Pacific Sun Pandora S VS Radion

[JordyRoo]

Hi guys & girls, without getting into the age old T5 vs LED argument...

I am currently using a Pacific Sun Pandora hybrid light, i am just wondering for colour pop & growth how does it compare against a couple of radions?

Im getting good growth on my SPS but not sure about colouration, Im running mixed reef.

140gal system.

Any suggestions ?

[jda]

The T5s in the hybrid have a wider spectrum than the Radion and should show a broader range of color except for the "black light effect." Are there not blues in your hybrid to get some "pop" and also to help with "black lighting?"

What kinds of colors are you looking for? Deeper, more saturated... or more vivid and more contrast between the colors. Even under the same lights, you can do either of these with nutrient levels... higher for more saturated and lower for more vivid & contrast.

Assuming that you have a nice mix of quality T5 bulbs, I would look elsewhere if you want different color. What are your tank specs and parameters?

[Przemek_PacSun]

Pandora Hyperion S have 9 independent channels which use even more LED colors than Radions(so it can mimic Radion light using different settings).
As JDA said - color depend not only from light - it's one from important factors but not most important (for me probably on 3rd place).
You need to take care about organic and proper corals feeding&supplementation (like proper potassium levels etc) - in other way you will not get good results even with the "best light" on market.
If the light would be only one, most important factor - every user with T5 bulbs(lamp) should have tank looking like TOTM ;-) (cause T5 are probably best light for corals...)

[HBtank]

I personally would get (at that range) enough top teir standalone LED modules and supplement with separate T5s to have more flexibility and the best of both.

[Big E]

Imo, all these hybrid commercial units and combo designs that people put together are flawed. The LEDs are in the center and not enough T5 bulbs are used.

You want a bright tank with top coloration for Acropora use a bank of T5s as the main source and the LEDs as supplementation.

As far as comparing Radions to any Hybrid combos the Hybrid combos will win out in coral coloration and visual appeal (brighter tank and pop of all colors without the windex bottle look)

[jda]

People bristle at me when I post this, but I agree with Ed. The "best of both worlds" is actually the "worst of both worlds." Using both is like having two quarterbacks... you really don't have one. Most folks would be better off just choosing and going all-in with one method.

[HBtank]

But he IS saying to use both.... just not from an “all in one package”. But I agree, focus on one main technology for the base of your system.

[Przemek_PacSun]

@jda
I think that everything depend from goals which you want to achieve.
If you are strongly focused SPS keeper - you can go with 8 bulbs lamp with 75W LED panels which will make your tank "living" not flat like under linear only T5 bulbs(where that T5 will be "main" light source).
If you want use T5 as additional supplementation(which will cover missed spectrums in LED panels) or you want to correct a little shadowing effect - you can go with 4 bulbs lamp and 145W led panels as main light source.
For some corals Led light dominated lamps will work perfect - for some other you need supplement them with T5(for proper and natural pigment built - a specially coming from GFP in range 490-500nm where many flouroproteins "wait" for proper light..
As I mentioned above - light is only one from many important factors. You can have perfect light - but without proper corals feeding and perfect water parameters - they will not grow or be still brown..
Light is easiest to "blame" factor... Im not saying that anybody here try to do that, but we strongly take care more abotu light than stable in long time alkalinity which is MORE important for proper corals growth and colors..

Regards

Przemek

[jda]

I run an additional Halide rather than use T5s over my reef. I don't see the need of having any T5s for spectrum, coverage or dusk/dawn, so I went 100% on Metal Halide and just use that wattage to run more of them. I am all-in on what I consider the best light for acropora.

Yes, of course, water parameters mater... but they never seemed to matter as much when people used better light. I just seems anecdotally that more people are having a hard time coloring up acropora, or seeing them suffer with minor swings than they did in the past before people cut spectrum and coverage.

[Przemek_PacSun]

I can agree that some basic facts needs to be fulfilled - proper cover, power, duration time etc.
I saw MANY tanks over-lighted by lamps "set for eye"...
You know - there is not the same amount "sugar in sugar" in hqi, t5 or Led ;-)
Metal halide are great - I can agree in 100% that they are doing their work properly.
Only cons are heat transfer, bulb replacement and not possible spectrum change(but sometimes its even pros cause often spectrum changes is asking fro troubles)..
There is no "gold recipe" how to have amazing tank with colorful acropora corals..
Water parameters, lighting and feeding(in proper order for me) are the key..

[Big E]

Commenting strictly about coloring Acroporas IMO----------

It's always the same mantra..........the nutrient levels are always brought up when a lighting system isn't proving to work well.............It comes off as an excuse.

Or the flat look excuse............not a single person has ever said to me my tank looks flat when they see it in person. There's nothing like MH shimmer...........LEDs alone flicker, I can't stand it, & it looks fake. but with LED and T5 combo it does come close to a MH shimmer look.

The hybrid combo also allows for a brighter tank, not that corals in a cave look........ overly blue and shaded.

I've tracked a lot of successful Acro tanks and they all fall in a ballpark range of---

P04-.02-.10
No3- .25- 5.0 occasionally up to 10.0

The ratio between the two is anywhere from 50-100 to one with NO3 being higher......sometimes up to 200 to one This is very easy to acheive for most reefers. There are some outliers but if you were to draw out a bell curve 90% fall in this range.

