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Old 10/28/2012, 04:35 PM   #1
MikeTR
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chiller operation

Got my tradewinds 1/3hp chiller hooked up on my 180g and wondering if it's cycling too fast. I have it hooked up to my controller so I was able to see by the amp draw when the compressor was on and when it kicked off. Those of you that run chillers, maybe you can let me know if this seems normal or not. Chiller is outside, but I ran it without the cover on the enclosure (rubbermaid deckbox) so I could get a baseline without having to wonder if it was kicking off from overheating. I'll list the starting and ending temp for each cycle and the length of time the compressor was on, and the time the compressor kicked off and only the fan running.

80.8 F, 80.1 F, 24mins on, 4 mins off
79.9 F, 79.3 F, 20 mins on, 4 mins off
79.1 F, 78.9 F, 13 min on, 3 mins off
78.8 F, 78.2 F, 21 mins on, 4 mins off

Next set you can see where the wind blew the lid to the chiller housing shut.
78.1 F, 78.1 F, 4 mins on, 5 mins off
78 F, 78 F, 4 mins on, 6 mins off
78 F, 78 F, 4 mins on, 4 mins off

Was about 30 mins from the time the lid shut to the time I took it back off. This time I took the lid completely off.

78 F, 77.5 F, 22 mins on, 4 mins off
77.4, 77.3, 2 mins on, completely off, reached final temp.

So on average it seems to run for 20mins give or take a few and then the compressor shuts off for 4. Totally new to running a chiller so do not know what to expect.


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Old 10/28/2012, 04:37 PM   #2
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I will note that I do have an exhaust fan mounted in the deckbox, but wasn't running it at the time of this test.


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Old 10/28/2012, 05:15 PM   #3
Mark Bianco
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Thats a long time running. My chiller runs about 4 - 6 minutes to lower the temp about one degree, I have a 110gl sump and a 75gl display tank. Not sure where you have your controller settings, but anyways in order to get a more efficiant transfer of heat sounds like you need a slower water flow. Not sure if you have a seperate pump or if you have it plumbed into your return, but if you have a seperate pump you can place a shutoff valve partically open to adjust the flow...


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Old 10/28/2012, 05:27 PM   #4
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Running the same sized chiller? I do have it plumbed straight to the return but I have a ball valve I can close to slow the flow even more.

Here's a pic of the madness.



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Old 10/28/2012, 05:28 PM   #5
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What you can't see behind the skimmer are the two pipes going to the outside of the house. The ball valve that's under/behind the gate valves is the chiller line.


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Old 10/28/2012, 05:32 PM   #6
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Just using the ranco controller. Temp probe was already inserted in the chiller when I bought it. Set point at 77 with a 2dif


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Old 10/28/2012, 05:50 PM   #7
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What kind of GPH are you pushing through the chiller? I would guess its either too much or not enough. Also you have your temp setting too close. My chiller comes on at 79 runs for 20 min to chill tank to 77 then is off for 4 hours.


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Old 10/28/2012, 06:00 PM   #8
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I am using a 1/3hp just a different brand. I set my Apex controller at what I want then use the chiller settings one degree less. That way I am sure the chiller will run when the controller kicks it on. I would slow down the supply to the chiller as long as it does not effect your return flow. This should be able to lower the tank one degree within 10 minutes at best. If it takes longer then something may be wrong.

I commend you on using dual controls I like redunantcy when dealing with heaters, and chillers. I also like your setup nice and clean looking.


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Old 10/28/2012, 06:14 PM   #9
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No clue what my GPH is. Running a reeflo dart external and no idea how to calculate. At the moment I've got the ball valves set in such a way that if I would open them any more the sump starts draining. It's an eshopps R-300 2nd gen sump. I want to say it's rated at 900gph. With 1" overflows rated at 600gph ea, my guess is that I'm running somewhere between 900-1200gph through both returns. The chiller is rated up to 1500gph.


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Old 10/28/2012, 06:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Bianco View Post
I am using a 1/3hp just a different brand. I set my Apex controller at what I want then use the chiller settings one degree less. That way I am sure the chiller will run when the controller kicks it on. I would slow down the supply to the chiller as long as it does not effect your return flow. This should be able to lower the tank one degree within 10 minutes at best. If it takes longer then something may be wrong.

I commend you on using dual controls I like redunantcy when dealing with heaters, and chillers. I also like your setup nice and clean looking.
Thanks. Currently I just have to rely on the Ranco, but in the near future I do plan on doing just this. I need to get the socket expansion for the Apex or another energy bar. Running 3 x 250w radiums and that draw, plus the chiller would put me just over the 15amp limit of the EB8.


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Old 10/29/2012, 06:06 AM   #11
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Well Guys...

After reading these posts i am very confused with my Chiller operation time frame and i will like your expertise to help me out.

My scenario is that i have a 125 with 30 sump and my Chiller Artica 1/4 is lasting 5 hrs. to cool down the 2 degrees from 80.0 - 78.0. I have a WB 7000 as my main pump and it is feeding the chiller and a 3/4 Sea Swirl with both returns going to the tank. The Overflow box is 1,200GPH with 2 tubes.

The SS and the Chiller have gate valves and i have tried different combinations like slowing down the flow, opening all the way the flow, using only 1 overflow tube without sucess. By the way all the plumbing is 3/4.

Thanks in advance for your help because i will happy if the cycling time reduce because overhere in PR the electricity is very high cost.


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Old 10/29/2012, 09:42 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wcharon View Post
Well Guys...

After reading these posts i am very confused with my Chiller operation time frame and i will like your expertise to help me out.

