Brightwell Aquatics Kalk+2 - Advanced Kalkwasser Supplement w/Calc., Stron., Mag.

[Charlie's Angel]

Does anyone us this or is anyone familiar with it?

Still researching things?

[bertoni]

I've never heard of it. Can you provide a link? I don't see how a kalk-based supplement can provide magnesium, off-hand.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'd like to check it out too. Magnesium in limewater is a poor idea, since it won't dissolve.

[oct2274]

everything on their site is flash so it is hard to link to

http://www.brightwellaquatics.com/

they have msds sheets in pdf form

[Charlie's Angel]

Beat me too it...thanks for providing the link...I found it on Champions Lighting ... I know nothing about chemistry but this would be nice if it worked.

[bertoni]

Hydroxides of calcium, magnesium and strontium. I don't see how the magnesium would work all that well. I suppose if the solution was stirred and the magnesium pumped into the tank as a precipitate, it might then dissolve. Sounds messy, though.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So sad. Another case of a company not understanding their own product. At least I hope that's the case, and it is not an intentional scam.

"Formulated by a marine scientist"

Well, that marine scientist apparently does not understand chemistry, and apparently did not read my article where I demonstrated that such a product could not work the way he describes.

No, it cannot be used like normal limewater, as the magnesium will be totally insoluble and will settle to the bottom of a reactor or a still limewater reservoir. But he also says it should not be dosed directly, and must be dissolved first, so there is no way to use the magnesium.

I show that magnesium settles out of limewater here:

Magnesium and Strontium in Limewater
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/dec2003/chem.htm

[Charlie's Angel]

Thanks guys

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Happy Reefing.

[mrme]

The person who owns that site is Kent, Formerly the scientist for All/most of the Kent Products.
So i am sure he knows his science.. What makes me worried is that is his new stuff isn't good, then how OFF is the Kent Supplies...=O

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes. Unfortunately, he took some bad ideas that Kent used for products with him. I've debated Kent liquid reactor with him, since I believe cannot function as Kent claims. He did little to convince me he knew what he was talking about, aside from the party line defense of the product concept.

He now has a product, Liquid Reef, that sounds to me like Liquid Reactor (or Purple Up) made worse by adding calcium, making it an unbalanced additive. Not sure what situation someone would want to use that, even if it worked as claimed.

[VitalApparatus]

Has anyone done any REAL testing? Im not doubting Mr Holmes - Farley 's theory but I would have to think that a company would do some testing of its own to see if this is actually going to provide mag or not.
I happen to use it and with great results I would say . My calcium needs are moderate so its the proper fit for my system and my SPS and clams are growing so I must be getting enough mag from somewhere (Reef Crystals??).Any way just wondering. Thinking about taking a sample of my display water to the LFS for testing. I dont keep a Mag test about.

[reefgeezer]

Originally Posted by VitalApparatus

Has anyone done any REAL testing? Im not doubting Mr Holmes - Farley 's theory but I would have to think that a company would do some testing of its own to see if this is actually going to provide mag or not.
I happen to use it and with great results I would say . My calcium needs are moderate so its the proper fit for my system and my SPS and clams are growing so I must be getting enough mag from somewhere (Reef Crystals??).Any way just wondering. Thinking about taking a sample of my display water to the LFS for testing. I dont keep a Mag test about.

Companies rely on the thinking "I use it and everything is good so it must be working". Magnesium in a low to medium demand system doesn't fall very quickly. In most cases water changes (and maybe, possibly, sometimes an addition of a little bit of a magnesium solution) will maintain the required level.

I'm not a chemist, and have relied on Randy's knowledge for a quite a while. I trust his opinion when it comes to what will and will not work. I am an ex-LFS owner. Back in the day, I sold the *&@! out of Kent products and swore by them. I still use their salt, but I know a little more about the industry now. Despite what they say in their advertising, companies are in the business of making profit not improving your reef. Testing is expensive and would often prove a profitable product doesn't perform as advertised. They just don't do it.

