Easy Tunze Ozmolator based Auto Water Change system

[lawndude]

What a great write up very helpful

[btldreef]

Originally Posted by scolley

Thanks! I'm flattered you like the concept. But you may not need it. That is if you are doing it because your AC Jr won't turn off your Aqualifter. Neptune controllers cannot turn off low power devices like that unless you have them plugged into a DC4, or sockets 4 or 8 on a late model DC8 or those same sockets on a Powerbar. With a Jr you likely have a DC8. So try switching to socket 4 or 8. If that doesnt work, you have an older DC8. A newer one, or a DC4 will (on those same two sockets).

Aside from that, if you do adopt this solution, with a 180g you'll be changing a lot more water than I do in my 29g. And my fill pump burned out in a couple of years. You might consider finding a more reliable fill pump with similar electrical requirements - so the Osmolator can drive it. Or hook the relay up to a second relay that will use the power from the Osmolator to turn on a 120v circuit to power a more powerful pump.

Pls post on how it works out!

thanks scolley for the advice i didn't realize the ports 4 and 8 on the dc8 were relay sockets. i had tried plugging it in to ports 2 and 6 in that kept them running. i change aprox 30g out a week... i have about 230g in my entire system. so i figured if i change out about a little less then 5 gallons a day i should be fine. i might just use maxi jets 600s to get the 5 gallons in and out... i just have to plumb them so that they don't create a siphon. not sure if i have them turn on through out the day or just make them operate in "feed mode" on my ac jr. so that i am there just in case something happens.

i still need to find a good plastic 40 gallon tank to hold fresh ro. found places online but the shipping is a killer. going to ask some lfs today see if they can point me to the right direction.

[gitsoe]

Awesome I'll try this out

[scolley]

Originally Posted by lawndude

What a great write up very helpful

Thank you!

Originally Posted by btldreef

... i might just use maxi jets 600s to get the 5 gallons in and out... i just have to plumb them so that they don't create a siphon.

The whole siphon - or backflow - problem is a common one for many AWC solutions. My diagram in the front of this thread shows the saltwater being pumped into the DT. I initially had it set up that way to avoid back-siphon issues. I've since shifted to pumping both salt and fresh into my sump. But it's required special attention to both the level of the hose, and the level of the water underneath them. I.E. - if the water in my sump were to ever reach as high as the hose discharging the salt water, it could initiate a back-siphon. Which has happened - through my not paying attention to the discharge hose level - and the back-siphon it created was a BIG problem. But that was a "Operator Error", per se. Not a problem with this particular solution. So I did not post about it here. And such a mistake is not remotely unique to this solution - it's common for MOST AWC solution. But it's an area where you've GOT to be careful.

Originally Posted by btldreef

... not sure if i have them turn on through out the day or just make them operate in "feed mode" on my ac jr. so that i am there just in case something happens.

I'm not really understanding you're point there. But I'd highly encourage you to post that - and any - Neptune problems on that forum. There are SO many Neptune controller owners (I've got three!) that you will find that you get great support for even the most trivial of questions. It's a great sub-community within the larger RC community.

Originally Posted by btldreef

i still need to find a good plastic 40 gallon tank to hold fresh ro. found places online but the shipping is a killer.

If you haven't already, be sure and look at USPlastic.com

Originally Posted by gitsoe

Awesome I'll try this out

Please posts how it works out. IMO I've made this seem harder than it really is. It's actually pretty simple, and seems to work very well. I love my Neptune controllers, but I'm really happy with the level sensing of the Ozmolators and having one set of sensors controlling level for both ATO and AWC just seems to make sense.

I hope it works out well. But even if it doesn't, please post your results. Thanks.

