DAS skimmer club - Page 2

USC-fan · 11/17/2007, 04:01 PM

I wouldn't feed the ex-2 off an OR. I use a mj1200 and it works great.

petedoc · 11/17/2007, 04:15 PM

I have about 300gal/hr flow through my mod version of EX-2, how much flow are the rest of you running through these things?

USC-fan · 11/17/2007, 11:22 PM

I using a mj1200 with the valve close a little bit....so maybe 225gph.

petedoc · 11/18/2007, 02:58 PM

It seems like that is the right amount of flow to, but has anyone studied this problem?

USC-fan · 11/18/2007, 03:40 PM

What problem? Do you want to run more water through the skimmer?

DarG · 11/18/2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by petedoc
It seems like that is the right amount of flow to, but has anyone studied this problem?

Problem? Any "problem" related to turnover through the skimmer can be remedied by adding a gate valve or expansion coupler to the output.

petedoc · 11/18/2007, 07:46 PM

The question is what is the optimal rate of flow through a recirc skimmer? Controlling the flow is another question. Putting 5gal/hr through probably wouldn't be a good idea, but neither is 5000gal/hr. So has anyone calculated, scientifically the optimal flow through these things or are we all just guessing?

dphins · 11/18/2007, 08:07 PM

1.5 times tank volume is what must people recommend.

reef2 · 11/18/2007, 08:16 PM

i dont under stand . i use the flow rate to adjust the skim wet or dry with air valves wide open. i use a mj1200 with the valve closed a bit. if i want wetter skim i open it up for drier i close it.

USC-fan · 11/18/2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by petedoc
The question is what is the optimal rate of flow through a recirc skimmer? Controlling the flow is another question. Putting 5gal/hr through probably wouldn't be a good idea, but neither is 5000gal/hr. So has anyone calculated, scientifically the optimal flow through these things or are we all just guessing?

Well this is really a personal preference, i adjust the flow so the water level is even to where the skimmer cup collects.

Quote:

Originally posted by reef2
i dont under stand . i use the flow rate to adjust the skim wet or dry with air valves wide open. i use a mj1200 with the valve closed a bit. if i want wetter skim i open it up for drier i close it.

i do the opposite. flow rate stays the same and adjust the air valve for wet or dry skimming.

reef2 · 11/18/2007, 08:23 PM

Quote:

[i]
i do the opposite. flow rate stays the same and adjust the air valve for wet or dry skimmer. [/B]

does it matter? i start with the water level right where the cup connects then up or down for wetter/drier.

USC-fan · 11/18/2007, 08:26 PM

not really, both should do the same thing really.

DarG · 11/18/2007, 08:30 PM

I dont think it's quite a guess. Most recircs seem to recommend 1X - 2X or 2.5X system volume per hour. It's a combination of reduced turbulence and increased contact time. But controlling the flow is not another question. It's tied directly into it. You cant put 5000 gallons per hour through a stock DAS EX-1 or EX-2. You cant put 1000 GPH through it and I doubt you could put 500 GPH through it although maybe that doable.

You are basically limited to a fairly narrow range of flow rates due to there being no control of output. If you increase flow you quickly get to a point of needing to reduce air intake to prevent overskimming and still, even with the air all the way off you reach an upper limit that is not very high. Anyway, cut off air too much in order to try and increase flow and you get to a point where you wont skim well because not enough air. If you open the air all the way you still have a bottom point to where you cannot decrease flow any further or it wont skim well. Those upper and lower ranges are fine as long as you work within them and are happy to work within them. And the skimmer should skim perfectly fine, maybe even optimally in most size systems, within them. But if you want to increase flow beyond the inherent limitation of the skimmer or decrease flow beyond those limits, (limits due to only having input flow control and air control) you cannot do so without adding a valve or other control mechanism on the output of the skimmer.

I immediately modded the output with a gate valve so Im not quite sure what the upper and lower limits are with a stock DAS.
DAS doesnt have any paperwork or information regarding exactly what flow rates they recommend or will handle on the upper and lower ends. They were designed based on an older Deltec design. The Deltecs have output flow control though. You can always find out for yourself by doing two things. Remove the air valves to run air all the way open and then adjust input flow to where the skimmer skims its best (your preferred skimmate color/consistency) and that is your lower flow limit which you can measure by timing the flow out of the output.
Then increase flow progressively and adjust air downward to the point where you reach a max flow with minimal acceptable air to still skim well (your preferred skimmate color/consistency) and you have reached your maximum flow limit which can be measured by timing how long it takes the outflow to fill a known volume.

If you want to increase flow or decrease flow beyond those limits ... put a valve or ther control on the output.

USC-fan · 11/18/2007, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by petedoc
The question is what is the optimal rate of flow through a recirc skimmer? Controlling the flow is another question. Putting 5gal/hr through probably wouldn't be a good idea, but neither is 5000gal/hr. So has anyone calculated, scientifically the optimal flow through these things or are we all just guessing?

well if you want to get really technical about this. The flow through rate should be based on a 2 min dwell time. There been a ton of debate about if this really does have the best performance.

