when is your reef tank considered mature - Page 2

reefgeezer · 10/20/2017, 09:56 AM

I'll give it a shot... Mature reefs process nutrients with less intervention required. Skimming, GFO, GAC, algae filters, carbon dosing, and all the other stuff we use to try to control nutrients in less mature systems become less necessary. They are replaced by organisms like corals, clams, sponges, worms, pods, et. al. which bind nutrients in their growth process or otherwise metabolize them into a food source.

karimwassef · 10/20/2017, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reefgeezer

I'll give it a shot... Mature reefs process nutrients with less intervention required. Skimming, GFO, GAC, algae filters, carbon dosing, and all the other stuff we use to try to control nutrients in less mature systems become less necessary. They are replaced by organisms like corals, clams, sponges, worms, pods, et. al. which bind nutrients in their growth process or otherwise metabolize them into a food source.

Good way to look at it. Maturity = stability = self sustainability comes when the organisms have reached balance and enough diversity to handle feeding (or lack thereof) and other external forces without substantial manual intervention.

d2mini · 10/20/2017, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heuristic

I don't really believe that a reef tank really mature much after a certain point, I think the reefer matures

There is definitely truth to this, but there also seems to be a point where biologically the tank has reached a point where it just seems to start cruising. Growth pics up, algae issues decrease, no issues adding new live stock... for me it's always sometime after the one year mark.

ca1ore · 10/20/2017, 01:43 PM

Necro bump .....

I judge my tank to be mature when I buy a new frag and realize I have no place to put it. Then you go and buy a few of those mag shelf things. Then they're full. Then you fill the frag tank. Then you have to get a bigger tank ..... and wait for it to 'mature'.

geldof · 04/19/2018, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reefgeezer

I'll give it a shot... Mature reefs process nutrients with less intervention required. Skimming, GFO, GAC, algae filters, carbon dosing, and all the other stuff we use to try to control nutrients in less mature systems become less necessary. They are replaced by organisms like corals, clams, sponges, worms, pods, et. al. which bind nutrients in their growth process or otherwise metabolize them into a food source.

I'd like to replace the word mature, with balanced. I have had a number of successful mixed reefs over the years, all different configurations from 7.5 - 120 gallons, usually SPS heavy. What they have all had in common is... once the cryptic zones mature, which takes about a year, the tank is much more stable.

I don't fully attribute a systems balance to the worms, sponges, pods and filter feeders in these zones such as under rocks, overflows and sump. Rather it is a sign that the system has settled into it's own individual balance of nutrient production and uptake. Bacteria and larger coral colonies are also contributing to nutrient uptake, which further stabilizes the system.

So to quote Reefgeezer, "Mature reefs process nutrients with less intervention required"

Maybe the word "Mature" is a bit of a misnomer, but balance within a certain bracket of time, in my case typically a year, is obtainable with proper knowledge and consistent husbandry.

FoxFace Fish · 04/20/2018, 09:46 AM

I just like to write a lot I do not know why, but I am going to through my hat in the ring.

There is no mature like what everyone else said. There is also no such thing as truly balanced in my opinion, but that is just me. I will agree that leaving a tank for 1-2 weeks or missing a water change is a good thing to be able to do but I would not use balanced. The amazing worlds that we keep in our homes are to say again a world. There are billions of creatures in them. Some that are large and some so small you need a microscope to see them.

The many reefs that we all keep are something we all cherish and honestly balanced is a completely opinionated statement. The real question is when do our aquariums hit equilibrium. For those who do not know it is not another word for balance it means to opposite forces are equal. Our bodies just like our reef tanks are in a constant equilibrium. There are more factors in a reef tank than the average hobbyist can count.

If just one thing goes wild then boom it happens the tank crashes. No matter how old or how new. example keeping nitrates low and algae growth. in my experience, if for some reason something like nitrates spikes you have a random algae plague. When the tank hits equilibrium which is also a fancy word

that is when your tank is where it should be. This can take a couple months or maybe 5 years it just depends on you more than anything, and your actions.

Sorry to bring the thread back I just felt like writing English class is boring today.

Smokey Stover · 04/20/2018, 11:57 AM

When it has a good job and moves out into its own apartment, Oh wait that's kids.

reefgeezer · 04/20/2018, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokey Stover

When it has a good job and moves out into its own apartment, Oh wait that's kids.

Do they really leave... eventually?

rjjr1963 · 04/20/2018, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxFace Fish

I just like to write a lot I do not know why, but I am going to through my hat in the ring.

There is no mature like what everyone else said. There is also no such thing as truly balanced in my opinion, but that is just me. I will agree that leaving a tank for 1-2 weeks or missing a water change is a good thing to be able to do but I would not use balanced. The amazing worlds that we keep in our homes are to say again a world. There are billions of creatures in them. Some that are large and some so small you need a microscope to see them.

The many reefs that we all keep are something we all cherish and honestly balanced is a completely opinionated statement. The real question is when do our aquariums hit equilibrium. For those who do not know it is not another word for balance it means to opposite forces are equal. Our bodies just like our reef tanks are in a constant equilibrium. There are more factors in a reef tank than the average hobbyist can count.