[btldreef]

okay.. it took me a little bit to figure out the dpdt 120v relay. (i have automotive experience so i am used to spdt relays.) but i have success.
parts that i used:

dpdt 120v relay
2x4 project box
6 x screw connectors for quick connections
2 x ac cords
ultralife auto top off (had this for a year or so great ato)
maxi jet 400 for removing water
maxi jet 600 for replacing water
aqualifter 20 pump for ato
20 gallon tub for now looking for 40gallon
2 x float switch




as far as connections go:
relay
7 -8 input ac cord to turn on, ac jr. when in feed mode
5-6 input ac cord to 120v ac wall outlet
3-4 output to maxi jets in parallel
1-2 output ac to ato before relay that runs the ato unit.

in the project box i had split the to "hot" lines that go to the outputs for the maxi jets to got to float switches. this is to insure nothing overfills/spill etc.
i had at first ran the new water to the display tank but realized i need a stronger pump because of the amount of distance it has to travel. i did route the piping to run vertical and to be further above the surface of its destination. this solves the siphon issue.

i set this awc system to initiate only if the ac jr. is put into feed mode. the feed mode interval is set to 1 minute. this takes aprox 2 gallons out and puts a little more the 2 gallons in. this also obviously through the relay shuts the ato off for that minute. i am going to have to check salinity and fine tune but i think i should be ok.

thanks so much scolley... i have been searching for some time for a basic idea on this and you opened up the door. it is very easy just need some basic electrical knowledge.

[scolley]

Originally Posted by btldreef

okay.. it took me a little bit to figure out the dpdt 120v relay. (i have automotive experience so i am used to spdt relays.) but i have success...

Hey, GREAT work! And thanks for posting that!

I'm particularly encouraged by the fact that you DID NOT follow my OP system, but adapted the solution to your specific needs!

I was just a little too close to the problem to see what you clearly recognized... the value of this idea is not tightly coupled to an Ozmolator. It adapts just fine to other controlled ATO solutions. The relay is the heart of the solution - switching between fresh water ATO and saltwater refill.

Also, congrats on seeing the "limitation" of the system, specifically that it will slowly drive your salinity up. However, that has not been a problem for me because I use fresh saltwater that is ever so slightly lower salinity than my target tank salinity. And because I keep my drain/refill cycles very consistent over time. Those things combined will keep your salinity both stable, and where you want it.

Thanks for posting, and PLEASE post updates - even if negative. If this is worth doing, it's worth understanding both the good AND the bad.

Good job on the unique solution! Looking forward to great progress on your MUCH larger tank.

[scolley]

Originally Posted by btldreef

okay.. it took me a little bit to figure out the dpdt 120v relay. (i have automotive experience so i am used to spdt relays.) but i have success...

Hey, GREAT work! And thanks for posting that!

I'm particularly encouraged by the fact that you DID NOT follow my OP system, but adapted the solution to your specific needs!

I was just a little too close to the problem to see what you clearly recognized... the value of this idea is not tightly coupled to an Ozmolator. It adapts just fine to other controlled ATO solutions. The relay is the heart of the solution - switching between fresh water ATO and saltwater refill.

But congrats on seeing the "limitation" of the system, specifically that it will slowly drive your salinity up. However, that has not been a problem for me because I use fresh saltwater that is ever so slightly lower salinity than my target tank salinity. And because I keep my drain/refill cycles very consistent over time. Those things combined will keep your salinity both stable, and where you want it.

Thanks for posting, and PLEASE post updates - even if negative. If this is worth doing, it's worth understanding the good AND the bad.

Good job on the unique solution!

[btldreef]

do we start a new thread? a title that states that it can be done universally? i don't mean to steal your thunder you did give me all the necessary parts list and concepts to make this functional.

oh ya and before i even used an ato, i did compensate for the amount of salt needed so it did not creep up. i used leave a half cup out of the fresh mixed salted water.

[scolley]

Start another thread... ? By all means, please do!

This thread will always have a limited audience because of the Ozmolator OP reference. If you start a new one, it serves a much larger community.

And that's the whole point. Right?

Oh yeah... any new thread's value will be largely determined by its name. Just as the name of this thead diminishes its own. So do choose carefully.

