JBJ 28 Gallon Nano Owners Club

JohnL · 06/22/2009, 08:36 AM

This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...7#post15236537

sl-atl · 06/22/2009, 08:36 AM

Good luck! I think knowing the source of the problem is most of the battle.

I had a pencil urchin that was really tough on the algae, but moved it out of the DT since it also was very effective at re-arranging the rock work! I could actually see the white trail it left behind as it grazed across the rocks.

breeze · 06/22/2009, 08:41 AM

Yeah, second split!

SlvrSurfRidr · 06/22/2009, 11:35 AM

cheers to the double split!

super six 5 · 06/27/2009, 03:55 PM

The addition of the Vortech MP20 has helped me a bunch. I'm seeing less algae and my skimmer seems to be pulling more garbage from the water. :-)

BradHall · 06/27/2009, 06:55 PM

This is just a comment on my latest upgrade. I recently purchased a 1/10th jbj chiller along with a aquac remora with a 1200. Since then I noticed my factory pumps working with less pressure so I now upgraded the factory 2 powerheads to two maxijet 1200's and also added a maxijet 1200 with the suregrip inside the bottom rear of the tank and in my opinion it is almost perfect flow, by the way I also took out the wavemaker so all the pumps run constantly and my tank looks so much cleaner in just one week and the corals have started to open up more even.

ibarrag · 07/02/2009, 08:00 AM

Hey guys -- New to RC and this thread. Read the first 50 pages or so and have been impressed with the level of expertise, results and most importantly the helpfulness of the posters. So, I've decided to seek help here. I've had my 28 HQI for about a month. I bought it from another hobbyist and it was "established". I took his tank, water, live rock and about two inches of live sand. When I set it up at home, I did a 50% water change and ammonia, PH, nitrite were all OK. Nitrates were high, but I figured they would eventually come down. I began to stock it with a cleaning crew, more live rock, a couple of fish and some small frags (all over about a month's time). I've made about five or six 20% water changes over that month and nitrates are still through the roof! The livestock seems fine and even thriving, but these nitrate levels are a constant worry. I'm beginning to suspect the sand bed is the culprit cause I can't think of any other reason my frequent water changes aren't lowering nitrates. I'm thinking of establishing a refug with chaeto in my center compartment and upgrading my standard skimmer. I've also thought that I may have to take out the sand. Any thoughts from some of you more experienced reefers? Sorry for the long post.

G

breeze · 07/02/2009, 08:20 AM

Exactly how high are your nitrates?

Your sand bed could be the problem. They are supposed to help with nitrates but the stirring up from the move may have released nitrates into the water. Plus, I'm sure there was some die off of stuff on the live rock, causing a mini cycle in the aquarium. I have never been a fan of sand beds. I used to run bare bottom in the 90's before it became more popular and they were always successful. I currently have a very shallow sand bed for the look right now which I regularly siphon with a gravel cleaner during water changes.
Sand beds require frequent stirring by snails and other creatures for them to be successful.
I would suggest continuing the water changes, removing some sand slowly with each change. Make sure there is nothing dead or areas collecting dirt in the tank or in the filter compartment (eg under live rock (blow out with turkey baster), dirty sponges in the back, etc.). Also, try to add a powerhead or two in the display for more flow to keep thinks suspended. Consider adding the refugium as you are doing or a better skimmer.
Good luck, let us know how it goes.

ibarrag · 07/02/2009, 08:55 AM

Thanks for the quick reply Breeze. My dilemma is that despite the outrages nitrate levels (80 - 100), the livestock seems unaffected and even thriving. I worry about an catastrophic crash though. I have a Diamond Goby who sifts the sand thoroughly and quite a few burrowing snails, so the sand is moved a lot now. I have a Koralia 1 shooting a stream across the tank and thinking of adding a second one (or a mod'd Maxi-Jet 1200) aimed at the back to eliminate any dead spots. I'm using the stock return pumps and a Maxi-Jet 1200 to power the chiller, so flow seems adequate. Adding a refug with chaeto and a better skimmer (may opt for the HOB refug/skimmer) should help. Removing or partially removing the sand is an option, but I'm hesitant to do that right away cause of the stress to the livestock, especially the Diamond, and cause it's a lot of work. At this point and as long as the livestock seem fine, maybe I should continue with the water changes, the mentioned mods and keep hoping for better nitrate levels. I just don't want the entire tank to crash. Thoughts? Thanks in advance.