[disc1]

Originally Posted by VitalApparatus

Has anyone done any REAL testing? Im not doubting Mr Holmes - Farley 's theory but I would have to think that a company would do some testing of its own to see if this is actually going to provide mag or not.
I happen to use it and with great results I would say . My calcium needs are moderate so its the proper fit for my system and my SPS and clams are growing so I must be getting enough mag from somewhere (Reef Crystals??).Any way just wondering. Thinking about taking a sample of my display water to the LFS for testing. I dont keep a Mag test about.

The tests were done many many many years ago when chemists could still get by publishing the solubilities of salts and properties of the elements. Those days are gone now. But the data still remains. Solubility is solubility whether it's in a fish tank with a fish tank suppliment, or in the lab with pure salts. So I don't see any reason to repeat those experiments any more than I would need to conduct an experiment to prove that I would die if I couldn't breathe.

[m2434]

You really shouldn't need to raise mg ever if using RCs. RC is very high in mg and water changes with RC should keep mg in check and then some, even in high demand systems. I think, in the last 10 years, I've only needed to raise mg once, when using a salt high in mg and that was because I misread the test kit and actually didn't need to LOL. Also Randy did test at elevated pH. I don't have the link handy from my phone, but I think it was in reefkeeping. Called something like "what is that precipitate". Also worth reading is an advanced aquarist article called something like "Magnesium and strontium in limewater" if you do a web search, it they should be easy to find. Or someone else may have a link...


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[m2434]

I am now at a real computer, so, here are those links:

Magnesium hydroxide precipitation due to high pH is discussed here:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/index.php

Magnesium already in normal kalk and other good info here:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/12/chemistry

[VitalApparatus]

Thank you m2434!

[m2434]

Of course, no problem Vital

[billsreef]

Keep in mind, Randy is a Phd chemist with no financial interests in aquarium products. Brightwell (and other manufacturers) have a vested interest in marketing products. How well something actually works tends to take a back seat to how well it markets in most all supplements on the LFS shelf.

[rtparty]

Originally Posted by m2434

You really shouldn't need to raise mg ever if using RCs. RC is very high in mg and water changes with RC should keep mg in check and then some, even in high demand systems.

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I disagree with this statement. RC was the worst salt I ever used in this hobby in 6 years. I would go back to Oceanic long before I touched a bucket of RC again.

I did weekly water changes on my 24g tank and my Magnesium dropped into the 900s still. When I tested a fresh batch of RC my Mg reading was below 1100, that is not "very high in mg" to me. That is very low in Mg actually.

Not starting a fight but your statement was a very blanket statement.

Back on topic....

I believe Randy long before I will EVER believe an aquarium company. They are out to make money in a very small market. They will sell you ANYTHING to make a buck. I think Brightwell Aquatics is a great marketing company with very poor products. The more I research them out, the more I avoid any of their of stuff. I still use their bacteria product but I will switch to a different brand when the time comes.

[m2434]

Originally Posted by rtparty

I disagree with this statement. RC was the worst salt I ever used in this hobby in 6 years. I would go back to Oceanic long before I touched a bucket of RC again.

I did weekly water changes on my 24g tank and my Magnesium dropped into the 900s still. When I tested a fresh batch of RC my Mg reading was below 1100, that is not "very high in mg" to me. That is very low in Mg actually.

Not starting a fight but your statement was a very blanket statement.

I can't say why you get 1100. Current values @ 1.026 should be about 1440:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1714505

This is about what I find when I test my mixed water as well....

[VitalApparatus]

Well dont get me wrong I fully believe RHF and have relied on his opinion on more times than just this. I was just wanting to understand better.

[elegance coral]

Would it be correct to say that Brightwell's Kalk+2 is simply listing the mag and strontium, that is present in virtually all Kalk? Basically the +2 is just a marketing ploy and their kalk is no better than the majority out there. Are they listing the impurities that naturally come with kalk as if it sets their product apart from the rest????????

[tmz]

Don't know where the calimed mag comes from. If they add it, it still won't stay in solution at kalkwasser . So relying on it for magnesium supplementation won't work either way.

[VitalApparatus]

I took my water to the LFS here as Mag is one of the tests I dont keep at home. Im at 1350 with no other supplements but Kalk+.However reef crystals is known to be high in magnesium so I would assume Im staying covered by doing water changes.