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Old 07/31/2003, 12:32 AM   #76
Acrylics
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zephrant
Acrylics- Have you found a source for 1oz glass syringes? I've been using 2oz squeeze bottles, but a local jobber has these big glass syringes that he says are the best.
Zeph,
Sure, we get them here in Portland if you're ever down this way
I just don't like them 'cuz if you don't clean them out right away the plunger sticks in the syringe. With poly syringes, you can leave them in there, let the 40 cure and just blow the plunger and 40 plug right out with compressed air (target practice). The other thing is that I rarely apply 40 with just the syringe - normally I put a vinyl or silicone hose over the nipple of the syringe so I can get into tight places easier.
All that said, we can get them for you should you wish.

James


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Old 07/31/2003, 12:52 AM   #77
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Originally posted by melev


I think I want to attempt to build an acrylic tank to replace my 29g. Using cell cast acrylic, would 3/8" be a good thickness for a tank that is 30 x 20 x 20? I'm going to put a black acrylic wall in the rear, to hide a closed loop pump and provide a real overflow with drilled holes in the base. Because it is acryliic, I may notch the rear to make room for my Remora to hang on the back.

I'd like to stay with 3/8", so if 20" is too tall for that thickness, I could drop it down to 18". Would that still swell too much?

My current tank is glass, 30 x 12 x 18.
Marc,
You should be fine with that thickness. The only thing that may concern me is the notch for the skimmer. Is this to be in the top or the actual back of the tank?
Keep in mind, some mfrs (no names this time, jab jab) use 1/4" on 55 gal tanks, not that I recommend this - but...

Would that swell too much? Marc? All cell cast acrylic absorbs water but not more than about 1% by weight so I wouldn't worry about swelling too much.

BTW, I know I should stop buggin' yo about it but when you gonna build that tank? or is this another step in that direction? If so - are you starting to feel more confident/comfortable with it?
Don't make me build it for you

HTH,
James


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Old 07/31/2003, 01:34 AM   #78
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When I saw 'notch', I was thinking that although it should be a perfect rectangle, for me to have room for the Remora, I'd have to inset about 4" x 8" across the back. (The actual back of the tank.) Which would break up the rectangular shape. Perhaps I can hang it off the rear side corner instead....

If it does swell, it would distort the view, and make photography really tricky.

I talked to my LFS tonight about a new tank to replace my 29g since it is so scratched and 5 years old. A new one would cost me less than $50, but a slightly larger one (front to back), plus drill holes, would run me $170. Making my own is beginning to sound like a great idea! Would the Piranha magnet work okay on 3/8"? I have the acrylic pad for it.

Yes, this is yet another step closer. Where are you located James? I'd love to just drive out your way, and build the L shaped tank with you. I'd learn so much, and I bet it would be absolutely trustworthy. Plus I'd get to meet you finally.


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Old 07/31/2003, 11:10 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally posted by melev
When I saw 'notch', I was thinking that although it should be a perfect rectangle, for me to have room for the Remora, I'd have to inset about 4" x 8" across the back. (The actual back of the tank.) Which would break up the rectangular shape. Perhaps I can hang it off the rear side corner instead....
This type of thing actually makes me somewhat nervous, to tell you the truth.
Quote:

If it does swell, it would distort the view, and make photography really tricky.
Oh, ok, I know what you mean now - we usually call that bowing or deflection I thought you were referring to the material itself actually swelling in size and/or thickness. My bad...
It will bow some but not too much, maybe 1/8" - 3/16"or so I would guess.

Quote:

I talked to my LFS tonight about a new tank to replace my 29g since it is so scratched and 5 years old. A new one would cost me less than $50, but a slightly larger one (front to back), plus drill holes, would run me $170. Making my own is beginning to sound like a great idea! Would the Piranha magnet work okay on 3/8"? I have the acrylic pad for it.
Not sure, never used a magnet. I make my own scrapers
Quote:

Yes, this is yet another step closer. Where are you located James? I'd love to just drive out your way, and build the L shaped tank with you. I'd learn so much, and I bet it would be absolutely trustworthy. Plus I'd get to meet you finally.
I'm just south of Portland, OR. Should you ever be in the 'hood...

