Eric's "famous" coral food recipe

[EricHugo]

As promised, here is my recipe for coral chow - with a bit of a preface.

I rarely have or use all of the ingredients listed, and I don't think it will make a difference over the long term. I also use this, or a variation of it, for my homemade fish food (I leave the fish food chunker and add various algae). Basically, I either use what is left over from the last round of food-making, or I go to a few stores and get whatever they might have at the time. I feed this to the tank at night, generally, and would add that for some of the ingredients, I have no idea if they have any specific role. Its just what I have done before. I have also changed a bit with some other foods now available (since I have written this last time)

I try to get a mix of particle sizes involved to accomodate not just all sizes of polyps, but also feed other inverts that filter feed.

Fresh seafood:

Some combination of the ingredients below and it makes up a relatively small percent of the total - maybe 10-20%?

shrimp (I squeeze the heads and usually use the "meat" in the fish food)
oysters - blend well and may have Vibriostatic properties
various other shellfish (mussels, clams, periwinkles, etc. - the bloodier, the better...live is great (shucking sucks but gives a good final product)
Fish roe (sometimes available at Asian markets)


Frozen foods

This makes up perhaps 20-30% of the mix - some are from an aquarium store, some from the grocer

Artemia - adult
Artemia nauplii (baby brine shrimp) (enriched, if possible)
Mysid shrimp
Sea urchin roe
Flying fish roe

Dried Aquarium Foods

this makes up the majority of my mix - probably 40%

Golden Pearls - all sizes available, but a majority of the smallest size
Cyclop-Eze
VibraGro
Powdered marine flake

Phytoplankton

makes up maybe 2% of mix or less?

Tahitian Blend (I use DT's seperately)

Supplements

makes up maybe 2-5% of mix?

Super Selco ( a big squeeze)
Sea Green Vitamin supplements - various brands, powdered, from Whole Foods market

I have also been known to add Echinacea capsules, the skins of colorful vegetables and fruits, various pigment complexes of carotenoids, etc. and/or antioxidants from Whole Foods market.

In terms of preparation, I puree the solid seaoods, mix in the frozen ingredients, soak the dry/powdered ingredients in the wet ingredients, combine them all together and let them sit for a few hours, and then freeze them into small flats in ziplocs in the freezer. I usually wind up with about 50.00 in foods per batch and make about a gallon or so of food that lasts a couple or more months.

I'll leave this thread open, but stuck, to invite comments and questions.

[zenya]

Thanks for posting,Eric. I never tried vibra-gro, does it come in pellet form?
I'll look for it regardless,it'll be ground into mush anyway:)

[EricHugo]

comes in a large and small pellet - I use the small pellet.

[Fishysan]

Great, thanks for the "recipe" update!

You know, that might be good on crackers! :)

I gather the various pigment complexes" are to enhance the available pigments for coral color?

BTW, the how many of the Echinacea powdered capsules are you adding to a typical batch? 1 or 2?

Thanks again Eric!

[EricHugo]

Last time I used it, I think I added about 10? Haven' t done it in awhile cause last time I bough Echinacea to stave of impending cold, I got an Echinacea/Goldenseal tablet with some fillers and decided not to use it. Yes, on the pigment rationale and for antioxidant benefits, if any. Like I said, I have no real evidence that it helps, but it seems to be a general truism in multicellular animals that such things are fairly conserved. I certainly never saw any downside from their use, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, too. Some of these things may be toxic...I have no idea.

[Fishysan]

toxic indeed.. who knows, we can be careful and resonably smart about a number of things, but who knows all the things we end up putting in our tanks. Things do survive though, and, as we do well prosper..

Of course, I had a little OOPs last night, in a clam crisis while being tired, I reached into the tank.. and my tank is still buggered tonight - a bit of a haze in the water and had a bit of an oil skim to the sump water surface. In my haste, my usual "rinse the first layer of skin off my arms" was omitted.. need to get some gloves!!

The skimmer's still not skimming, and I'm running carbon, hopefully it will clear up by tomorrow.

But I digress.. sorry. Who knows what "toxins" I've introduced.


:(

[michaelg]

Eric- you forgot the second part of the disclaimer in the fish recipe- that you are not accountable for any resulting divorces/whaps upside the head- after the spouse sees, smells, and realizes you used the margahrita blender. Also, most food processors do not seal well enough on the top to prevent spills. The mix gets pretty thick and more liquid needs to be added through the process or you will burn out the blender motor (I already killed one :)

I noticed that you still do the fish food seperate from the coral mix. I never quite understood this, though I have relatively small fish species in the tanks. I grind heavy at the start and then slowly less as more is added, finishing with a some handchopped to give some decent chuncks for the fish. Also, I make it by the blender, which gives about 8-12 baggies. I keep 3 and sell the rest at cost or trade. The 3 bags last me 3 months, though I have a relatively small system. Point is, it makes a lot of food just from a standard blender. The home brew is loved by fish- I have used it for fist foods for bangaiis and other fish, and have received great reports of the fish going nuts over the stuff. For shucking clams and mussels, I have an old hammer head and just crack them right open.

Michael

[EricHugo]

Michael:

Good points.

And, to be honest, whether I do coral food separate from fish food depends on what's available, how much, and how much effort I decide to put in it that go round.

[ReefHobbyist]

I have a question about feeding time. You said you feed at night, but do you target feed or just put it in the water column and let the current deliver it?

Thanks,
Scott

[EricHugo]

I just put it in the water.

[Harpo]

Hi Eric

Thanks for the recipe!

I also have koi-- I was wondering if a high end koi food based on shrimp would be suitable for the dry component of the recipe?

Thank you, Mark

[EricHugo]

I know nothing about koi except that Larry Jackson has a cool pool full of them and I see them at some Chinese restaraunts, they seen to poop a lot, and there was a "rogue" koi in a funny scene in the movie, Duece Bigalow, Male Gigolo.

Seriously, I can only imagine there is room for improvement in all prepared animal feeds...but I have no idea what is appropriate for koi.