G

breeze · 07/02/2009, 10:04 AM

If everything is doing well, I wouldn't make any sudden changes. You would be more likely to precipitate a crash that way. I think you are right, cont the water changes and add the refugium/skimmer.
Are you having algae outbreaks? Are you sure the nitrates are really that high? Have you had someone else confirm it with another test?

ibarrag · 07/02/2009, 10:42 AM

I've got some algae, but seems normal -- nothing the various snails and crabs can't handle. The thought did cross my mind that perhaps the nitrate test kit was faulty. I'm using an API Master Test Kit, but I got it from the guy I bought the cube from, so don't really know how old it is or other things that may effect it's accuracy. I'm going to buy some test strips to double check, or take a sample to the LFS. I agree that it's best not to make any sudden and profound changes. Guess I'll go slow (as long as things are OK otherwise) and stay the course and hope for the best. Thanks again for listening and your advise.

G

spook8282 · 07/03/2009, 08:29 AM

For those of you running the actinic upgrade what light schedule are you using? Thanks, Jeff

Chemistry Guy · 07/03/2009, 08:42 PM

I'm proud to say that I am a new member of the HQI nano-cube club!

I was wondering about foregoing the skimmer all-together like some of you are doing. Do you worry about the lack of aeration?

sl-atl · 07/03/2009, 11:09 PM

ibarrag, I would bet that your kit is the problem since your livestock is doing so well. I had a false-positive problem with an ammonia test kit- caused some unnecessary heartburn!
Chem. Guy, what livestock are you keeping? If you have SPS or a large bioload I wouldn't forgo a skimmer- just my .02.

ibarrag · 07/04/2009, 07:56 AM

sl-atl, thanks for your input. I forgot to mention that I did a test, using the same kit, on a batch of new water I bought at the LFS before I used it to do a 25% water change. The test showed zero nitrates in the new water. I'm still not convinced I'm not getting a false-positive though, and am going to get the test strips to do a quick verification test. Meanwhile, I did a 25% water change yesterday and nitrates are still through the roof

G

Chemistry Guy · 07/04/2009, 08:26 AM

Thanks for the advice sl-atl, I do plan on keeping several SPS, so I'll keep the skimmer in.

Going along with ibarrag's question, how long to test kits generally stay good? I have some that are several years old and it's clear that the chemicals have started crystallizing out of solution. Do you think these can even give me a ball-park figure or just trash them?

sl-atl · 07/04/2009, 09:41 AM

I would trash them, personally, unless they include reference tests that you can use to verify the reagents are still good. Cost of test kits vs. cost of livestock.

Kamao · 07/04/2009, 10:25 AM

Any tips on how to remove the false wall?

odiest · 07/06/2009, 07:53 PM

I did the lighting upgrade back in Jan. and I have the pc's come on 1/2 hour before my main light and stay on for a 1/2 hour after. I leave the metal halide on for 7.5 hours.

David

jpweber · 07/07/2009, 07:01 AM

kamao, the false wall should come out pretty easy, just take a razor blade and run it along the sides where it is siliconed onto the tank. It should just pull right off. Mine came out when i filled the back up with water a little faster than the front, so i wouldn't think it would take to much.

spook8282 · 07/07/2009, 02:14 PM

For some reason in this tank im having the hardest time keeping acropora. My Red Planet seems to be fine but has lost all of the green base. All water parameters are good. My Nitrate could be a little lower but isnt to high. About 5-10ppm. 0 phosphate, 450 calcium, 8-12 DKH, 1300, Magnisium. Is the light on this tank not strong enough. Ive been running a 20k XM bulb now for the last 4 months with the actinic upgrade. Halides on for 6 hours, and actinics 1hr before and after. Any ideas why My Acro isnt liking it in there. Its pretty high in the tank as well. Thanks, Jeff

breeze · 07/07/2009, 08:05 PM

How long has the tank set up? Acropora need stability. My acros have been really coloring up since I changed to a 20K radium. Make sure your alk is rock stable.

jpweber · 07/08/2009, 06:06 AM

Yea i am having the same problem with my acros, the color isnt great and growth is slow. They are healthy it seems good polyp extension and the tissue looks good but the growth is painfully slow. I am still running the stock bulb though, thats my next change is gettting something else, was looking at a pheonix 14k.

Kamao · 07/08/2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jpweber
kamao, the false wall should come out pretty easy, just take a razor blade and run it along the sides where it is siliconed onto the tank. It should just pull right off. Mine came out when i filled the back up with water a little faster than the front, so i wouldn't think it would take to much.

Thanks for the help. It worked fine! The false wall is finally gone.

SlvrSurfRidr · 07/08/2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kamao
Thanks for the help. It worked fine! The false wall is finally gone.

Why did you buy an AIO if you pulled the wall?!

