Donovan's Nitrate Destroyer

[Subsea]

Originally Posted by djbon

Any carbon source or commercial bacteria food will do the job. With cost in mind, vodka will do the job without punching a hole on my wallet.

Don't use Tito's, it is handmade in Austin.

[djbon]

Originally Posted by Subsea

Don't use Tito's, it is handmade in Austin.

Better drink it for ourselves, let the bacteria enjoy the cheap one. Spoilt bacteria is bad bacteria

[dartier]

Originally Posted by jml1149

Instead of using straight Vodka, why not try something like Red Sea's NoPox?

... or the DIY NOPOX from the thread on here. Much cheaper than the name brand.

Originally Posted by djbon

About lights, I do feel total darkness is another key contribution to my success. Let somebody with the knowledge to chime in

The bacteria do not care if it is dark or light. However, keeping it dark will keep the cyano from growing inside your filter. So dark is better in this regard.

Dennis

[djbon]

Originally Posted by dartier

The bacteria do not care if it is dark or light. However, keeping it dark will keep the cyano from growing inside your filter. So dark is better in this regard.

Dennis

.

[gregkn73]

Originally Posted by djbon

Greg, post #42 your flow is 150 liter per hour . Currently my effluent output is 2 ml/second or 7.2liter per hour. Such low flow will give the bacteria enough time to consume nutrients from the water. About lights, I do feel total darkness is another key contribution to my success. Let somebody with the knowledge to chime in

I was sure some where ,I was wrong :-)

Originally Posted by dartier

... or the DIY NOPOX from the thread on here. Much cheaper than the name brand.



The bacteria do not care if it is dark or light. However, keeping it dark will keep the cyano from growing inside your filter. So dark is better in this regard.

Dennis

As I can see inside my reactor, the first layers of pumice, I don't have any cyano, just some diatoms at the beginning, but not now. Never the less, I have some spare black acrylic, so I can try to limit the light.

So I will reduce the flow, limit as I can the light and I will probably try diy nopox. Thanks both of you.

[djbon]

Hi Greg,

Is your chamber completely sealed?. If water flow from below, and open ended on top will exposed the top layer pumice with air.

[djbon]

Another good reading about light and nitrate processing factors by certain bacteria.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC106331/

[gregkn73]

Originally Posted by djbon

Hi Greg,

Is your chamber completely sealed?. If water flow from below, and open ended on top will exposed the top layer pumice with air.

It is an open top reactor. I never thought that oxygen diffusion ,contribute such a big proportion at total oxygen in the water!…... I am now thinking to just make your design and take out my diy reactor :-)

[dartier]

Originally Posted by djbon

Another good reading about light and nitrate processing factors by certain bacteria.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC106331/

That is interesting. So it would appear that light can slow down the conversion to nitrite for the bacteria used in this study. I am wondering if this photo inhibition applies to all the bacterial strains or just the ones they used.

Dennis

[djbon]

Originally Posted by gregkn73

It is an open top reactor. I never thought that oxygen diffusion ,contribute such a big proportion at total oxygen in the water!…... I am now thinking to just make your design and take out my diy reactor :-)

Looking forward to your reactor build and results. I am eager to know whether my design works for others as well.

[djbon]

Originally Posted by dartier

That is interesting. So it would appear that light can slow down the conversion to nitrite for the bacteria used in this study. I am wondering if this photo inhibition applies to all the bacterial strains or just the ones they used.

Dennis

Nitrogen bubbles was clearly visible when it exits via the effluent tube after 5 days in operation. I didn't expect to see any results that fast, as the rings and bio balls are fresh from LFS. The combination of carbon & bacteria dosing in total darkness must have contributed to my success.

[gregkn73]

Originally Posted by djbon

Another good reading about light and nitrate processing factors by certain bacteria.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC106331/

Originally Posted by dartier

That is interesting. So it would appear that light can slow down the conversion to nitrite for the bacteria used in this study. I am wondering if this photo inhibition applies to all the bacterial strains or just the ones they used.

