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Old 10/31/2017, 02:30 PM   #1
afm32607
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Return pump for 300 gallon tank

I have a tank with head pressure of about 10'. Any recommendations on pumps? Concerns are longevity, ease of maintenance, and a flow rate of 900-1800 GPH at 10'. I also want the pump to be controllable with Neptune apex, whether as a DC pump or not, so I would think that really only rules out the Vectra L1.

Currently using a Sicce 1900 pro, it is insufficient. I have developed a slime coating on the top of the tank, and according to their sheets at my HP it might only be pusing 500 gph.


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Old 10/31/2017, 02:41 PM   #2
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Got a budget?

With your need to be neptune controlled (I'm assuming you want speed control) your options might be slim to none at this time..


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Old 10/31/2017, 02:48 PM   #3
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I have size constraints and other things I would like to buy (like a Gyre) to help with the surface scum. I was thinking around $400-$500 for the return pump, if a controllable DC return pump will be guaranteed to rid me of the surface slime, without exceeding my sump capacity, I would have an extra $400-$600.

I don't care for it to be a DC pump to be honest, just need something quiet and powerful. I only mentioned controllable by Neptune to eliminate pumps that are not compatible.


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Old 10/31/2017, 06:28 PM   #4
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Controllable and head-pressure don't often collide in the same sentence. Sorry.

I would look for pure reliability and get a Laguna Max Flo or a Fluval SP series - just find on that has the flow that you are looking for. They are not power hungry and people have been running Askol based pumps for decades without issue. I can get about 1500 GPH at 15 feet of head from a Laguan, but I forget the model - maybe a 2900?


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Old 10/31/2017, 09:30 PM   #5
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Not sure I can think of a single DC pump that's going to give you that kind of net flow at 10' plus pipe friction. Not sure even the Abyzz will do it, and that's waaay out of your budget. Plus apex control for a main pump is rather pointless IME. Get a good AC pump,designed to handle pressure.


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Old 10/31/2017, 09:39 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
Not sure I can think of a single DC pump that's going to give you that kind of net flow at 10' plus pipe friction. Not sure even the Abyzz will do it, and that's waaay out of your budget. Plus apex control for a main pump is rather pointless IME. Get a good AC pump,designed to handle pressure.
Abyzz can do it as can the RD3 150 and RD3 230 without issue but are all over budget. Not sure about Apex connectivity with the Abyzz (I think they have 0-10v options) but those RD3’s only need the Apex cable.

That said, I am not sure why Apex control is needed for a return pump. Personally, I recommend agaist it. A return pump should be set it and forget and 0-10v control adds an additional point of failure. if a cable ever has an issue or the 0-10v channel on the controller ever has an issue, the pump will shut down. As such, I avoid 0-10v control on return pumps. Closed loop is another story. They are great for closed loop applications.


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Old 11/01/2017, 06:03 PM   #7
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Abyzz can do it as can the RD3 150 and RD3 230 without issue but are all over budget. Not sure about Apex connectivity with the Abyzz (I think they have 0-10v options) but those RD3ís only need the Apex cable.

That said, I am not sure why Apex control is needed for a return pump. Personally, I recommend agaist it. A return pump should be set it and forget and 0-10v control adds an additional point of failure. if a cable ever has an issue or the 0-10v channel on the controller ever has an issue, the pump will shut down. As such, I avoid 0-10v control on return pumps. Closed loop is another story. They are great for closed loop applications.
I agree with Scott 100%! I too feel we need to decrease points of failure on the items that are most essential like return pump.

BTW Scott, the Abyzz is controllable via the Apex. Terence of Neptune Systems himself runs an Abyzz via his Apex.


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Old 11/01/2017, 10:07 PM   #8
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I want to be able to shut off the pumps when I feed the tank. Gives timid fish like my copper band more time to eat. Then I want to walk away because I am in a hurry and don't always have time to sit and wait for the fish to finish eating. Some times all I get to do is feed the fish without getting a chance to look at them.

I don't need to be able to ramp the pump. However, I would not be opposed to being able to overbuy on the pump for higher flow in the event my math is wrong.

What internal AC pumps would you recommend with that kind of flow that is quiet and reliable?


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Old 11/01/2017, 10:08 PM   #9
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Also you can set alerts on the Neptune in the event the cable fails and the pump shuts down. Just an fyi.