I didn't say hybrids are the best. I was responding in general to people who want to use hybrid setups that they work much better when the LEDs are supplemental and on the outsides angled in...........they are just for edge pop and ambient/visual reflective looks.

The spectral distribution of T5s will excite the pigments and get the most out of the corals and they can cover the whole range needed for any acro.

I don't use LEDs to supplement my T5s because I want a good mix of 400-460nm and no one offers this in strip LEDs.......... Most are all blue and narrow, for example, only 450nm.

I'm also convinced the life of the violet LEDs 400-420 suffer shorterm life. The domes blacken over time or they just plain go out. It's why I believe so many LED designs didn't/don't carry enough of them.

Recently, some of the well known brands....Orphek, Radion G4, Reefbreeders, not sure where PAC sun stands, started putting a lot more in their fixtures. They were too light on the 400-420 range(number of diodes in the fixture) for a long time and it's been overdue.

This is one reason why(speaking strictly about spectral differences) there can be a gap in successful coloring of acros.

With diffusers now being used it may only be a short time where coverage is the only issue left to close the gap between bulbs and LED. I’m waiting to see how things prove out though.

If you already have invested in LEDs as the main source, there's no question that T5 will add to making the corals color better and fill in shaded gaps and create a more appealing ambience.

I agree with Doug that there are plenty of stand alone MH setups that don't need supplementation. Sadly the options have dwindled down over the years as many great stand alone bulbs are discontinued.

I don't want to start a debate.......just wanted to clarify my comments and how I see it right now with coloring up acroporas.

[jda]

I agree with Ed that a lot of these are excuses, but most folks do not know that they are making excuses since they never had it any other way.

I have extra Halides laying around and there has only been one person who has borrowed some for a month, put them over their SPS tank (mostly acropora) and did not abandon their LEDs for T5 or MH soon afterward. They knew that they could no longer make any excuses when they saw what they saw in their own homes.

Przemek - I do think that there is a gold recipe to keep acropora tanks from a purely performance standpoint... bit of sand, good amount of phosphate free live rock, parameters close to seawater (they do not have to be perfect), T5 or MH lighting and changing some water... not too many fail with this. There is no need for any of the stuff that BRS tries to sell with their videos, but this does take patience... which people do not have in spades anymore. If your point is that there are many different ways to skin this cat, then that is true, but not very many of them are "gold."

[Przemek_PacSun]

@Jda
I agree with many arguments pointed by you and Big_E
Since 20 years in that hobby I always repeat one sentence to my Customers which ask me abotu "gold recipe for keeping colorful SPS corals"
I explain - do you know what mean SPS? SPS- Stability Promote Success ;-)

[JordyRoo]

Personally i dont think that the LEDs are spread out far enough in my opinion.

My params are

Temp - 25.8
Sal - 34ppt
Alk - 9.2
Cal - 450
Mag 1400
Nitrate - 2
Phosphate - 0.03
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0

Currently waiting on my results back from ATI & moving over to their suppliments.

I have bleached my highlighter acro colony, it is still growing with good polyp extention just no longer green just white. My other acros are happy with ok colouration but this was one of my best pieces.

Thought it was down to lighting. Literally only running at 35% LEDs.

[Przemek_PacSun]

Which hybrid you have? S2 with 75W panels or S with 145W?

[JordyRoo]

The Pandora S

[JordyRoo]

Do i possibly have the % up too high?

Whats the ideal distance from the surface of the water for the lamp?

[Przemek_PacSun]

How many panels you have?
On which power % setting lamp was working when you burn your acropora?
145W in LED's and additional T5 bulbs - it's a huge power coming out from the fixture...
There are two aspects very important - power and lighting period.
In other way there is simply way for troubles like photo-inhibition/photo-saturation effects...
Regards

Przemek

[JordyRoo]

Its the 4 x 39w T5 & the 2 x 145w LED unit. I have it on 35%



This is what it was like




Distance from water

[JordyRoo]

Photo period, i am running on of the set programs (fiji i believe)

[Przemek_PacSun]

You were using that settings when that aero was burned? Or now it's set on 35%?
For me that coral looks like burned by too much light...
From my personal experience the best settings for SPS corals is Bali or customized with 180 mins sunrise/sunset and lighting period for LED panels 9h and 11h for T5(red and orange set to 50%)...

[JordyRoo]

Would you suggest to drop the % of the LED light?

Is there an SPS specific schedule or just the bali program?

Are you saying i should run more T5 than LED?

[Przemek_PacSun]

I suggest following settings (custom)
Sunrise start : 11:00 am
Sunset start: 5:00 pm
Sunrise/sunset duration: 180min (so led panel will be off at 8:00pm and "full sun" will be at 2:00 pm)
All chanels power set to 100% - only red and orange to 50% (and maybe UV - if you want get effect "clearer water" - cause UV make water "cloudy" for eyes(start it as moonlight you will see ;-)
Overal lamp power - at 80%.
You must observe your corals, now when photoperiod was set not so good as it should - sometimes you need to wait several weeks for visible coloration/growth improvements ..
I like to observe Montipora corals - when they start growing "down" it mean that there is too much light(they should grow like "cup").

Regards

Przemek

[JordyRoo]

If my acros are bleaching at 35% surely at 80% it will kil everything off.

[JordyRoo]

What times would you have the T5s on & off?