My article on a DIY two part additive has posted

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My article on a DIY two part calcium and alkalinity additive has posted at:

A Homemade Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Additive System
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...l2004/chem.htm

[Scyphozoan]

Great article easy to understand,thanks.
Now all I need to do is find some Dow 77-80% in Canada.

[Newflee]

Thanks for the info Randy. I made some up tonight but fell asleep while I was baking the soda at 300 C. (Damn Beer)
Is it OK if the soda is baked for 3 hours?
I found that the baked soda/ water mixture needed to be brought to near boiling to dissolve completely....is this normal? I initially just added the baked soda to cold R.O. water and ended up with a chunk of precipitate or undissolved soda. After puting some heat to it it went into solution well. Any problem with this as far as your concerned?

I added the appropriate amount tonight and it appeared to react the same as the ESV stuff I used years ago (when I had less volume and deeper pockets for snake oil). The soda "smoked" like a cloud as it was added (momentarily).

Ph seemed unaffected for the most part at least at the resolution my portable unit represents.
Ca and Alk were tested before and after additions and expected increases were shown (within reasonable testing limitations of my hobby titrations)

This could be a good option to Kalkwaser for additional Ca/alk besides my Ca reactor. I never have had any success with Kalkwasser, but I attribute that to my reluctance to buy a paristaltic pump and rather rely on unreliable dripping gismos.


Lee

[Newflee]

Originally posted by Scyphozoan
Great article easy to understand,thanks.
Now all I need to do is find some Dow 77-80% in Canada.

You can get a sack of food grade Calcium chloride from a local chemical distributor. In Winnipeg, it's about $50.00 for 45 lbs.
I can post the name of the company tomorow if you like...just can't think of it right now.

To be honest I have been dosing a brand called "ice Melt" made by Stone Mason and available at Home Depot in Canada. Of course I don't have the ability of testing for contaminants as Randy does but I see no problems with my reef after using it. In the past I have used it for booster calcium additions sometimes in large quantities with no negative signs.

Randy, it would be interesting if you would do some tests on this brand so that us Canadians could have comfort in knowing what we can use safely. I could send you a nickel bag of it if you wouldn't mind doing so. Of course the food grade stuff should be ok but I never imagined I would need 45 lbs of the stuff.....maybe now I will.

[ri]

Thanks for all the time and effort you put into this project!

ri

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is fine to bake the baking soda longer. Mine did not take any heating to dissolve. Perhaps you drove yours farther toward Na2CO3. Mine went in without heat, but I allowed it to sit for quite a while. Maybe stirring with a powerhead is a good solution. HOWEVER, if you heat or boil water and baking soda you may endup with something more equivalent to the washing soda recipe, as the heating drives off CO2 from the water. It is still fine to use it, however.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Lee:

I won't be doing any more testing right away, but down the road it is a possibility.

[Newflee]

Ok thanks Randy. I didn't want to sound too suggestive. Perhaps I'll have a local lab look at your procedure and have them do the same on the Canadian brand. My corals and I are happy with it so far but others might not want to risk it without some data. I'll look into it.

[marm64]

Thanks for the good info Randy. I am going to try this if I can find the Dow at any store, heck it has snowed in Minnesota in every month but August so you would not think that they would get rid of it.

Thanks again for all your valueable information.

[Newflee]

Scyphozoan,
The company that you can get food grade calcium chloride from in Canada is called Univar. I'm sure they have an office in Calgary. You'll have to buy a 45 lb sack but at least you can rest assured that it is food grade. I assume that means that it is safe. perhaps Randy has an opinion on "food grade" chemicals.

[Scyphozoan]

Thanks Newflee,for the tip on Univar.Dow has a sales office and MFG.plant here,but I haven't been able to get in touch with anyone yet.When I do I'll find out where to get 77-80% or if it's sold here under a different name and post it here.They must go home early on Fridays all I got was the answering machine.I'll try Monday if I'm finished work early enough.

[AcroSteve]

Thanks Randy.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Your welcome, guys.

Food grade CaCl2 is likely to be OK, yes.

[Znut Reefer]

Randy,

Have you found a dosage chart, or should it be added about like ESV B-ionic? Just curious as how much is added per daily dosage.

Thanks.

[Mimbler1]

ESV is a concentrate of 54,000 ppm ca versus 37,000 of Randy's formula. You can just use the doseage chart for B-ionic and multipy it by 54/37 and you will have the correct dose.