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Old 11/01/2017, 11:10 PM   #10
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Also you can set alerts on the Neptune in the event the cable fails and the pump shuts down. Just an fyi.
I’ve been using the Apex since it was first released and have been using Neptune Controllers since 1995 when they first started using them. As far as I am aware, there is no way for the Apex to alert you of a 0-10v failure. If you had a flow sensor that was appropriately sized, you could set an alarm for the lack of flow. If you have an Apex 2016, you can set an alert for the drop in amperage on that particular EB8 outlet. If you have a sump “too high” level sensor, you could create an alarm for the increased sump level but that would be your only indication of a 0-10v failure unless they added some new code support that I’m not aware of. I’ll be honest. I am not a fan of shutting return pumps off for feeding. I use the return flow to distribute the food throughout the tank. This benefits small and shy fish and corals alike. Shutting your pump off for feeding allows food to settle contributing to detritus, it raises the sump level which necessitates shutting the skimmer off too or deal with overflows. Shutting the skimmer off every day impacts the skimmers consistency and also causes salt creep in the venturi port result in skimmer overflows and increased maintenance. Shutting pumps off everyday also will increase wear and tear and often leads to premature failures.

There are no true AC pumps with that are 0-10v controllable that would meet your needs as far as I am aware..


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Last edited by slief; 11/01/2017 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 11/02/2017, 09:14 PM   #11
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I only shut down return pump, the MP 40s keep the flow up. Keeps food in the tank from going into the sump. I know straight shutting it off is a problem, which is why I was thinking DC, at food time I could ramp it down as opposed to cutting it off. i.e. run a three minute rampdn function from 100% to 10% with a virtual outlet or something.

As far as the Apex goes, if you were to plug it into an outlet, when that outlet goes out (cause the pump shuts off) you can set an alert, on the 2016 version only.

I am unaware of AC pumps that can go 0-10v.

Im thinking I would go with the Red Dragon 230w or 130. Or a water blaster 16000, if I go with AC


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Old 11/02/2017, 10:06 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by afm32607 View Post

As far as the Apex goes, if you were to plug it into an outlet, when that outlet goes out (cause the pump shuts off) you can set an alert, on the 2016 version only.

I am unaware of AC pumps that can go 0-10v.

Im thinking I would go with the Red Dragon 230w or 130. Or a water blaster 16000, if I go with AC
The power outlet on the EB8 would not go off when 0-10v goes out. The 0-10v does nothing to the EB outlets. The power outlet remains on but the pumps controller sends 0% power to the motor itself when it sees 0v. When it sees 5v it sends 50% power and 10v 100% power. As such, your EB8 outlet will be useless in determining a 0-10v issue short of using the current draw for that outlet as your fail safe and that can only be done with the 2016 since the 2016 monitors current draw at each individual outlet.

As for the Red Dragons, either would meet your needs in terms of your flow requirements at that head level. Then there is the new pressure version of both pumps but that only makes sense when the head is over 12í. For the cost difference, Iíd go with the RD3 230 and run it at a lower power. They are beasts in terms of flow per watt even when compared to pumps like the Abyzz. Especially if the pressure version is being compared. Granted for extremely high head pressures, the Abyzz canít be beat as there is nothing in variable speed pump class that can produce the flow at the higher head levels that the Abyzz can. That does however come at a price in terms of wattage and cost of the pump. I run two of the RD3 230ís on my tank that I paid full price for and absolutely love those pumps. Iíve been running them for over 2 years now. If I needed a pump that could give a lot of flow at 25í, the Abyzz would be on my short list though Iíd likely go with an Iwaki at that point just because they are the most bullet proof AC pump money can buy and reliability (as well as cost) is important to me. Granted, the RD3ís arenít cheap but theyíve paid for themselves in terms of the power savings since I donít need to run a chiller on my system anymore and they are very efficient compared to the Iwakiís and Reefloís that Iíve run in the past.


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Old 11/03/2017, 04:12 PM   #13
afm32607
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If the 0-10v goes out and the pump no longer draws power, the eb832 outlet it is plugged into will be drawing no power, and as a result set off the alert. No?


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Old 11/03/2017, 04:13 PM   #14
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I guess I mean the current draw on the individual outlet, I have the newest version. sorry for the confusion.


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