[OregonReefer]

Something that might help with the 10 minute shutdown is using 1/2" tubing on the Ozmolator pump... They move a huge amount of water (considering their size) if you get rid of that dinky tubing

I only discovered this because there must have been a blockage in my new kit's tubing... I happened to have some tubing sitting right next to me and gave it a shot

[scolley]

Originally Posted by OregonReefer

Something that might help with the 10 minute shutdown is using 1/2" tubing on the Ozmolator pump... They move a huge amount of water (considering their size) if you get rid of that dinky tubing

Really? Wow!

When you tried this, how high was it pumping the water? I'm assuming it was fairly level because of my experience with the pumps not doing a very good job with head height over a couple of feet. So I'm assuming it only gets worse when you pump larger volumes.

But that's great to know! Thanks for posting that.

[OregonReefer]

It's pumping level but when it kicks on it pumps about a half gallon in a hand full of seconds... like 5 seconds... and the pump seems a lot less stressed.

I would guess (I mean really guess) that larger tubing would provide less surface friction at head and provide a better exchange

[scolley]

I'm not exactly sure what speed mine's pumping anymore... Would have to dig thru old notes. But I think it's more like half a gallon in a few minutes, a far, far cry from tha volume in a few seconds. Granted mine is pushing about a foot of head. But that's an impressive difference.

Maybe the Osmolator could push small w/c's for larger tanks. It sounds like the trick is low head, and your larger tubing diameter suggestion. Thanks!

[scolley]

In a separate thread another RC member, MentalNote, had a GREAT idea. He suggested simplifying this setup with a switch that eliminates the controller and the relay. It would be for manual use only, but would still have the benefit of levels being controlled by the Ozmolator.

To make it you replace my relay with a simple DPDT on-off-on toggle switch. And the process of filling after a drain cycle would be as follows:

1. Switch toggle normally is in the up position - normal ATO operation where RO/DI water pump is connected to the Ozmolator.
2. Move toggle to middle neutral position - no refill at all, neither ATO pump, nor saltwater pump is connected to the Ozmolator current.
3. Drain the sump.
4. Move toggle to the down position - connecting the saltwater reservoir pump to the Ozmolator, which should begin refilling. Wait until re-filling stops.
5. Switch toggle back to the up position - back to normal ATO operation.

Sounds like a great way to get the benefit of having an Ozmolator control the level of both ATO and saltwater replacement without the expense of a controller. Hat's off to MenatNote. Great suggestion!

[ASpec]

Originally Posted by scolley

In a separate thread another RC member, MentalNote, had a GREAT idea. He suggested simplifying this setup with a switch that eliminates the controller and the relay. It would be for manual use only, but would still have the benefit of levels being controlled by the Ozmolator.

To make it you replace my relay with a simple DPDT on-off-on toggle switch. And the process of filling after a drain cycle would be as follows:

1. Switch toggle normally is in the up position - normal ATO operation where RO/DI water pump is connected to the Ozmolator.
2. Move toggle to middle neutral position - no refill at all, neither ATO pump, nor saltwater pump is connected to the Ozmolator current.
3. Drain the sump.
4. Move toggle to the down position - connecting the saltwater reservoir pump to the Ozmolator, which should begin refilling. Wait until re-filling stops.
5. Switch toggle back to the up position - back to normal ATO operation.

Sounds like a great way to get the benefit of having an Ozmolator control the level of both ATO and saltwater replacement without the expense of a controller. Hat's off to MenatNote. Great suggestion!

I know this thread is somewhat old, but did MentalNote write up how to wire this solution? (if he did, I can't seem to find it, I saw the suggestion but not a detailed diagram) I am getting ready to setup this solution for water change with my Tunze but I don't want it automated, I want to manually do the water changes so the manual switch idea appeals to me but I don't know how to wire the switch up. It would seem you'd need a 3 way switch for this to work.