[michaelg]

I think he was asking if the dry koi food could be used in the marine recipe. I would say look at the ingredients in the food. Personally, for feeding animals from the ocean, I try to use mostly ingredients from the ocean. The only dry ingredients I put into my mix are some golden pearls, spirulina powder, and nori sheets. I have been also throwing in some Hikari freeze dried plankton cause it was onsale, but probably won't regularly include this.

Michael

[EricHugo]

Yeah, I know...but have no idea what's in koi food or what their requirements are in terms of providing equivalent nutrition to marines...likely to be different in needs for various AA's. should have made that more clear.

[Harpo]

The koi food in question lists ingredients of white fish meal, wheatgerm meal, red shrimp meal, skimmed soybean meal, skimmed rice bran, yeast. 35% protein 3.5% fat.

I'm wondering how that compares to the powdered marine flake listed in the dried ingredients part of the recipe.

Mark

[EricHugo]

I don't know. A list of ingredients and the nutritional profile might show them to be similar or very different...and I suppose it depends on which marine flake we are talking about. As I said, that recipe is far from cast in stone. Try the koi food...I doubt its going to kill anything. OTOH, a can of flake food for marines costs about 2 bucks.. The time its taken for us to reply to these posts probably isn't even worth that two bucks, you know?

[BLUE LAGOON]

Eric
I want to say thanks for your visit to St.Pete that the Tampa reef club had.ENJOY

But on your food for your corals goes.By feeding your fish,then adding your exotic coral food into the system.Do you have any problems with and out break of unwanted algaes?

You we were envoled in another thread,about the guy in Puerto Rico.About him having the Elkhorn coral in his tank?The thread seemed to stop for now.I would love to have this coral in my reef tank someday,like all other reefers.But he seemed the ONLY one having it in a reef tank.And keeping it ALIVE.If it's the real deal,would like to hear the update on this coral.
Thanks
Curt

[EricHugo]

>>But on your food for your corals goes.By feeding your fish,then adding your exotic coral food into the system.Do you have any problems with and out break of unwanted algaes? <<

LOL - if I had algae problems, why would I use this food? I haven;t had algae probelms in my tanks for ..well, ever. At least not since the first time I ever set up a reef for about three months afterwards. I get seasonal cyanobacteria blooms every year that last about a month and go away all on their own.

A couple things here...first, there is a relatively low correlation of nutrients and algae if there is adequate grazing. If you have an algae problem, unless the tank is seriously set up wrong or mismanaged, or its a very unpalatable algae, more grazers will fix the problem. Second, I don't have high dissolved nutrients (my tank was one in Ron's first article in his series on metals...you can see the data points - very low nitrogen and phsophorous). Therefore, no algae problem related to nutrients, even if algae were directly related to nutrients. Finally, it is my distinct impression and experience that our tanks can ordinarily handle rather monstrous loads of food if you either have good uptake or export or both. Most people that begin to up their food inputs quit if they see a hint of algae starting. Its like when you first start a tank...algae respond to an increase in nutrients quickly...as do bacteria and cyano - they eventually reach a new stable level and the nutrient levels in the water drop back down again....you can do this over and over if the tank is set up right until you see the amount of food you can put in a tank till you eventually max out your uptake and export...at that point, you stop, or you increase uptake and export and feed even more. Or, you add more grazers. You force the bioload in tanks anyway...why not force the grazine, too, of it means keeping the energy available through food in the water higher. Personally, I don;t think I have really high grazing in the tank, I just have a good feeling already what my inputs can be without causing a problem. Sometimes, I may go several nights without feeding, and then decide to dump a bottle of DT's in the tank (32 oz) and a 1/4 cup of Golden Pearls. Or take half a flat of the food above and add it all at once. (No, I'm not kidding in the slightest). Best case scenario is not add foods that tend to cause higher dissolved nutrients (live foods) - and ideally, I'd be culturing live foods and keeping a steady flow into the tank. Time and practicality limit my ability to do this.

Its no magic...just ecology and biology in action. and...as has been said over and over again by myself and many others.....patience. Lots of it.

[EricHugo]

Just another hint from what I can say in retrospect of all these years...In general, most folks tend to sweat the small stuff....

What's the best way to add calcium
What K rating is the best for lighting
What's the best brand of additives.

These are non-issues. All the big issues, at least in my mind, have very little thought paid to them, and relatively poor solutions available.

The algae thing has plagued so many people with well maintained and set-up tanks for so many years and its a small thing to fix. Do a water change, increase the flow, buy more snails and tangs and blennies, and sit back and relax ;)

[SawCJack00]

Hi Eric, I just made up a batch of "Borneman's mush" this weekend and thought I'd ask a question as well as present a tip if you think what I'm doing will not harm the fish or corals (I'm fairly certain that it doesn't because I've been doing it for almost 2 years now:) ). What I do is to mix my mush then pour it (or scrape it) into ice cube trays. I then feeze it and put the food cubes into ziplock bags for use. One thing that I noticed with my first batch was the "distinctive" smell that it left on my hands after feeding. In my second batch I decided to add cloves of fresh garlic as a preventative measure for ich (I figured it couldn't hurt). I found that by doing this, the fishy oder left on my hands was now garlicy instead. To me being Italian and all, this is much more palatable, because even though I was vigorously before and after feeding, that "distinctive" smell didn't always come all the way off. Now if there is any remaining oder, at least, I like the oder!:D My question is do you see any harm in adding fresh garlic to the mush? I hope not as I just made up about 2 gallons of the stuff:)

[BLUE LAGOON]

I also used the Garlic, for 2 years now.And since then,there has been no Ich.But you might to want to try this instead.Instead using garlic cloves.You can go to grocery store,where they have vitamins.They sell Garlic tablets in the ( gel form).Just cut the capules, or puncher them and pour in.This makes it a lot easier than try to blend whole cloves of garlic.The gel will give you a better mixture.
Curt

[BLUE LAGOON]

I had been reading on the boards.That you can't get Golden Pearls.Does anybody have an up date on this?
Curt

[SPC]

Originally posted by EricHugo
Finally, it is my distinct impression and experience that our tanks can ordinarily handle rather monstrous loads of food if you either have good uptake or export or both.

