Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Do It Yourself
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 02/25/2007, 11:02 AM   #26
douggiestyle
Registered Member
 
douggiestyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: MOON
Posts: 1,736
Quote:
Originally posted by hahnmeister
Wet Drys are notorious nitrate producers... just because you havent seen that result yet, or perhaps your LR is keeping up. People can have nitrate problems for a variety of reasons beyond a wet-dry, so to deduct that wet-drys must not be part of the problem is not accurate.
actually i said "it is safe to say that wet/dry filters alone do not cause nitrate problems."

not familiar with the phosphates. but it makes sense that if bacteria are breaking down complex molecules that contain phosphates, then phosphates would be released.
as far as bioballs being constructed for producing nitrates. yes and no. they where constructed to give maximum surface area for bacteria to grow on and allow maximum flow with the minimum of clogging. ping pong balls have been used as well as rock and sand. basically it has nothing to do with the type of bacteria as long as the bacteria will grow on the different sufaces. so im sure they made sure the bacteria grew on the media before marketing but i dont believe the media was engineered specifically for nitrosomas and nitrobacters only.

im just interpreting different findings and facts, ive never done any tests.

btw this is an excellent debate!


douggiestyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/25/2007, 06:14 PM   #27
hahnmeister
Moved On
 
hahnmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Brew City, WI
Posts: 10,786
sure it has to do with the type of bacteria, or rather the state they are in. A media that has very deep pores can create the low-02 zones required for anaerobic bacteria that do nitrate conversion. Bio-balls and other media that dont have the deep zones for nitrate reduction cant reduce nitrate, so they can only get the ammonia to nitrite, and the nitrite to nitrate, but then thats it. Now, its possible that with bio-balls and LR, the LR is offsetting the nitrate being produced by the wet-dry, at least for a while, but the problem is that then you are making your LR less efficient. Really, the bio-balls arent doing anything that the LR cant do, and, there is no difference still between having bio-balls submerged or in a wet-dry... its just how much they do it.


hahnmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/25/2007, 06:29 PM   #28
fio1022
Registered Member
 
fio1022's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 1,558
Angry I Give Up

Well,I tried and I tried and the micro bubbles win.
First design:both 1" drain lines into 1 1/2" pipe into 4" tower.By trial and error I varied height of water brake,drilled several vent holes,drilled additional holes below water line.All attempts produced micro bubbles.NG!
Second design:each drain line to have separate tower.Did same modifications as first design. NG!
I even tried a seperate one for the protien skimmer.NG!


All 3 failed bubble towers


Final outcome

Unless I find a different design, back to the 'eFFin' filter sock.


__________________
its all about time,space,and money

Current Tank Info: 240g,64g acrylic sump/fuge,Apex,AI Hydra52,Vortech MP40's,Reef Dynamics INS300,GEO 612,etc....
fio1022 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/25/2007, 07:18 PM   #29
douggiestyle
Registered Member
 
douggiestyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: MOON
Posts: 1,736
is the sock working for you?


douggiestyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/25/2007, 07:34 PM   #30
Snaphook
Premium Member
 
Snaphook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lithia, FL
Posts: 526
Keelay....What are you using for a water break? Or what would you recommend using?

Thanks


Snaphook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/25/2007, 07:49 PM   #31
thesaent14
Moved On
 
thesaent14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: miami lakes florida
Posts: 1,591
fio1022


please show mw a pic of the tank overflow i probably can help you now for every one i hope this help

this is my news DIY and how is the pluming to i was having lots of mycro bubles because my pump was to fast on the turne rate and the sump is to small plus i wass having to much noise on the overflow

tank pic


sump


overflow


buble trap

is use for the skimmer to

mufler for the noise


how is plum

top

bottom


any Q??????


thesaent14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/25/2007, 08:09 PM   #32
fio1022
Registered Member
 
fio1022's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 1,558
Quote:
Originally posted by douggiestyle
is the sock working for you?
Thats the only thing that minimizes them.
I know I have too much flow thru the sump but I refuse to throttle back.I love the circulation in the display tank.I just wish I could find a better solution.A bigger sump is not an option.


__________________
its all about time,space,and money

Current Tank Info: 240g,64g acrylic sump/fuge,Apex,AI Hydra52,Vortech MP40's,Reef Dynamics INS300,GEO 612,etc....
fio1022 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/25/2007, 08:11 PM   #33
jmait769
-CSHFLW
 
jmait769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 2,697
fio1022 - I came up with this setup for my system and there are no micro-bubbles.





