starting a reef with no live rock?

ssminnow81 · 01/30/2012, 11:59 AM

im starting a 125 gallon reef i only have about 20lbs of live rock from my nano tank and i bought 120 lbs of live sand. would this be enough to cycle my tank? whats the downfall from not starting with live rock?

bumski667 · 01/30/2012, 12:03 PM

I started my tank with dead rock and sand. About 160 of sand and 130 of rock. I have a 180 gallon. I used Toms One and Only and tank cycled fine after about 3 weeks. Added fish 2 days into it.

Playa-1 · 01/30/2012, 12:19 PM

It's kinda like going on a road trip with no gas money and 5 gallons of gas.

You will be better off waiting until you can fill up the car and have some extra gas money.

You can cycle the tank with sand and a little rock but the problem is that it's not going to support much or a bioload unless you have additonal biofiltration somewhere else. Adding all the rockwork upfront is the way to go.

ssminnow81 · 01/30/2012, 12:53 PM

the 120 lbs of live sand wont be good enough?

Waddleboy · 01/30/2012, 01:04 PM

your live sand will provide some bacteria but no where near enough to maintain the cycle once you do add rock and fish and whatever you are adding. you will most likely get another cycle.

swanny · 01/30/2012, 01:04 PM

You'll be fine just be patient. I just started a 120g with 75. lbs. of MarcoRock only and my tank cycled fine. 6 weeks in and I have some fish and coral. I had nothing live in my tank at first, I wanted to start disease and pest free and I plan on keeping it that way.

sslak · 01/30/2012, 01:08 PM

Totally disagree with Playa-1, but I think he misunderstood...or I do. You plan on adding all 120 lbs of dry right away with the 20 lbs of live right? You should. If you're talking about cycling with the 20lbs of live and adding 120 lbs of dry after the cycle...then I think you should wait until you have the dry rock before trying to cycle.

I think your tank will cycle just fine with what you describe. The good thing is you have some established live rock. This contains all the life you want in your new tank.

The only restriction is time...you need to wait for the life on that 20 lbs of rock to reproduce and populate the other 120 lbs. Your "bio load" will not be that of a 120g tank for quite a long time (weeks/months), so wait for the cycle, stock slowly and you will be fine!

The more live rock you add, the faster the cycle "should" be, but there are no absolutes.

Playa-1 · 01/30/2012, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssminnow81

the 120 lbs of live sand wont be good enough?

Good enough for what? What plans to you have for this tank. What type of livestock and quantities do you expect to support in this tank?

username in use · 01/30/2012, 01:15 PM

I would add the dry rock and the 20lbs of live. You have enough bio-filtration in that to support the life from your 20g tank. Just let the tank mature for a few months before trying to add more life to it.

IridescentLily · 01/30/2012, 03:10 PM

I have no live rock, i bought all BRS 'reefsaver' rock.
I have an excellent pod population which my goby has eaten exclusively for the past year

Here's the rock, and then the tank when we first set it up (took 6-8 weeks to cycle this non live rock with 4ppm of ammonia (the non-surfecant kind).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78e9c...e_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRBuc...e_gdata_player

Here it is a year later
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzcDz...e_gdata_player

ssminnow81 · 01/30/2012, 04:28 PM

lps, softies,inverts, and a few fish on the smaller side

OceanDweller · 01/30/2012, 04:44 PM

Thanks Irridecent liliy, I imagine there is little to no phosphate in that LR, sometimes its scary getting older rocks and having the "Cooking" debate. I am really flirting with the idea of doing this as well, and then slowly adding in corals that are attached to LR vs frag plugs.

Playa-1 · 01/30/2012, 04:49 PM

I think the 20lbs of LR and the 120lb of LS will support that assuming that you're planning to add more base rock or cured liverock later should you decide to expand on the bioload. If you're planning that in the long run, then I would recommend that you do all the dry rock up front. It's not going to be very practical to add a bunch of rock to an established ecosystem later. Just my 4 cents

ssminnow81 · 01/31/2012, 08:48 PM

i have about 100lbs of base rock, so im adding that and whatever live rock plus the live sand all at the same time.

01/30/2012, 11:59 AM	#1
ssminnow81 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 112	starting a reef with no live rock? im starting a 125 gallon reef i only have about 20lbs of live rock from my nano tank and i bought 120 lbs of live sand. would this be enough to cycle my tank? whats the downfall from not starting with live rock?