If just one thing goes wild then boom it happens the tank crashes. No matter how old or how new. example keeping nitrates low and algae growth. in my experience, if for some reason something like nitrates spikes you have a random algae plague. When the tank hits equilibrium which is also a fancy word

that is when your tank is where it should be. This can take a couple months or maybe 5 years it just depends on you more than anything, and your actions.

Sorry to bring the thread back I just felt like writing English class is boring today.

I couldn't agree more. I've been guilty of trying to "fix" everything that goes wrong. All that seems to do is throw the tank out of equilibrium and cause more problems. When I do run into a problem I try to let it run its course and achieve a new equilibrium. If the problem affects fish or corals I'll intervene with the least obtrusive measures. Changing parameters to chase a problem mostly ends with new problems. Every tank has its own natural parameters and chasing someone else's numbers is a fool's errand.

Back on topic: My main DT is 15 months old and I consider it still new. I don't see the variety and abundance of life to considered it anywhere near mature. I have a 20L that is 28 months old and it's a good ways towards being mature but still not there yet.

Timfish · 04/22/2018, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lighthouze08

when you can go on vacation for a week without thinking "wonder if my tank crashed" while i'm gone

+1

I find around the 1 year mark things just seem to settle down so week to week there's minimal change to the amount of algae growing on the glass, cryptic sponges can be seen growing where it wasn't before and looking closely bugs and 'pods can be seen around and behind rocks.

But the comments about the dynamic nature of reefs are very true. Things may seem to be on "autopilot" but just because the tank looks the same doesn't mean they are.

brian3 · 04/22/2018, 08:49 PM

My 125 is now around 20 years old and probably took 15 years to mature which in my opinion was my fault. For years I added additives, algae killers, Kalk, you name it, anything that promised to make your tank do great. Did not have the growth and my tank looked OK but not great. I finally stopped with the additives completely and added daily 2 gallon water changes using instant ocean salt only. I also dropped my LED intensity down by about a third. Now no algae issues and coral is growing great and has much better color. Also I run my tank at a little lower temp, around 72-73 F. Wish I would have done it years ago as it is so much easier and cheaper to maintain.

10/20/2017, 09:56 AM	#26
reefgeezer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 2,621	I'll give it a shot... Mature reefs process nutrients with less intervention required. Skimming, GFO, GAC, algae filters, carbon dosing, and all the other stuff we use to try to control nutrients in less mature systems become less necessary. They are replaced by organisms like corals, clams, sponges, worms, pods, et. al. which bind nutrients in their growth process or otherwise metabolize them into a food source. __________________ John, Current Tank Info: In-process, 90 Gallon SPS Reef

10/20/2017, 01:43 PM	#29
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Necro bump ..... I judge my tank to be mature when I buy a new frag and realize I have no place to put it. Then you go and buy a few of those mag shelf things. Then they're full. Then you fill the frag tank. Then you have to get a bigger tank ..... and wait for it to 'mature'. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

04/20/2018, 09:46 AM	#31
FoxFace Fish Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 435	I just like to write a lot I do not know why, but I am going to through my hat in the ring. There is no mature like what everyone else said. There is also no such thing as truly balanced in my opinion, but that is just me. I will agree that leaving a tank for 1-2 weeks or missing a water change is a good thing to be able to do but I would not use balanced. The amazing worlds that we keep in our homes are to say again a world. There are billions of creatures in them. Some that are large and some so small you need a microscope to see them. The many reefs that we all keep are something we all cherish and honestly balanced is a completely opinionated statement. The real question is when do our aquariums hit equilibrium. For those who do not know it is not another word for balance it means to opposite forces are equal. Our bodies just like our reef tanks are in a constant equilibrium. There are more factors in a reef tank than the average hobbyist can count. If just one thing goes wild then boom it happens the tank crashes. No matter how old or how new. example keeping nitrates low and algae growth. in my experience, if for some reason something like nitrates spikes you have a random algae plague. When the tank hits equilibrium which is also a fancy word that is when your tank is where it should be. This can take a couple months or maybe 5 years it just depends on you more than anything, and your actions. Sorry to bring the thread back I just felt like writing English class is boring today. __________________ FoxFace RabbitFish For Life Everyone in this hobby has made a mistake at least once. Be smart and learn from others mistakes Current Tank Info: Reason I am broke as a joke

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04/20/2018, 11:57 AM	#32
Smokey Stover Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Largo, Florida Posts: 361	When it has a good job and moves out into its own apartment, Oh wait that's kids.

04/22/2018, 08:49 PM	#36
brian3 Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: PA Posts: 216	My 125 is now around 20 years old and probably took 15 years to mature which in my opinion was my fault. For years I added additives, algae killers, Kalk, you name it, anything that promised to make your tank do great. Did not have the growth and my tank looked OK but not great. I finally stopped with the additives completely and added daily 2 gallon water changes using instant ocean salt only. I also dropped my LED intensity down by about a third. Now no algae issues and coral is growing great and has much better color. Also I run my tank at a little lower temp, around 72-73 F. Wish I would have done it years ago as it is so much easier and cheaper to maintain.