James


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Old 07/31/2003, 11:16 AM   #80
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What I use are aplicater bottles for porceline painting. they hold about 3 ozs and have small "needles". Iget them at Michaels


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File Type: jpg sides and back3.jpg (34.8 KB, 536 views)
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Current Tank Info: DIY 225 gal acrylic display,sumpw/ 50 gal built in fuge, AM3k on CL, Icecap 660 on tank, coral life PC's on fuge.
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Old 07/31/2003, 04:27 PM   #81
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James - Maaan are you far away! I'd have to reallllly want that tank.

Are you aware of any issues with bonding Cell Cast to Extruded? I was thinking that I could buy 1/2 sheet of GP for the front, back and sides, and the bottom and top could be FF. Unless that is a chemical no-no. A full sheet of 3/8" costs me $125.


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Old 07/31/2003, 05:06 PM   #82
Acrylics
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Quote:
Originally posted by melev

Are you aware of any issues with bonding Cell Cast to Extruded? I was thinking that I could buy 1/2 sheet of GP for the front, back and sides, and the bottom and top could be FF. Unless that is a chemical no-no. A full sheet of 3/8" costs me $125.
There are no issues in with regard to this. I've done it many times and works just fine. Not preferrrred - but works
"Chemical no-no"... cute...

James


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Old 07/31/2003, 11:51 PM   #83
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Thanks for the info guys- That sounds like a plan Melev- 20" is about my max at 3/8". I'd do a 2.5" frame around it at least, maybe 3". That will help some.

Zeph


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Old 08/01/2003, 11:39 AM   #84
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Let me toss this one out there as well. Same concept, just changing (bending?) more rules....

Can I use 3/8" for the walls, and 1/4" for the top and bottom? I only ask because I have excess 1/4" on hand. The bottom will sit on solid wood (or a 1/2" foam pad to avoid stress points), and the top will be mostly cut out (3" lip?!?!!!! I'd much prefer 1.5" max!).


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Old 08/01/2003, 10:35 PM   #85
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Melev- I've seen tanks that use a lighter thickness on the bottom (or end panels). Especially the large tanks. It does depend on the depth of the tank, and the span. While the bottom of the tank is fully supported, the sides are not. Picture what happens if you glue only the front to the bottom, then pull outwards on the front. The bottom will flex, until it, or the joint, breaks. That is the same type of forces being applied in the tank, so you don't want to go ultra-thin on the bottom.

For a 30x20x20, I think you might be OK.

Zeph


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Old 08/02/2003, 01:39 AM   #86
Acrylics
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Quote:
Originally posted by melev
Let me toss this one out there as well. Same concept, just changing (bending?) more rules....

Can I use 3/8" for the walls, and 1/4" for the top and bottom? I only ask because I have excess 1/4" on hand. The bottom will sit on solid wood (or a 1/2" foam pad to avoid stress points), and the top will be mostly cut out (3" lip?!?!!!! I'd much prefer 1.5" max!).
Ah, bending the rules again eh?

Question: Are you using one cutout or two?

If just one cutout, you'll want the wider flange (lip). If you can live with two cutouts, use the smaller flange but you get the centerbrace.
Perhaps a happy medium, one cutout but use a 2" flange with a larger radius on the cutouts - say a 2" or so. This will help distribute stress over a larger area than the 1/4" radius that a standard 1/2" flush cutter leaves.
I would worry about using 1/4" FF for the top though, extruded material is more sensitive to stress and heat and the heat from reef lighting *may* cause issue depending on how much heat the top actually receives. The again I may be worrying too much...been known to happen.

James


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Old 08/17/2003, 11:22 AM   #87
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I am building a sump for my new 175 Oceanic Bowfront. It is a new stand design that gives me room for a large sump/refugium down below. It is trapezoid in shape to maximize the area. I am building it with the largest dimensions that I can and still removable from the front. I is around 60 gal, measures 43 1/2" length, one end is 15 1/2", the other 22" and 18" tall. I am using 3/8 plexiglas G.