I do not have my skimmer set up for this 2 min dwell time.

petedoc · 11/18/2007, 09:04 PM

Thanks for all the info, that is what I was looking for.

kdblove_99 · 11/20/2007, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nattydread
ANyone have orca make them an EX-1? Is the build quality signifigantly better?

I asked Shuan about that before i ordered the EX1 he said no way could they make it for that price. SO they just carry the EX1

kdblove_99 · 11/20/2007, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by reef2
i dont under stand . i use the flow rate to adjust the skim wet or dry with air valves wide open. i use a mj1200 with the valve closed a bit. if i want wetter skim i open it up for drier i close it.

That is exactly what i do also

Ding2daDong · 11/21/2007, 11:26 PM

Here is my ex-1 after 24 hours! Seems to work much better than my octopus200 with 0 heat from the pump!

This skimmate smelled soooo bad. Amazing skimmate for such a short period of time. I plan on tuning it for a little drier skimmate.

Enjoy!

-Matthew

petedoc · 11/21/2007, 11:59 PM

That is a thing of beauty!

carlos_fb · 11/22/2007, 12:28 AM

Matthew, that looks pretty good!

I thought you had ordered one of those deltec air valves.

USC-fan · 11/22/2007, 06:11 AM

Glad its working well for you!!!

Do you have any FTS?

tony13 · 11/22/2007, 07:34 AM

Ding2daDong your avatar cracks me up.

Ding2daDong · 11/22/2007, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by carlos_fb
Matthew, that looks pretty good!

I thought you had ordered one of those deltec air valves.

I did but Petorama.net didnt't send the deltec style one, they sent the stock DAS black one. They still have yet to send a call tag or charged my credit card soo.... I guess I have 2 DAS ex-1's now.

Quote:

Glad its working well for you!!! Do you have any FTS??

Here is a quick picture.

Quote:

Ding2daDong your avatar cracks me up.

LOL Thanks! I hear that alot.

-Matthew

flaco626nj · 11/22/2007, 12:47 PM

good man keep the pump its well worth it

warr40 · 11/23/2007, 01:38 AM

Hey my skimmer came a couple days ago...my 40B is still being built so mean while i hooked the skimmer up to my 20g bucket with LR in it. I have it running with a via-aqua 1800(480gph) feed pump which is clocked back quite a bit. My problem is i'm not sure on how to dial this thing in....i read your instructions in the DAS skimmer club thread but still having issues. I usually dial it in and the collection cup fills with foam in about 20-30 minutes. I'm also not sure on what levels the bubbles should be at for wet-dry skimming. And i'm also not sure on how to measure how many GPH i'm running threw my skimmer.

11/17/2007, 04:15 PM	#27
petedoc Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Lewiston Idaho Posts: 1,131	I have about 300gal/hr flow through my mod version of EX-2, how much flow are the rest of you running through these things? __________________ Charter member of the Trial and Error Club, when that doesn't work ask the stupid question here on RC to get an intelligent answer. Current Tank Info: 270Reef w/Chrysurus Angel,Vlamingi Tang, Atlantic Blue Tang, Dispar Anthias, Sargassum Trigger

11/18/2007, 02:58 PM	#29
petedoc Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Lewiston Idaho Posts: 1,131	It seems like that is the right amount of flow to, but has anyone studied this problem? __________________ Charter member of the Trial and Error Club, when that doesn't work ask the stupid question here on RC to get an intelligent answer. Current Tank Info: 270Reef w/Chrysurus Angel,Vlamingi Tang, Atlantic Blue Tang, Dispar Anthias, Sargassum Trigger

11/18/2007, 07:46 PM	#32
petedoc Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Lewiston Idaho Posts: 1,131	The question is what is the optimal rate of flow through a recirc skimmer? Controlling the flow is another question. Putting 5gal/hr through probably wouldn't be a good idea, but neither is 5000gal/hr. So has anyone calculated, scientifically the optimal flow through these things or are we all just guessing? __________________ Charter member of the Trial and Error Club, when that doesn't work ask the stupid question here on RC to get an intelligent answer. Current Tank Info: 270Reef w/Chrysurus Angel,Vlamingi Tang, Atlantic Blue Tang, Dispar Anthias, Sargassum Trigger

11/18/2007, 08:07 PM	#33
dphins Last place no more! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Godfrey, IL Posts: 3,165	1.5 times tank volume is what must people recommend. __________________ I work with a bunch of monkeys! Current Tank Info: 120 rr tank. Hamilton Cebu light fixture.. Apex controller. ATB 840 v1.5 skimmer. Lifereef calcium reactor with Geo 2nd chamber. Tunze 6100, 6105 and 6045. 40 breeder sump with eheim 1262 return. Pacific coast chiller...

