it shouldn't be an issue...


Gorgok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/13/2018, 09:12 PM   #8
SantaMonica
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Santa Monica, California, USA
Posts: 2,443
The spring clamp ones are not being sold as safe scrubber lights. And, you are DIY, so you can only hurt yourself; not others. But if you sold them to others, and labeled them as safe scrubber lights, and then they fell into the water and injured someone, the outcome could be different.

I'll post more details.


SantaMonica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/14/2018, 09:45 AM   #9
mcgyvr
Registered Member
 
mcgyvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 16,926
Like any other line powered equipment..(pumps/heaters,etc..)..if there is any chance of exposure to water you simply put that device on a gfci protected circuit..done..
These scrubbers you seem to be slowly trying to suggest are unsafe (and of course to attempt to promote your own products) are not intended to be located or exposed to locations where direct water exposure would be a problem.. Yes..accidents can happen though.. One could drop the power brick of a SM scrubber into their tank and be potentially exposed to the same dangers as you claim these others have..


__________________
Being blunt and having fun
mcgyvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/14/2018, 01:56 PM   #10
SantaMonica
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Santa Monica, California, USA
Posts: 2,443
Quote:
you simply put that device on a gfci protected circuit
From a liability standpoint, a manufacturer of lights cannot assume the customer will do anything, at all.

Quote:
are not intended to be located or exposed to locations where direct water exposure would be a problem
Yes they are. That's were scrubbers go. On top of open, wet, saltwater sumps.

Quote:
One could drop the power brick of a SM scrubber into their tank
This is similar to display lighting falling in. But all customers of aquarium products know not to drop electrical products into the water. What customers don't know, is that the thing they are about to touch on their sump could have 240/120 volts on its metal case, and it is possibly not grounded, either.

That's why I recommend U.L. listed only, and 2 meters of low-voltage DC cable, to keep the brick far away.


SantaMonica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/14/2018, 05:11 PM   #11
mcgyvr
Registered Member
 
mcgyvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 16,926
Do you have proof that these lights are not properly grounded or have a record of insulation failure or energized casings?.


__________________
Being blunt and having fun
mcgyvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/14/2018, 06:39 PM   #12
fijisrfr
Registered Member
 
fijisrfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 559
So, do you offer lights suggestions?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


fijisrfr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09/15/2018, 05:18 AM   #13
SantaMonica
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Santa Monica, California, USA
Posts: 2,443
I'm giving my professional opinion on those lights, in hopes of reducing chances of injuries. Readers can then decide for themselves. I'll show how to make them safer but you can find many examples on youtube.


SantaMonica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/15/2018, 11:25 PM   #14
SantaMonica
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Santa Monica, California, USA
Posts: 2,443
I was the first to test and use these types lights on waterfall scrubbers in the year 2010, as a way of getting away from fluorescent bulbs. There is a side-by-side test of LED vs CFL that I did in 2011 on youtube.

The LED lights at first were expensive and cost $150 for one set shipped from China. But the pink “plant grow” colors worked well, and the heat was less. The lifespan was also longer, and it was not fragile to ship to customers. So I started using them on the first waterfall ATS algae scrubbers, which I invented in the year 2008; here is the acrylic box with a bottom shelf for the lights to set on, and a top shelf above the lights for protection; see photo.

Currently, all waterfall scrubbers for sale by others use this same open source free-to-copy waterfall scrubber design because it kind of works, and because the design was given away for free by me. It has problems, but again, it’s free to copy. And almost all pre-made scrubber builders also now use those metal-case LED bolt-on lights, mainly because they now cost only $5 including shipping from China. This makes the cost of those pre-made scrubbers artificially low, because they don’t have to make the lights safe (or even test the lights for safety), and this transfers the electrical risk to you, the customer. This typical Ebay listing of 20 lights for $99 even says "U.S. stock" to make it less apparent that they are from China; see photo.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2008 sm100 box.jpg (26.2 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg ebay listing.jpg (19.5 KB, 11 views)
SantaMonica is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:22 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2018 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.