Sand Bed

[Arcar]

Hello,

I'm trying to figure out my sand bed. I hear deep sand beds are not a no-no, I hear 2-3" sand beds and make sure you clean little bit of the top during water changes, I hear you can do a shallow sand bed but your nitrates will rocket 1-
2 years down the road.

What is the best one? lol!

Im looking at this:http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...m?pcatid=16764

What would be the best route? Do I do a 2 or 3"?

Thanks!

[mcgyvr]

I would recommend you go with dry carib sea special grade reef sand and shoot for approx 2" and just leave it be and do no intentionally disturb it.. Get some nassarius snails and even a cucumber or other sand sifting creatures and just leave it be..

The sand you linked to is IMO too fine and may cause problems if you want to run decent flow in your tank..

Deep sand beds can be very beneficial... a 2-3" sand bed can also be very functional.. I do not agree that a sand bed of less that that will cause nitrate issues but it may not be as useful due to far less beneficial surface area and also being less likely to allow beneficial low oxygen environments..
I personally have never messed with my sand beds as far as vacuuming them

[billdogg]

Any of those options are viable. Does that help???

First, lets get definitions straight.

A Deep Sandbed (DSB) is generally thought of as being 4-6"+ inches of fairly fine sand and is a great way to help with nitrates and will provide a home to many beneficial organisms.

A Shallow Sandbed (SSB) is 3" or less (usually 1-2") and although it won't help much with denitrification, can still be home to lots of little creatures that help to increase biodiversity in your system and are a valuable part of your clean up crew (CUC)

Although a DSB can be very useful for nitrate reduction, I don't care for them in the main display simply because of all the space they take up that can be better used as swimming room for the fish and/or more room for corals. I used a DSB in a refugium when I kept a 4' Eel that was a very messy eater. The DT was 150g, the refugium was 120g with 6"+ of sugar fine sand, and I also had a 50g sump. Prior to putting it online, nitrates were consistently untestable due to their being way out of range even after 50+ gallon water changes. Within a month or so after it's beginning, nitrates were nearly undetectable, even going as long a 2 months without a water change.

To be useful/effective, the DSB needs to be fairly large in comparison to the DT. IMHO, putting a DSB in a small section of the sump is just a waste of time and effort, and will more likely cause more trouble than it's worth.

A viable option is a "remote" DSB that can be as simple as a 5g bucket 2/3's full of sand that is fepd from a small power head or manifold and allowed to overflow back to the sump. The downside to that is that not many want a 5g bucket full of sand in their living room. If you have a basement sump or fishroom so that it and the sump can be away from the DT it would be just fine.

Another option is a bare bottom tank. Personally, I don't care for them because I just don't think they look right, but that is just my opinion. There are many who swear by them.

My current 120DT has, if it were spread evenly, about 3" of fine sand. I have allowed it to be pushed around by the powerheads so that now, 4 years in, there are spots that have an inch or less, and other areas where it approaches 4-5". My Leopard wrasses love the deep part, where they sleep every night. The shallow areas are all near the front so there is plenty of room for corals and clams.

hth!

[Arcar]

Is this what you were talking about?
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...fm?pcatid=7326

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

I would recommend you go with dry carib sea special grade reef sand and shoot for approx 2" and just leave it be and do no intentionally disturb it.. Get some nassarius snails and even a cucumber or other sand sifting creatures and just leave it be..

The sand you linked to is IMO too fine and may cause problems if you want to run decent flow in your tank..

Deep sand beds can be very beneficial... a 2-3" sand bed can also be very functional.. I do not agree that a sand bed of less that that will cause nitrate issues but it may not be as useful due to far less beneficial surface area and also being less likely to allow beneficial low oxygen environments..
I personally have never messed with my sand beds as far as vacuuming them

[Arcar]

Thanks for the info: I have a http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...m?pcatid=30997

Should I put a deep sand bed in that refug? or do this coris block stuff and leave it bare? So many options.

Originally Posted by billdogg

Any of those options are viable. Does that help???

First, lets get definitions straight.

A Deep Sandbed (DSB) is generally thought of as being 4-6"+ inches of fairly fine sand and is a great way to help with nitrates and will provide a home to many beneficial organisms.

A Shallow Sandbed (SSB) is 3" or less (usually 1-2") and although it won't help much with denitrification, can still be home to lots of little creatures that help to increase biodiversity in your system and are a valuable part of your clean up crew (CUC)

Although a DSB can be very useful for nitrate reduction, I don't care for them in the main display simply because of all the space they take up that can be better used as swimming room for the fish and/or more room for corals. I used a DSB in a refugium when I kept a 4' Eel that was a very messy eater. The DT was 150g, the refugium was 120g with 6"+ of sugar fine sand, and I also had a 50g sump. Prior to putting it online, nitrates were consistently untestable due to their being way out of range even after 50+ gallon water changes. Within a month or so after it's beginning, nitrates were nearly undetectable, even going as long a 2 months without a water change.

To be useful/effective, the DSB needs to be fairly large in comparison to the DT. IMHO, putting a DSB in a small section of the sump is just a waste of time and effort, and will more likely cause more trouble than it's worth.

A viable option is a "remote" DSB that can be as simple as a 5g bucket 2/3's full of sand that is fepd from a small power head or manifold and allowed to overflow back to the sump. The downside to that is that not many want a 5g bucket full of sand in their living room. If you have a basement sump or fishroom so that it and the sump can be away from the DT it would be just fine.

Another option is a bare bottom tank. Personally, I don't care for them because I just don't think they look right, but that is just my opinion. There are many who swear by them.

