Reef Central Online Community
Marine Depot

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > Invert and Plant Forums > Marine Plants & Macroalgae
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 02/26/2020, 10:01 PM   #1276
Michael Hoaster
Registered Member
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,550
I got my new plants today. Another excellent order from live-plants.com. Decided to remove as much unwanted algae as possible from the seagrass bed beforehand. The codium and tufted joint algae went in after. It looks pretty good. The codium is very dark. I suspect it will lighten up over time, but we'll see. I'm not sure I have a nice, natural-looking arrangement yet, but I'll try not to disturb them. I'll get pics shortly.


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 08:10 AM   #1277
Michael Hoaster
Registered Member
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,550



















__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 08:23 AM   #1278
vlangel
Registered Member
 
vlangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,793
Wow Michael, I love it. I think it looks amazingly natural and yet so beautiful. Your tank is really inspiring me to get to work on moving my system in that direction now that I am ending an era keeping seahorses.


__________________
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, ...and God sawthat it was good. Genesis 1:20 - 21

Current Tank Info: A 56 gallon (AIO) high nutrient macro algae/coral reef, a 30 gallon seahorse macro algae reef w/ 20 gallon sump
vlangel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 08:39 AM   #1279
Michael Hoaster
Registered Member
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,550
Thanks Dawn! I like the new plants. They do add to the natural look. Plus they are pretty unique looking, and add more green color to the mix. Hopefully they will thrive.


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 08:51 AM   #1280
vlangel
Registered Member
 
vlangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,793
Good luck with them. I too have found the green macro algae more challenging than the red.


__________________
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, ...and God sawthat it was good. Genesis 1:20 - 21

Current Tank Info: A 56 gallon (AIO) high nutrient macro algae/coral reef, a 30 gallon seahorse macro algae reef w/ 20 gallon sump
vlangel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 11:44 PM   #1281
Michael Hoaster
Registered Member
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,550
I had the Codium before and it did well for me but faded in summer. I've also kept the tufted joint before in v1. It did well but it got overgrown by other macros easily.

Speaking of challenging greens, the turtle weed is still doing well, since I moved the whole rock up into a hole in the back wall. It looks able to stand very bright light, because it's pretty high up.

It's been fun, being selective and getting the specific plants I like. It feels like the vision for this tank is approaching reality. WOO!


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 01:37 AM   #1282
Scrubber_steve
I'm really very likeable
 
Scrubber_steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Down Under
Posts: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster View Post
OK Steve, so I watched the whole video, "All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace - Episode 2 - The Use and Abuse of Vegetational Concepts". What did I think of it? I probably should take more time to digest it but I'll go ahead and take a stab at it.

One thing I found interesting was that the idea of Nature balancing itself became a sort of doctrine of underlying order, that was accepted without proof. "It was like the air", one scientist said. They just believed it. I think they got a lot of things right, like how different elements interrelate. But science got short circuited by feel-good concepts advanced by a few egotistical, charismatic scientists. Overall, the ideas were more idealistic and simplified than reality. A self-correcting, self-balancing Nature is a warm, fuzzy idea. It was depressing to see politicians abuse it to oppress populations. Also, I found the idea of 'Spaceship Earth' not far from my own ideas that Earth is like a very large aquarium!

Overall, I think it illustrates the folly of man, and a slice of time in scientific history. It's easy and perhaps unfair to criticize ideas of the past. What will future man think of our accepted scientific norms?

How does it relate to aquariums? I'm not sure, but I'll throw out some thoughts. We all try to reach balance in our tanks. But balance is in the eye of the beholder. A tank full of hair algae could be said to be in balance. So what we're really after is an idyllic model that stays in our own version of an idyllic state. But balance and perfection is fleeting. I have noted a few times in my aquarium-keeping history when my tank has 'peaked', and thought, "well it's all down hill from here." And it was! So, are all aquariums doomed to fail? I don't think so, but they will always need upkeep to maintain the ideal.

Scrubber steve, I'd like to hear your thoughts. Why did you post the vid? What point would you make that it supports?

I'd also like to hear from anyone else who watched it, and would like to weigh in.
Hey Michael;
I was prompted to post the vid by your oft mentioned “creating a natural ecosystem” & your intention of using the least amount of technology possible. Nothing wrong with that at all.

I found the vid interesting & thought you might too. I thought your analysis of it was spot on. The manufacturing of a theory to describe natural processes and the invention of the word ecosystem along with it, by corrupt scientists & engineers for personal gain. And then the misuse of the concept by whoever, including politicians (club of Rome).

The influence of this ill-gotten proposition that nature works like a machine, that there is a self-correcting balance, that nature’s course can be accurately predicted, & projected as a result of cause & affect - feedback perturbations.

It was the catalysis for theories such as Gaia. It created the concept that nature is weak & fragile, & that the Earth needing saving. And it was the beginning of what I call unhealthy Earth worshipping.

The same tactics are used today. Especially computer modelling for predictions of future natural physical states. The vid showed how Van Dyne’s model of a simple Colorado grassland became less able to be accurately simulated as more data was added. Supposed feedback loops that were inventions.
Van Dyne’s data was accurate as possible, not arbitrary. That, & his lack of intentional manipulation were his model's downfall. That & Chaos is unpredictable.

Your tanks looking great & you’ve done a great job on it by the way.

cheers

steve


__________________
Create a Concept & Reality Leaves the Room.

Current Tank Info: Algae scrubbed.
Scrubber_steve is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 12:10 PM   #1283
Michael Hoaster
Registered Member
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,550
Thanks Steve. It was definitely thought-provoking. I do enjoy the discussion! There's some interesting (new?) ideas about top predators and keystone species, and their previously unrealized influences on ecosystems, both on land and in the sea. The reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone illustrates what scientists call trophic cascade. It's amazing how quickly things changed. Here's a short video:

https://www.yellowstonepark.com/thin...nges-ecosystem

Thanks for the compliment on my tank. It's kind of an evolution of ideas I got from different books like Adey and Loveland's "Dynamic Aquaria", Tyree's "Environmental Gradient", and Walstad's "Ecology of the Planted Tank".

You may be amused to hear that this tank was originally an algae-scrubbed reef tank, about 17 years ago. Remember the Eco-Wheel? Yeah, I didn't think so. It was a large rotating paddle wheel design, driven by air bubbles. It worked OK, but it didn't generate the kind of surge and current I had hoped for. I had only modest success.

I'm much happier with this marine planted tank. It suits me better, and I like doing something different.


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 02:55 PM   #1284
Scrubber_steve
I'm really very likeable
 
Scrubber_steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Down Under
Posts: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster View Post
You may be amused to hear that this tank was originally an algae-scrubbed reef tank, about 17 years ago.

Remember the Eco-Wheel? Yeah, I didn't think so.
Yes can remember the wheel, but not particularly familiar with them. Didn't remember them incorporating the scrubber part, more a nitrifying filter?
Couldn't imagine them as effective as an algae filter.

Thanks for the vid link.


__________________
Create a Concept & Reality Leaves the Room.

Current Tank Info: Algae scrubbed.
Scrubber_steve is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 05:03 PM   #1285
Michael Hoaster
Registered Member
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,550
No, it was an actual scrubber, with a large CFL fixture on top. You may be thinking of the hang-on filters that incorporated a rotating, nitrifying filter on top.

Anyway, it worked OK, but I wasn't able to get the advertised flow characteristics. It perhaps led me down the direction I'm going these days.


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

Last edited by Michael Hoaster; Today at 05:18 PM.
Michael Hoaster is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ecosystem, food web, macro algae, planted tank, seagrass

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:24 PM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2020 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.