Next step in reefkeeping

Turf Plumber · 08/21/2019, 06:12 PM

Hi all. I started my aquarium june last year so it's been up a little over a year. I built all my filtration so it's been a year of fine tuning, changing my mind about things, and learning the hard way and I've gotten to the point where the tank is pretty stable. I went through months of battling green hair algae, a couple brief bouts of dynos, and other general nastiness before figuring out what works well. Now I've got it staying clean on it's own, with nitrates and phosphate undetectable on the API tests. (Need to take a sample to LFS to get more accurate numbers.) But anyway, I've kept anomenes and some easy corals with success and I'm ready to move up a little on the difficulty level, but not sure how to get started with maintaining nutrient levels beyond the basics. I have an ato with a small pump and I wonder if it would be safe to use a weak kalkwasser mix with that or if it would raise the pH too fast. Also I'm not sure what else I need to be testing and measuring. I'd like to have some monti caps, that's probably the most difficult thing I'm willing to try at the moment. I've heard they aren't too demanding for SPS. Maybe there are some resources someone could link for this type of step up in my maintenance routine? Dont want to go crazy just ready to try out some new things. Thanks in advance.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

mcgyvr · 08/22/2019, 04:39 AM

You want to start testing alk/cal/mag and learning how to maintain them and keep the numbers as stable as possible..

If they start trending down then you would look into dosing by using kalk or other 2 part solutions. Part of that is calculating your daily consumption rate and adding just enough to keep the parameters stable..

As for nutrients like nitrates/phosphates you just want a bit of those. Typically nitrate levels of like 1-3ppm is good and phosphate of .08ppm or less is suitable..
Just like fertilizer for your lawn too little and you have problems.. too much and you have problems..

Quite a few good articles here..
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/subject/index.php

Turf Plumber · 08/22/2019, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

You want to start testing alk/cal/mag and learning how to maintain them and keep the numbers as stable as possible..

If they start trending down then you would look into dosing by using kalk or other 2 part solutions. Part of that is calculating your daily consumption rate and adding just enough to keep the parameters stable..

As for nutrients like nitrates/phosphates you just want a bit of those. Typically nitrate levels of like 1-3ppm is good and phosphate of .08ppm or less is suitable..
Just like fertilizer for your lawn too little and you have problems.. too much and you have problems..

Quite a few good articles here..
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/subject/index.php

Thank you. So assume at this point the rest of the nutrients will be replenished sufficiently by water changes for now?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

mcgyvr · 08/22/2019, 08:07 AM

Yes until you get a bunch of corals most tanks can be kept stable with water changes alone..
You dose when water changes aren't enough and you don't want to increase the amount of water changes..

reefteaser · 08/23/2019, 08:50 AM

Just adding my .02, I completely agree to use water changes while you can to keep things stable. When it’s needed, consider a doser to make your life easier, even if you decide on using kalk. If you add it to your ATO water it will simplify things, but eventually you’ll need to drain and clean it, and your pump life will shorten. If you’re successful in the long term, the kalk will not be sufficient and you’ll have to dose calcium/alkalinity, or two part anyway to supplement or replace it.
Personally I think a kalk reactor is overkill. I’d go with adding into the ATO if you’re using one, or better yet, use the doser. Way cheaper to clean or replace some tubing than an ATO pump, and certainly more precise and easily adjusted.
I started a second, smaller Nuvo30L in my office. I’m to the point of dosing kalk, supplemented by dosing 2-part, and managing Mg with water changes, and a very occasional addition. A good doser and an ATO make reefing SO much easier, I don’t consider them optional for most tanks except maybe a Pico.
Just my opinion, and they do vary.

reefteaser · 08/23/2019, 09:05 AM

One more thing, consider looking for some cheap $5-10 Frags sold by many local stores. I think it’s a good way to see what might work. Try a branching motipora, acropora, stylophora, or even a seriatopora (birdsnest). Most of the “bargain bin” may be polyps or softies, but keep looking. You might even find someone to frag off a piece from a display tank.
Growing them is part of the fun!

hkgar · 08/23/2019, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turf Plumber

(Need to take a sample to LFS to get more accurate numbers.)

