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Old 02/24/2006, 08:06 PM   #101
reefD
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very interested in this info as im at the 2 month point of having my angler. he is happy and eating currently frozen silver sides. i keep researching anglers and keep reading about an issue that can arise later when keeping these guys. it is all related to nutrition and them stop eating...or stop moving ..and starving to death. i want to avoid this and am wondering if i should start just throwing a blue chromis in the tank for him to eat.
my concern is what if he doesnt show interest in the live food? i mean immediatly? should you just leave a live fish in there to entice and eventually the angler will come too?.........you know he will make the chromis make a nighttime disapearence (eat 'em up). thanks again for your info and this thread! its great for us with anglers and dealing with the specific care issues and questions that arise with these strange and remarkably adapted creatures.


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Old 02/24/2006, 09:02 PM   #102
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thank you for the explaination of that. so at this point you should just start adding live fish into the tank for the angler to hunt and eat? if he is languid will he hunt the live food?
thanks for the info

ohh yeah what are the white spots you speak of? do the go away when they begin feeding on live food? just absorbing info! thanks all!


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The author says that for three years guppies (acclimated over 4 to 8 weeks to salinty threshold of 9 to 10ppt.) have been the chief diet of her two adolescent wartskin frogfish and for the last year her adult coinbearing frogfish. At least twice a week they feed on a few saltwater guppies......they will also accept small frozen shrimp waved in front of their faces The author makes no further mention about the white spots in this article. I have been feeding Charlie small pieces of silverside or krill every two to three days......he's a juvenile so his metabolism is higher. I am giving him one guppy (fed marine flake) per week right now. I'm in the process of acclimating my guppies to saltwater and waiting for babies to be born to have a constant supply.......Charlie goes crazy when he sees the guppy coming his way. I just release it near him and the shock of full saltwater slows it down enough for Charlie to score!

Hope this helps,
Janey


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Old 02/24/2006, 09:12 PM   #103
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The first time I offered Charlie a guppy he showed no interest......in fact, he was intimidated by it! My daughter works at the LFS and said there was a blue damsel in with Charlie at the store, and he could never catch it.....thus he just gave up......he's only 3 inches long and I think the damsel was too big and he lost his confidence. Once he found he COULD catch and eat a guppy he regained his condidence. I offered him a guppy for the second time today and he immediately started luring and got all excited. Took him about 30 seconds to snag him If your angler is full grown I would think a small chromis or blue damsel would not be too much of a challenge. Just be sure they have gone through quarantine as not to give you guy some unwanted disease......just thought I'd share my expereince.....

Janey


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Old 02/24/2006, 09:27 PM   #104
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thanks!
im am still wondering about the white spots. what are they and why do they appear? anyone with this info please chime in. maybe the key is small live food(guppies) versus bigger damsels and such. i think this fish may be shocked by eating good sized pieces of froozen food. I still am wishing someone would find an answer why the frozen food is inadaqute versus live. is it to big? and when we speak of live i feel we are only talking about guppies. whats wrong with other fish? is it wrong. sorry for the relentless questioning but im inqisitive to know this stuff.lol


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Old 02/25/2006, 08:32 PM   #105
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anyone with info on these white spots?


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Old 02/26/2006, 07:18 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fishy1
Sorry It's always sad when they go.......I've had three and my friend has had two. They always seem to go around the two year mark. The one I have now is a juvenile painted and I'm going to try a different approach. My friend subscribes to the "Coral" magazine. I think that is the right name. It's the one that comes out every other month and is transcribed from German into English. Anyway there is an author/doctor who wrote an article about Frogfish in this months magazine. She said the reason they die in captivity is that they slowly starve to death even when eating thawed frozen food, ie. shrimp, silversides. They eventually will start breathing hard and stop eating altogether. It is critical at that time to get some "live" food into their diet. According to her, they are starving for "live" food! She has successfully kept frogfish alive for over three years feeding them guppies that are gut loaded with marine food and acclimated to low salinity saltwater. I'm going to get a copy of the article from my friend and try out what she says. Janey
Janey - did you find out what issue of Coral has the article that you refer to?


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Old 02/26/2006, 08:20 AM   #107
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Hi

I have a scanned copy of the article and it says "Coral" at the bottom of the page........my friend told me it was in "this months" magazine a couple of weeks ago. I tried to call her but she's not home so I assume it's February's issue.......if not it would be January but I thought they only published every other month......hope this helps The author's name is Professor Ellen Thaler.............article is called, "Saltwater" Guppies as Live Food.

Janey


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Old 02/26/2006, 08:47 AM   #108
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Current English version of Coral Magazine, Feb-Mar 2006, Vol 3, No. 1

Article is titled: "Saltwater" Guppies as Live Food by Dr Ellen Thaler who, I believe, is a professor at the University of Innsbruck, Austria.

She advocates the use of guppies rasied in semi-marine salinites as feeder fishes. Her recommendations are based on her own experiences with two 3-year-old Antennarius maculatus and an adult Antennarius nummifer which she also occasionally feeds frozen shrimp.

But I raised a commerson almost exclusively on defrosted frozen for over four years (ultimately killing him with a heater malfunction) and have many anglers over two years in captivity that have never been fed live foods. I also have a few fellows that will eat nothing but live foods. They will get mollies, guppies, f/w ghost shrimp, and marine shrimp.

