Caribbean Biotope Seagrass Tank

[Michael Hoaster]

I was curious about the dyed thing myself. I contacted Blue Zoo Aquatics, since they sell them. They said they were not dyed, but came mainly from Haiti, just that purple. So I doubt mine is dyed. If the purple color fades away, or the anemone dies, maybe it is. To my eye, it appears to be naturally colored, with the same distribution of color intensity I've seen in other anemones.

[sam.basye]

Good to hear! I was intrigued when I read the article and wondered how they could get it evenly distributed. First I'd heard of artificially colored Coral. I've seen the awful tattooed freshwater Platty's... Hearts and different colored shapes.


Anyways, how big is your purple Haitian condy supposed to get? It would be bad*** to have it grow huge in that spot it is in. Especially with Mr. Pederson living in it. Lol

[Michael Hoaster]

Condylactis Gigantea can reach 20 inches across in the wild, 16 in captivity. I hope it gets big too! Although maybe not 16 inches…

I saw one while snorkeling in Tortola. It was huge, and one of the most beautifully colored things I'd ever seen!

I really do hope to take good care of this animal! It seems pretty happy. It has moved from the original placement about 2-3 inches only, in a couple weeks. It has grown some already as well. I'm feeding it 1-2 times a week.

Mr Pederson was hanging out about one inch away today, so maybe he's working up to it. He didn't stay close though. I think he's still exploring. Sowing his oats before settling down. I just hope he survives his journey.

[Michael Hoaster]

Mr Pederson was checking out the anemone today. But he didn't stay. He wanders around.

Snail population is receding. I may have to get those coral banded shrimp out of there.

Went back and reread some of "The Environment Gradient", by Steve Tyree. I wanted to see what he fed his sponges. Nothing. He basically increased the bio load in the tank as sponge mass increased. Both corals and fish contribute to the DOM-dissolved organic matter, which sponges feed on. He did say that feeding phytoplankton could be beneficial.

He wasn't concerned with aesthetics. He employed many small, workhorse sponges, as living filtration.

I however, want my sponges to be pretty (and living filters). So, I will be feeding them and pampering them.

I was studying up on sponges and found some good news regarding a sponge I want-the Purple Tube sponge. It's supposed to be one the 'easier' sponges to keep. Sweet.

[Michael Hoaster]

I'm getting excited about sponge shopping! I found an online vender with a good selection of caribbean sponges. I'm thinking seriously about fragging them up and scattering them around the roots, rocks and wall. Spread them over various conditions, and see what works. Need to get some sodium silicate, and possibly, a nannochloropsis culturing setup.

It might be good to introduce a school of chromis beforehand. It'd be nice to have more fish!

I considered adding the atlantic blue tang, but I want to get my macros to overgrown status, before I unleash the voracious herbivore on it. Maybe if I start with enough, they can equalize. I wonder if it's possible, in my size tank, to support a single tang. I doubt it, in the long run, but it might for a while…

I'd love to add the grammas, but not with that shrimp not hosting in the anemone yet. I'm sure they'd take mr pederson out in short order!

The chromis will probably leave him alone. They have pretty small mouths. Mid water column plankton pickers.

[ichthyogeek]

I forget, wouldn't a tang go haywire on the seagrass? or is that just turtles and manatees?

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that a tang might not work out as well as you think it might. Why not try one of the more herbivorous species of dwarf angels, since those eat macros and sponges?

Also, how idiotic does this idea sound? : At least once a day, emulate some sort of predatory fish so you scare Mr. Pederson into the anemone, or at least, try to get him closer to the anemone for shelter. Also, what might be the chances of your Pederson's shrimp not actually being an anemone shrimp?

Oh, and how are you going to feed the chromis? Are your zooplankton levels up already?

[karimwassef]

Scaring a shrimp into an anemone is making him into lunch...



I would put food in or next to the anemone.

[Michael Hoaster]

I'll reinvestigate the tang, but I'm pretty sure they don't eat the more fibrous grasses. I do expect them to assist my army of snails, in keeping the grasses free of micro algae.

The biggest fear for me at this time, is the fear of the unknown. There just isn't that much info about them out there. I've never read of ANYone's experience with this fish. I've kept several of the other more popular tangs, so I know their general temperament, but this guy is a bit of an unknown. I do expect he will be the boss of the tank, obviously, but I just don't know how mean he will be to his much tinier tank mates. In my experience, big herbivores get along fine with smaller planktivores. He will be the only herbivorous fish in the tank. I take that back-I plan to have a small harem of cherub angelfish. So there could be some trouble there. But the cherubs favor the micro algae, detritus and benthic plankton, so there's not a lot of diet overlap. We'll see! If he's a bastard, he's gone!