My scenario is that i have a 125 with 30 sump and my Chiller Artica 1/4 is lasting 5 hrs. to cool down the 2 degrees from 80.0 - 78.0. I have a WB 7000 as my main pump and it is feeding the chiller and a 3/4 Sea Swirl with both returns going to the tank. The Overflow box is 1,200GPH with 2 tubes.

The SS and the Chiller have gate valves and i have tried different combinations like slowing down the flow, opening all the way the flow, using only 1 overflow tube without sucess. By the way all the plumbing is 3/4.

Thanks in advance for your help because i will happy if the cycling time reduce because overhere in PR the electricity is very high cost.
I am also in the Caribbean (Trinidad). I have the same size setup as you and use a 1/2 HP Oceanic. My chiller takes 2 Hours to cool 2 degrees. I think that it is very hard to judge on how a chiller should operate time wise just based on HP. There are many variables such as ambient temperature around the chiller, amount of heat being added such as lights etc. If the lights are in a closed canopy and how well that canopy is ventilated, humidity etc.

To the OP I would check your flow rate by taking the output and timing as it pours into a known volume, then calculate the flow rate from that. I am thinking that the flow rate is too slow. Shoot for what the manufacturer recommends. Also too high of a flow rate can be a problem too.


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Tank: 230 Gal , 75 Gal Sump with Refuge, 3X400W MH, 4X54W T5, MP40W's, SRO XP5000 Skimmer, Octopus Calcium Reactor, 1.5 HP Chiller, Apex.
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Old 10/29/2012, 09:58 AM   #13
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Ok. I will try that but I will be very happy with a 2 hour range.


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Old 10/29/2012, 11:48 AM   #14
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Peiloy3196...

Can i know what gph and U-Tubes you have thru the overflow to the sump????

Thanks...


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Old 10/29/2012, 02:13 PM   #15
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I don't have u tubes as my overflows are internal. I have about 1000GPH going through the chiller. My chiller manufacturer recommends between 750 - 1500 GPH for its size.


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Old 10/29/2012, 02:32 PM   #16
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GREAT... That gives me a big idea because my overflow handles 1,200GPH with 2 U-Tubes.
Thanks....


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Old 10/29/2012, 07:28 PM   #17
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In my case it appears that the enclosure is to blame. Sent Hal an email over at Tradewinds and he said that the compressor should not be cutting off until the desired temp is reached. Likely cause is over heating. Even though the lid was off its still not enough. He said I'd need to eliminate or upgrade my exhaust fan. Cfm of the exhaust fan would need to match the 340cfm of the chiller fan to be effective if I were to close the lid. I'm going to retry the test with the unit out of the enclosure and see if this holds true. I still need an aesthetic looking enclosure so as not to rile the HOA so I'll be modifying the box with duct work to bring fresh air direct to the compressor side and exhaust the hot air directly out the side of the enclosure. I'm gonna go get certified in HVAC now so that I can finish my tank setup .


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Old 10/29/2012, 08:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wcharon View Post
Well Guys...

After reading these posts i am very confused with my Chiller operation time frame and i will like your expertise to help me out.

My scenario is that i have a 125 with 30 sump and my Chiller Artica 1/4 is lasting 5 hrs. to cool down the 2 degrees from 80.0 - 78.0. I have a WB 7000 as my main pump and it is feeding the chiller and a 3/4 Sea Swirl with both returns going to the tank. The Overflow box is 1,200GPH with 2 tubes.

The SS and the Chiller have gate valves and i have tried different combinations like slowing down the flow, opening all the way the flow, using only 1 overflow tube without sucess. By the way all the plumbing is 3/4.

Thanks in advance for your help because i will happy if the cycling time reduce because overhere in PR the electricity is very high cost.
To me this sounds like it's either inadequately ventilated (as it is in my case) or low on refrigerant. If you've tried different flow rates, maybe you don't have enough space between the back of the chiller and whatever it may be up against.


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Old 10/30/2012, 05:34 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTR View Post
To me this sounds like it's either inadequately ventilated (as it is in my case) or low on refrigerant. If you've tried different flow rates, maybe you don't have enough space between the back of the chiller and whatever it may be up against.
Well i have the Chiller located on the side of the Canopy, so the front is open but the back is around 6"from the wall. Do you think thats to short and maybe i can put a fan blowing out to test it.????

Also, yesterday i made a test and cutoff half the flow to the chiller and also cut half to the SS without lights and it went down to 4 hours 10 minutes which is better. Today will make small adjustments to the Chiller to see what happens.


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Old 10/30/2012, 09:49 AM   #20
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The Arctica manual says it needs at least 1 foot of clearance in the back for proper function. Try moving it away from the wall more if you can. A fan may help some, but as I just learned, needs to match the cfm of the chiller fan to do any good.


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Old 10/30/2012, 09:53 AM   #21
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I do believe that may help quite a bit. I had 2 feet of clearance, and 1 foot in the back, with an open top. Here's what the housing looks like. Even when I left the lid off it wasn't enough. The inside plastic gets quite warm. Too bad I'm gonna have to cut a 1ft x 1ft hole on each side.



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Old 10/30/2012, 12:28 PM   #22
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Quote:
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The Arctica manual says it needs at least 1 foot of clearance in the back for proper function. Try moving it away from the wall more if you can. A fan may help some, but as I just learned, needs to match the cfm of the chiller fan to do any good.
Ok. I will try that also, but here is a pic where you can see that i only have about 6" to the wall but it doesn't cover all the way which i think the hot air will despite thru the side...


Attached Images
File Type: jpg Chiller Front.jpg (58.5 KB, 11 views)

Last edited by wcharon; 10/30/2012 at 12:34 PM. Reason: Attach Pic
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Old 11/01/2012, 10:13 AM   #23
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Interested to see if you moved it away from the wall and if it helped with runtime at all.


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