My recent experience with palytoxin

edsbeaker · 08/11/2013, 07:57 PM

I posted what happened recently to me in my local forum, but I really felt that this needed to be shared with a wider audience. IMO it is so important to remind everyone that corals are dangerous and to be careful. Maybe it could be useful if someone more knowledgeable then me, could write up a "Sticky" with what I think would be helpful info for those that are unaware of some of the dangers we face in this hobby, and include it in the New to the Hobby Section. This way we wouldn't have to wait for the next person to write up their experience as a reminder, the information would be accessible at all times.

So here is what happened.

Monday evening I was fragging about 7 groups of palys and zoas onto some smaller rocks outside of my tank. I had no gloves on at the time. The blade that I was using slipped and punctured my left index finger. It bled for a couple minutes and I wrapped it in a paper towel to stop the bleeding, then continued finishing up all the fragging and glueing and put everything back in the tank. I didn't even give the puncture wound a second thought, even though I knew that palys and zoas excrete one of the most toxic substances known.

Tuesday morning when I woke up I was in terrible pain. My finger was very red and about double the size it normally is. I went to work, and the pain continued to get worse, so I went to the immediate care center. I left there with antibiotics. The finger over the next two days got significantly worse. The entire length of it from tip to palm was reddish purple and I lost the ability to straighten and bend it.

I went over to the hospital at that point, figuring they would know more about infections from marine animals then the immediate care center, and I would walk out with a more appropriate antibiotic. I never would have guessed that this would all lead to being admitted to the hospital for three days and facing possible surgery as well. The good news is after three miserable days of pain in the hospital, an MRI, and multiple cycles of 3 types of IV antibiotics given throughout my stay, I was released last night knowing that I will NEVER take the danger of these corals and tank water for granted again. The bad news is I have lost some function in flexing my finger and still am not sure whether or not I will need surgery in the near future.

This happened in the blink of an eye. One little mistake that could have happened to any of us. So, just please don't do what I did and become complacent about taking care of your tanks. Wear eyewear when necessary and gloves whenever your hands are handling corals or in the tank for any reason. It may be a hassle sometimes, but I can tell you that a little inconvenience can make a big difference in your life.

Ranger Daryl · 08/11/2013, 08:29 PM

I just fragged Eagle eyes today, I was actually showing a friend who has never fragged zoas before. I told him to take every precaution with zoas and palys. I wear gloves, and an acrylic face shield when working with these coral. Then I was my hands after even though I was wearing gloves. I have a friend who got some palytoxin in his eye.

scottwhitson · 08/12/2013, 12:10 AM

Palytoxins almost killed our dog. I was doing some serious cleaning and fragging in our tank and must have dropped a piece of a zoa on the floor and the dog ate it without me knowing. He spent all day at the vet getting charcoal pumped into him to try and absorb the to toxins also lots of IV fluids. He also had extreme diarrhea and was very lethargic for about a week after. Very scary!

Whiterabbitrage · 08/12/2013, 01:22 AM

Thank you so much for sharing. It's a good reminder to us all to be careful.

kelrn98 · 08/12/2013, 01:26 AM

Palytoxins in there true sense does not cause an infection but rather disrupts the sodium/potassium channels which keep your bodily functions in check such as your heart pumping and fluid balances and breathing. It typically results in death and cannot be cured with antibiotics. You could have easily ended up with the same degree of infection from any puncture wound related to your tank. The bacterias that keep our tank in check are very bad for open wounds. With that being said, I agree we should all take precautions w/ zoas and I am very glad you are recovering well.

billdogg · 08/12/2013, 07:52 AM

I have been handling zoas for years. I had never had a problem until this spring when I needed to move the tank for new carpeting. My right arm spent the better part of an hour rubbing against a large colony. When I pulled my arm out of the tank, it was bright red. I looked over at my wife and said "If I stop breathing, you'll need to call the squad, and be sure to tell them it is palytoxin exposure" She gave me one of those "yeah - ok - really???" looks and went about her business. I finished moving the tank, washed well, and we went to dinner. By that time my arm felt like it had a very bad sunburn and was starting to blister. When I woke up the next morning, my arm was covered with puss filled blisters and I was in considerable pain, so off to the Urgent Care I went. The nurse at the desk ask me why I was there, so I told her. She was unimpressed, so I took off my jacket and showed her my arm. That earned me a trip straight back to an exam room. Of course, there was nothing they could really do, but I got a Z pack (antibiotics) and was told to take benadryl. By the next day, I was seeping puss out of numerous spots on my arm, so i went to my regular doctor (and old friend) who explained to me what a DA I was and told me that I would be fine to work with my arm in that condition. I reminded him that I work as a scrub tech in an OR, and we decided that maybe work wasn't such a good idea after all. All in all, I was off for a week. The scars on my arm will be with me forever, a reminder to be more aware in the future.