06/22/2009, 08:36 AM	#1
JohnL RC Staff Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 14,431	JBJ 28 Gallon Nano Owners Club This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...7#post15236537

06/22/2009, 08:36 AM	#2
sl-atl Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 291	Good luck! I think knowing the source of the problem is most of the battle. I had a pencil urchin that was really tough on the algae, but moved it out of the DT since it also was very effective at re-arranging the rock work! I could actually see the white trail it left behind as it grazed across the rocks. __________________ "Success is going from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill ~Click the red house to see our aquarium blog~ Current Tank Info: None currently

06/22/2009, 11:35 AM	#4
SlvrSurfRidr aka: coraltopia Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 984	cheers to the double split! __________________ JBJ 28g HQI + Nanocustoms 2.18 Actinic Factory Retro AquaMaxx HOB-I Protein Skimmer + 2LF Phosban 150 1/15 JBJ Arctica Titanium Chiller + Neptune Systems APEX lite

07/02/2009, 08:00 AM	#7
ibarrag Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Southern California Posts: 4	Nitrate Problem Hey guys -- New to RC and this thread. Read the first 50 pages or so and have been impressed with the level of expertise, results and most importantly the helpfulness of the posters. So, I've decided to seek help here. I've had my 28 HQI for about a month. I bought it from another hobbyist and it was "established". I took his tank, water, live rock and about two inches of live sand. When I set it up at home, I did a 50% water change and ammonia, PH, nitrite were all OK. Nitrates were high, but I figured they would eventually come down. I began to stock it with a cleaning crew, more live rock, a couple of fish and some small frags (all over about a month's time). I've made about five or six 20% water changes over that month and nitrates are still through the roof! The livestock seems fine and even thriving, but these nitrate levels are a constant worry. I'm beginning to suspect the sand bed is the culprit cause I can't think of any other reason my frequent water changes aren't lowering nitrates. I'm thinking of establishing a refug with chaeto in my center compartment and upgrading my standard skimmer. I've also thought that I may have to take out the sand. Any thoughts from some of you more experienced reefers? Sorry for the long post. G

07/03/2009, 08:42 PM	#13
Chemistry Guy Registered Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 70	Aeration without skimmer? I'm proud to say that I am a new member of the HQI nano-cube club! I was wondering about foregoing the skimmer all-together like some of you are doing. Do you worry about the lack of aeration?

06/22/2009, 08:41 AM	#3
breeze Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lighthouse Point, Fl Posts: 291	Yeah, second split!

06/27/2009, 03:55 PM	#5
super six 5 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 104	The addition of the Vortech MP20 has helped me a bunch. I'm seeing less algae and my skimmer seems to be pulling more garbage from the water. :-)

06/27/2009, 06:55 PM	#6
BradHall Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sturkie Posts: 88	This is just a comment on my latest upgrade. I recently purchased a 1/10th jbj chiller along with a aquac remora with a 1200. Since then I noticed my factory pumps working with less pressure so I now upgraded the factory 2 powerheads to two maxijet 1200's and also added a maxijet 1200 with the suregrip inside the bottom rear of the tank and in my opinion it is almost perfect flow, by the way I also took out the wavemaker so all the pumps run constantly and my tank looks so much cleaner in just one week and the corals have started to open up more even.

07/02/2009, 08:20 AM	#8
breeze Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lighthouse Point, Fl Posts: 291	Exactly how high are your nitrates? Your sand bed could be the problem. They are supposed to help with nitrates but the stirring up from the move may have released nitrates into the water. Plus, I'm sure there was some die off of stuff on the live rock, causing a mini cycle in the aquarium. I have never been a fan of sand beds. I used to run bare bottom in the 90's before it became more popular and they were always successful. I currently have a very shallow sand bed for the look right now which I regularly siphon with a gravel cleaner during water changes. Sand beds require frequent stirring by snails and other creatures for them to be successful. I would suggest continuing the water changes, removing some sand slowly with each change. Make sure there is nothing dead or areas collecting dirt in the tank or in the filter compartment (eg under live rock (blow out with turkey baster), dirty sponges in the back, etc.). Also, try to add a powerhead or two in the display for more flow to keep thinks suspended. Consider adding the refugium as you are doing or a better skimmer. Good luck, let us know how it goes.

07/02/2009, 08:55 AM	#9
ibarrag Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Southern California Posts: 4	Thanks for the quick reply Breeze. My dilemma is that despite the outrages nitrate levels (80 - 100), the livestock seems unaffected and even thriving. I worry about an catastrophic crash though. I have a Diamond Goby who sifts the sand thoroughly and quite a few burrowing snails, so the sand is moved a lot now. I have a Koralia 1 shooting a stream across the tank and thinking of adding a second one (or a mod'd Maxi-Jet 1200) aimed at the back to eliminate any dead spots. I'm using the stock return pumps and a Maxi-Jet 1200 to power the chiller, so flow seems adequate. Adding a refug with chaeto and a better skimmer (may opt for the HOB refug/skimmer) should help. Removing or partially removing the sand is an option, but I'm hesitant to do that right away cause of the stress to the livestock, especially the Diamond, and cause it's a lot of work. At this point and as long as the livestock seem fine, maybe I should continue with the water changes, the mentioned mods and keep hoping for better nitrate levels. I just don't want the entire tank to crash. Thoughts? Thanks in advance. G

07/02/2009, 10:04 AM	#10
breeze Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lighthouse Point, Fl Posts: 291	If everything is doing well, I wouldn't make any sudden changes. You would be more likely to precipitate a crash that way. I think you are right, cont the water changes and add the refugium/skimmer. Are you having algae outbreaks? Are you sure the nitrates are really that high? Have you had someone else confirm it with another test?

