Wooden stand questions

fishbox · 04/13/2018, 06:42 AM

This was asked by someone else on another forum but only got two responses with little explanation and I wanna be sure before I move forward.

The DP tank is an 80g rimless (48x24x16). It does have a bottom frame that has outside dims of 48 3/8 x 24 3/8.

If I build the stands frame to match those outside dims, and then skin it with 3/4 plywood, I'll end up with a 3/4" ledge around the tank. I'd like to avoid that ledge and have the total outside dims of the stand flush with the outside dims of the bottom frame of the tank. So I'm wondering if I could just subtract the thickness of the 3/4 plywood from the frame build so that after I add the plywood it ends up flush? My concern is that by doing it this way, the weight of the filled tank is now distributed to both the stands frame and the plywood.

Thoughts?

Sent from my Z956 using Tapatalk

Greybeard · 04/13/2018, 08:01 AM

The 3/4" Ply is likely stronger than the dimensional lumber you're using for a frame. What you plan is fine... I'd recommend gluing, sanding, and sealing the top so everything is flush and smooth, and should stay that way for a while.

fishbox · 04/13/2018, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greybeard

The 3/4" Ply is likely stronger than the dimensional lumber you're using for a frame. What you plan is fine... I'd recommend gluing, sanding, and sealing the top so everything is flush and smooth, and should stay that way for a while.

Would I be correct in the assumption that the plywood needs to be completely flush against the top and bottom of the stand so that there is no gaps? I would think that any gaps could cause a shift in the weight distribution.

Sent from my Z956 using Tapatalk

mcgyvr · 04/13/2018, 09:05 AM

You don't need a "frame" (assuming you meant 2x4s,etc...)
You can just build the stand with 3/4" ply only..
This is my stand for my Deep Blue 80G rimless..
Just plywood and 1by lumber all screwed together with the kreg pocket screws/glue..
I did double up on the front/rear 1by just because

The side sections are slide out storage..
The tank rests on the plywood..
I didn't even put a top on it (I did on the 2 side sections though).. I can see all of the bottom of the tank when I look inside the cabinet..
I added doors and the slide outs and voila..

Plenty strong like that..
For some reason I don't have a full "finished" shot.. But it got shaker style doors/pull outs,etc... to match the wood/doors in my house

fishbox · 04/13/2018, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

You don't need a "frame" (assuming you meant 2x4s,etc...)
You can just build the stand with 3/4" ply only..
This is my stand for my Deep Blue 80G rimless..
Just plywood and 1by lumber all screwed together with the kreg pocket screws/glue..
I did double up on the front/rear 1by just because

The side sections are slide out storage..
The tank rests on the plywood..
I didn't even put a top on it (I did on the 2 side sections though).. I can see all of the bottom of the tank when I look inside the cabinet..
I added doors and the slide outs and voila..

Plenty strong like that..
For some reason I don't have a full "finished" shot.. But it got shaker style doors/pull outs,etc... to match the wood/doors in my house

I was wondering if I could go with just the plywood. Thanks for chiming in. Do you have a build thread on that stand?

Sent from my Z956 using Tapatalk

mcgyvr · 04/13/2018, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishbox

I was wondering if I could go with just the plywood. Thanks for chiming in. Do you have a build thread on that stand?

No build thread..
Should be pretty self explanatory from the pictures alone..

Just a plywood box with holes cut for doors is all you need..
I really just started with 2 x 2'x4'x3/4" plywood sheets as the 2 ends then just a frame of 1x on the front to hide the plywood edges really and give a spot for the doors to mount,etc..
Typical cabinet construction for the most part..

and of course mans best friend the "Kreg pocket Jig"..
But you can do the same just face nailing the 1x material to the plywood edge and filling the holes..

fishbox · 04/13/2018, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

No build thread..
Should be pretty self explanatory from the pictures alone..

Just a plywood box with holes cut for doors is all you need..
I really just started with 2 x 2'x4'x3/4" plywood sheets as the 2 ends then just a frame of 1x on the front to hide the plywood edges really and give a spot for the doors to mount,etc..
Typical cabinet construction for the most part..

and of course mans best friend the "Kreg pocket Jig"..
But you can do the same just face nailing the 1x material to the plywood edge and filling the holes..

I was curious about the front and back as they looked to be 1xs but from what your saying is that it is in fact plywood with 1xs attached. I'm also wondering how many / how far apart to place the pocket holes. How tall did you make it?