I would recommend the following for test kits:
Mag and Calcium, Salifert
Alkalinity, Hanna Checker
Phosphate, Hanna Checker Phosphorus Ultra Low Range Colorimeter
Nitrate, Red Sea Pro

Everybody has their favorites, those are mine.

Your LFS won't give any better results. They most all use the same test kits that we use.

Turf Plumber · 08/24/2019, 08:30 AM

Thanks for the input everyone. The algae scrubber i built is working so well already that I was hoping I could eventually go without water changes, a la Triton or something like that. I guess I'm wondering if it's cheaper to use the reef salt to replenish nutrients while the demand is low, or if it's worth working toward dosing only?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

CAPT_Dave · 08/24/2019, 10:17 AM

Summarizing mcgyvr's post,
- Start testing Alk, Ca, and Mag. (Keep a log and chart results over time so you can see the trend).
- Start dosing Alk and Ca when they start to fall. (I would start with kalk. I've been using it in my ATO for about 4 years on a 120 gallon mixed reef. I needed to supplement with 2 part for a while but then things filled in and growth slowed and I'm back to just kalk. Really cheap, really easy, and it works).

A few more tips
- Mg gets used more slowly so you can bulk dose that about once a month or so as tests indicate.
- Use Randy Holmes Farley's calculator to figure out how much. Google it. It's all over the web and is included in some nice apps on the App store and Google play.
- Do not dose anything you're not testing.
- You do not need to dose nutrients (NO3 and PO4). Just feed a little more if they are constantly low AND you don't have algae growth. Algae uses them up and you'll see low levels in the water but the algae has it and will release it back as it dies.

You're tank will go through lots of uglies in the first year or so. It's normal. Don't worry. The microbes are fighting for dominance. If you keep clean water with good parameters and stay with it for a year the good denitrifying bacteria will win out and help you keep the tank stable for years after.

Get a good cleanup crew but don't buy hundreds in a Clean Up crew pack. They'll clean up, then starve, die, and rot and you'll need a clean up crew for them. A few trocus snails and some fire shrimp a great. Trocus snails can right themselves when they fall off the glass and will bread in your tank, which is really cool. I also really like conchs.

Good luck and keep going.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

08/21/2019, 06:12 PM	#1
Turf Plumber Registered Member Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 13	Next step in reefkeeping Hi all. I started my aquarium june last year so it's been up a little over a year. I built all my filtration so it's been a year of fine tuning, changing my mind about things, and learning the hard way and I've gotten to the point where the tank is pretty stable. I went through months of battling green hair algae, a couple brief bouts of dynos, and other general nastiness before figuring out what works well. Now I've got it staying clean on it's own, with nitrates and phosphate undetectable on the API tests. (Need to take a sample to LFS to get more accurate numbers.) But anyway, I've kept anomenes and some easy corals with success and I'm ready to move up a little on the difficulty level, but not sure how to get started with maintaining nutrient levels beyond the basics. I have an ato with a small pump and I wonder if it would be safe to use a weak kalkwasser mix with that or if it would raise the pH too fast. Also I'm not sure what else I need to be testing and measuring. I'd like to have some monti caps, that's probably the most difficult thing I'm willing to try at the moment. I've heard they aren't too demanding for SPS. Maybe there are some resources someone could link for this type of step up in my maintenance routine? Dont want to go crazy just ready to try out some new things. Thanks in advance. Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

08/22/2019, 04:39 AM	#2
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	You want to start testing alk/cal/mag and learning how to maintain them and keep the numbers as stable as possible.. If they start trending down then you would look into dosing by using kalk or other 2 part solutions. Part of that is calculating your daily consumption rate and adding just enough to keep the parameters stable.. As for nutrients like nitrates/phosphates you just want a bit of those. Typically nitrate levels of like 1-3ppm is good and phosphate of .08ppm or less is suitable.. Just like fertilizer for your lawn too little and you have problems.. too much and you have problems.. Quite a few good articles here.. http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/subject/index.php __________________ Who me?