Hi Eric,
I agree with this statement but was wondering if you would be a bit more specific on what you mean by "uptake" and "export"?
For instance, how do you get the detritus out of your tank?
Steve

[EricHugo]

Garlic shoudl be fine, though I am unawware of any direct proof of its utility against ich. As for uptake and export...ptake is when organisms use nutrients and produce biomass...i.e. growth and reproduction or sequestration into non-living mass (skeleton, etc.) - export is removal - via harvesting, skimming, water changes, etc.

[SPC]

Eric, I have read where you have stated that you don't use a skimmer, what would you say your main export is on your system?
Steve

[EricHugo]

Growth - almost has to be. but this is off topic...if you want to ask more questions like these, let's start a new thread.

[David_Winther]

Eric,

What would you expect the shelf life on your mush to be if it was kept in the freezer?

Also, if I have a bottle of DT's in the fridge, how long does it stay good?

The reason I ask is that I am in the Navy and tend to go on "trips" every now and then and it would be great if I could leave the wife a 6 month supply of food without her having to worry about brewing her own or going to the LFS to buy whatever they happen to have on hand.

Thanks!

-David Winther
Oak Harbor, WA

[SawCJack00]

Blue Lagoon, actually I have used the gel cap form of garlic extract, but using garlic cloves is much easier. You simply drop a couple into the blender, and trust me, the blender has no problem with them. The mixing is just as thorough as with the garlic extract.

[EricHugo]

In the freezer, darn near forever...on DT's - I would contact Dennis Tagrin and ask him...not my product, you know?

[got chow]

Interesting recipe... Just caught this thread. I might end up trying it. I'll have to make sure my roomate and I take a 2 week vacation afterwards though. I don't think I can handle the smell and I'm damn sure he can't!!!

BTW Eric, how does your kitchen smell??? ;)

[EricHugo]

Badly when I make this food.

Wonderful otherwise. I like to cook ;)

[sh8g8delik]

I was wondering eric, because this recipe sounds sooo complicated but clearly articulated, i was wondering for like the people who dont have time or the resources to make this scrumptious feast for the corals and inverterbrates, if you were willing to make batch or so with the intentions of selling it. I'm sure there are many of us out there very intrigued by your recipe and would be willing to pay for it if you were to sell it, i would pay any price for it because im a full time college student and dont really have the time or the store to nearby to buy all these sophisticated ingredients to make such a treat.:D Just thought i try :D

[EricHugo]

LOL - well, no one has ever asked me that before.

I don't think it would travel very well, nor could we probably afford frozen transport.

Also, I have neither time, desire, nor inclination to sell or market any aquarium products (except me words).

Besides, I'd be breaking a promise to someone I made a long time ago.

He told, if you want te keep your credibility, you can't sell things. He owned a store, and knew firsthand how knowledge, even if real and honest like his, becomes skewed or perceived to be skewed the minute you add money into the equation.

He was right. I think we can all name others who fit that bill, too.

I have never forgotten that and I never will.

But thanks for asking!

[sh8g8delik]

Never really thought about that, very thoughtful words. Thank you for replying though, i kinda figured itd be too much trouble, but your words are already valuble so that if you were ever able to sell your knowledge you be a millionaire. :D Just thought id show appreciation and acknowledge your helpful nature.

[ToiletTank13]

Eric,

I asked this in a pm but for the benefit of others here I'll post it again:

In using all the fresh clams, mussels, oysters etc., do you at all feel you are adding a substantial amount of metals into the tank?

I read somewhere out there about the high levels of certain metals in the clams, oysters & mussels you use in your recipe and was wondering if any testing was ever done on any of the molluscs included in the recipe?

I'll find the research on the topic of metals in these kinds of animals and post it if you feel it's at all relevant.

Thanks bud.

[Nitro Joe]

:confused: I am new to the salt world. I am having a great deal of fun, but I am truly green. If you wouldn't mind answering a couple, hopefully simple questions for me please Eric.

My tanks are new, but cycling nicely. There is, in both tanks, some fairly significant cyano growth (...I'm not talking small patches, but covering whole rocks, and slowly the entire surface of the gravel) and I was wondering about the phosphates in the frozen brine and Nutramin dry pellets I'm using now perhaps encouraging growth of such nuisances. A nice fellow referred me to your recipe here in this string http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=95042#post95042. Is this recipe low in phosphates? Does anything besides cyanobacteria thrive on/ or need phosphates? Am I sweating "the small stuff" here?

A few specific questions I have are:
#1. What are DT's?
#2. What is the "roe" of something? ...entrails?
#3. What are Echinacea capsules?
#4. Is Super Selco a name brand of vitamin supplement?
#5. Who makes Golden Pearls?

Certainly I am interested in feeding all my lovely little creatures a well-balanced diet, so your recipe is intriguing and I think I will give it a go. Thanks in advance.

Joe. :bum:

[ToiletTank13]

I'm definitely not the expert Eric is Joe,

But:

1. DT's are a brand of live phytoplankton used as food for certain corals, zooplankton and the small critters in a deep sand bed.

2. I believe "roe" is the eggs from a particular animal, such as fish "roe" is the eggs or entire egg sac from the female.

3. Echinacea is a commonly used herb by humans to increase bodily resistance to infection, or for "boils".

4. Super Selco is SUPER Self Emulisified Liquid Concentrate, the original being developed by Artemia Systems. It's commonly used as an enrichment for Artemia or rotifers. Most here use it in conjunction with coral feedings or an additive to their recipes.

5. Golden Pearls is manufactured by Tesgofarm Aqua.

For professional advice, Eric is the man!

Good luck.

[michaelg]

1. DTs is phytoplankton. bottom of the food chain.
2. Roe is an oriental? term referring to fish eggs. These vary in size depending on the fish they come from. Used in sushi.
3. Enichea is a terrestrial plant, the capsules you can find in a drug or health food store in the suppliments.
4. Super selco is super concentrated selcon. It is a vitamin/fatty acid suppliment in the aquarium trade.
5. Golden pearls are made by Brine Shrimp Direct.

[EricHugo]

See above for answers:

As to the bioaccumulation aspect, yes, I have though of that and given it some thought, but I have no data to support it one way or the other. All in all, my rationale is that its a human food source and some measure of testing has to go on to ensure that various beds are currently safe and probably not from polluted areas or that they are farm raised.