My current 120DT has, if it were spread evenly, about 3" of fine sand. I have allowed it to be pushed around by the powerheads so that now, 4 years in, there are spots that have an inch or less, and other areas where it approaches 4-5". My Leopard wrasses love the deep part, where they sleep every night. The shallow areas are all near the front so there is plenty of room for corals and clams.

hth!

[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by Arcar

Is this what you were talking about?
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...fm?pcatid=7326

yes... The pictures make it look a lot coarser than it really is.. IMO its the perfect sand grain size.. Fine enough for any sand sifting creature but can usually tolerate quite a bit of flow in a tank before it starts to blow around..
In general that from my experience is the most commonly recommend sand around here.. Tropical Eden has some good stuff too but its typically not as easy to find as its distribution chain is much smaller than carib sea..

Note: it can take a bit to get a coating of bacteria on it which helps to "glue" it together so if you are having a small sandstorm in the beginning it may subside as that bacterial film develops on/in it..

[Arcar]

Ok, I like your plan

Also, do I have to clean it before putting it into the tank? Why would I buy live then rinse it all out?

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

yes... The pictures make it look a lot coarser than it really is.. IMO its the perfect sand grain size.. Fine enough for any sand sifting creature but can usually tolerate quite a bit of flow in a tank before it starts to blow around..
In general that from my experience is the most commonly recommend sand around here.. Tropical Eden has some good stuff too but its typically not as easy to find as its distribution chain is much smaller than carib sea..

Note: it can take a bit to get a coating of bacteria on it which helps to "glue" it together so if you are having a small sandstorm in the beginning it may subside as that bacterial film develops on/in it..

[Arcar]

Nm I guess thats not live lol..

What do you think about sand in a sump/refug?

[sde1500]

Originally Posted by Arcar

Ok, I like your plan

Also, do I have to clean it before putting it into the tank? Why would I buy live then rinse it all out?

Just put it in. After you add water it will be cloudy for a couple days. But you are cycling the tank still so nothing is really in it, so who cares?

[Arcar]

Thanks for your info, I believe thats a good start

What do you think about sand in a sump/refug?

Originally Posted by sde1500

Just put it in. After you add water it will be cloudy for a couple days. But you are cycling the tank still so nothing is really in it, so who cares?

[Arcar]

How many bags of http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...fm?pcatid=7326

[sde1500]

Originally Posted by Arcar

Thanks for your info, I believe thats a good start

What do you think about sand in a sump/refug?

I wouldn't add some just to add it. What are your goals/intentions for the sump/fuge?

Originally Posted by Arcar

How many bags of http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...fm?pcatid=7326

3-5

[homer1475]

3 to 5 in a 90 gallon? Those are 40# bags. I would only do 2.

[mcgyvr]

I would absolutely recommend rinsing it.
I just take it outside and plunge/stir the garden hose into the bag and let the cloudy water just pour our the top until it runs clear.. takes about 10 minutes per bag or so..
That or don't and you will likely have very cloudy water for quite a while and may need to run mechanical filtration to pull all the dust out..

I usually say about 1lb per gallon of water..
I used 2 x 40lb bags in my 80g tank and it got me around a 2" sand bed..
This site has a sand bed calculator here..
http://www.reefcentral.com/index.php...bed-calculator

[Arcar]

That calculator says 2 bags. Other sites say 4 bags

[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by Arcar

That calculator says 2 bags. Other sites say 4 bags

2 x 40lb bags sounds perfect to me for a 90g tank wanting around 2" depth..

As I said I used 2 x 40lbs bags in my 80G tank and was right around ~2" I believe (maybe a bit under.. I just eyeballed it)..

However gallons is not the best way to do that as its really the dimensional footprint of the tank thats important and you could have the same "footprint" in a tank thats much taller (and thus more gallons)

So.. assuming your tank is 48" side to side and 18" front to back then IMO 2 x 40lbs is just right.. (my 80g is 48 x 24" so your sand bed will be slightly thicker than mine)

[homer1475]

I just added 60# to my 80 cube(32x24x24) and I have 2 to 2 1/2". Looks just about right to me.

2 x 40# bags is just about right for your tank.

[Arcar]

I ordered 2 40lb bags! Thanks for the help

[Arcar]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

I would absolutely recommend rinsing it.
I just take it outside and plunge/stir the garden hose into the bag and let the cloudy water just pour our the top until it runs clear.. takes about 10 minutes per bag or so..
That or don't and you will likely have very cloudy water for quite a while and may need to run mechanical filtration to pull all the dust out..

I usually say about 1lb per gallon of water..
I used 2 x 40lb bags in my 80g tank and it got me around a 2" sand bed..
This site has a sand bed calculator here..
http://www.reefcentral.com/index.php...bed-calculator

I canceled my 90 gallon tank. I ordered a 120 48x25. I got 2 40lb bags for my 90. Should I get 1 more 40lb bag now? I will have a lot of dry rock in the tank.

[Nick30G]

Just filled up my 37g with 30 pounds of Bimini pink yesterday for a 2' sand bed. I did not rinse and the tank was not very cloudy at all. You don't have to rinse.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Nick30G]

Originally Posted by Arcar

I canceled my 90 gallon tank. I ordered a 120 48x25. I got 2 40lb bags for my 90. Should I get 1 more 40lb bag now? I will have a lot of dry rock in the tank.

Search up sand bed calculator. It will tell you how many pounds you need.

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[Arcar]

Seems like i need 1 more bag but ill have a lot of rock in the tank so i dont know if that counts for it.