08/22/2019, 08:07 AM	#4
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Yes until you get a bunch of corals most tanks can be kept stable with water changes alone.. You dose when water changes aren't enough and you don't want to increase the amount of water changes.. __________________ Who me?

08/23/2019, 08:50 AM	#5
reefteaser Convince'em or confuse'em Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: S FL Posts: 341	Just adding my .02, I completely agree to use water changes while you can to keep things stable. When it’s needed, consider a doser to make your life easier, even if you decide on using kalk. If you add it to your ATO water it will simplify things, but eventually you’ll need to drain and clean it, and your pump life will shorten. If you’re successful in the long term, the kalk will not be sufficient and you’ll have to dose calcium/alkalinity, or two part anyway to supplement or replace it. Personally I think a kalk reactor is overkill. I’d go with adding into the ATO if you’re using one, or better yet, use the doser. Way cheaper to clean or replace some tubing than an ATO pump, and certainly more precise and easily adjusted. I started a second, smaller Nuvo30L in my office. I’m to the point of dosing kalk, supplemented by dosing 2-part, and managing Mg with water changes, and a very occasional addition. A good doser and an ATO make reefing SO much easier, I don’t consider them optional for most tanks except maybe a Pico. Just my opinion, and they do vary. Last edited by reefteaser; 08/23/2019 at 09:08 AM. Reason: Spelling/grammar

08/24/2019, 10:17 AM	#9
CAPT_Dave Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: San Diego Posts: 157	Summarizing mcgyvr's post, - Start testing Alk, Ca, and Mag. (Keep a log and chart results over time so you can see the trend). - Start dosing Alk and Ca when they start to fall. (I would start with kalk. I've been using it in my ATO for about 4 years on a 120 gallon mixed reef. I needed to supplement with 2 part for a while but then things filled in and growth slowed and I'm back to just kalk. Really cheap, really easy, and it works). A few more tips - Mg gets used more slowly so you can bulk dose that about once a month or so as tests indicate. - Use Randy Holmes Farley's calculator to figure out how much. Google it. It's all over the web and is included in some nice apps on the App store and Google play. - Do not dose anything you're not testing. - You do not need to dose nutrients (NO3 and PO4). Just feed a little more if they are constantly low AND you don't have algae growth. Algae uses them up and you'll see low levels in the water but the algae has it and will release it back as it dies. You're tank will go through lots of uglies in the first year or so. It's normal. Don't worry. The microbes are fighting for dominance. If you keep clean water with good parameters and stay with it for a year the good denitrifying bacteria will win out and help you keep the tank stable for years after. Get a good cleanup crew but don't buy hundreds in a Clean Up crew pack. They'll clean up, then starve, die, and rot and you'll need a clean up crew for them. A few trocus snails and some fire shrimp a great. Trocus snails can right themselves when they fall off the glass and will bread in your tank, which is really cool. I also really like conchs. Good luck and keep going. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk __________________ Dave Current Tank Info: 120 g mixed reef

08/23/2019, 09:05 AM	#6
reefteaser Convince'em or confuse'em Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: S FL Posts: 341	One more thing, consider looking for some cheap $5-10 Frags sold by many local stores. I think it’s a good way to see what might work. Try a branching motipora, acropora, stylophora, or even a seriatopora (birdsnest). Most of the “bargain bin” may be polyps or softies, but keep looking. You might even find someone to frag off a piece from a display tank. Growing them is part of the fun!

08/24/2019, 08:30 AM	#8
Turf Plumber Registered Member Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 13	Thanks for the input everyone. The algae scrubber i built is working so well already that I was hoping I could eventually go without water changes, a la Triton or something like that. I guess I'm wondering if it's cheaper to use the reef salt to replenish nutrients while the demand is low, or if it's worth working toward dosing only? Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk