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Old 01/13/2012, 12:58 PM   #1
MHG
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Slow or No Growth

My tank is just a little over 100 days old.

I have zero, nitrates, phosphates
Calc is 460, Alk is 9.8 dkh
salinity 1.025
Temp 78
PH 7.9-8.2

I have zero growth on some eagle eye and only 1 polyp on some other type zoa (not sure what it is).

My GSP is growing like crazy, my button polyp and galaxia looks great (also no growth)


I read somewhere that phosphates can stunt growth. I did have a HA problem probably from phosphates leaching from the dry rock and growing HA before it was detectable. I now run GFO and have since gotten rid of that problem.


Suggestions?


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Old 01/13/2012, 01:15 PM   #2
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Hair algae is gone? If its not gone, than you still have some issues going on. Also you have only really had the system going for 100days which isn't long at all for growth as usually when you going through all the new tank syndrom's you won't have much growth. Also are you doing regular water changes? Feeding habits? How many fish?


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75G Reef Ready Tank Setup 2/28/10 connected to basement 75G tank & 50G Sump

1 mated Pair of clowns one female true perc and a male misbar perc,1 Bangaii Cardinal, 1 Blue Spotted Goby, 1 Kole Tang, 1 Pacific Blue Tang, 1 Melanarus Wrasse, 18" Purple S. Gigantea Nem(Oct. 2010)
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Old 01/13/2012, 05:31 PM   #3
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Makes sence.. thanks...

2 chromis, firefish, corris wrasse.

fish are fed once a day
Phytoplankton and reef snow daily for coral

HA 90% gone. less every day...
Monthly 10% Water changes...


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Old 01/15/2012, 12:09 AM   #4
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Feeding the tank during the day with the photoplankton and reef snow? If you are I would do that at night with some moonlights on as that seems to get better feeding responses from polyps. The hair algae is consuming all the phosphates/nutrients so that when you test you are getting false readings of 0 when you do have some. Also I would bump the water change up to 20% and would recommend if you can to do more water changes like bi-weekly as that will help you a lot with nutrients and keeping levels perfect. Also you running RODI water at 0 tds?


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75G Reef Ready Tank Setup 2/28/10 connected to basement 75G tank & 50G Sump

1 mated Pair of clowns one female true perc and a male misbar perc,1 Bangaii Cardinal, 1 Blue Spotted Goby, 1 Kole Tang, 1 Pacific Blue Tang, 1 Melanarus Wrasse, 18" Purple S. Gigantea Nem(Oct. 2010)
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Old 01/15/2012, 12:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
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Feeding the tank during the day with the photoplankton and reef snow? If you are I would do that at night with some moonlights on as that seems to get better feeding responses from polyps. The hair algae is consuming all the phosphates/nutrients so that when you test you are getting false readings of 0 when you do have some. Also I would bump the water change up to 20% and would recommend if you can to do more water changes like bi-weekly as that will help you a lot with nutrients and keeping levels perfect. Also you running RODI water at 0 tds?
Daily...not during the day

Yes, thats what I was saying aboutthe HA and the phosphates.

I dont have a nutrient level that I see...and I beleive my calk, alk and mag are all good unless someone is suggecting otherwise.

Yes ro/di zero tds


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Old 01/16/2012, 12:21 AM   #6
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When you have proper lights you won't need to feed the tank every day.
Try to cut feeding to once a week and make sure you've got a good skimmer running.
Turn off the pumps/skimmer to target feed.
Keep he water changes. At least 10% a month is fine.

Gradis.


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Old 01/16/2012, 09:30 AM   #7
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Thanks...


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Old 01/18/2012, 01:51 AM   #8
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Unless i read past it, What kind of lights are you using?
No matter what you should have growth right now. Tank is still new, but normally you would see some signs of growth. Feeding everyday like that will run you into problems eventually on a smaller tank that you are only doing 10% wc on a month.
Feed once a week or every 2 weeks. You dont have enough corals to feed that often.
They also may have a parasite. Take them out and give them a nice coral dip, and return back into the tank


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Old 01/18/2012, 04:50 PM   #9
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I have a 120 gallon tank that has been up for 4 years. Initialy when I switched from a 75 gallon to a 120 I lost all my zoos. They simply never opened up again.

I started adding Zoo's about a month ago and would like some idea on what I should expect for growth rates. The frags I got now are called "Red People Eaters" deep red centers with green outers, and "Eagle Eye" green with a bright orange florescent inner ring. Both are about 10 small polyps on a 1/2" plug. Any idea how long it may take them to expand to the size of a quarter? Am I talking months or years?


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Current Tank Info: Main tank 120 Gallon, 432 Watts T-5's plus 30 Watts of LED's, Frag 40 Gallon tank 234 Watts T-5's, 3 Frag tanks all 40 Gallon with LED lighting between 60 and 84 Watts. All LEDs are DIY Oh and then there is fresh water tanks 270 gallons
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Old 01/18/2012, 09:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TropTrea View Post
I have a 120 gallon tank that has been up for 4 years. Initialy when I switched from a 75 gallon to a 120 I lost all my zoos. They simply never opened up again.

I started adding Zoo's about a month ago and would like some idea on what I should expect for growth rates. The frags I got now are called "Red People Eaters" deep red centers with green outers, and "Eagle Eye" green with a bright orange florescent inner ring. Both are about 10 small polyps on a 1/2" plug. Any idea how long it may take them to expand to the size of a quarter? Am I talking months or years?
Probably months.
Growth rate depends on too many factors.

The less you touch them and the better you keep the stability/maintenance the faster they will grow, if everything is ok in the system (water params, light, etc).

Grandis.


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Old 01/19/2012, 09:31 AM   #11
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Unless i read past it, What kind of lights are you using?
No matter what you should have growth right now. Tank is still new, but normally you would see some signs of growth. Feeding everyday like that will run you into problems eventually on a smaller tank that you are only doing 10% wc on a month.
Feed once a week or every 2 weeks. You dont have enough corals to feed that often.
They also may have a parasite. Take them out and give them a nice coral dip, and return back into the tank
The lighting is in my sugnatrure line.

48 3 watt led's


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Old 01/19/2012, 09:33 AM   #12
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I saw on a few threads that I should be seing a few new polyps a month. I have only one for sure on one zoa and nothing on the others... GSP has doubled in size in two months.


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Old 01/19/2012, 11:09 AM   #13
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it took mine a couple months but they have recently started to spread, im noticing a couple new polyps here and there. I think it also may just take some time to find the right spot in the tank


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Old 01/21/2012, 11:12 PM   #14
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... and the less you look for new polyps, the more you'll find.
Just give them some time...

Grandis.


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Old 01/22/2012, 02:53 PM   #15
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... and the less you look for new polyps, the more you'll find.
Just give them some time...

Grandis.
Yes, good point...


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Old 01/22/2012, 06:59 PM   #16
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Each zoa/paly also needs time to adjust to all of your paramters lighting etc. They go through growth spurts, but i would say months to see many more growing. Good luck


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Old 01/22/2012, 09:43 PM   #17
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So if I gather from the different discussions in various threads here.

1. I should not be discouraged if I see very minimal growth in the first 3 months.

2. Some varieties will take off and grow like weeds after they are acclimated.

3. Some varieties simply do not adjust to the conditions that may me be ideal for other varieties. So occasionally I might get some that just melt away in a few weeks while others types are thriving.

4. I know light is extremely important and different color morphs might have very different lighting requirements. What might be too much light for type A might be insufficient for type B.


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Current Tank Info: Main tank 120 Gallon, 432 Watts T-5's plus 30 Watts of LED's, Frag 40 Gallon tank 234 Watts T-5's, 3 Frag tanks all 40 Gallon with LED lighting between 60 and 84 Watts. All LEDs are DIY Oh and then there is fresh water tanks 270 gallons
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Old 01/22/2012, 09:50 PM   #18
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So if I gather from the different discussions in various threads here.

1. I should not be discouraged if I see very minimal growth in the first 3 months.

2. Some varieties will take off and grow like weeds after they are acclimated.

3. Some varieties simply do not adjust to the conditions that may me be ideal for other varieties. So occasionally I might get some that just melt away in a few weeks while others types are thriving.

4. I know light is extremely important and different color morphs might have very different lighting requirements. What might be too much light for type A might be insufficient for type B.


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Current Tank Info: Main tank 120 Gallon, 432 Watts T-5's plus 30 Watts of LED's, Frag 40 Gallon tank 234 Watts T-5's, 3 Frag tanks all 40 Gallon with LED lighting between 60 and 84 Watts. All LEDs are DIY Oh and then there is fresh water tanks 270 gallons
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Old 01/22/2012, 10:50 PM   #19
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Generally speaking... adding to the list...

5. Depending on collecting practices, fragging and transportation, there will be an influence for the frag or colony to adapt to the new system. That alone will interfere with growth/reproduction since the begining.

6. There is much more to adaptation then water flow, light or water params. A good combination of those will help many of the species we keep. Quarantine is a great help. Avoiding to add predators will save entire colonies and growth time.

7. Small target feeding once a week helps most of the species to grow/reproduce, but the presence of a good skimmer and a water change schedule is crucial to keep the system running without trouble for long periods of time.

8. Changing bulbs every 10 to 12 months will keep the system with a consistent good growth/reproduction. Careful when changing the bulbs could save some colonies from bleaching in a very short time. Same about constant temperature. Changes in temperature also could have negative influences in growth/reproduction.

9. The bigger the colony/frag the better adaptation to a new system/growth.

10. The place you put the new frag/colony in the system will have a tremendous influence for it's growth/reproduction. To keep changing the colony around is not a good idea.

Ok... I'll let others contribute more to the list, so we can learn more...

Grandis.


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Old 01/23/2012, 10:19 AM   #20
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7. Small target feeding once a week helps most of the species to grow/reproduce, but the presence of a good skimmer and a water change schedule is crucial to keep the system running without trouble for long periods of time..
Ah and what do you feed your colonies? I have been rotating frozen foods on daily feeding of the entire tank. Cyclops, Plankton, Mysis Shrimp, and a coral blend. But I do know a lot is wasted and not getting to the corals.


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8. Changing bulbs every 10 to 12 months will keep the system with a consistent good growth/reproduction. Careful when changing the bulbs could save some colonies from bleaching in a very short time. Same about constant temperature. Changes in temperature also could have negative influences in growth/reproduction. can learn more...
Grandis.
I will agree with this strongly. When I had MH's it was a bigger issue tan it is now. But with an 8 bulb HO T-5 system and a 4 Bulb system I change 2 bulbs basicly ever other month. Therefore no bulb is used for more than one year and any changes are much more gradual. When I do change bulbs I keep a simular bubl in the system and do make drastic lighting changes all at once.

But another important thing is keeping the lighting fixtures clean. Salt slowly builds up on the bulbs or shield and I do weekly cleaning of this.

I'm slowly going to LED's and that should stabalize my system even more for lighting. The better LED's are rated for a minimum life span of 50,000 hrs with for us relates to over 10 years. It should also help stabilize temperatures more than other lighting systems do.


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Current Tank Info: Main tank 120 Gallon, 432 Watts T-5's plus 30 Watts of LED's, Frag 40 Gallon tank 234 Watts T-5's, 3 Frag tanks all 40 Gallon with LED lighting between 60 and 84 Watts. All LEDs are DIY Oh and then there is fresh water tanks 270 gallons
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Old 01/23/2012, 10:30 AM   #21
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It takes time. 100days is early. Like someone else said, weekly water changes or even bi-weekly at this point will help with nutrient levels for about a month I would do this, then you can scale back to weekly of bi monthly WC. Feed good foods, keep lighting good, keep filters clean and good skimmer. Be patient and everything will take off.


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Old 01/24/2012, 08:08 AM   #22
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It takes time. 100days is early. Like someone else said, weekly water changes or even bi-weekly at this point will help with nutrient levels for about a month I would do this, then you can scale back to weekly of bi monthly WC. Feed good foods, keep lighting good, keep filters clean and good skimmer. Be patient and everything will take off.
Well slightly a different topic, but people keep saying more frequent of bigger water changes to help with the nutrients... what nutrients are they refering to when Ammonia, Nitrites, nitrates, phosphates are all at zero...?

Dont get me wrong I am not dismissing the value or bigger and more frequent water changes, I am just curious if I am missing something.


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Old 01/24/2012, 08:38 AM   #23
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Quote:
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Well slightly a different topic, but people keep saying more frequent of bigger water changes to help with the nutrients... what nutrients are they refering to when Ammonia, Nitrites, nitrates, phosphates are all at zero...?

Dont get me wrong I am not dismissing the value or bigger and more frequent water changes, I am just curious if I am missing something.
I think it's a 2 sided statement. Yes this is helping to remove trace nutrients from the system, sometimes they are in small enough amounts that they my not register on a test. But it is also about refreshing trace elements (calcium, iodine, mag, etc) all things that get used up by the coral growth. It is more about keeping everything fresh and clean


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Old 01/24/2012, 11:07 AM   #24
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Water changes are something that is extremly debatable as to what is adequate and what is excessive. The thing about large water changes is that they do create sudden changes in the enviroment of the corals which can cause tehem to have to constantly readjust.

I never tell people to change more than 10% of the water at once unless they have runn into some catrosphy that has made there water extremly foul. Yes I had experienced catrosphy years ago when somene dumped a full can of fish food in a tank . Having been in the business I also heard of many other nightmares like a drunk dumping his beer in the tank to make the fish happy. But generaly that does usualy happen.

Ones filteration system is probably even more important than water changes as well as what there dosing practices are. With a perfect dosing system and perfect filteration system theoreticly there should be no need for water changes. However in very few if any home aquariums is this possible. I like to think Im aproaching this as I do have a large 60 gallon refugium as well as good sized Protein Skimmer.

With adequate filteration you can get away with 5% monthly water changes but you realy cannot get away them completly. If your filteration is below ideal than the frequency of water changes should be increased. Doing 5% weekly changes is probably what the average set up needs. But under no circimustances would I be doining more than 10% on on a regular bases. And unless there was a specific temporary issue would I consider doing them more frequently that every third day.

Dosing as I said is also anoither big issue. Yes Calcium, Magnesium, and KH in the water does get used by the corals as well as multiple trace elements. The major elements do decrease in there sturation at various rates depending on which and haw many corals you have in your tank. In most cases simple water changes will not keep up the consumption of these elements and compounds so dosing is required. There are also trace elements that are much harder to judge since there levels may be close to undetectable yet they are important.

Is it possible to run a tank without adequete dosing and filteration? Probaly if its not over stocked and you do very frequent water changes. Looking at a 120 gallon tank doing 10% water changes every 3rd day means your changing out 12 gallons 120 times in one year using 1,440 gallons of salt water, or 10 pails of salt mix costing an average of $500 a year. A good Protein skimmer and dosing slighly can reduce this to less than 1/3 or $166 a year. For what you save in two years you can get a very good protein skimmer and realy reduce your work load. If you add a good sized refugium which are less expensive than protein skimmers you can probably reduce that salt usage in half again. This is not to mention the time you also save for yourself.


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Current Tank Info: Main tank 120 Gallon, 432 Watts T-5's plus 30 Watts of LED's, Frag 40 Gallon tank 234 Watts T-5's, 3 Frag tanks all 40 Gallon with LED lighting between 60 and 84 Watts. All LEDs are DIY Oh and then there is fresh water tanks 270 gallons
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Old 01/24/2012, 04:31 PM   #25
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I hope you cut and pasted that from something you wrote earlier. Wow, thats a mouthful. Thanks...

I think if anyone thinks they have found the perfect setup, this site will produce a bunch who will state otherwise.


Unless I was retired, I cant see doing anything more than once a month. Thats why I try not to overload and overfeed my tank.


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