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11/07/2009, 01:48 PM | #26 |
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The idea being to remove organics that are coating the surface? That might be useful, but the 1 M NaOH may already do that by dissolving some of the surface.
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Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef |
11/07/2009, 05:46 PM | #27 |
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Where would an average dude like me find NaOH powder? That's really the only reason I ask, since both sodium and calcium hypochlorite are quite easy to find.
I think the downer with the hypochlorite would be the need to use a dechlorinator to bind up the chlorine. I forgot about that.
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11/07/2009, 06:09 PM | #28 | |
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You might also find a business that sells it for soapmaking, or for making biodiesel. Over here, there's a company called Technichem that manufactures industrial cleaners. They sell NaOH, or KOH by the gallon container. It's about $2/lb last I checked. |
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11/07/2009, 08:10 PM | #29 |
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red
"pigmy" screws are very tiny screws, kind shaped like a tiny human. Hence the name "pigmy" and not pygmy.They are half torx and half flat-head. "water" screws are for under water use. They are a cross between hex-head and phillips. Are you stupid or what ??? You don't know anything do you I have a whole box full of both kinds. Need a picture or what !!! AND That post never said "screw" but shrew. I checked it 5 times. Randy change it, just to make me look bad ..........again 'bleach" Nope red, bleach is a no go. You need something with OH- ions. Then there is lacing the GFO with bleach. But bleach does have a high pH You need to be very careful with crystal drain types as some have flake aluminum added to them as a catalyst and at times Sodium nitrate added
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11/07/2009, 08:18 PM | #30 |
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that damn Randy, messing with everyone's posts
Thanks for the info on the bleach no-no. Last thing we need is a slow-release chlorine pellet for our tank. As for the drain cleaner, wouldn't the aluminum (I thought it was magnesium?) flakes be obvious?
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"The measure of a life is not its duration but its donation." Corrie Ten Boom “The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins” -- Søren Kierkegaard Current Tank Info: ghetto grad school reef.....11g rimless tank, 36X9X9, lit by Cree and Rebels scobbled together. Stocked mostly with free stuff I got from panhandling my fellow reefers. |
11/07/2009, 08:52 PM | #31 |
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11/07/2009, 09:23 PM | #32 |
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Yes red the flakes are rather silver and rather obvious And I agree with "kay" last post, be sure it is that brand only unless you know for absolute sure.with some other brand. And it is Al and not Mg in drain cleaners. Mixing NaOH and magnesium is not a bright idea
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If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Seawater Chemistry, Geology, ID Marine Life, Collecting Science Books, Explosives Technology, Audiophile An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be. |
11/07/2009, 10:24 PM | #33 |
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could you not use Lye as your source for OH- ions...?
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11/07/2009, 10:33 PM | #34 |
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Yes, you can use Lye. It's just another term for NaOH or KOH.
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11/08/2009, 07:04 AM | #35 |
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I had forgotten all about lye. doh!
But would then ensuing reaction be bright?
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"The measure of a life is not its duration but its donation." Corrie Ten Boom “The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins” -- Søren Kierkegaard Current Tank Info: ghetto grad school reef.....11g rimless tank, 36X9X9, lit by Cree and Rebels scobbled together. Stocked mostly with free stuff I got from panhandling my fellow reefers. |
11/08/2009, 10:54 AM | #36 |
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Yes
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11/08/2009, 01:48 PM | #37 |
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Hey, this seems to work
I changed GFO this morning to regenerated version and PO4 has dropped from 0.07 to 0.03 ppm (typically I have *higher* PO4 at evening because of all the feeding during day).
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Tatu Vaajalahti Tampere, Finland Current Tank Info: 240 gal + 50 gal sump,SDSB,LR,ATB Medium, 2x250W HQI + actinic,Balling |
11/08/2009, 01:53 PM | #38 |
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Based on Cliffs observations here, I wonder how many folks might get some useful regeneration from vinegar?
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1735852
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Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef |
11/08/2009, 02:05 PM | #39 |
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Thanks for the link!
I don't have any visible CaCO3 deposits on the GFO yet it bubbles nicely with vinegar I'll use vinegar bath as a first stage next time.
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Tatu Vaajalahti Tampere, Finland Current Tank Info: 240 gal + 50 gal sump,SDSB,LR,ATB Medium, 2x250W HQI + actinic,Balling |
11/08/2009, 10:28 PM | #40 |
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Cool thread guys
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If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Seawater Chemistry, Geology, ID Marine Life, Collecting Science Books, Explosives Technology, Audiophile An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be. |
11/09/2009, 06:57 AM | #41 |
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Wouldn't GFO bubble in vinegar anyhow since it is/contains hydroxide?