[Newflee]

I think all "charts should be tossed. you must test for ca/alk fairly regularly anyway,
Dose and test as usual. I'm sure Rndy won't feel comfortable giving commercial product numbers nor could he not knowing your systems particulars.
Even ESV or Kent etc would not be able to offer a dosing regimen without a track record.


Lee

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree, although many folks use such charts to make corrections (add X mL per gallon to get an increase of Y ppm Ca++, etc.), and they would be suitable for that.

[Mimbler1]

"I'm sure Rndy won't feel comfortable giving commercial product numbers nor could he not knowing your systems particulars."

I agree Lee, I was giving the relative strengths so people could use the calculator to make corrections as Randy mentioned in his later post. For continued use, as you say, the only possible method is to monitor your tank regularly.

BTW, Randy, what was the limiting factor in your recipe that precludes making it at Bionic strength? This is just curiosity, not a criticism, as I'm delighted to have this simple economic alternative to the commercial products. With a 200 gal tank, it will save me a lot of money. I had run a calcium reactor in the past, and did not like the results (either from low ph or po4 release). My tank does much better with kalk supplemented by the 2 parters as necessary.
Mike

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is the solubility of the alkalinity part that can become limiting. For B-ionic, the bicarbonate B-ionic is much less concentrated than the normal one:

http://www.esvco.com/prod14.html

"B-Ionic Calcium Bicarbonate System is one quarter the strength of our original formula because bicarbonate salts are less soluble than carbonate salts. "

You may be able to make the baked baking soda recipe to higher strength, but it may depend a bit on how successful your baking is in driving out CO2, and also in how well you can stir to mix. ESV can stir all they want with powerful mixers, but I did not assume that everyone can do that. But if it dissolves, you can make it more concentrated.

Good luck!

[Mimbler1]

Thanks Randy - I don't really need a higher concentration, as I'm using a litermeter to dose it, and can just dial up a higher number. I was curious though, an unanswered question is like an itch I can't scratch!
Mike

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You're welcome.

Good luck with it!

[Greg Hiller]

Randy,

I read through the article a little more closely. It looks like not a heck of a lot of MgCl2 is necessary to balance things (as you eluded to in the article). My calculations suggest that for the Mg supplement if you dropped down to 865 g MgSO4.7H2O/gallon, and added 374 grams MgCl2/gallon the ratios of SO4 to Cl would balance back out. I purchased some food grade MgCl2 (as Nigari) from Herbalhut.com a while back for (as I recall) about $35 for 2.5 kg. The question is, is it MgCl2, or MgCl2.2H20, as the Dowflake stuff? If it were MgCl2.H2O, then you'd need 514 g/gallon. There is a CAS number on it of 7791-18-6, I wonder if it's possible to tell from that? I don't want to go to the trouble of testing it. I've used the MgCl2 in my tank to boost Mg levels with no obvious problems.

[Greg Hiller]

Doh! Looks like Nigari is MgCl2.6H2O (becoming more expensive per mole Mg every minute!). So, anyhow, you would then need 865 G MgSO4.7H20/gallon (as before), and 730 g MgCl2.6H20/gallon. FWIW.

[Newflee]

Randy, I think I can recall you saying on another thread that you personally do not add Magnesium and find that your levels remain ok. Is this so? If so have you added the Magnesium supplement to this system just so that it ballances on paper.

I may just be confused and remembering in error.

Lee

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks, Greg.
Are you using The Nigari now?

Lee:

That is correct, my magnesium levels were reasonably normal without supplementation. Bear in mind that I have not been using this DIY two part additive, so any deficiency that it might cause or correct is not reflected in my aquaria.

I use limewater. I mention magneisum in my aquarium in this article:

Magnesium in Reef Aquaria
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2003/chem.htm

"I would suggest that an alternative way that aquaria using only limewater might become deficient in magnesium over time is that the limewater is simply not delivering magnesium to the aquarium even though it is present in the solid lime. How and why this might happen was discussed above involving the precipitation of magnesium hydroxide in the limewater reservoir. This lack of addition coupled to the ongoing removal of magnesium in calcification could lead to deficiencies in magnesium. Such deficiencies have not become extensive in my aquarium, but it does not have an especially high rate of calcification, and perhaps water changes have eliminated the problem. In any case, those using only limewater (or other systems that do not deliver magnesium) may want to occasionally check magnesium."