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Unread 02/17/2014, 11:26 PM   #1
Sk8r
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QUARANTINE YOUR FIRST FISH! Why?>>>

It's not about the fish's health or welfare---though it's certainly easier to treat and save him if you have him in a bare glass tank that can be treated.

No. It's about that tank you just sweated bullets and nursed to life. If you put a parasite-infested fish into that new tank, the only way to get the parasites out is to have that tank fishless for 12 weeks. Otherwise you will have endless grief and sick fish.

There are parasites, like ich and flukes, that can hide in gills. Ich lives in the sandbed and in fish. It's terribly common.

There are diseases and viruses that produce films on the fish's skin or affect the fish in other ways, and most of these can prove fatal if not treated appropriately.

Treating a 'well' fish 'just in case' is not such a good idea. Parasites take one kind of treatment; bacterial infections require something else---and if you picked the wrong one, you're going to have put the fish through two stressful treatments, when sometimes the fish's window for good recovery is hours, not weeks.

If you are forced to treat---do not use carbon; it absorbs meds; do not use a filter that has a black (carbon) side; and do not have rock or sand in the qt. Rock and sand harbor ich parasite, and the bio load if your treatment kills the bacterial sand and rock --- as it well may--- is not going to help the fish at all.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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Unread 02/18/2014, 10:57 AM   #2
formsix
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Thanks so much for the info!

I plan to QT all fish that go into my DT, that's a given. However, I'm wondering if it's necessary to QT hardier tank-bred fish for as long a time as a more susceptible ocean-caught fish?

Specifically, I'm curious about captive-bred occellaris clownfish (which seem to have their own special tank at all of the LFS) and orchid dottybacks (which might be handled more like ocean-caught fish?). Would 2 weeks be a reasonable time to QT a pair of clownfish that have never been around other species of fish? I'm certainly not looking to cut corners, just trying to figure out if the risk of infecting a tank with a parasite varies in a meaningful way depending on the type of fish and how they were raised.


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Unread 02/18/2014, 11:14 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by formsix View Post
Thanks so much for the info!

I plan to QT all fish that go into my DT, that's a given. However, I'm wondering if it's necessary to QT hardier tank-bred fish for as long a time as a more susceptible ocean-caught fish?

Specifically, I'm curious about captive-bred occellaris clownfish (which seem to have their own special tank at all of the LFS) and orchid dottybacks (which might be handled more like ocean-caught fish?). Would 2 weeks be a reasonable time to QT a pair of clownfish that have never been around other species of fish? I'm certainly not looking to cut corners, just trying to figure out if the risk of infecting a tank with a parasite varies in a meaningful way depending on the type of fish and how they were raised.
I was wondering the same exact thing! I plan to quarantine everything but was wondering about tank bred fish vs ocean caught in relation to quarantine time. Luckily, I have a GREAT LFS who is extremely responsible and have a great source as well.


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Unread 02/18/2014, 12:47 PM   #4
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You're taking a chance---not with the fish, but with the sandbed. They're LESS likely. But if disease DOES get started in a batch of all-same-species it spreads so easily. All it takes is an LFS employee to use the same net on the captive-bred tank he used on the rest of the tanks. And look behind the store tanks. They very likely are piped to the same sump as the rest.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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Unread 02/18/2014, 12:53 PM   #5
triggreef
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Don't take chances. That 12 weeks seems soooooooo long when you have to do it. It's just much easier to do it right from the start!


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Unread 02/18/2014, 01:01 PM   #6
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How do you cycle a Qt tank without using rock or sand? How about using a sponge that was in the sump for a few weeks? Any other ways?


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Unread 02/18/2014, 01:17 PM   #7
formsix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8r View Post
You're taking a chance---not with the fish, but with the sandbed. They're LESS likely. But if disease DOES get started in a batch of all-same-species it spreads so easily. All it takes is an LFS employee to use the same net on the captive-bred tank he used on the rest of the tanks. And look behind the store tanks. They very likely are piped to the same sump as the rest.
You're right and that makes sense. I had thought about the water and know that at the place I'm thinking of the clownfish tank is not plumbed into the rest of the system, but of course someone could be careless and use the wrong net or do something else risky.