Dennis

To understand it , because my English are not so good.....
In the article I read" at low light intensities, nitrite accumulated as a result of light inhibition of nitrite but not of nitrate reduction rates.*"

It is meaning that the denitrification

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denitrification

NO3−*→*NO2−*→ NO +*N2O*→*N2*(g)


Stops at NO2? So instead of N2, we just achieve more NO2?

[gregkn73]

Originally Posted by djbon

Looking forward to your reactor build and results. I am eager to know whether my design works for others as well.

I will try first to reduce the flow in my reactor, as much I can, and measure the outlet water for NO3. If I won't see any reduction, compared to the DT values, I will try yours.
So can you post some pictures of your actual denitrator. I would like to see how you make the inlets and outlets of water . Are they totally sealed? Also how did you connect the 2 tubes? I made all the PVC piping of my reef, but I am not an expert, and can not understand how did you connect the 2 tubes with the smaller PVC tube.

And some more questions for operation of it. Why did you have the outlet ,running in a sock? Do you run prefilter water in your denitrator? Did the materials in the first nitrification tube, needed any cleaning already? Do you run it inside your sump or outside? Did it ever clogged?

Sorry for the many questions Donovan, but I am really interested for your denitrator and considering to make it very soon :-) Thanks in advance.

[djbon]

Originally Posted by gregkn73

I will try first to reduce the flow in my reactor, as much I can, and measure the outlet water for NO3. If I won't see any reduction, compared to the DT values, I will try yours.
So can you post some pictures of your actual denitrator. I would like to see how you make the inlets and outlets of water . Are they totally sealed? Also how did you connect the 2 tubes? I made all the PVC piping of my reef, but I am not an expert, and can not understand how did you connect the 2 tubes with the smaller PVC tube.

And some more questions for operation of it. Why did you have the outlet ,running in a sock? Do you run prefilter water in your denitrator? Did the materials in the first nitrification tube, needed any cleaning already? Do you run it inside your sump or outside? Did it ever clogged?

Sorry for the many questions Donovan, but I am really interested for your denitrator and considering to make it very soon :-) Thanks in advance.

You can see the clear tubing inlet/outlet in the video i shared. Look at 1st page.

Q1 - effluent output is on filter socks mainly to reduce salt creep. Secondly, to catch bacteria bloom. Socks was covered with slime, a lot!.

Q2 - yes, the water going to the reactor must be filtered to minimize clogging.

Q3 - reactor has been running for more than 6 months and never being cleaned. Output flow is very consistent. No problem so far.

Q4 - reactor is sitting inside the sump. You can run it externally if sealed properly.

Q5 - no clogging so far.

Interconnecting the chamber via 3/4 bulkhead on both side, cut a short 3/4" pvc pipe to bridge both reactor.

[gregkn73]

Originally Posted by djbon

You can see the clear tubing inlet/outlet in the video i shared. Look at 1st page.

Q1 - effluent output is on filter socks mainly to reduce salt creep. Secondly, to catch bacteria bloom. Socks was covered with slime, a lot!.

Q2 - yes, the water going to the reactor must be filtered to minimize clogging.

Q3 - reactor has been running for more than 6 months and never being cleaned. Output flow is very consistent. No problem so far.

Q4 - reactor is sitting inside the sump. You can run it externally if sealed properly.

Q5 - no clogging so far.

Interconnecting the chamber via 3/4 bulkhead on both side, cut a short 3/4" pvc pipe to bridge both reactor.

Thanks again for your quick answers, but unfortunately in your video, I can only see the effluent flow, not the actuall connections of your clear tubing with the PVC chambers and how they are sealed. A pic will help me a lot.

[djbon]

Most of my diy equipment is left over item in my garage. I improvise most of them to suite my philosophy of "cheap but functioning", so do not laugh i.