Sent from my Z956 using Tapatalk

mcgyvr · 04/13/2018, 10:23 AM

oops.. I see where you could have gotten that the front/back is plywood.. Its not..
plywood is only the 2 sides all the rest is just 1x..

I think it was 36" tall..
I typically space my pocket holes around 1ft apart and just do 2 screws at each 1ft interval using both holes in the jog..

Lets see if this helps since I'm at work with my cad program.. I just whipped this up 2 sheets of ply and 1x4s
Thats all you really need..
the plywood is the green and I just colored the "inner" 1xs red so you could see them easier.. but the red and grayish pieces are all just 1x4s

and dimension as applicable so that the trim of the tank sits on what I've shaded "blue" in the second image..

I increased the 1x at the bottom (I think I used 1x6 there) so that it would hold more water should the sump "fail" and I have a bottom on it and siliconed all the joints so its watertight down there "just in case"
But this is just showing the basic concept to how you can make a stand that easily..

RobZilla04 · 04/13/2018, 10:38 AM

Another option:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2613836

Mine was done the way you described in your original post. Certainly not saying one way is better than the other. It's simply an option since you asked for them.

fishbox · 04/13/2018, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

oops.. I see where you could have gotten that the front/back is plywood.. Its not..
plywood is only the 2 sides all the rest is just 1x..

I think it was 36" tall..
I typically space my pocket holes around 1ft apart and just do 2 screws at each 1ft interval using both holes in the jog..

Lets see if this helps since I'm at work with my cad program.. I just whipped this up 2 sheets of ply and 1x4s
Thats all you really need..
the plywood is the green and I just colored the "inner" 1xs red so you could see them easier.. but the red and grayish pieces are all just 1x4s

and dimension as applicable so that the trim of the tank sits on what I've shaded "blue" in the second image..

I increased the 1x at the bottom (I think I used 1x6 there) so that it would hold more water should the sump "fail" and I have a bottom on it and siliconed all the joints so its watertight down there "just in case"
But this is just showing the basic concept to how you can make a stand that easily..

Man that helps a lot! Thanks for posting this.

Sent from my Z956 using Tapatalk

fishbox · 04/13/2018, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobZilla04

Another option:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2613836

Mine was done the way you described in your original post. Certainly not saying one way is better than the other. It's simply an option since you asked for them.

Thanks a bunch. These are some good options.

Sent from my Z956 using Tapatalk

Indymann99 · 04/14/2018, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishbox

I was wondering if I could go with just the plywood. Thanks for chiming in. Do you have a build thread on that stand?

Sent from my Z956 using Tapatalk

+1 just build a plywood box. All these 2x4 (and crazy 4x4) stands are so overbuilt and just waste space.

woodnaquanut · 04/16/2018, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indymann99

+1 just build a plywood box. All these 2x4 (and crazy 4x4) stands are so overbuilt and just waste space.

I agree with you but they do serve a purpose. For those who don't have the skills or tools to cut plywood straight, 2x4s are a good alternative.

4x4s are another matter. Totally the wrong lumber to use under any circumstances.

mcgyvr · 04/16/2018, 08:59 AM

Yes when one isn't confident in their own abilities or confident in any design/joinery method,etc... building way beyond what one thinks is safe is just fine..
For all hobby/amateur level stuff there is nothing wrong with a massive safety factor/overkill..

Now that all costs time/money/etc... in the real world but in a hobby.. Overbuild all you want.. Its likely not needed but if it helps you sleep at night.. Go for it..

The added cost/labor of an overkill here is nothing compared to the cost/labor should your stand fail..

fishbox · 05/11/2018, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

oops.. I see where you could have gotten that the front/back is plywood.. Its not..
plywood is only the 2 sides all the rest is just 1x..

I think it was 36" tall..
I typically space my pocket holes around 1ft apart and just do 2 screws at each 1ft interval using both holes in the jog..

Lets see if this helps since I'm at work with my cad program.. I just whipped this up 2 sheets of ply and 1x4s
Thats all you really need..
the plywood is the green and I just colored the "inner" 1xs red so you could see them easier.. but the red and grayish pieces are all just 1x4s

and dimension as applicable so that the trim of the tank sits on what I've shaded "blue" in the second image..