07/02/2009, 10:42 AM	#11
ibarrag Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Southern California Posts: 4	I've got some algae, but seems normal -- nothing the various snails and crabs can't handle. The thought did cross my mind that perhaps the nitrate test kit was faulty. I'm using an API Master Test Kit, but I got it from the guy I bought the cube from, so don't really know how old it is or other things that may effect it's accuracy. I'm going to buy some test strips to double check, or take a sample to the LFS. I agree that it's best not to make any sudden and profound changes. Guess I'll go slow (as long as things are OK otherwise) and stay the course and hope for the best. Thanks again for listening and your advise. G

07/03/2009, 08:29 AM	#12
spook8282 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Austin Tx. Posts: 134	For those of you running the actinic upgrade what light schedule are you using? Thanks, Jeff

07/03/2009, 11:09 PM	#14
sl-atl Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 291	ibarrag, I would bet that your kit is the problem since your livestock is doing so well. I had a false-positive problem with an ammonia test kit- caused some unnecessary heartburn! Chem. Guy, what livestock are you keeping? If you have SPS or a large bioload I wouldn't forgo a skimmer- just my .02. __________________ "Success is going from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill ~Click the red house to see our aquarium blog~ Current Tank Info: None currently

07/04/2009, 07:56 AM	#15
ibarrag Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Southern California Posts: 4	sl-atl, thanks for your input. I forgot to mention that I did a test, using the same kit, on a batch of new water I bought at the LFS before I used it to do a 25% water change. The test showed zero nitrates in the new water. I'm still not convinced I'm not getting a false-positive though, and am going to get the test strips to do a quick verification test. Meanwhile, I did a 25% water change yesterday and nitrates are still through the roof G

07/04/2009, 08:26 AM	#16
Chemistry Guy Registered Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 70	Thanks for the advice sl-atl, I do plan on keeping several SPS, so I'll keep the skimmer in. Going along with ibarrag's question, how long to test kits generally stay good? I have some that are several years old and it's clear that the chemicals have started crystallizing out of solution. Do you think these can even give me a ball-park figure or just trash them?

07/04/2009, 09:41 AM	#17
sl-atl Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 291	I would trash them, personally, unless they include reference tests that you can use to verify the reagents are still good. Cost of test kits vs. cost of livestock. __________________ "Success is going from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill ~Click the red house to see our aquarium blog~ Current Tank Info: None currently

07/04/2009, 10:25 AM	#18
Kamao Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 115	Any tips on how to remove the false wall?

07/06/2009, 07:53 PM	#19
odiest Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 72	I did the lighting upgrade back in Jan. and I have the pc's come on 1/2 hour before my main light and stay on for a 1/2 hour after. I leave the metal halide on for 7.5 hours. David

07/07/2009, 07:01 AM	#20
jpweber Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 564	kamao, the false wall should come out pretty easy, just take a razor blade and run it along the sides where it is siliconed onto the tank. It should just pull right off. Mine came out when i filled the back up with water a little faster than the front, so i wouldn't think it would take to much.

07/07/2009, 02:14 PM	#21
spook8282 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Austin Tx. Posts: 134	For some reason in this tank im having the hardest time keeping acropora. My Red Planet seems to be fine but has lost all of the green base. All water parameters are good. My Nitrate could be a little lower but isnt to high. About 5-10ppm. 0 phosphate, 450 calcium, 8-12 DKH, 1300, Magnisium. Is the light on this tank not strong enough. Ive been running a 20k XM bulb now for the last 4 months with the actinic upgrade. Halides on for 6 hours, and actinics 1hr before and after. Any ideas why My Acro isnt liking it in there. Its pretty high in the tank as well. Thanks, Jeff

07/07/2009, 08:05 PM	#22
breeze Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lighthouse Point, Fl Posts: 291	How long has the tank set up? Acropora need stability. My acros have been really coloring up since I changed to a 20K radium. Make sure your alk is rock stable.

07/08/2009, 06:06 AM	#23
jpweber Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 564	Yea i am having the same problem with my acros, the color isnt great and growth is slow. They are healthy it seems good polyp extension and the tissue looks good but the growth is painfully slow. I am still running the stock bulb though, thats my next change is gettting something else, was looking at a pheonix 14k.