Help Somethings not right

jmc1024 · 03/25/2020, 12:56 PM

Hello all,
Looking for some thoughts/options. I have a 65 gallon mixed reef tank. Very stable tank. Weekly water changes/husbandry done. Water chem is stable and fine. I have had this tank set up for about 4 years and have never had many loses. All of my fish go though a QT. So over the last few days I lost 2 fish and one is not looking good.

1) lost a one spot fox face that has been in the tank for about 2 years.
2) lost an algae eating blenny - newest fish added, has been in tank for about 2 months.
3) Hoeven wrasse, is alive but constantly laying on sand. Wrasse has been in tank for about 3 1/2 years. Bought mature so could be getting old.

To be honest - I did take blenny out of QT after about 10 days of QT. Treated w cupermine and Prazi. I do usually do a good 2 weeks but there wasn't much algae in qt so I felt like he needed to eat more. (might be the problem but since no visible sign of parasites on other fish it's hard to say)

Fox face was showing some damage to tail fin but seemed consistent with backing into rocks. Other fins were healthy. Always ate well no issues.

Wrasse has always been healthy- if it were wrasse alone I might think his time is just up. He has been w me for about 4 years and I bought him mature. However, since I lost 2 fish I'm not so sure.

I was able to look at wrasses fins closely with magnafine glass. Seems fine, nothin on fins. No white dots. Fins seem very healthy but breathing seems a little laborer. Very tired DOn't think it's Ich but maybe in gills where I can't see.

In addition I have another 8 or so fish- flame, damsel, 2 clowns, jawfish, basset, 3 cardinals. All have been w me a while. As of now all look good.

I have a bunch of mixed corals, all healthy, good growth.

Any thoughts from experienced people would be very much appreciated.
Thanks
Jay

HumbleFish · 03/25/2020, 07:09 PM

So, one disease copper does not treat is Uronema. Which is usually deadly to chromis, and sometimes anthias, butterflies & angels. However, other species may display milder symptoms if the parasites infiltrate the gills. Heavy breathing, scratching and sometimes death.

I'm not saying your DT has Uronema for sure, but that disease has been prevalent lately.

jmc1024 · 03/25/2020, 07:28 PM

Thanks for the thought- would it commonly come in on a blenny? That would be the only way my tank could have been affected. Before adding the algae blenny haven't added a fish for almost 8 months. I have an anthas but he's healthy and has been in the tank for about 1 1/2 years.

ThRoewer · 03/25/2020, 11:46 PM

Two weeks of quarantine isn't enough. I generally do 2 to 3 months, longer if any fish shows the slightest signs of a possible infection.

Copper is a tricky treatment if you don't check the copper level in the water often enough. If the copper concentration gets too low it might just suppress symptoms and weaken the parasite for a while. This is particularly the case with Amyloodinium (velvet). Amyloodinium is not reliably treated with copper anyway as there have been copper resistant strains observed (copper still kills them but only at doses that are way over the lethality level for fish). And the low dose copper treatment you find at many wholesalers and LFS might be creating more copper tolerant Amyloodinium strains.

Even "normal" copper sensitive strains may survive and show back up if the copper level wasn't properly maintained throughout the full treatment period. In such cases, it may take up to 6 weeks before it the parasite shows back up.

Then there is acquired immunity of fish who survived a previous Amyloodinium infection. Those fish may carry the parasite but not get sick. They may, however, infect other fish.

jmc1024 · 03/26/2020, 04:43 AM

I've found 2 weeks of QT to be pretty effective. This is 1st issue in 4 years and not even sure what the issue is. But I understand that it is possible for something to get though.

One thing I am noticing about the wrasse- he seems pretty healthy but is having difficult staying buoyant. Fins & Scales seem clean fins are sharp. HE's eating a bit. But seems like swimming is a struggle. Not as fast and like he's struggling to stay up in the water. Then he lays on the sand for a bit and swims around again. This has been happening for a few days.

HumbleFish · 03/26/2020, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmc1024

Thanks for the thought- would it commonly come in on a blenny?

Possibly; almost any fish can be afflicted by uronema. It just isn't typically fatal other than with chromis + anthias.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmc1024

I've found 2 weeks of QT to be pretty effective. This is 1st issue in 4 years and not even sure what the issue is. But I understand that it is possible for something to get though.

It would be better to move the fish into a separate observation tank after 2 weeks of treatment. To ensure no diseases are still present.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmc1024

One thing I am noticing about the wrasse- he seems pretty healthy but is having difficult staying buoyant. Fins & Scales seem clean fins are sharp. HE's eating a bit. But seems like swimming is a struggle. Not as fast and like he's struggling to stay up in the water. Then he lays on the sand for a bit and swims around again. This has been happening for a few days.

When he swims, is he doing so vertically? Tail up or tail down? The former can indicate a swim bladder disorder; the latter a spinal injury.

jmc1024 · 03/26/2020, 07:37 AM

He swims fin down, Think thinking a bladder disorder. I've tried to get him to move him but it'd difficult with all the corals and rock hiding spots. Can they recover from Swim Bladder Disorder?

HumbleFish · 03/26/2020, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmc1024

He swims fin down, Think thinking a bladder disorder. I've tried to get him to move him but it'd difficult with all the corals and rock hiding spots. Can they recover from Swim Bladder Disorder?

If a gas bubble is present, you can lance the air out using a 30 gauge insulin syringe.: http://www.reefedition.com/emergency...-swim-bladder/

For swim bladder infections, the following are possible treatment options:

(1) Dose magnesium sulfate (Epsom Salt) at 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons.
(2) Give the affected fish a 30 minute Methylene Blue bath.
(3) Dose Metronidazole in conjunction with Neomycin. (You can food soak this combination as well.)

jmc1024 · 03/27/2020, 08:25 PM

Great thanks for the info!! Problem is going to be getting him out of the tank.

03/25/2020, 12:56 PM	#1
jmc1024 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 87	Help Somethings not right Hello all, Looking for some thoughts/options. I have a 65 gallon mixed reef tank. Very stable tank. Weekly water changes/husbandry done. Water chem is stable and fine. I have had this tank set up for about 4 years and have never had many loses. All of my fish go though a QT. So over the last few days I lost 2 fish and one is not looking good. 1) lost a one spot fox face that has been in the tank for about 2 years. 2) lost an algae eating blenny - newest fish added, has been in tank for about 2 months. 3) Hoeven wrasse, is alive but constantly laying on sand. Wrasse has been in tank for about 3 1/2 years. Bought mature so could be getting old. To be honest - I did take blenny out of QT after about 10 days of QT. Treated w cupermine and Prazi. I do usually do a good 2 weeks but there wasn't much algae in qt so I felt like he needed to eat more. (might be the problem but since no visible sign of parasites on other fish it's hard to say) Fox face was showing some damage to tail fin but seemed consistent with backing into rocks. Other fins were healthy. Always ate well no issues. Wrasse has always been healthy- if it were wrasse alone I might think his time is just up. He has been w me for about 4 years and I bought him mature. However, since I lost 2 fish I'm not so sure. I was able to look at wrasses fins closely with magnafine glass. Seems fine, nothin on fins. No white dots. Fins seem very healthy but breathing seems a little laborer. Very tired DOn't think it's Ich but maybe in gills where I can't see. In addition I have another 8 or so fish- flame, damsel, 2 clowns, jawfish, basset, 3 cardinals. All have been w me a while. As of now all look good. I have a bunch of mixed corals, all healthy, good growth. Any thoughts from experienced people would be very much appreciated. Thanks Jay

03/25/2020, 11:46 PM	#4
ThRoewer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Fremont, CA Posts: 9,555	Two weeks of quarantine isn't enough. I generally do 2 to 3 months, longer if any fish shows the slightest signs of a possible infection. Copper is a tricky treatment if you don't check the copper level in the water often enough. If the copper concentration gets too low it might just suppress symptoms and weaken the parasite for a while. This is particularly the case with Amyloodinium (velvet). Amyloodinium is not reliably treated with copper anyway as there have been copper resistant strains observed (copper still kills them but only at doses that are way over the lethality level for fish). And the low dose copper treatment you find at many wholesalers and LFS might be creating more copper tolerant Amyloodinium strains. Even "normal" copper sensitive strains may survive and show back up if the copper level wasn't properly maintained throughout the full treatment period. In such cases, it may take up to 6 weeks before it the parasite shows back up. Then there is acquired immunity of fish who survived a previous Amyloodinium infection. Those fish may carry the parasite but not get sick. They may, however, infect other fish. __________________ Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio 3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...

03/25/2020, 07:09 PM	#2
HumbleFish Moved On Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 4,757	So, one disease copper does not treat is Uronema. Which is usually deadly to chromis, and sometimes anthias, butterflies & angels. However, other species may display milder symptoms if the parasites infiltrate the gills. Heavy breathing, scratching and sometimes death. I'm not saying your DT has Uronema for sure, but that disease has been prevalent lately.

03/25/2020, 07:28 PM	#3
jmc1024 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 87	Thanks for the thought- would it commonly come in on a blenny? That would be the only way my tank could have been affected. Before adding the algae blenny haven't added a fish for almost 8 months. I have an anthas but he's healthy and has been in the tank for about 1 1/2 years.

03/26/2020, 04:43 AM	#5
jmc1024 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 87	I've found 2 weeks of QT to be pretty effective. This is 1st issue in 4 years and not even sure what the issue is. But I understand that it is possible for something to get though. One thing I am noticing about the wrasse- he seems pretty healthy but is having difficult staying buoyant. Fins & Scales seem clean fins are sharp. HE's eating a bit. But seems like swimming is a struggle. Not as fast and like he's struggling to stay up in the water. Then he lays on the sand for a bit and swims around again. This has been happening for a few days.

03/26/2020, 07:37 AM	#7
jmc1024 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 87	He swims fin down, Think thinking a bladder disorder. I've tried to get him to move him but it'd difficult with all the corals and rock hiding spots. Can they recover from Swim Bladder Disorder?

03/27/2020, 08:25 PM	#9
jmc1024 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 87	Great thanks for the info!! Problem is going to be getting him out of the tank.