And agreed with Boomer. Major cool thread. Anytime we can regenerate something and get longer life out of it, it's good for our economy, and good for the environment (recycle!). You know how bad old GFO fills up our landfills
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"The measure of a life is not its duration but its donation." Corrie Ten Boom “The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins” -- Søren Kierkegaard Current Tank Info: ghetto grad school reef.....11g rimless tank, 36X9X9, lit by Cree and Rebels scobbled together. Stocked mostly with free stuff I got from panhandling my fellow reefers. |
11/09/2009, 07:18 AM | #42 |
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No, hydroxide does not bubble in acid. Only carbonates (and bicarbonates) do.
OH- + H+ ---> H2O CO3-- + 2H+ ---> H2CO3 ---> H2O + CO2
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Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef Last edited by Randy Holmes-Farley; 11/09/2009 at 07:24 AM. |
11/09/2009, 08:29 PM | #43 | |
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Quote:
Your opening post said you were processing 3 kg of spent GFO in 1M NaOH for a week's time. You didn't mention, however, what the approximate volume of NaOH solution you were using and I'm curious. Was it an equal volume? Just enough to cover the GFO? Twice the volume? More? Randy: I just found this recently issued patent that's relevant to this process: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/75...scription.html Interesting, eh?
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Tom Current Tank Info: 210 SPS dominated tank w/ 350G in-system; GSA custom-12 Skimmer w/ 2 modified DC-6000's; running kalkstirrer & Ca Reactor; cabon & biopellets; ozone; Reeflo main pump. Last edited by Origami2547; 11/09/2009 at 09:06 PM. |
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11/10/2009, 12:27 AM | #44 | |||
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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11/10/2009, 07:20 AM | #45 |
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At least the patent can't stop anyone from using sodium hydroxide as the claims all relate to fertilizers and potassium hydroxide.
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11/13/2009, 11:59 PM | #46 |
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Been 25 years since I was chem major (briefly). Lately I've been recovering a system that had been let go. The chemistry is coming back. The nitrogen family is under control and now I'm working on phosphorus. An ATS did the job so far but I added some BRS HC GFO last week. This thread inspired me to recycle.
This afternoon I put about 400g of BRS HC GFO into 4 liters of roughly 1 molar NaOH. The GFO had spent 4 days taking 180 gallons from just shy of 1.0ppm phosphate to about 0.05ppm phosphate. (It's back above 0.25 within 6 hours already). I stirred it about once an hour. A yellow (orange??) precipitate developed (iron(III) phosphate maybe??). The color settles. So I guess it's from solid molecules not ions (note that it's been a long time and memory fails me). I had rinsed the GFO with RODI until it ran clear before I started. After 4 hours I stirred and took a bit of fluid out. Diluted 100x, have the equip to do that. Measured about 1.0ppm with my Sailfert phosphate kit. A bit concerned that the PH of that even diluted 100x must be something like 11. I drained off the solution abot two hours ago, rinsed and drained three times with about 4 liters of RODI, and mixed up 4 liters again. There's a bit of precipitate now, two hours later, but MUCH MUCH less than the first time. I'll try to measure phosphates in the morning. Anyone know How much I need to worry about the PH when I run the test? |
11/14/2009, 03:46 AM | #47 |
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schnitm,
Great to have a chemist around! As far as I know, reactive (ortho) phosphate kits acidify the sample so high pH might be a concern. Here in Finland "distilled" vinegar is PO4 free (it is actually made from acetic acid and water, 10% solution) so I used it to bring the pH down before testing (I'm out of sulfuric acid ) From Merck manual (the kit I use): "The pH must be within the range 0 - 10. Adjust, if necessary, with sulfuric acid."
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Tatu Vaajalahti Tampere, Finland Current Tank Info: 240 gal + 50 gal sump,SDSB,LR,ATB Medium, 2x250W HQI + actinic,Balling |
11/14/2009, 10:12 AM | #48 |
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schnitm
A yellow (orange??) precipitate developed (iron(III) phosphate maybe??). The color settles. So I guess it's from solid molecules not ions (note that it's been a long time and memory fails me) More than likely Iron Orthophosphate, FePO4. We call these "salts", the word you are looking for, instead of molecules Salt is an ionic compound formed by the ionic bond of + and - Ions. Fe+++ + PO4--- ====> FePO4
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11/14/2009, 10:21 AM | #49 |
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And likely iron hydroxide too.
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Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef |
11/14/2009, 01:07 PM | #50 |
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Thanks guys!
I guess what I was trying to get across was I think it's not just swapping phosphate for hydroxide. Looks like some iron's coming off too. And it looks like it's taking more of whatever salt off than it can hold in solution. Wonder how many times you can do this before the GFO just disolves? Been a long time since I've done real chemistry. Funny thing...the university made me one of the directors of an immunology/genetics lab. All kinds of cool chemistry going on in there. The techs know better than to let me touch anything though! My real lab is full of computers. |
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