01/30/2012, 12:03 PM	#2
bumski667 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 49	I started my tank with dead rock and sand. About 160 of sand and 130 of rock. I have a 180 gallon. I used Toms One and Only and tank cycled fine after about 3 weeks. Added fish 2 days into it. __________________ 180 Gallon Lee-mar\| Maxspect Mazarra \| SWC 230 \| Proflex 4 \| 2 x MP40esw \| MP10esw \| AquaMedics Kalk Mixer \| JBJ 300W Heaters\| Laguna MaxFlow \| Teco TR-20 Current Tank Info: 180 Gallon Lee-mar\| Maxspect Mazarra \| SWC 230 Skimmer \| Proflex 4 Sump \| 2 x MP40esw \| MP10esw \| Aqua Medics Kalkwasser Mixer \| 2 x JBJ 300W Heaters \| Toms Aqualifter \| Laguna Return Pump

01/30/2012, 01:04 PM	#6
swanny Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: denver Posts: 406	You'll be fine just be patient. I just started a 120g with 75. lbs. of MarcoRock only and my tank cycled fine. 6 weeks in and I have some fish and coral. I had nothing live in my tank at first, I wanted to start disease and pest free and I plan on keeping it that way. __________________ 120 gallon soon to be (hopefully) sps dominant. Current Tank Info: 120g rr

01/30/2012, 01:08 PM	#7
sslak Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,705	Totally disagree with Playa-1, but I think he misunderstood...or I do. You plan on adding all 120 lbs of dry right away with the 20 lbs of live right? You should. If you're talking about cycling with the 20lbs of live and adding 120 lbs of dry after the cycle...then I think you should wait until you have the dry rock before trying to cycle. I think your tank will cycle just fine with what you describe. The good thing is you have some established live rock. This contains all the life you want in your new tank. The only restriction is time...you need to wait for the life on that 20 lbs of rock to reproduce and populate the other 120 lbs. Your "bio load" will not be that of a 120g tank for quite a long time (weeks/months), so wait for the cycle, stock slowly and you will be fine! The more live rock you add, the faster the cycle "should" be, but there are no absolutes. __________________ Steve Current Tank Info: 58 Oceanic/20g Sump/250w XM 20k/2x39w T5 True Actinic 03/2010 Reef Octopus NW Cone Skimmer

01/30/2012, 01:15 PM	#9
username in use Sciencing Daily Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 6,560	I would add the dry rock and the 20lbs of live. You have enough bio-filtration in that to support the life from your 20g tank. Just let the tank mature for a few months before trying to add more life to it. __________________ Joshua "With fronds like these, who needs anemones?" - Albert Einstein Current Tank Info: multiple nano's sprinkled around the house

01/30/2012, 12:19 PM	#3
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	It's kinda like going on a road trip with no gas money and 5 gallons of gas. You will be better off waiting until you can fill up the car and have some extra gas money. You can cycle the tank with sand and a little rock but the problem is that it's not going to support much or a bioload unless you have additonal biofiltration somewhere else. Adding all the rockwork upfront is the way to go.

01/30/2012, 12:53 PM	#4
ssminnow81 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 112	the 120 lbs of live sand wont be good enough?

01/30/2012, 01:04 PM	#5
Waddleboy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 766	your live sand will provide some bacteria but no where near enough to maintain the cycle once you do add rock and fish and whatever you are adding. you will most likely get another cycle.

01/30/2012, 03:10 PM	#10
IridescentLily Editor-Reefkeeping mag Join Date: May 2008 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 3,858 Blog Entries: 5	I have no live rock, i bought all BRS 'reefsaver' rock. I have an excellent pod population which my goby has eaten exclusively for the past year Here's the rock, and then the tank when we first set it up (took 6-8 weeks to cycle this non live rock with 4ppm of ammonia (the non-surfecant kind). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78e9c...e_gdata_player http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRBuc...e_gdata_player Here it is a year later http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzcDz...e_gdata_player __________________ ~April Editor-Reefkeeping Magazine

01/30/2012, 04:28 PM	#11
ssminnow81 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 112	lps, softies,inverts, and a few fish on the smaller side

01/30/2012, 04:44 PM	#12
OceanDweller Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Longview Texas Posts: 294	Thanks Irridecent liliy, I imagine there is little to no phosphate in that LR, sometimes its scary getting older rocks and having the "Cooking" debate. I am really flirting with the idea of doing this as well, and then slowly adding in corals that are attached to LR vs frag plugs. __________________ Brad

01/30/2012, 04:49 PM	#13
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	I think the 20lbs of LR and the 120lb of LS will support that assuming that you're planning to add more base rock or cured liverock later should you decide to expand on the bioload. If you're planning that in the long run, then I would recommend that you do all the dry rock up front. It's not going to be very practical to add a bunch of rock to an established ecosystem later. Just my 4 cents

01/31/2012, 08:48 PM	#14
ssminnow81 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 112	i have about 100lbs of base rock, so im adding that and whatever live rock plus the live sand all at the same time.