[EdKruzel]

Hello Eric (& All),
Interesting thread. I have been using a similar (not quite so complex) mixture for some time.

I find in feeding such a variety I can easily feed a greater amount being it caters to a greater diversity of life.

As to the garlic extract; I have used garlic in the past without observing any adverse effects, however I read some recent studies that it may have some negative attributes in the marine world.

I stopped using it long before this study simply because it had no bearing in my system.
In a low to stress free environment with a healthy variety of foods; fish have more than an ample immune system in defending against common parasites.

I have yet to witness a mature tank break out in a parasitic infection without a noticeable cause (poor diet, sudden stress from equipment failure, poor containment bioload...).
Fix the cause of the stress, and ensure a proper diet and parasites vanish.

I'll add a few of Eric's ingredients to my own in my next batch.

Take Care,
Ed

[Nitro Joe]

Michael and ToiletTank,

Thanks for answering my specific questions. Where are these DT's purchased? I live in a ho-dunk town with sparse aquarium resources, so I often need to buy online.


Eric,

How about the phosphates in the aquarium system? Has that question been answered?

[ToiletTank13]

I buy DT's locally for 17.99 a 15oz bottle. Most of the larger web vendors sell DT's, it's the shipping that kills ya! They have to be kept cold AND shipped ASAP. So you're better off stocking up on whatever you need in the way of livestock or coral and have it shipped with the load so the shipping is spread out more and the only real cost of the DT's is keeping them cold.

Good luck, we all need it!

[ToiletTank13]

BTW, I'm gonna find that info on metals & molluscs and post a small bit on the numbers when I can.

If you have the time to let us know of your opinion on the levels found in the samples, I know I'd appreciate the insight.

[Caribbean Soul]

I didn't find much info on daphnia in the forum. Brine Shrimp Direct is having a free shipping special on 2# of frozen. Would this be a good food source? Alternative to brine shrimp?

Thanks

[michaelg]

It's kind of big for corals imo, though am sure it would fit fine for some. There is a jarred product called "sweetwater zooplankton" that I have used in the past, and the fish seem to like it. It is sold in a fresh water and salt water variety, though I have no idea what the difference is...... Definately larger than baby brine shrimp, maybe about the same as adult brine??

[2socrates]

<b>
These are non-issues. All the big issues, at least in my mind, have very little thought paid to them, and relatively poor solutions available. </b>

Eric,

This should probably be in anther thread, but, I was wondering what you thought the big issues are.

[revjlw]

Where does everybody buy the non-grocery items? I do not have access to an LFS without a substaintial drive. Do you all mail order some of the stuff? Recommendations about where to do so? Also, what are reasonable prices on the various things? Is the tahitian blend the paste available through Brine Shrimp Direct and is that where you all get the Pearls and do you get all 7 sizes? Inquiring minds and all that....

[michaelg]

Outside of the "normal" grocery store, one of the best places is a good oriental market.

Here are a list of mail order places. I found all of them to be reasonably priced.
Selco can be found through most mail order places as can DTs phytoplankton. Shipping isn't bad on dry products, some liquids and definately frozen need to be shipped in a timely manner though. Jemco is on the east coast so they were able to ship standard UPS to my area and it came overnight (about $8 for a BIG order of stuff).

http://www.jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/FISH_FOODS_/Cyclop-eeze/cyclop-eeze.html -cyclopeeze and mysis shrimp among other things. Frozen and dried.
Jemco sells in large quantities only, but still not expensive for what you get.

http://www.florida-aqua-farms.com/ - great for culture supplies

http://aquaculturestore.com/swinverts.html - some unique items for live cultures

www.aquaticeco.com - all around good place with a decent variety of items

www.brineshrimpdirect.com - was supplier of golden pearls, also spirulina powder, brine shrimp eggs, etc. Not sure on their status though......

www.instantalgae.com - supplier of "tahitian blend" and other concentrated algae pastes.

I'm sure there are others I have forgotten. Many of these I found through discussions with fish breeders, as they have been doing the live culturing and feeding little mouths for a while now :)

[revjlw]

Eric,
1. Are the percentages based on volume or weight in this recipe?
2. Can you get Golden Pearls anywhere besides BrineShrimpDirect?
3. Are REALLY big Krill and silversides okay for the fish part if I still add mussels and the like?
4. Where do you find roe? I've looked all over the nearest big city. I can find caviar - NO WAY - and I've checked the Asian markets we have - Hmong, not Japanese.
5. I found DTs at the nearest LFS, but it is $12 for 3.5 oz - isn't that a lot?

Sugestions? Thanks

[michaelg]

aquatic eco did have golden pearls and some similar products listed in their printed catalog. Might try there.

The roe I pick up at a korean market, though all the other oriental markets around me have it as well (but we have a fairly large oriental population in this area). I find it over in a cooler in the fish department. Orange round eggs in a plastic deli container. It is fresh, not preserved.

If I had to buy DT's, it wouldn't go into my food mix. I use nanochloropsis that I culture, so cost is minimal (about $0.50/liter ?) You might check some mail order places for DT's and compare prices. Keep in mind that the stuff is pretty sensative to heat, and doesn't keep long. By 6 months or so, it is shot (from a study Rob Toonen did a couple years back).

I would think Krill would be a great substitute for shrimp. Silversides for the fish portion......

One thing to keep in mind- one of the benefits of making your own mix (aside from knowing what is going in your tank and custom tailoring it) is the cost savings. If you have plenty of the krill and silversides and need to use it up, then by all means do. Otherwise, just get stuff at the store. I have estimated cost of making food to be about $12 for a full blender. That is a whole lot of food. I give away 5 baggies and keep 3, but my system is on the small side. I usually make it quarterly and take some of it my local clubs meetings to share.

No 2 batches ever come out exactly the same, but it is nothing to fret over.

[wasabi]

thanks, for the recipe update. ive been using it along with a variety of frozen for 18 months. i feed on average half a 16 oz cup a day along with 2 sheets of nori. i will skip a day or two on the food every week or two. the more food i add the more dramatic increase in sandbed life,also the more halimeda that is harvested. funny thing about fish they never get full.