Thanks

[scolley]

I never saw a diagram. Actually the DPDP on-off-on was my idea, he just described the function in a limited way. But his concept was outstanding, and wiring it should be WICKED easy.

Unless you buy something unusual, all DPDT on-off-on, center-off switches should have 6 contacts, wired pretty much the same way... two rows of three contacts - three contacts on a side. The two in the middle are power. So those go to your Osmolator. Then the wire pairs on the opposite ends are what you will wire the motors to - one motor to the pair on one end, the other motor wires to the opposite end.

Like this... if these six symbols below were the the contacts on the switch:

P1+ P1-
Os+ Os-
P2+ P2-

You hook the first pump up two contacts on one end, P1+ up to the pump's positive wire and P1- to the negative wire. Then do the same for the second pump, hooking it up the same way to the P2+ and P2- contacts on the opposite end. Finally hook the Osmolator's wires to the middle two contacts; its positive wire to Os+ and its negative to Os-.

Then toggling the switch all the way in one direction will run one pump. Toggled all the way the other direction will will run the other pump, and the middle position will turn both pumps off.

Easy peasy.

[ASpec]

Easy peasy.

Looks like it now, thanks so much for the information. I was trying to figure out how the switch would be wired and since I'm not familiar with wiring a DPDT switch I would not picture it, but now I can. Thanks again!

[scolley]

Your welcome!

If you get it working, a post to let everyone know how it worked out would be great. Thanks.

[Thatgrimguy]

Thanks for this!! I set mine up exactly like Powerman's. It fits my needs perfectly! Been running for about a month now.

[Steveb]

Also if you wanted to continue using the osmolator controller but wanted to use maxijets or something like that it looks like you can get an adapter from Tunze called a "Switched Socket Outlet (3150.110)". Does add to the cost but thought I would throw it out there.

[scolley]

Originally Posted by Thatgrimguy

Thanks for this!! I set mine up exactly like Powerman's. It fits my needs perfectly! Been running for about a month now.

Looks great. Please post any issues or problems for us to learn from. But I doubt you'll have many.

Good luck!

[scolley]

Originally Posted by baringcs

Also if you wanted to continue using the osmolator controller but wanted to use maxijets or something like that it looks like you can get an adapter from Tunze called a "Switched Socket Outlet (3150.110)". Does add to the cost but thought I would throw it out there.

Great tip! Thanks Steve.

So this would be how to hook up some pump other than an the pumps that come with the Osmolator. Outstanding!

[scolley]

I haven't posted in this thread in a while, thought I'd pass along a little tip for this gizmo...

Over time I've found a great additional use - drip acclimating.

My total system is only 40g. So a session drip acclimating new livestock from tank water is a problem. Without this it means shutting off the ATO and continually replacing lost tank water with saltwater. But with this, its so much easier.

All you do is energize the switch, and now the lost water is replaced with saltwater, all managed by the Osmolator. The only "gotcha" is that after calculating, you MUST remember it stop the power to the switch. Forget and you keep topping off with saltwater.

As long as you can remember to turn off what you turned on, and this is a nice little bonus to this contraption.

[Thatgrimguy]

Originally Posted by scolley

I haven't posted in this thread in a while, thought I'd pass along a little tip for this gizmo...

Over time I've found a great additional use - drip acclimating.

My total system is only 40g. So a session drip acclimating new livestock from tank water is a problem. Without this it means shutting off the ATO and continually replacing lost tank water with saltwater. But with this, its so much easier.

All you do is energize the switch, and now the lost water is replaced with saltwater, all managed by the Osmolator. The only "gotcha" is that after calculating, you MUST remember it stop the power to the switch. Forget and you keep topping off with saltwater.

As long as you can remember to turn off what you turned on, and this is a nice little bonus to this contraption.

Another great and similar use I have found already is when I'm running the dust out of fresh carbon or gfo in a reactor... Activate the switch and the SW is automatically replaced!!

[rcharliesam]

Very interesting thread. I just ordered my osmolator, I might have to try this down the road. Thank you.