Didja know that marinedepot sells arm length gloves for like $14.99? I have a pair now.

I am also apparently sensitized to palytoxin exposure now. I was tearing the tank down (upgraded to a 120 from a 60) and wore my fancy new gloves the whole time. I was quite proud of myself! After I was done, I was taking some crap rock that I didn't want anymore out to the curb and must have brushed against a single polyp. My ring finger reacted almost immediatley, although it has not gotten as bad as that first time.

I have since traded almost all of the zoas back to my LFS. I scored a mated pair of YWG's, a frogspawn colony, and 4 small female spotfin anthias. I'm thinkin I got the better end of the deal!

edsbeaker · 08/12/2013, 08:02 AM

Billdogg, sounds like your experience was horrible.

Thanks all of you for contributing. I really think this helps to pass the word along.

d2mini · 08/12/2013, 08:13 AM

Yikes, glad you are pretty much ok after all that. I hope your finger recovers fully.
Thanks for the reminder! Sorry you had to go through the experience.

FTDelta · 08/12/2013, 12:15 PM

There have been stories of palytoxins poisoning posted on here in the past.

Sugar Magnolia · 08/12/2013, 01:52 PM

Sorry to hear this. This stuff is the real deal. I posted a link to this thread in our sticky in the Zoanthid forum. hope that's okay. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...1858696&page=5

edsbeaker · 08/12/2013, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia

Sorry to hear this. This stuff is the real deal. I posted a link to this thread in our sticky in the Zoanthid forum. hope that's okay. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...1858696&page=5

It's more then OK, I appreciate you passing on any info that may help others.

08/11/2013, 07:57 PM	#1
edsbeaker Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bartlett, IL Posts: 857	My recent experience with palytoxin I posted what happened recently to me in my local forum, but I really felt that this needed to be shared with a wider audience. IMO it is so important to remind everyone that corals are dangerous and to be careful. Maybe it could be useful if someone more knowledgeable then me, could write up a "Sticky" with what I think would be helpful info for those that are unaware of some of the dangers we face in this hobby, and include it in the New to the Hobby Section. This way we wouldn't have to wait for the next person to write up their experience as a reminder, the information would be accessible at all times. So here is what happened. Monday evening I was fragging about 7 groups of palys and zoas onto some smaller rocks outside of my tank. I had no gloves on at the time. The blade that I was using slipped and punctured my left index finger. It bled for a couple minutes and I wrapped it in a paper towel to stop the bleeding, then continued finishing up all the fragging and glueing and put everything back in the tank. I didn't even give the puncture wound a second thought, even though I knew that palys and zoas excrete one of the most toxic substances known. Tuesday morning when I woke up I was in terrible pain. My finger was very red and about double the size it normally is. I went to work, and the pain continued to get worse, so I went to the immediate care center. I left there with antibiotics. The finger over the next two days got significantly worse. The entire length of it from tip to palm was reddish purple and I lost the ability to straighten and bend it. I went over to the hospital at that point, figuring they would know more about infections from marine animals then the immediate care center, and I would walk out with a more appropriate antibiotic. I never would have guessed that this would all lead to being admitted to the hospital for three days and facing possible surgery as well. The good news is after three miserable days of pain in the hospital, an MRI, and multiple cycles of 3 types of IV antibiotics given throughout my stay, I was released last night knowing that I will NEVER take the danger of these corals and tank water for granted again. The bad news is I have lost some function in flexing my finger and still am not sure whether or not I will need surgery in the near future. This happened in the blink of an eye. One little mistake that could have happened to any of us. So, just please don't do what I did and become complacent about taking care of your tanks. Wear eyewear when necessary and gloves whenever your hands are handling corals or in the tank for any reason. It may be a hassle sometimes, but I can tell you that a little inconvenience can make a big difference in your life. __________________ Marilyn RedSea Max-E 260

08/12/2013, 01:22 AM	#4
Whiterabbitrage Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,338 Blog Entries: 1	Thank you so much for sharing. It's a good reminder to us all to be careful. __________________ ~Morgan Current Tank Info: 150 gall, 30 gall sump; 30 gall refugium

08/12/2013, 01:26 AM	#5
kelrn98 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Biloxi, MS Posts: 856	Palytoxins in there true sense does not cause an infection but rather disrupts the sodium/potassium channels which keep your bodily functions in check such as your heart pumping and fluid balances and breathing. It typically results in death and cannot be cured with antibiotics. You could have easily ended up with the same degree of infection from any puncture wound related to your tank. The bacterias that keep our tank in check are very bad for open wounds. With that being said, I agree we should all take precautions w/ zoas and I am very glad you are recovering well. __________________ ~Kelly~ Current Tank Info: 96x24x30 -300g mixed reef: 75g sump, 35g fuge, 2x MP60, 4x Radion Pros, reef octopus X5000 skimmer, way too much LR and a few fish Last edited by kelrn98; 08/12/2013 at 01:31 AM.