I increased the 1x at the bottom (I think I used 1x6 there) so that it would hold more water should the sump "fail" and I have a bottom on it and siliconed all the joints so its watertight down there "just in case"
But this is just showing the basic concept to how you can make a stand that easily..

Hey buddy... I'm gonna start my stand build next week and I'm just curious what material was the 1xs you used? HD has common board, pine, poplar, and oak. And they carry the pocket hole screw in fine threads and coarse threads. One is for hard woods and the other is for soft woods.

Sent from my Z956 using Tapatalk

mcgyvr · 05/11/2018, 05:46 PM

Since I painted mine I used pine board and pine is a soft wood so coarse screws are used..

fishbox · 05/11/2018, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Since I painted mine I used pine board and pine is a soft wood so coarse screws are used..

Thanks. Do you or anyone else know about the common board? Will it do and is it hard or soft? It looks like it would look better stained. But I haven't decided yet on paint or stained.

Sent from my Z956 using Tapatalk

mcgyvr · 05/11/2018, 06:14 PM

The common board is usually knotty/crooked crap with larger dimensional tolerances...
I personally avoid it for anything close to "furniture grade " needs...

Unless Im confusing the 2...It is friday and I havr started drinking

HD usually just has a few types of pine board ranging in price based on quality...I usually get the nice pine

davocean · 05/11/2018, 06:24 PM

If you plan to stain, just know that pine stains really weird sometimes, absorbs very unevenly, conditioner can be used and usually overcomes that.

Painted like Mcgyvers is no issue.

Personally for what you are doing, I would do birch ply if you plan to stain it.

I do agree w. woodnaught, nothing wrong w/ 2x and a little overkill, especially if you may be a newer or back yard DIY guy, but if you know what you bare doing, a step that can easily be skipped.

fishbox · 05/11/2018, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

It is friday and I havr started drinking

Me too my friend...... Meeee toooo lol

Sent from my Z956 using Tapatalk

fishbox · 05/11/2018, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davocean

If you plan to stain, just know that pine stains really weird sometimes, absorbs very unevenly, conditioner can be used and usually overcomes that.

Painted like Mcgyvers is no issue.

Personally for what you are doing, I would do birch ply if you plan to stain it.

I do agree w. woodnaught, nothing wrong w/ 2x and a little overkill, especially if you may be a newer or back yard DIY guy, but if you know what you bare doing, a step that can easily be skipped.

The only reason I'm wanting to go with the 1xs is because I'm pretty horrible at using my jig saw to cut nice openings for the doors. 1xs are extremely easy to cut with my miter saw and they leave me with a perfect opening for my doors

Sent from my Z956 using Tapatalk

davocean · 05/11/2018, 07:21 PM

Ah gotcha, well 1x is great and being a carpenter for a living that is what I would actually be doing for myself, and you'll actually have more material choices.

I'm a huge fan of African mahogany really, many of my builds have been that, but beech, alder, even poplar, others.

fishbox · 05/11/2018, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davocean

I'm a huge fan of African mahogany really.

That sounds that sounds fancy but HD hear in Ohio ain't that fancy lol

Sent from my Z956 using Tapatalk

davocean · 05/11/2018, 08:05 PM

Lol, I bet you gotta have a nice mill yard near, often it's actually even cheaper than hd, and better selection.

I like the african mahogany because it looks nice, but it's also priced nice for what it is, though that is my particular taste, not for everyone .

Our HD's over here have even been carrying it lately, yours might have that and other options.

Saw some walnut too, but that was not cheap

Indymann99 · 05/13/2018, 04:35 PM

Cabinet grade Poplar with "chocolate over cherry" 2 step stain.

******** async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8">

******** async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8">

******** async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8">

******** async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8">

******** async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8">

04/13/2018, 06:42 AM	#1
fishbox Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Youngstown, Ohio Posts: 358	Wooden stand questions This was asked by someone else on another forum but only got two responses with little explanation and I wanna be sure before I move forward. The DP tank is an 80g rimless (48x24x16). It does have a bottom frame that has outside dims of 48 3/8 x 24 3/8. If I build the stands frame to match those outside dims, and then skin it with 3/4 plywood, I'll end up with a 3/4" ledge around the tank. I'd like to avoid that ledge and have the total outside dims of the stand flush with the outside dims of the bottom frame of the tank. So I'm wondering if I could just subtract the thickness of the 3/4 plywood from the frame build so that after I add the plywood it ends up flush? My concern is that by doing it this way, the weight of the filled tank is now distributed to both the stands frame and the plywood. Thoughts? Sent from my Z956 using Tapatalk