[yrachmael]

Just to join the discussion late.

I tried the first batch. Gawd does it stink! I also blew the motors on two el cheapo food processors. Finally went and got a iron hand run meat grinder from my restaurant supply guy. Relatively cheap and given the little amount of use needed it works great and can be dedicated to this.

I added some dry kelp from the local Korean grocery and made the mistake of getting it wet before I put it into the grinder--it becomes very stringy and strong.

Otherwise this stuff is like serving Pizza to high school kids--stand back and watch everyone go crazy.

Thanks for the formula.

[Aaron]

Feed corals Ahi Tuna?

I got a great deal on some flash frozen Ahi Tuna. It says that all that is in there is Ahi & tasteless smoke to preserve color. Do you think this is reef safe?

[PoggiPJ]

Does feeding defrosted Krill offer any benefit over defrosted shrimp that we find in the supermarket? I can purchase smaller fresh or defrosted shrimp for less than frozen Krill from the pet store. Is there any nutritional reason that would justify paying more for the Krill?

[michaelg]

Sorry for responding to this so late. I would not use tuna- too fatty. The stuff you mention should definately NOT be used. You want to use only fresh or frozen fish- nothing with any sort of flavoring or preservatives. You want a lean fish.
Personally, I use whole shrimp for the most part. I haven't found much difference with krill.

[nancysnuwave]

Originally posted by EdKruzel
__________________
When I die, cremate me and dump my ashes in my “Deep Sand Bed”.
Hobby Experience: 20+yrs/Reef/Fish/Species
Ed

Just in case you were serious...if I'm not mistaken, bone meal is a pretty good phosphorus fertilizer.... [I'm not sure you want to leave a legacy of diatoms and hair algae? ]

:>

chris

[floppyfish]

After I blend, then freeze my food I notice their seems to be bigger pieces than when it was just bended. After a fresh lending I poured some into my tank, nice and fine, real small particulate. Now after freezing it, it seems clumpier, not huge chunks but definately not as liquidy as before.

Is this a probem?

[kelhuffman]

hey floppyfish, I had the same issue. Over time the particles just don't break up to the fine size they were initially blended. Obviously they're adhering to each other so the invert food became fish food over the months. Probably need some kind of solution that keeps the particles more in suspension. I'm sure there's something that professional food manufacturers make. But regardless, it made me stop using Eric's stuff as much as it was healthy for the tank and now I just use Golden Pearls and crushed vibra gro.

[BecomesOcean]

I have a six gallon nano with a healthy amount of LPS, including tubastrea, bubble and pearl corals. I just got 33¢ worth of octopus and scallops from the grocery store, which should last for a month in my tank. I reread this thread and haven't seen any mention of octo or scallops. Are they safe/benificial for corals and fish?

[rockyd]

They're not mentioned, but I don't see any reason why they would'nt work fine. I have used scallops in my mix before, and nothing changed in my system, so.......

[EdKruzel]

Many hobbyists refrain from octopus because of the heavy oils.

Even excess oils from your skin can affect the efficiency of a protein skimmer.

Personally I don't use a skimmer so I feed everything I can find that comes from the sea.

Take Care,
Ed

[EricHugo]

This thread has remained so active and I apologize for not having gotten back here. Michael seems to have answered all the questions extremely much as I would have, and if there was anything I would have answered differently since my last post, I'd say it here...but there isn't.

As for the variation in size, that's up to you. If you leave it chunky, then you have lots of particles that are good for corals, and lots that are good for fish, too. Really fine pretty much makes it coral and invery food.

As Michael said, variation is normal - and good. A varied diet is generally a good thing. As an example, I did not have chow made up prior to my leaving for Bali, but had a bunch of Mysis and Brine which I figured would be fine for the month. My old scarred scopas tang started showing signs of his old HLLE for the first time since 1994 when I bought him near death in a store.

As for octopus and scallops, that pretty much a whole bunch of muscle tissue. Moderately good for fish, but probably not the best choice for corals. Its hard to get muscle fiber like that small enough for many small polyped mouths...scallops are possible. The point is to get a variety of nutrients into these animals, and in the form of high quality whole foods that they would be exposed to in nature (or a good facsimile thereof).

As Michael also said, you may shocked at a forty dollar or more grocery and aquarium food invoice until you make enough flats to be the equivalent of several hundred dollars of the cubes in the LFS freezer that, when thawed, is mostly water anyway. The cost savings alone is reason enough to do this.

[JonL]

I HOPE TOILET TANK 13 WILL READ THIS...

Toilet tank 13 where did you find that pick of a toilet with money above it about to be flushed?

Eric in your book on the coral recipe page you write that you use 30ml (2tbls) super selco. Is that a typo
Is selcon good to use alternativly I don't want to order online.

Oh and eric is it really true you don't use a skimmer.
my ETS 500 still aight broke in and for all that money it don't give foam like I'd like it to.

Oh yeah eric in your book you write that you once had a system that used five gallons of lime water plus 20 ml's two part. You said that you used 1 table spoons Kalk per gallon?
My ESV says to use 2 spoons per gallon.
It's not really that inportant but what's gonning on

[JonL]

I HOPE TOILET TANK 13 WILL READ THIS...

Toilet tank 13 where did you find that pick of a toilet with money above it about to be flushed?

Eric in your book on the coral recipe page you write that you use 30ml (2tbls) super selco. Is that a typo
Is selcon good to use alternativly I don't want to order online.

Oh and eric is it really true you don't use a skimmer.
my ETS 500 still aight broke in and for all that money it don't give foam like I'd like it to.

Oh yeah eric in your book you write that you once had a system that used five gallons of lime water plus 20 ml's two part. You said that you used 1 table spoons Kalk per gallon?
My ESV says to use 2 spoons per gallon.
It's not really that inportant but what's goning on

[JonL]

Will hamers and frog spawns eat this stuff

[michaelg]

Hi- sorry I didn't see this earlier. Most recent question-Yes they will. One of the things I tend to do is grind in stages, don't dump it all in at one shot and puree completely. Gives a much broader distribution of food sizes that way. Personally, I add selcon when thawing in a plastic cup. Couple drops each time. The kalk can be used either way 1-2 tbs. Usually 1 will get you to the point of saturation which is what you are looking for. Read through Randy's articles /forum on this and track down C. Bingman's Aquarium Frontiers series (available online) for the real lowdown on kalk. For further saturation, look into spiking the solution through the use of vinegar.