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Don't take chances. That 12 weeks seems soooooooo long when you have to do it. It's just much easier to do it right from the start!
It does seem like a really long time, especially because I was just planning on just one QT tank -- that I suppose will always be in use!! At least I can start QT on my first fish as soon as I get my tank cycled (or as soon as I'm confident it's close), and I can add inverts to the DT to while the tank matures.


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Unread 02/18/2014, 01:17 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Crackem View Post
How do you cycle a Qt tank without using rock or sand? How about using a sponge that was in the sump for a few weeks? Any other ways?
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2195588


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Unread 02/21/2014, 08:15 AM   #9
KingSmith
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Qt

I have heard of and had success not QT ing a fish is it really always necessary?


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Unread 02/21/2014, 11:22 AM   #10
Sk8r
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Yes. Some dealers take their own precautions---but can slip up. It's like gambling at a casino. You win the first time--and the second and third. And you've piled up a lot of money. You gamble just once too often---and lose the whole pile.

A lot of people lose it on the first fish and have to leave their tank fishless for 12 weeks to cure it.

The really unlucky people finally lose it on the 9th, and lose 500.00 worth of fish and also have to leave their tank fishless for 12 weeks.

It's a question of playing the odds. All those of us who've been at this for decades can tell you is that beginners have the most mistakes with water quality, fish selection, water stability, and all such things as give advantage to the parasite...so beginners have uncommonly bad luck in the first place. If you're going to gamble, you're likeliest to lose the bet when you're new to the hobby. As an advisor on this forum, I usually have a number of cases a week where somebody's writing in saying, "What's wrong with my fish?" and it turns out, yes, the fish is in the display tank...


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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Unread 02/22/2014, 02:41 PM   #11
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how long should you leave them in the qt


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Unread 02/22/2014, 07:11 PM   #12
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I lost on the 8th fish. Nothing is dead though. I got them all into QT today. 12 weeks is soooo long.

Just QT. I wish i did


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Unread 02/23/2014, 09:02 AM   #13
sherief.elsayed
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How do you feel about uv sterilizers, I'm new to the hobby but heard once the parasite is free floating that the uv sterilizer would neutralize/or kill it . Any thoughts.


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Unread 02/23/2014, 03:28 PM   #14
Sk8r
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It's 4 weeks for qt.

I don't trust uv---I had some units in my pond, and 3 in succession caught fire, one nearly taking out the skimmer. I'm sure the marine ones are better-engineered, but I don't want another. It's expensive. Qt is cheap. And I'm dubious it would much slow ich down at all. There are thousands, all invisible. The chance of stopping all ich parasites before 1 got to your fish is very small, if it even affects these creatures.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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Unread 02/24/2014, 10:55 AM   #15
Reel North
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i was including leaving my DT fallow in the 12 weeks

if its less lemme know lol


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Unread 12/22/2014, 09:50 PM   #16
Jbsoccer06
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What should I be looking for in my QT tank during those 4 weeks?


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Unread 12/23/2014, 01:10 AM   #17
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Ich is easy sauce, things like Brook will make you want to pull your out within 24 hours.


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Unread 01/26/2015, 10:14 AM   #18
jeffdenney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8r View Post
Yes. Some dealers take their own precautions---but can slip up. It's like gambling at a casino. You win the first time--and the second and third. And you've piled up a lot of money. You gamble just once too often---and lose the whole pile.

A lot of people lose it on the first fish and have to leave their tank fishless for 12 weeks to cure it.

The really unlucky people finally lose it on the 9th, and lose 500.00 worth of fish and also have to leave their tank fishless for 12 weeks.

It's a question of playing the odds. All those of us who've been at this for decades can tell you is that beginners have the most mistakes with water quality, fish selection, water stability, and all such things as give advantage to the parasite...so beginners have uncommonly bad luck in the first place. If you're going to gamble, you're likeliest to lose the bet when you're new to the hobby. As an advisor on this forum, I usually have a number of cases a week where somebody's writing in saying, "What's wrong with my fish?" and it turns out, yes, the fish is in the display tank...
I was so excited for my first fish... ich took him in 5 days... it was too late once i figured it out.. im in week 10 of 12 fallow.. forver.....it seems.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbsoccer06 View Post
What should I be looking for in my QT tank during those 4 weeks?
Im interested in this also... besides the obvious spots and slime on fish and odd behavior....