On the far left is a 3" pipe inside an acrylic bubble extractor the drain empties into. I combined Prugs Bubble Extractor and Melev's solution to Micro-Bubbles
into one to reduce bubbles and lower the noise.

I can also remove the above extractors and run a sock:



HTH

Jay


__________________
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work"
- Thomas Alva Edison
http://www.reeftronics.net/jay-m/reefcam

Current Tank Info: 150 Gallon, Marco Rocks, 8x80W ATI Powermodule, Apex, Super Reef Octopus XP-3000 external
jmait769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/25/2007, 08:18 PM   #34
fio1022
Registered Member
 
fio1022's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 1,558
Quote:
Originally posted by thesaent14
fio1022


please show mw a pic of the tank overflow i probably can help you now for every one i hope this help



It has two megaflows in corners.1" drains and 3/4 returns.
I'm using a dart sequence as my main pump.I have it on a DIY manifold on it that is running a chiller,skimmer/refugium,and a modified mag canister filter.Chiller and mag are below approx.4' head.
Still alot of flow.


__________________
its all about time,space,and money

Current Tank Info: 240g,64g acrylic sump/fuge,Apex,AI Hydra52,Vortech MP40's,Reef Dynamics INS300,GEO 612,etc....
fio1022 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/26/2007, 01:57 AM   #35
Keelay
Registered Member
 
Keelay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 783
Quote:
Originally posted by Snaphook
Keelay....What are you using for a water break? Or what would you recommend using?

Thanks
I wasn't that inventive. After trying it without, I knew I needed something plastic to place in the way of the stream of water. I thought what do I have that is plastic that I can cut with my wood tools. I came up with an easy answer: PVC pipe. I ripped it in half with my table saw:
It looked like this when finished.


Then I cut it to length so that it would barely fit across the inside of the bubble tower. I literally had to jam it onto place. No glue or fasteners. It's just jammed in there. I might someday works loose. I'll know it when my bubbles in the sump suddenly increase.

Heres a crude cross section of the bubble tower.


This in now way is an optimized solution. There may be a better way to create a water break. I stopped working on it when the bubbles decreased to an acceptable level. I do get some bubbles out of it. it's less that 20x what I would get without it. Maybe more. Traversing the sump removes these few bubbles. No bubbles make it to the return pump.

My main goals were to eliminate both the noise and the salt spray from the bubbles rising and bursting (both big and small). The bubble reduction was a huge plus for me since my sump really handled them pretty well anyways.


__________________
MobiLinc, a new way to experience your home. Visit the MobiLinc Store for low prices and the best quality on INSTEON home automation gear.

Current Tank Info: 100G Custom Acrylic, 40 Gallon Sump, DIY Gravity Assisted Protien Skimmer, ATO, 2x175W MH + 1x96W VHO Actinic
Keelay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/26/2007, 08:18 AM   #36
douggiestyle
Registered Member
 
douggiestyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: MOON
Posts: 1,736
may want to put a restricter on the pump output. a gate valve would work. that is if you think the pump is to much flow.


douggiestyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/26/2007, 11:33 AM   #37
toddc76
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicopee, MA
Posts: 102
I am actually the person who gave the OP the idea to start this one. I have my buble tower full of LR rubble and if I completely close the return diverter my Pan Worl pump will push around 900-1000gph and my tower has no problem controlling 90% of the bubbles at that rate.

Is the LR in the tower a future concern for Nitrates?


__________________
-=Todd C

Current Tank Info: 14g Bio Cube, just getting started
toddc76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/26/2007, 12:46 PM   #38
hahnmeister
Moved On
 
hahnmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Brew City, WI
Posts: 10,786
No, no concern for nitrates, but it is working against you as far as bubble removal goes. You might want to try the bubble remover without the LR inside.


hahnmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/26/2007, 01:42 PM   #39
douggiestyle
Registered Member
 
douggiestyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: MOON
Posts: 1,736
Quote:
Originally posted by toddc76
I am actually the person who gave the OP the idea to start this one. I have my buble tower full of LR rubble and if I completely close the return diverter my Pan Worl pump will push around 900-1000gph and my tower has no problem controlling 90% of the bubbles at that rate.