I am about ready to start gluing, and found this great thread, thanks guys! The first joint will be attaching the back (cut to fit inside the ends) to the bottom. The second glue operation will be two joints, one to the bottom and one to the back after it has set. It looks like the pin spacing method will work as described in this thread for the bottom joint, but how about the joint up the back? The shim method won't work here, and it does not have the weight of acrylic for clamping pressure. Would you recommend using bar clamps?

Also, any thoughts on the design? I have not finalized how much space will be dedicated to sump and how much is refugium, but I will likely end up with internal dividers that would add bracing. Do you think it might be necessary to add an inside lip at the top for bracing?


Thanks,
Rick


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Old 08/17/2003, 12:49 PM   #88
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You can still use the pin method for the "up the sides" sections. You just can't put a pin near the bottom joint, but about 8 to 10 inches up from the joint you can start using pins.

I add a solid piece to the top, routing out the hole if it is needed. The best way for me to decide is once the unit is built with the internal baffles, has been allowed to cure for 24 hours, I fill it up with water and inspect it closely for swelling. If the unit gives too much, I add the top piece. Usually, in cases where the vertical height is pretty tall (20" or more), I add it.


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Old 08/17/2003, 03:01 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by tricky
It is trapezoid in shape to maximize the area. I am building it with the largest dimensions that I can and still removable from the front. I is around 60 gal, measures 43 1/2" length, one end is 15 1/2", the other 22" and 18" tall. I am using 3/8 plexiglas G.
Tough sump to make for many, the trapezoidal shape requires machining and gluing angles which can get difficult

Quote:

The first joint will be attaching the back (cut to fit inside the ends) to the bottom.
It is recommended to glue the bottom on last, you can control flatness and warpage easier this way, but...

Quote:
The second glue operation will be two joints, one to the bottom and one to the back after it has set. It looks like the pin spacing method will work as described in this thread for the bottom joint, but how about the joint up the back?
Maybe change the order in which you are gluing so that you are always gluing on a horizontal plane. Perhaps glue the ends to the back then flip the whole thing over onto the bottom?

Quote:
The shim method won't work here, and it does not have the weight of acrylic for clamping pressure. Would you recommend using bar clamps?
Bar clamps have a tendency to squeeze out any solvent, leaving a "dry" joint. I use them often for gluing heavy gauge but would not at all recommend them for thin stuff

Quote:
Also, any thoughts on the design?
If you can post a drawing of what you've got/want, I'm sure if we all put our heads together...

Quote:
I have not finalized how much space will be dedicated to sump and how much is refugium, but I will likely end up with internal dividers that would add bracing. Do you think it might be necessary to add an inside lip at the top for bracing?
Depends on design, to tell the truth

HTH,
James


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Old 08/19/2003, 05:23 PM   #90
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Thanks for the comments, it's helping a bunch. I can seen how attaching the bottom last would have been better. I thought there would be more matching problems attaching the bottom to four separate pieces, but that has not been problem at all Everything is real square. A bigger problem is trying to glue a vertical joint.
The problem I am having with the vertical joint is the gap is not very controllable. The gap is too wide, the solvent flows down the joint and I couldn't get the gap to fill. I started at the top, the solvent just ran down the gap and started filling near the bottom. Without a clamp or the pressure of the plexi, there is not enough pressure to close the joint far enough. I did manage to get a nice, just had a few bubbles, but it was getting scary for a little bit. BTW, the framing squares is a GREAT trick, it really keeps everything square and solid. I managed to use one square with a pile of lead scuba weights piled on it with wooden wedge to put some pressure from the outside in, it worked well.

The trapezoid shape has not been a problem so far. The angle cuts are only 9 degrees from square. I use a 10" 60 tooth carbide tip blade on the table saw, then dress it down with a flat mill bastard (file). It took quite a few hours for the hand dressing, but it all came out really nice.
I am ready to glue the front in place. It sits on top of the bottom piece and overlaps the two end pieces. I am considering joining it to the bottom with the pin method first, then letting it dry. Then turn it on the front to one end, dry again and the other end. Would this give the best joint? I am concerned that the glue will wick up the vertical joints when I try to stop in the corners.