Bottom line, I really want to try this fish. I'll get the cherubs in first, so they can get comfy. I'll be getting a young, yellow phase specimen. It should be cool, watching it gradually change over to blue. If anyone out there has any experience with this fish, I'd love to hear from you!

Back to Mr Pederson-yes, he's an anemone shrimp. Condylactis are one of three, or so anemones they host with. For the last two days, he has stayed within a few inches of it. So, we're getting closer. Maybe he doesn't feel the need to go through the whole acclimation process yet. He's getting plenty of food, and apparently no threat of predation so far. Hard to believe those coral banded shrimp haven't gotten to him yet! I love your idea of trying to 'intimidate' him into the 'nem! I have done some gentle 'herding'. I've also tried getting him to follow the food I'm feeding the anemone. I'll try it again. Sooner or later he has to realize his purple markings are a perfect match for the purple condy!

I'll double check the chromis' diet, but I'm pretty sure they're plankton pickers, so they'll get the same foods I feed the barnacle blennies. And yes, my resident pod-pulation is in good stead.

As I mentioned way back in the early pages of this thread, that part of the fascination of doing this caribbean biotope thing, is that I've never kept a single one of these fish before. Not even the grammas, believe it or not!

[Michael Hoaster]

I found some good first hand experience with blue tang right here on RC. It seems there's a lot of variation! Generally, they seem do better when they are not the king of the tank-and it would be in mine. Also, my 180 tall tank may be on the small side for a full grown specimen. We'll see.

I wonder if mr pederson is parking close to the anemone to sit 'downstream' from it, to facilitate getting coated with 'nem phlegm. That might be it. So surely he's moving in soon…

I've been studying the caribbean chromises, and they're looking less attractive, fighting amongst themselves, and getting less colorful as they age. So, I may do a different schooling fish.

[karimwassef]

anthias??

cardinals!

[ichthyogeek]

I personally really like silverside minnows (I can't remember what they are exactly, but I think that's their name). Maybe you could try restocking mollies? It's a pity that you can't keep seahorses either...

Would a small shoal of chalk bass or flame cardinalfish work? IDK how they'd interact with the shrimp though.

[Michael Hoaster]

Yes, the flame cardinal is under consideration. I did just read that they're better as a mated pair than a school though.

A big school of Silversides would be awesome! I even have a vender lined up. I need to do more research on them. My main reservation with them is I'm afraid they'd wipe out all my plankton in about a week.

The blue caribbean chromises are cool and they don't turn ugly with age, but I've done the chromis thing, where they gradually kill each other off until there's only one left…

The mollies were perfect for the earlier phase of the tank, but now, with almost no micro algae for them, probably not.

Although I have no interest in keeping seahorses, why do you say I can't?

Chalk bass are on the list. Not sure how many though-probably not a school, but possibly.

Masked gobies, Coryphopterus personatus, are small, schooling gobies from Florida that I'm currently looking into, at KP Aquatics. These look like a great schooling candidate for my tank. And not very common in the hobby, which I like.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys! If anyone else has a schooling caribbean fish suggestion, I'd love to hear from you.

[sam.basye]

I really like the masked gobies, but I don't think they will 'school'...
They appear to sit around and perch instead of swim in groups.

I think that small fish, like the masked goby, would look best as a school in your tank (provided they are actively swimming) as opposed to a school of larger fish. The schooling effect would be much cooler the more fish in the school. They might be more inclined to school together the more fish there are as well.

How's the anemone doin?

[ichthyogeek]

Because seahorses are not exactly community fish. The tang/dwarf angels would nip'em to death. Other planktivores would compete'em to death. You'd have to hand-feed them for them to get enough food in their system. The tank water temperatures would probably be high enough to foster too much bacterial growth in the seahorses, leading to infection...

I'm not slighting you as an aquarist, really I'm not. It's just that I did a lot of research when I wanted to keep seahorses, and while I can't keep them due to my busy schedule, I did learn a lot about how to keep them. Your tank would look really nice as a more peaceful seahorse devoted tank...but with your current lineup, it wouldn't work...

[Michael Hoaster]

Perching, hovering and schooling are what I've read they do. I'll keep reading. Silversides are still in the running, and oh so cheap!

Schooling is kind of an elusive behavior in our tanks, isn't it? So cool when it happens!

The anemone is magnificent! Still staying put, eating and growing! I kept rose bubble 'nems in the past, and this thing just puts them to shame. So beautiful!

With my very limited experience so far, I'm hesitant to boast that I've figured this one out, but I do have a few thoughts to share. My 400 watt 6500K MH lighting approximates their shallow water environment pretty well, I think. In its current location, it gets lightly brushed with current, so it gets a shot at food every time I feed the tank. My tank is now one month shy of a year old, so water conditions have stabilized. And I feed it once or twice a week.