08/12/2013, 07:52 AM	#6
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	I have been handling zoas for years. I had never had a problem until this spring when I needed to move the tank for new carpeting. My right arm spent the better part of an hour rubbing against a large colony. When I pulled my arm out of the tank, it was bright red. I looked over at my wife and said "If I stop breathing, you'll need to call the squad, and be sure to tell them it is palytoxin exposure" She gave me one of those "yeah - ok - really???" looks and went about her business. I finished moving the tank, washed well, and we went to dinner. By that time my arm felt like it had a very bad sunburn and was starting to blister. When I woke up the next morning, my arm was covered with puss filled blisters and I was in considerable pain, so off to the Urgent Care I went. The nurse at the desk ask me why I was there, so I told her. She was unimpressed, so I took off my jacket and showed her my arm. That earned me a trip straight back to an exam room. Of course, there was nothing they could really do, but I got a Z pack (antibiotics) and was told to take benadryl. By the next day, I was seeping puss out of numerous spots on my arm, so i went to my regular doctor (and old friend) who explained to me what a DA I was and told me that I would be fine to work with my arm in that condition. I reminded him that I work as a scrub tech in an OR, and we decided that maybe work wasn't such a good idea after all. All in all, I was off for a week. The scars on my arm will be with me forever, a reminder to be more aware in the future. Didja know that marinedepot sells arm length gloves for like $14.99? I have a pair now. I am also apparently sensitized to palytoxin exposure now. I was tearing the tank down (upgraded to a 120 from a 60) and wore my fancy new gloves the whole time. I was quite proud of myself! After I was done, I was taking some crap rock that I didn't want anymore out to the curb and must have brushed against a single polyp. My ring finger reacted almost immediatley, although it has not gotten as bad as that first time. I have since traded almost all of the zoas back to my LFS. I scored a mated pair of YWG's, a frogspawn colony, and 4 small female spotfin anthias. I'm thinkin I got the better end of the deal! __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

08/12/2013, 08:02 AM	#7
edsbeaker Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bartlett, IL Posts: 857	Billdogg, sounds like your experience was horrible. Thanks all of you for contributing. I really think this helps to pass the word along. __________________ Marilyn RedSea Max-E 260

08/11/2013, 08:29 PM	#2
Ranger Daryl Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Milton, FL Posts: 61	I just fragged Eagle eyes today, I was actually showing a friend who has never fragged zoas before. I told him to take every precaution with zoas and palys. I wear gloves, and an acrylic face shield when working with these coral. Then I was my hands after even though I was wearing gloves. I have a friend who got some palytoxin in his eye.

08/12/2013, 12:10 AM	#3
scottwhitson Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lewiston, Idaho Posts: 1,395	Palytoxins almost killed our dog. I was doing some serious cleaning and fragging in our tank and must have dropped a piece of a zoa on the floor and the dog ate it without me knowing. He spent all day at the vet getting charcoal pumped into him to try and absorb the to toxins also lots of IV fluids. He also had extreme diarrhea and was very lethargic for about a week after. Very scary!

08/12/2013, 08:13 AM	#8
d2mini Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 10,344	Yikes, glad you are pretty much ok after all that. I hope your finger recovers fully. Thanks for the reminder! Sorry you had to go through the experience. __________________ -dennis Elos Diamond 120xl \| Elos Stand \| Radion G4 Pros \| GHL Profilux Controller \| LifeReef Skimmer \| LifeReef Sump Photos taken with a Nikon D750 or Leica M.

08/12/2013, 12:15 PM	#9
FTDelta Moved On Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Central NY Posts: 1,124	There have been stories of palytoxins poisoning posted on here in the past.

08/12/2013, 01:52 PM	#10
Sugar Magnolia Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Northern VA Posts: 17,691	Sorry to hear this. This stuff is the real deal. I posted a link to this thread in our sticky in the Zoanthid forum. hope that's okay. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...1858696&page=5 __________________ Adrienne The only thing to fear is fear itself....and spiders.