Is the LR in the tower a future concern for Nitrates?
as long as the pieces are large/irregular enough and dont nest so as not to cause clogging. regardless of what you place in the tower the main goal would be to reduce the accumulation detritus/debris. if this occurs then you could have a problem with nitrate. the key would be to allow the debris to flow through the filled area so that it can be
a. collected by a mech filter that can easily and regularly be cleaned
or
b. be removed by the skimmer.
or a combination of the two.
time wise, the longer debris is allowed in the tank the longer it can remineralize and release nitrates into the water as it decomposes.


douggiestyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/27/2007, 03:04 PM   #40
fio1022
Registered Member
 
fio1022's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 1,558
One More Shot

After alot of thought and pvc dust,I came up with this design.

Behold the Bubble Blaster 2000





Don't know if it's going to work.Planning on trying it out later tonight.


__________________
its all about time,space,and money

Current Tank Info: 240g,64g acrylic sump/fuge,Apex,AI Hydra52,Vortech MP40's,Reef Dynamics INS300,GEO 612,etc....
fio1022 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/27/2007, 07:31 PM   #41
Keelay
Registered Member
 
Keelay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 783
Re: One More Shot

Quote:
Originally posted by fio1022
After alot of thought and pvc dust,I came up with this design.

Behold the Bubble Blaster 2000
Don't know if it's going to work.Planning on trying it out later tonight.
Dude. \

That is some serious water breakage. Looks promising. I would love to see some pics of it in action.


__________________
MobiLinc, a new way to experience your home. Visit the MobiLinc Store for low prices and the best quality on INSTEON home automation gear.

Current Tank Info: 100G Custom Acrylic, 40 Gallon Sump, DIY Gravity Assisted Protien Skimmer, ATO, 2x175W MH + 1x96W VHO Actinic
Keelay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/28/2007, 03:52 AM   #42
fio1022
Registered Member
 
fio1022's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 1,558
Another one for the scrap pile.


__________________
its all about time,space,and money

Current Tank Info: 240g,64g acrylic sump/fuge,Apex,AI Hydra52,Vortech MP40's,Reef Dynamics INS300,GEO 612,etc....
fio1022 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/28/2007, 11:31 AM   #43
douggiestyle
Registered Member
 
douggiestyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: MOON
Posts: 1,736
there is nothing wrong with the sock filter. just keep it clean. should look into reducing flow through sump.


douggiestyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/28/2007, 04:13 PM   #44
fio1022
Registered Member
 
fio1022's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 1,558
There is nothing wrong with the sock.I just hate the routine.I got spoiled from my last tank that didn't micro bubbles.Also didn't have nearly as much circulation.Trade off I guess.
I'm working on one more version of this before I throw in the towel or sock that is...


__________________
its all about time,space,and money

Current Tank Info: 240g,64g acrylic sump/fuge,Apex,AI Hydra52,Vortech MP40's,Reef Dynamics INS300,GEO 612,etc....
fio1022 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/28/2007, 04:21 PM   #45
eameres
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 406
OK, call me crazy, but why not just transition to a large diameter "U" at the end of the drain? Wouldn't changing the diameter and direction effectively force any bubbles to surface ? This would effectively create a "brick wall" in terms of a water break.


eameres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/01/2007, 05:48 PM   #46
Keelay
Registered Member
 
Keelay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 783
Quote:
Originally posted by eameres
OK, call me crazy, but why not just transition to a large diameter "U" at the end of the drain? Wouldn't changing the diameter and direction effectively force any bubbles to surface ? This would effectively create a "brick wall" in terms of a water break.
It would work OK depending on how you implemented it. It would however likely take up more space than a bubble tower.

Another issue:
Salt spray might not be addressed very well either. I guess it depends on which "surface" you are talking about. The U-Tube would have a surface where the drainline entered the U-Tube and on U-Tube outlet. Bubbles on the U-Tube inlet would be fine. On the outlet however, would be brought to the surface but would still generate salt spray and maybe a little noise (hiss)


__________________
MobiLinc, a new way to experience your home. Visit the MobiLinc Store for low prices and the best quality on INSTEON home automation gear.

Current Tank Info: 100G Custom Acrylic, 40 Gallon Sump, DIY Gravity Assisted Protien Skimmer, ATO, 2x175W MH + 1x96W VHO Actinic
Keelay is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:27 PM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2018 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.