I think one the reasons this animal has such a dismal record in the hobby, is because it's cheap and often kept by beginners. Many of these folks have no clue what they're doing, general aquarium-wise, much less sensitive invertebrate-wise. So they end up poorly-lit and under fed, and in questionable water quality.

[karimwassef]

Where are you getting silversides? What do they eat?

[Michael Hoaster]

http://mblaquaculture.com/content/or..._beryllina.php

They are planktivores.

[Michael Hoaster]

Agreed, Ichthyogeek. I was going get into those same reasons, plus I'm too lazy for their feeding regime! It would be cool to do a slow fish species tank though.

No offense taken, and thanks for posting!

[Michael Hoaster]

Mr Pederson has left the building… Gone missing for the last two days. I bet the coral banded shrimp got him. Bummer. Another possibility is that he's molting and hiding out. I guess I'll know in another day or two.

I better get those killer shrimp out of there before they do any more harm. I guess it was a mistake to add them. I hate it when that happens. You make a decision to try and solve a problem and end up causing another. My fault…

[ichthyogeek]

So....remind me again why you decided to buy coral banded shrimp? I know they eat bristleworms...but that's about it.

[Michael Hoaster]

So, I've been thinking. My seagrasses just aren't growing as fast as I think they can. Something is limiting them and I'm getting tired of waiting for my lush meadow. With daily fish feeding, I know it's not phosphate. This leaves carbon and nitrogen, and possibly, iron.

I decided to consult with 'the Masters', so I went back and reread the "Forum favorites (old helpful posts)" threads, here on the Marine Plants & Macroalgae Forum. Almost ten years old, and that stuff is still cutting edge! If you are trying to grow macros or seagrasses, this is a gold mine of information.

There are some very interesting threads regarding dosing.

So, I can stay the course, which I have to admit, is pretty good, or I can take a chance and experiment. Here goes!

First off, I replaced my empty CO2 tank and got the CO2 injection going again. That should help with carbon limitation. For those of you not sold on CO2, I invite you to read Samala's thread CO2 Magic! at http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=778087. This lady is the queen of seagrass, and is very respected. Her before and after photos are very convincing.

Next, I'm starting iron dosing. While I was in my LFS, exchanging my killer coral banded shrimps for peppermints, I noticed they had a big mixed bin of half-off additives. I dug and dug and found a SW specific iron supplement. Yay!

For nitrogen, I went down to my local hardware store and got some stump remover, which is potassium nitrate. For doubters, again, I refer you to the "Old Helpful Posts". I will of course wait a while before dosing this, to see how the iron and CO2 do. I think potassium nitrate is less risky than the glutamic acid I tried before, which is basically pure ammonia.

I know there is some risk involved, but I'm going to proceed with caution (and low doses). Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

So, there you have it! The apple cart is officially upset!

[Michael Hoaster]

No discernible change, one day after reinitiating CO2 and dosing iron. After what I read about iron dosing, I kind of expected to see a little greening up. Yes, that quickly. Oh well, patience. And caution.

I went ahead and started nitrate dosing this evening. I'll take it slow and low. I'm going to dose iron and nitrate on alternating days to start, and keep a very close eye on things. If anything goes awry, it'll be water change time.

If I had to guess, I'd say the grasses are nitrogen limited. With the tank at nearly one year, my DSB is likely performing at peak capacity, soaking up nitrates before the grasses can get at them.

I'm pretty excited, stepping carefully into nutrient dosing. I look forward to posting pics, when I have something new to show.

The peppermint shrimp went into holes in the back wall, when I introduced them. They're still in there! Hopefully they'll realize there's nothing in my tank to pray on them. Surely they'll get hungry and come out and get to work on the aiptasia anemones I have popping here and there.

[karimwassef]

Deep breath. One day...

[Michael Hoaster]

Well I checked and the peppermints are coming out at night. I've never known these shrimp to be so shy! I guess the gramma caves are very appealing homes. I'll take it as a good omen, for when I eventually get the grammas!

My observations of the seagrass and macros showed no change-at first. Then I noticed some growth in the manatee grass. I now have 6 blades over 24 inches in length. I'm going to call it a modest victory. The taller the better for sure, but what I really want to see is plants spreading and multiplying. As I said, I'm cautiously proceeding, with low dosages, so I shouldn't expect miracles. I should be thankful I haven't screwed things up!

[karimwassef]

I have close to 70 peppermints in my 380DT. They never come out during the day... Ever.

At night, they run amock! Eating, breeding... Avoiding my coral banded (who also comes out only at night) and flitting around my porcelain filter crab (only night).

Same with all my serpent stars and cucumbers. And the bristle worms coming out of the rocks and sand.

It's like a completely different tank at night.