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Unread 01/26/2015, 10:57 AM   #19
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Not sure I entirely agree with you Sk8r. Yes, absolutely QT the first, and all subsequent, fish, but if ich can hide in a fish's gills, thus not manifesting symptoms, not treating seems questionable. At least do TTM. Some years ago I had some anthias, with no symptoms, infect my display even after 12 weeks in QT. Spitting tacks I was. As I have built up a larger population of fish, I'm more inclined to treat prophylactically (though, I do understand this thread was about the first fish )


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Unread 01/26/2015, 11:13 AM   #20
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So.. I've been doing saltwater fish since 1997.. I've never had a fish with disease. Always bought from LFS, never online, they both had really clean/nice displays, ran UV.. They guaranteed their fish and would only sell them if they were eating well and looked healthy.

I'm curious, are most of you getting diseased fish from online retailers? I ask because there aren't any good options here so I'll likely be ordering all of my livestock online.. limited selection at the local pet store (I've never seen them carry any fish I wanted, although they could probably order them, their tanks don't look that clean/nice, they aren't running anything but a skimmer on each tank) or Petco.. which.. is where I think i'd be most likely to get a diseased fish... although they occasionally get some neat fish in and they have low prices.

Now, I've had freshwater fish with disease, mostly ich... just never had an issue with saltwater.


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Unread 01/26/2015, 11:19 AM   #21
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I dont understand why so many people are so stubborn with QT-ING NEW FISH.

Its NOT the end of the world!

it's a choice of keep ONE fish in QT for a couple weeks or have NO FISH in your MAIN TANK for 3 months... and possible most die...

take your pick...

i feel like stepping on someones tonsil when they keep saying "Well I Keep ich at bay with XYZ" Or " I haven't seen Ich in a while so I dont have to do anything".

I once compared it to a child. If the kid is sick but is showing no signs do you just let the kid rot from the inside or take him to the doc to make sure it is nothing major is happening not visible? You want to know what one response was? the guy said, well I was once sick as a child, my mom didnt take me to the doc, and i grew up tough as nails, I am still alive today...

That explained a lot.

Treat your fish as you would treat your children, or for some of you a sick child. Care for your animals.


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Unread 01/26/2015, 11:30 AM   #22
Nina51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FraggledRock View Post
i feel like stepping on someones tonsil when they keep saying "Well I Keep ich at bay with XYZ" Or " I haven't seen Ich in a while so I dont have to do anything".
haha, i'm gonna use that next time somebody gets on my wrong side.

and i totally agree with you. it's especially frustrating when an employee of an LFS says it!!!


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Unread 01/26/2015, 11:34 AM   #23
FraggledRock
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haha, i'm gonna use that next time somebody gets on my wrong side.

and i totally agree with you. it's especially frustrating when an employee of an LFS says it!!!
LOL be my guest! They will think twice about saying another word HAHA

BTW I thought Louisiana only had 4 floors HAHAH


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Unread 01/26/2015, 11:36 AM   #24
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I don't know if it is someones way of gambling or they just think they know everything. But the vast majority of people that do not QT end up in the fish disease forum eventually. Even then some are still resistant to QT. SMH


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Unread 01/26/2015, 11:39 AM   #25
FraggledRock
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I don't know if it is someones way of gambling or they just think they know everything. But the vast majority of people that do not QT end up in the fish disease forum eventually. Even then some are still resistant to QT. SMH
and they will never own up to the fact that they were forwarned about it and try to claim it was some magical ICH fairy dusting their fish after they bought a UV filter to kill the ICH

people somehow rely solely on spending money and buying gadgets to try to overcome the simple fine art of being patient.




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Current Tank Info: 40 Gallon Breeder w/ Bean Animal Overflow 20G Sump, Mixed Reef.
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