On your skimmer- I'd suggest keeping it running. Look into that model with a search, and you will likely find the optimal pump to run it with or other easy ways (and not so easy ways) of boosting the performance.

[WmTasker]

Eric, thanks for the recipe. :bounce1: :bounce2: :bounce3:

I only have a 75 gallon aquarium with assorted soft corals and 2 sps's. If i was to make your recipe, I would probably have enough food to supply my aquariums for years. I was wondering if there was just a really good over the LPS counter food for your reef?

I have alot of zoo's, xenia, capnella, grn sinularia, assorted polyps, assorted sarcophyton, mushrooms, few gorg's & a few others.

Thanks
Billy :fish1:

[EricHugo]

John:

yes, those corals will eat this food - at least parts of it, depending on the feeding response and the particle size.

On Selco, no its not a typo. Selco is the concentrate. Selcon is the highly watered down aquarium version. Selco pours like a thick milkshake. Selcon, by comparison, appears to have about 1/4 teaspoon of Selco in it mixed with water to make up the small bottle.

On the old tanks, see Michael's response. Yes, that was my regimen back then - many years ago already. As for skimmers, I have no skimmers on my bedroom tank, my lab tanks (including the stony coral tanks) and had not had a skimmer on any tank for many many years. Following a huge wipeout back in 1999 while I was in Australia, I decided to add a skimmer to my main tank for the times when I was out of town (which, as you guys know, is a lot). Problem is, i always forgot to turn it on when I walked out the door, so it was still unskimmed.

Then, after one of my Indonesia trips in 2001, I turned it on, and didn't get around to turning it off again for several months because I was going to be changing the tank soon as I set up the systems at my lab...figured I'd just keep it going. I made the change and, of course, ran the skimmer during the changes and then, after rethinking things in terms of oxygen at night (basically that i wanted lower flow at night but without compromising O2 from biomass), I ran it at night for about a year.

Then, I've also become more concerned about plant and animal chemistry in small volumes, so I have really upped carbon use in the past three years and for the past year, I have begun skimming the one system all the time. I have compensated by adding even more food to the tank than I already was, and feel that the health of the tank is still equal to what it was without skimming. I have far less filter feeders on the rocks than when I didn't skim, but still have a lot and good sponge growth. All in all, I guess my prlonged absences away from the tank, both at lab and in travels, has swayed me to this regimen for my main system. The other tanks are too simple to worry about skimming at all - only thing that hurts them is when someone forgets to add water for many days at lab and the salinity spikes.

My wife is a great tank keeper in my absence and is very observant of things. I have no doubt that the skimmer is simply my paranoia based on past nightmares. But, for now that's how I am doing things. I'm sure it will change again as my lifestyle changes - one way or the other.

I don't use ESV anymore...I think 1997 was probably the last time I ordered ESV - liked the product fine, but I had trace element concerns and no longer saw the need to pay the money for basic chemicals that could be had for a fraaction of the price. In fact, that was about the time I almost entirely stopped supporting the dry goods section of any fish stores with the exception of a very few things.

WM tasker...you lost me...what are you asking? over the counter LPS recipe?

[WmTasker]

Sorry ... I was just wondering if there was a genreal food that I can buy that is good to feed my corals.

[EricHugo]

Inosofar as I am aware, thee is no one stop, all purpose food for all corals...they are all too individual in what they require. I'd say of all the foods out there, though, the smallest size Golden pearls is likely to be the most appropriate for the most number of corals, although alone they do not elicit a very strong feeding response. Baby brine shrimp are also exellent, although Randy aricle on aluminum contnetn of brine shrimp has now given me some pause in my heavy long-term use of Artemia as part of a staple diet for fish and corals.

[MGT]

Eric,

I apologize if this was already answered somewhere but I could not find it. I am in the middle of compiling the ingredients for a batch of this food. Are each of the ingredients within each category (like within "dried aq. foods") used in equal parts/qtys? Or do you just use what you have?

Also do you have a source for the super selco vs. the selcon?

Thanks,

Marc

[EricHugo]

Oh, I sort of judge depending on what's in the tank...lots of small mouths, less chunky food...

Super Selco - google has a ton of places...mine came from Florida Aquar Farms...so concentrted, been on the same bottle for four years!!

[michaelg]

On that note of how long this stuff lasts- people should keep it in the refridgerator. I also keep my tank vitamins in there as well.

[revjlw]

Where should I keep this stuff? How important is Cyclop-Eze?

[JonL]

Dear Eric
In your book you right "I have, however found that certain brands of high-quality dry marine food, available in tiny pellets, are especially suited to liquid vitamin absorptionbefore being fed to corals, and are also an appropriate size for many corals to capture. Proline and reduced glutathione (GSH) are both compounds that can be added to the water elicit a feeding response in many corals."
Are you still on the regiem?
Where can I find the product's?
More importantly can you give any info on what pellets work best, also what vitamins you use.
thanks
Johnny

[EricHugo]

rev: in the freezer. Cyclop=eeze is new for me, too, but I like it lot.

Jon - no, that's an option. I just use the one food now, sans big algae for corals. For the dry foods, the cyclopeeze, Golden Pearls and Vibragro are my favorites. I'm not using vitamin supllements now...I think the food is high enough quality now...it wasn't it the mid 90's when I wrote that.

[kelhuffman]

I have to say this about Cyclopeeze. I bought the frozen stuff and have been using it daily or twice a day for a month. I've read claims about foods making fish colors more vibrant and have tried ALL of those foods and never seen colors get better. Well, I'll be... my bartlett's anthias have colored up like acros after fading out over the past 9 months.