I found a blue plastic tube that fits snugly with the clear tubing. I used it as a union connector so that I can remove the fountain pump for cleaning.

[djbon]

Using the same blue tubing, I drilled the input & output hole to fit the blue tubing tightly. Cut the blue tube roughly 1.5", fit into the holes. Cut clear tubing 2" and connect to blue tube inside the chambers. Cut another clear tubing to proper length and connect to the other end of blue tubing externally. Push both clear tubing so that both meets up with reactor chamber for a nice fitting. Inlet and outlet are now ready

[djbon]

To control the inlet flow, cut a piece of galvanized iron rod, bend it over in the middle all the way so that both side meets each other. Pull back a little bit to form roughly 5 degree angle. Works perfectly and cost me nothing

[gregkn73]

in any diy project I always try to use everything I can find in my basement and then go buy, what I don't have. But in a magical way, always increasing the " stock " I have, instead of decreasing :-)

Since I have a limited height of 60cm in my sump ,what do you thing of the following drawing. Don't laugh , I know how bad it is :-)


If you can increase something, will it be the length or width of your double chamber denitrator?

[djbon]

Looks fine to me but filling the chamber will be a challenge. With 60cm in height, I will use 90 degree elbow, create a "U" shaped chamber with combine length 130cm. If I have to rebuild mine, I will use this design as well. Still, in/out tubing must be in a different level.

[djbon]

"U" shaped version

[gregkn73]

Originally Posted by djbon

Looks fine to me but filling the chamber will be a challenge. With 60cm in height, I will use 90 degree elbow, create a "U" shaped chamber with combine length 130cm. If I have to rebuild mine, I will use this design as well. Still, in/out tubing must be in a different level.

In my drawing all the 4 chambers will have end cups at the top, the 2 in the middle , by using 2 of those



Why do you thing will be a challenge ,filling them? I am thinking using the 2 firsts ,for aerobic nitrification with bio rigs and other 2 ,filled with pumice for anaerobic denitrification. With 4 chambers, I am also thinking to add carbon, at the 3rd chamber, so only enhancing the anaerobic bacteria populations in pumice and avoiding bacteria slime at the 2 firsts chambers with bio rigs. My reef is 650lt net,so I think it is a good idea , to increase the total volume of your denitrator, from about 5,5 lt to 11lt by increasing the length , from 130cm to nearly 260cm,the water is moving in. What do you thing Donovan?

PS what programme do you use ,for those beautiful drawings?

[djbon]

Your design is okay. My suggestion is to make sure the middle chambers to be much lower than outlet level, probably an inch lower at the top point where the bridge is. This will ensure all media are covered in water all the time (gas buildup trap). I'm not sure why you wanted to add carbon?. You might need to tweak your flow rate a bit higher. Longer chambers is not necessary good, when carbon and nutrient are absent, if bacteria does exist at the farthest area, a different activity might take place. Just imagine when flow stops, after all nutrient has been used up, hydrogen sulfide is produced. But higher flow should eliminate this possibility.

[djbon]

The challenge i'm talking about is weight. With all media in it, weight might be a problem especially to manuever the denitrator into place.

[gregkn73]

Originally Posted by djbon

Hi Greg,
The addition of vodka is simply to feed those bacteria, without carbon dosing the process is too slow.

Originally Posted by djbon

Carbon dosing is essential in my design.

Originally Posted by djbon

. I'm not sure why you wanted to add carbon?. You might need to tweak your flow rate a bit higher. Longer chambers is not necessary good, when carbon and nutrient are absent, if bacteria does exist at the farthest area, a different activity might take place. Just imagine when flow stops, after all nutrient has been used up, hydrogen sulfide is produced. But higher flow should eliminate this possibility.

I wanted to add carbon because of yours 2 first comment's. Isn't it essential for speeding the denitrification?

I wanted longer chambers exactly for the reason you described....to process higher volume of water, by higher flow through the media.