Sorry for open ended question about sump design, I was actually concerned about the thickness for the size of the sump right now. Thanks, melev- I will see what it looks like on the leak test. Went I get the box built, I will post a layout for some ideas.

Thanks
Rick


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Old 08/19/2003, 06:44 PM   #91
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One day I'm going to have to try attaching the bottom last. Like you, Rick, I figured it would be difficult to get a flat surface bond with it being added last. I always attach my walls to the base, one by one.

You mentioned vertical gluing... can't be done. It must be horizontal for gluing, unless I misunderstood your post.


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Old 08/19/2003, 08:20 PM   #92
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Melev, you are giving me confidence. Guess I did the impossible!! Seriously, it can't be done well is what we'll agree on. I close the gap, got it to fill rather well, but isnt a piece of art. It looks like it will be strong enough, but just to make sure I am going to run a bead of weldon 16 on the inside. So what I hear you saying is I should be able to glue the bottom, let it dry, turn it to do one end, then the other?

Rick


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Old 08/19/2003, 09:13 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally posted by tricky
Melev, you are giving me confidence. Guess I did the impossible!! Seriously, it can't be done well is what we'll agree on. I close the gap, got it to fill rather well, but isnt a piece of art. It looks like it will be strong enough, but just to make sure I am going to run a bead of weldon 16 on the inside. So what I hear you saying is I should be able to glue the bottom, let it dry, turn it to do one end, then the other?

Rick
Acrylics or Zephrant will probably chime in as well, but if your gap is really problematic, you can put a small piece of acrylic over the spot, and weld that in to act as a patch/bandaid.

Using #16 is pretty messy and hard to control, until I went to a hobby shop and bought a pack of 5 long tips. They didn't fit of course, but I cut the end so it would spread just wide enough to be forced onto the tube of #16. It allows me to just apply where I need it, in lesser amounts.

And yes, glue your horizontal seam, allow it to dry, turn the entire project until your next seam to be glued is horizontal, and continue until all seams are done.


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Old 08/19/2003, 09:27 PM   #94
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Thanks, Marc. It worked like a champ. The bottom seam is done, and it didn't wick up the sides very much at all. If I look real close, I might find 1 or 2 bubbles in the entire 4' seam. It'll be a piece of cake to do the sides now.

My weldon came in a can, I will probably need some kind of syrenge to apply it, I probably have something around that will work.

Rick


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Old 08/19/2003, 09:40 PM   #95
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#16 came in a can? I always get it in a tube, like airplane modellers glue.


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Old 08/20/2003, 05:55 PM   #96
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Yep. My local supplier has it in the tubes or the 1 pint can for about $7.


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Old 02/27/2004, 02:45 PM   #97
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I have been trying to make an that is less sealable than 2 mated flat surfaces. How do you recommend I do this in 1/4 acrylic and what tooks do I need.

Thanks


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Old 02/27/2004, 05:58 PM   #98
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I have been trying to make an that is less sealable than 2 mated flat surfaces. How do you recommend I do this in 1/4 acrylic and what tooks do I need.

Thanks
Can you retype that sentence? It seems to be missing some words, or I'm too tired to understand.

If you'll go to the beginning of this thread it explains how to bond acrylic nicely.


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Old 02/27/2004, 09:33 PM   #99
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I must have been dreaming, here it goes again:

I have been trying to make an O-Ring but the seal always comes out worse than 2 flat surfaces with an O-ring between. How do you recommend I do this in 1/4 acrylic and what tools do I need.

I am also looking to make the seal flangeless, just a quarter turn should unlock it. Any ideas?

Thanks


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Old 04/26/2004, 11:31 PM   #100
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Zephrant, I'm reviving this thread because my seams are still a tad messy. I'm getting good bubble free seams for the most part, but too much product oozes out.

I'm currently using twist ties that come with trashbags or sandwich baggies. What size wire would be ideal, and would it be something I can find at Home Depot perhaps? Or Fry's Electronics?


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