Chloramines problem

[boobookitty]

Looks like I have an issue with chloramines in the water supply. I’ve added a chloramine filtering carbon block to my RODI, but what about the stuff in tank already? Aside from repeated water changes, any way to get chloramines out? Had suggestions of Amquel or Prime, which I’ve used in a QT tank before: any issues with using them in a large tank (400G) for a while?

[ramseynb]

I wouldn't do anything. Maybe run some carbon or do some water changes. The main problem with chloramine is it's a combination of chlorine and AMMONIA. So you're basically adding ammonia to your tank if you're not filtering for chloramines. Assuming your tank is cycled, your biological filter should handle it.

[Zalick]

I'm not sure Ramseynb is correct re the main problem being the ammonia and that the biological filter will break it down. The ammonia molecule is added to the chlorine molecule specifically because it does not readily break down like chlorine.

UV and GAC break it down. Depending on the level you are measuring in your tank, I would do a water change, run then run GAC slowly if you have a reactor and possibly use some amquel. GAC breaks it down but requires a long contact time.

I have a gallon of amquel on hand for this exact reason. I test for break through diligently and just installed a big blue 20" chloramine block on my RO unit to take care of it.

[boobookitty]

Thanks. For the main tank would I just fully dose according to directions, or use a lower dose? Any issues with Amquel and corals or inverts?

[Zalick]

Originally Posted by boobookitty

Thanks. For the main tank would I just fully dose according to directions, or use a lower dose? Any issues with Amquel and corals or inverts?

I am far from the expert on chloramines but I have battled with them in my water. Hopefully someone with more knowledge specifically about chloramines will jump in.

Have you measured the level in your tank? The one time I had a worry and used Prime on my DT, I had measurable amounts of chloramine in the tank. This was very concerning for me because I know it last a long time in the water, which is why many/most municipal water treatment facilities are using it.

I did a 30% water change and used Prime. I can't remember how much I used but I doubt I used the full dose. Most likely I used half the dose and then checked the levels again. I bought the gallon of Amquel after this for emergency purposes. I think the recommended Amquel does is MUCH stronger than the equivalent Prime dose.

If you have measurable chloramine, I would do a 30% water change, test, and if still measurable, use half or quarter the dose of Prime and re-test.

Again, hopefully someone with chloramine experience will chime in like tkeracer619.

I've dosed Prime on my DT and my QT tanks and never had any adverse effects.

[boobookitty]

Were you testing with strips from a pool store, or is there a better way?

[Zalick]

Originally Posted by boobookitty

Were you testing with strips from a pool store, or is there a better way?

I use hana total chlorine. But there are total chlorine strips you can get from BRS or Marine Depot.

Total chlorine measures total and free. The difference is the chloramine level.

Have you seen any change in your corals etc?

[boobookitty]

Yah, corals have been suffering with virtually all other parameters in good shape. I’ve suspected chloramine for a while, and got confirmation LADWP adds chloramines.

The Hanna can be used to yet salt water, or just fresh?

[Zalick]

Originally Posted by boobookitty

Yah, corals have been suffering with virtually all other parameters in good shape. I’ve suspected chloramine for a while, and got confirmation LADWP adds chloramines.

The Hanna can be used to yet salt water, or just fresh?

Yup. Hanna Total Chlorine for $49 at either Marine Depot or BRS is good for salt. You can also use the LaMotte Total Chlorine test strips. I use the Hanna because I'm color blind and the color based tests are too hard for me to see.

When I process 400 gallons of water to yield 100 gallons of RO water, it will burn through a regular .5 micron carbon block. So if you've had a regular carbon block in there for a long time, you probably have hurt your RO membrane and have chloramines in the tank.

I wouldn't take any big measures until you test. Since you have a large system like I do, you should consider adding the 20" big blue with a chloramine cartridge to your RO unit. Make sure you have a sediment filter before it though so it doesn't get fouled up.. Its about $50 for the housing and $80 for the cartridge but it lasts a LONG time. tkeracer has been using the same cartridge for about 2 or 3 years now. He documents it in this thread.

[Dsekula]

Originally Posted by boobookitty

Looks like I have an issue with chloramines in the water supply. I’ve added a chloramine filtering carbon block to my RODI, but what about the stuff in tank already? Aside from repeated water changes, any way to get chloramines out? Had suggestions of Amquel or Prime, which I’ve used in a QT tank before: any issues with using them in a large tank (400G) for a while?

Hi just thought I'd share a little of the science side of this.

When chlorine is added to disinfect water there are different parts to the chlorine. The initial reaction that happens between the chlorine and bacterial or other substance yields a weaker disinfectant called chloramine. This is normally what you smell when you enter an indoor pool (the byproduct or chloramine).
I don't want to get all technical here but there are some things to consider.
First that while these parts are related they will increase or decrease independently from each other. Temperature and pH along with other parameters influence this reaction. Another is that most treatment processes for chlorine in general will work to some extent for chloramine. The product we use in the drinking water industry to remove chlorine for discharge to a body of water (think flushing fire hydrants to a stream) is sodium thiosulfate. This is very effective, a little goes a very long way, you would add this prior to other filters etc in an rodi system btw. You can also add a carbon block to your tank with a small pump and filter for a temporary fix.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

[ramseynb]

I’m not an expert either, but the only issue I had was higher nutrients which would fuel cyano. If the chlorine part of it made it through, wouldn’t any invert be severally impacted with just a small amount?

[alton]

Check your Chlorine / Chloramine levels, if over 2 add something like this
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-r...s-monster.html
2" x 10" filters do not hold enough material to remove all chlorine and you end up burning through R/O membranes. Especially if you want to use a booster pump, there just isn't enough contact time. Many times my tap water total and free chlorine is around 4 which is higher than my pool. I have asked my water supply to stop using Chloramines, but to no avail.

[boobookitty]

Update: I got a chlorabuster-style solution (the 20BB 4.5x20 filter and canister...my god, this thing is huge); haven't plumbed it in yet. Also picked up a Hanna total chlorine test kit. Ran some tests and found the following:

Total chlorine in my tap water: 0.38
Total chlorine coming out of RODI unit: 0.0
Total chlorine in the DT: 0.0

So with a regular chlorine-flitering 10" canister as part of the RODI unit, I don't get any chlorine out of the RODI. Now, I did change the canister last week when I started suspecting chlorine as an issue, and the old canister was pretty old, so maybe chlorine was leaking through until that change. I also think LADWP add it sporadically, so maybe I'm not seeing it in this snapshot.

But with zero total chlorine in the tank, does that mean I haven't had an issue, or would any chlorine that got through have broken down by now and still may have caused trouble? I'm still going to plumb in the chlorabuster unit; I know my local water company (LADWP) has announced they use chloramines. Just trying to ascertain whether chlorine was really my problem...

[alton]

You need to check chlorine before the membrane, the membrane will remove some but end up going bad very quickly.

[boobookitty]

Total chlorine going into the RO from the new chlorine block (not the chlorabuster, that hasn’t been plumbed yet) is zero, but as I mentioned, it was recently replaced. TDS coming out of the RODI is zero (I replace the DI resin when TDS even gets to 1), and total chlorine is also zero.