04/13/2018, 10:38 AM	#9
RobZilla04 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 1,857	Another option: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2613836 Mine was done the way you described in your original post. Certainly not saying one way is better than the other. It's simply an option since you asked for them. __________________ 90g Mixed Reef

04/16/2018, 08:59 AM	#14
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Yes when one isn't confident in their own abilities or confident in any design/joinery method,etc... building way beyond what one thinks is safe is just fine.. For all hobby/amateur level stuff there is nothing wrong with a massive safety factor/overkill.. Now that all costs time/money/etc... in the real world but in a hobby.. Overbuild all you want.. Its likely not needed but if it helps you sleep at night.. Go for it.. The added cost/labor of an overkill here is nothing compared to the cost/labor should your stand fail.. __________________ Who me?

05/11/2018, 05:46 PM	#16
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Since I painted mine I used pine board and pine is a soft wood so coarse screws are used.. __________________ Who me?

05/11/2018, 06:14 PM	#18
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	The common board is usually knotty/crooked crap with larger dimensional tolerances... I personally avoid it for anything close to "furniture grade " needs... Unless Im confusing the 2...It is friday and I havr started drinking HD usually just has a few types of pine board ranging in price based on quality...I usually get the nice pine __________________ Who me?

04/13/2018, 08:01 AM	#2
Greybeard Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Buffalo, MO Posts: 651	The 3/4" Ply is likely stronger than the dimensional lumber you're using for a frame. What you plan is fine... I'd recommend gluing, sanding, and sealing the top so everything is flush and smooth, and should stay that way for a while.

05/11/2018, 06:24 PM	#19
davocean Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,655	If you plan to stain, just know that pine stains really weird sometimes, absorbs very unevenly, conditioner can be used and usually overcomes that. Painted like Mcgyvers is no issue. Personally for what you are doing, I would do birch ply if you plan to stain it. I do agree w. woodnaught, nothing wrong w/ 2x and a little overkill, especially if you may be a newer or back yard DIY guy, but if you know what you bare doing, a step that can easily be skipped. __________________ There's a fine line between owning your tank and your tank owning you! Current Tank Info: SCA 120g RR Starfire, Tunze silence 1073.02 return, 40g sump w/ fuge, SWC Extreme 160 cone skimmer,Geismann reflexx 4xT5, 2x Panorama Pro LED strips, Vortech MP40QD

05/11/2018, 07:21 PM	#22
davocean Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,655	Ah gotcha, well 1x is great and being a carpenter for a living that is what I would actually be doing for myself, and you'll actually have more material choices. I'm a huge fan of African mahogany really, many of my builds have been that, but beech, alder, even poplar, others. __________________ There's a fine line between owning your tank and your tank owning you! Current Tank Info: SCA 120g RR Starfire, Tunze silence 1073.02 return, 40g sump w/ fuge, SWC Extreme 160 cone skimmer,Geismann reflexx 4xT5, 2x Panorama Pro LED strips, Vortech MP40QD

05/11/2018, 08:05 PM	#24
davocean Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,655	Lol, I bet you gotta have a nice mill yard near, often it's actually even cheaper than hd, and better selection. I like the african mahogany because it looks nice, but it's also priced nice for what it is, though that is my particular taste, not for everyone . Our HD's over here have even been carrying it lately, yours might have that and other options. Saw some walnut too, but that was not cheap __________________ There's a fine line between owning your tank and your tank owning you! Current Tank Info: SCA 120g RR Starfire, Tunze silence 1073.02 return, 40g sump w/ fuge, SWC Extreme 160 cone skimmer,Geismann reflexx 4xT5, 2x Panorama Pro LED strips, Vortech MP40QD

05/13/2018, 04:35 PM	#25
Indymann99 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,447	Cabinet grade Poplar with "chocolate over cherry" 2 step stain. ****** async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"> **** async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"> **** async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"> **** async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"> ****** async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"> __________________ 120g DT 100lbs LR / 200 lbs LS, 45g fuge, VectraM1 Return, Herbie drain, 4x RW-8, 2x AI Hydra 26 w AWM, ASM G2, Apex controller, Apex BoB w floats ATO