[JonL]

sans big algae for corals ???
what???
Is your recipe good for feeding a doughnut coral?? I've tried alot and mine won't take to anything?? I managed to get some in the opening last night but I clumsly hit a mattle hard and the thing spit out the pieces. dooh
Im sorry for writing things I read in your book on here somtimes I just don't think
Is the Vibragro that comes in a jar good too.
And finally, should I keep Caulerpa It's the only thing that's usally avialble around here,will it remove any heavy metals, any info would be appriated. thanks Johnny

[NancyK]

Hi Eric just wondering if you fish recipe is posted in another area and what is different about it and how much do you feed to the tank at night and how often. Thank you so much it really helps when your still trying to learn.

Nancy

[michaelg]

If it is for fish in a reef, just leave out some of the big stuff along the way and hand chop to pieces appropriate for the fish (shrimp, fish, etc.). The nori should stay in an appropiate size, else just soak in saltwater and break up by hand. Super blend the first portion for the corals, then hand stir in the chunks, and there you have a mixed feed.

[JonL]

I've tried feeding pieces of your recipe formula that was freezer biten and rather squishy to my fungid coral it closed up for the day is that a negiative response or is it just full??

[mredman]

Eric,

I use the recipe most similar to the one you discussed in your coral book. I avoid the "voodoo" ingredients like nutraceuticals and commercial phytoplankton products. I believe the shrimp has enough carotenoids to satisfy the corals without adding additional pigments.

My fish and corals are healthy - many thanks for your formula!

Mike Redman
Houston

[cecilturtle]

Eric,

In your recipe you mention phytoplankton and DT's and later in the thread you speak of running a skimmer but feeding more often...do you turn this tank's skimmer off when feeding and if so, for how long? I have had mixed results from several hours to a day but was wondering what is optimal.

Also, in regards to Cyclop-eze, what I am finding at my LFS looks similar to a frozen popsicle. If this is ok, would it still consititute a portion of the dried or frozen category?

[DouglasTiede]

very helpful page, thank you!

[michaelg]

I see eric never answered the above so I will give it a shot. I never bother turning my skimmer off to tell you the truth- doubt eric does either (due to location). I grow my own phytoplankton so losing some to the skimmer really isn't of a concern and I feed a lot of it daily.
WRT cyclopeeze- I would add it as an extra. If you have the popsicle stuff locally it should be frozen. They do have dried stuff as well, but I have never used it. Our club did a group buy on cyclopeeze and mysis shrimp (shipping here was cheap as we aren't too far away). I would add it as an extra- though actually leave it seperate and mix it in when thawing. Just easier that way, as I know how my of the stuff I want to add each time.

[mredman]

I was able to buy some frozen cyclop-eeze locally. I use it in addition to a modified "Borneman" formula. The scolymia almost invert themselves with their tentacles when I spot feed with a turkey baster, the yellow finger gorgonian has full polyp extension and the acroporas fully extend polyps as well. I also give a shot to my four large feather dusters. Finally, I use the formula/cyclop-eeze to feed my hungry carnation dendronepthya. This coral is now more than 6 months old in my tank and has produced more than 10 offspring, some which are now more than one inch high. Other factors that may be helping the carnation coral is that it is located in a partly shaded area about 50 inches below the lighting (I have a deep tank). I also maintain the tank at 76 degrees, which may be a factor.

Mike

[cecilturtle]

Thanks guys....:)

[elefink]

What are those vitamin suppliments in the recipe?

[fjdevelopment]

Is pollack a good fish for this recipe?

[PoggiPJ]

Originally posted by mredman
the carnation coral is located about 50 inches below the lighting

Ok Mike,
That caught my attention. I have a hard time feeding and my tank is only 30" deep. How the heck are you target feeding that deep? Have you crafted some sort of feeding tube?

[eyedoc]

I just started using Prime Reef to feed fish.
It has a long list of ingredients.
Would this be good for feeding corals?
It sure would be easier, although much more expensive.
Here are the ingredients:

Ingredients: Marine shrimp, marine clams, squid, zoo-plankton's (E. pacific and E. superba), spinach, seaweed, fish oil, mussel, lobster, fish roe, scallop, vitamins (choline chloride, ascorbic acid including stabilized vitamin C, vitamin E supplement, niacin, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, menadione sodium bisulfate complex, vitamin A acetate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, beta-carotene supplement, biotin), amino acids (dl-methionine, taurine, lysine), and trace elements (manganese sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, sodium selenite).

[EricHugo]

If you liquify it, it should be fine. Prime Reef is a big gel-chunked cube and unless you make it into much smaller pieces, it will be of relatively low use for all but corals with quite large mouths.

[StephenA]

stupid ?, do you peel the shrimp before grinding them up?

[eyedoc]

The prime reef cube dissolves in water to different sized particles ranging from dust to 1-2 mm in size.

[EricHugo]

Stephen - yes, I do.

Eyedoc - One of the reasons I make up the food is because I'm not assured of the quality of the frozen foods, and they are very expensive for what they are.

[Macroman]

Fresh seafood:

oysters - blend well and may have Vibriostatic properties


What are Vibriostatic properties and how do they relate to the marine aquarium?

Websters only fueled the fire.:confused:

[EdKruzel]

It's a virus believed to cause bleaching in many coral species, so says the rumor :mixed:

Eric,
Happy New Year my friend. This thread has gotten so long I can't remember if you comment on an expiration for the food you make.

Being I only have the 37cube running at this time, my last batch was quite large and is over 6mths old right now.
It's been frozen the entire time (take what I need and return to the freezer) however I'm thinking about throwing it out and making a smaller fresh batch.

What are your thoughts?

Take care,
Ed

[EricHugo]

Hapy new year to you, too, stranger! I'd say its probably fine - how much freezer burn is there?

[EdKruzel]

Eric,
I'm trying not to be a stranger, but with the change over to Homeland Security and my classes I can hardly find time to breathe.
There is very little freezer burn, its just on one edge where I cut it with a wet kitchen knife.
I had been cutting from another area since.

Hope to see you in Chicago.

Take care,
Ed

[eyedoc]

How exactly do you feed this home made food mix?
Do you just pour it in the tank and let the water flow distribute it all around?
How much do you feed?

[EricHugo]

There's no formula really...it is fed according to the tank. Bascially, the way I explain it to people, eyedoc, is that our tanks are capable of receiving a lt of food. Most people that start feeding a lot quit about a week later because they start to see algae or cyano or nitrates.