I am still of the opinion that a varied diet is the key to successful angler husbandry. An exclusive diet of defrosted silversides is much too fatty and would probably promote liver degeneration. Pietsch and Grobecker examined (dissected) a variety of reef frogfishes and found:

"the diets of frogfishes consists of a highly varied, overlapping assortment of prey types"

I think that guppies and mollies have their use in the feeding of froggies. But I still advocate other (primarily marine) and varied feed items for frogfish health.

I think that many are discounting cryptocaryon and amyloodinium diagnosis in the deaths of thir frogfishes.


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Old 02/26/2006, 08:47 AM   #109
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There is a February/March issue that people would already have. The next issue is April/May (see www.coralmagzine.com). I had a subscription that seems to have expired One of the very best marine hobby related magazines out there IMO. The site says you can buy back issues for $10 if they have them in stock. I'll call them tomorrow and see. Thanks for the info.


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Old 02/26/2006, 09:20 AM   #110
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I'm thinking about subscribing too, Cherie

I have to admit that it is so much watching "Charlie" lure and get excited about a live guppie. I agree that a varied diet would be best......thus, I'm hoping he never turns his nose/lure up at frozen krill and an occasional silverside

Janey


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Old 02/26/2006, 05:35 PM   #111
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has anyone out there experienced white spots on thier angler? i guess this is also is accompanied with no feeding. any info?


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Old 02/26/2006, 10:06 PM   #112
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sorry to but in, but i have a quick question.

i have kept 3 anglers in the past (wartskin) sargassum, and striated, the tank i think i might setup for an angler, is a 20l zoo reef. what species do you think would be best suited.


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Old 02/26/2006, 10:35 PM   #113
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20 long is a low tank. Any of the smaller ones might work... pictus, maculatus, etc. Dwarf anglers like Randall or Tuberosus if you can find those.

Commersons/Giant gets too big. Sargassum might jump out if you don't have a cover.


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Old 02/26/2006, 10:38 PM   #114
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thanks ill go with the maculatus, or tuberosus


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Old 03/01/2006, 06:08 AM   #115
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Sad Day

I suppose there are only a handful of people that will appreciate my sadness in reporting that I had to euthanize my frogfish, Fuggly (my avatar), early this morning. It was time. He started exhibiting buoyancy control problems about a week ago. I had hope since he ate a live marine shrimp as recently as this past weekend. I thought he might come around, but he continued to go downhill.

I got this frogfish as a 1.5” juvenile (see the first page of this thread before it split), just under 2.5 years ago. He never would take anything but live food, so he’s always gotten marine feeder fish or marine shrimp – who were in turn quarantined (the fish) and fed the best marine fish food. I don’t know how much that had to do with the length of time I was able to keep him (or her – I never knew). I don’t think we know much about their longevity in the wild, but 2.5 years seems to be more than most in captivity.

At any rate, I’ll miss this fish with all the color changes, watching him stalk his prey and his preference for hanging upside down from his refugium home. I’m fascinated w/ these fish, so I will look for another one soon.


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Old 03/01/2006, 07:44 AM   #116
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Sorry Cherie


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Old 03/01/2006, 09:33 AM   #117
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Very sorry to hear, Cherie

You provided a good home to him for a long time.


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Old 03/01/2006, 09:36 AM   #118
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So sorry, Cherie, that you lost Fuggly I hope you can find another one that steals your heart

In the article from "Coral" magazine, Ellen Thaler states that they can live over 10 years in the wild.......that's the first I've seen in print about how long they can live......

Janey


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Old 03/13/2006, 01:43 PM   #119
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I know some of us have picked up new frogs lately. Any pics? Info on their tank systems?

I got these two pictus frogs this weekend. A grey pink one, and a red one. They're both in a 72 bow front lagoonal sps/lps/zoa reef.
This is the first time I'm keeping 2 frogs in the same tank. I think they'll be ok together because there are a lot of caves and crevices to define different territories.











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Old 03/13/2006, 01:48 PM   #120
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congrats on the nice find!!!

You guys in cali are soo lucky with the good supply of fish and corals u have access to


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Old 03/13/2006, 02:04 PM   #121
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I'm extra lucky because my LFS guy loves frogs, and keeps an eye out for them He kept an orange one out of that batch for himself too.

Also lucky me... all the corals in those pics were freebies or trades


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Old 03/13/2006, 02:06 PM   #122
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Sweet!!!

Do you have any plans for how you'll keep that gorgeous red color on the second frogfish?

I wish I'd taken first day photos of my new frogfish (Jaba) when he was bright banana yellow! After only one week, he's already changing! The back half of him is darker yellow and the front half of him is getting distinctly orangish/yellow. He's also developed one hot orangish-pink spot on his front dorsal spine region! I need to get some pictures before he changes any more!


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Old 03/13/2006, 02:12 PM   #123
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Hi Cherie!

I won't mind if he changes color. I love the red, but I"m just glad to have froggies again I'll be happy as long as he's happy and healthy!

Jaba... great name Yes, take some pics! Lucky me - I got to see Jaba when he was acclimating at the store


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Old 03/14/2006, 09:50 AM   #124
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When they first went in the tank, they ended up side by side to each other and kept shoving each other back and forth like little kids

After that, they explored the tank and found different spots to hang out. Last night they got back together again.




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Old 03/14/2006, 06:40 PM   #125
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the red guy will fade unless you add some brightly redish colors to your tank. also i would be worried about canabalism in future. always possible with anglers! look like buddies now but when one get really hungry the other may be in trouble. i have seen this. anglers hanging out for weaks but then one day an accidental nip at the tail reassures the fish that this taste and could eventually be food


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