11/18/2007, 09:04 PM	#40
petedoc Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Lewiston Idaho Posts: 1,131	Thanks for all the info, that is what I was looking for. __________________ Charter member of the Trial and Error Club, when that doesn't work ask the stupid question here on RC to get an intelligent answer. Current Tank Info: 270Reef w/Chrysurus Angel,Vlamingi Tang, Atlantic Blue Tang, Dispar Anthias, Sargassum Trigger

11/17/2007, 04:01 PM	#26
USC-fan Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,626	I wouldn't feed the ex-2 off an OR. I use a mj1200 and it works great.

11/17/2007, 11:22 PM	#28
USC-fan Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,626	I using a mj1200 with the valve close a little bit....so maybe 225gph.

11/18/2007, 03:40 PM	#30
USC-fan Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,626	What problem? Do you want to run more water through the skimmer?

11/18/2007, 08:16 PM	#34
reef2 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: michigan Posts: 639	i dont under stand . i use the flow rate to adjust the skim wet or dry with air valves wide open. i use a mj1200 with the valve closed a bit. if i want wetter skim i open it up for drier i close it.

11/18/2007, 08:26 PM	#37
USC-fan Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,626	not really, both should do the same thing really.

11/18/2007, 08:30 PM	#38
DarG Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,515	I dont think it's quite a guess. Most recircs seem to recommend 1X - 2X or 2.5X system volume per hour. It's a combination of reduced turbulence and increased contact time. But controlling the flow is not another question. It's tied directly into it. You cant put 5000 gallons per hour through a stock DAS EX-1 or EX-2. You cant put 1000 GPH through it and I doubt you could put 500 GPH through it although maybe that doable. You are basically limited to a fairly narrow range of flow rates due to there being no control of output. If you increase flow you quickly get to a point of needing to reduce air intake to prevent overskimming and still, even with the air all the way off you reach an upper limit that is not very high. Anyway, cut off air too much in order to try and increase flow and you get to a point where you wont skim well because not enough air. If you open the air all the way you still have a bottom point to where you cannot decrease flow any further or it wont skim well. Those upper and lower ranges are fine as long as you work within them and are happy to work within them. And the skimmer should skim perfectly fine, maybe even optimally in most size systems, within them. But if you want to increase flow beyond the inherent limitation of the skimmer or decrease flow beyond those limits, (limits due to only having input flow control and air control) you cannot do so without adding a valve or other control mechanism on the output of the skimmer. I immediately modded the output with a gate valve so Im not quite sure what the upper and lower limits are with a stock DAS. DAS doesnt have any paperwork or information regarding exactly what flow rates they recommend or will handle on the upper and lower ends. They were designed based on an older Deltec design. The Deltecs have output flow control though. You can always find out for yourself by doing two things. Remove the air valves to run air all the way open and then adjust input flow to where the skimmer skims its best (your preferred skimmate color/consistency) and that is your lower flow limit which you can measure by timing the flow out of the output. Then increase flow progressively and adjust air downward to the point where you reach a max flow with minimal acceptable air to still skim well (your preferred skimmate color/consistency) and you have reached your maximum flow limit which can be measured by timing how long it takes the outflow to fill a known volume. If you want to increase flow or decrease flow beyond those limits ... put a valve or ther control on the output.

11/21/2007, 11:26 PM	#43
Ding2daDong Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South Florida Posts: 2,723	Here is my ex-1 after 24 hours! Seems to work much better than my octopus200 with 0 heat from the pump! This skimmate smelled soooo bad. Amazing skimmate for such a short period of time. I plan on tuning it for a little drier skimmate. Enjoy! -Matthew

11/21/2007, 11:59 PM	#44
petedoc Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Lewiston Idaho Posts: 1,131	That is a thing of beauty! __________________ Charter member of the Trial and Error Club, when that doesn't work ask the stupid question here on RC to get an intelligent answer. Current Tank Info: 270Reef w/Chrysurus Angel,Vlamingi Tang, Atlantic Blue Tang, Dispar Anthias, Sargassum Trigger

11/22/2007, 12:28 AM	#45
carlos_fb Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 879	Matthew, that looks pretty good! I thought you had ordered one of those deltec air valves.

11/22/2007, 06:11 AM	#46
USC-fan Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,626	Glad its working well for you!!! Do you have any FTS?

11/22/2007, 07:34 AM	#47
tony13 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 588	Ding2daDong your avatar cracks me up.

11/22/2007, 12:47 PM	#49
flaco626nj Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: georgia Posts: 162	good man keep the pump its well worth it

11/23/2007, 01:38 AM	#50
warr40 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: long island Posts: 442	Hey my skimmer came a couple days ago...my 40B is still being built so mean while i hooked the skimmer up to my 20g bucket with LR in it. I have it running with a via-aqua 1800(480gph) feed pump which is clocked back quite a bit. My problem is i'm not sure on how to dial this thing in....i read your instructions in the DAS skimmer club thread but still having issues. I usually dial it in and the collection cup fills with foam in about 20-30 minutes. I'm also not sure on what levels the bubbles should be at for wet-dry skimming. And i'm also not sure on how to measure how many GPH i'm running threw my skimmer. __________________ ---click my red house to see my 40 Breeder reef--- Current Tank Info: 10g reef and 40B reef(pending)