It takes a while for tanks to catch up to new input levels. I'd start with a tablespoon, maybe at night, every other night. Wait a month at that level. Then, double it - do it every night....wait a month. Double it, etc. Eventually you'll reach a point where the tank actually does start to accumulate nutrients....back off to the previous level. As corals and other filter feeders grow, though, you'll have that many more mouths to feed. If you see algae, either get more grazers or wait a while until all the populations ctach up (that's why the month wait between increases) and don't panic a week or two into the new routine. Its a cycle, and it takes time.

[eyedoc]

Do you just put the tablespoon in and let the current mix it around?
Do you target feed it?
Thanks

[michaelg]

just dump it in. Remember- you should freeze the initial batch- then chop off what you need with a knife and thaw it in a small amount of tank water. I put it into the current to get good dispersal through out the water column.

[eyedoc]

I just tried target feeding.
What a pain!
It sure would be much easier to just throw it in.

Do you ever try to target feed?
Theoretically this should put less bioload in the tank.

[EdKruzel]

In general just putting it in the current is the way to go (IMO) however if you keep certain species that do not rely on or have the ability of photosynthesis, then target feeding will ensure survivability.

If a hobbyists sets their current properly throughout the system then food particles should reach everything.

Take care,
Ed

[pogie]

I have a filter sock on the PVC going into the sump to trap debris. Will this trap most of the particles? Should I turn of my return pump for awhile after feeding? I have been target feeding but it is becoming onerous and would like to use the dump and go method but am worried all the food will end up in the filter sock.

[EricHugo]

I think a great deal of it will end up in the filter sock. Ad, a lot of the stuff you are collecting in the filter sock is perfectly good food, too - detritus. BTW, 2 points for you. Onerous is a good one.

[eyedoc]

What do you think about adding the food mixture to the sump so the pump will distribute it to the tank with the rest of the water?

[EricHugo]

Hopefully there is enough circulation in any tank to distribute food rapidly in any event.

[jaden1]

Hi Eric,
CAn this food be helpful to Gorgonians. Currently trying to get a diodogorgia to feed. Have had lots of success feeding non predatory gorgonians, but this one is proving to be a bit more difficult. It won't extend its polyps and is slowly receeding. Currently trying to feed mix of cyclops eze mixed with brine and vibra grow. Any suggestion would be great. Thanks

[EricHugo]

Both those are too large for Diodogorgia. There are componennts in my mix that would likely feed Diodogorgia, but it is unlikely to provide enough to sustain this coral. You ca search the forum for more infomration on this species, and a few reports of others of claimed success.

[jaden1]

Thank you and I will search for that info. And thank you for replying so soon. The garf website suggested this method which seems a little odd to me. What's your view.
1. soak flake food in seachem reef builder for 1-2 hrs.
2.puree in blender.
3 Allow particles to fall from suspension and use these to feed diodogorgia.

Seems to me they would likely burn the polyps they intend to feed.
Am reserving this as the finla step. Can't hold out much longer though it is starting to wane a bit.
Thanks for your help and your articles over the years. Truly a fan of many years.

[EricHugo]

I think the flake food soaked in Selcon and put in a blender is a much better idea.

[GARFVolunteer]

Originally posted by jaden1
1. soak flake food in seachem reef builder for 1-2 hrs.
2.puree in blender.
3 Allow particles to fall from suspension and use these to feed diodogorgia.



jaden1,

The GARF website says to soak the flake food in SeaChem Reef Plus not Reef Builder... :)

[nancysnuwave]

Originally posted by EricHugo
I think the flake food soaked in Selcon and put in a blender is a much better idea.

Any ideas on the similarities of ReefPlus (or whatever) and Selcon?

[EricHugo]

none...what's in ReefPlus? I thought it was a trace element product.

[michaelg]

from some web site....
Seems like it is both a trace suppliment and a vitamin suppliment. Personally I would stick with selcon of a mix of selcon with vitachem.

_Reef Plusâ„¢ is a full spectrum supplement of trace components such as iodide, bromide, molybdenum, iron, manganese, cobalt, potassium, inositol, choline; important vitamins such as C and B12; and beneficial amino acids, such as cysteine, proline, glycine, alanine, and lysine. It may be used as a food supplement. It complements Reef Completeâ„¢ and Reef Calciumâ„¢. It is a concentrated product: each 500 mL treats 8,000 L (2,000 gallons). This is perfect for keeping all types of corals._ It is highly recommended for keeping soft corals like Xenia.

[Harpo]

I was looking through the new AES catalogue that came today and found they have really excellent plankton nets available.

Since I fish frequently off the northern calif. coast it got me thinking--

1) would northern pacific plankton make a good food source for our tropical corals?

2) If so would it still be nutritious if frozen (dead)?

3) If yes to the above what micron size netting would be appropriate for the best sized plankton for our purposes?

Thank you, Mark

[EricHugo]

1. yes
2. yes
3. I'd use the 5-100 micron fraction

[jaden1]

Thank you all. Yes reef plus sounds better. Thank you GARF volunteer.

[flaunt]

I'm trying to make this coral food right now, and I was wondering... Do you do anything to the shrimp before pureeing them other than cutting off the heads and squeezing them to "use the meat?" I'm not sure how well all the other parts like the shell, tail, legs, etc. will blend, that's why I'm asking.

BTW- shucking oysters isn't easy!

Thanks for the recipe, Eric.

[Obi-dad]

Shucking oysters is much easier with an oyster knife. I tried every knife in the kitchen, then borrowed my aunt's oyster knife - MUCH easier.

[EdKruzel]

Whenever I make up my food using shrimp or other tough articles (tails and so forth) I chop them separately in the food processor.

I often add DT's Phytoplankton to the somewhat "dry" articles for moisture, just to keep them from sticking to the processor sides.


Ed

[flaunt]

Well I just removed the exoskeletons before putting them in the blender. Maybe next time I'll try putting them in a food processor instead.

Wow, I just added a shot of this stuff to my tank and it *really* became cloudy fast! I guess you have to go easy on this stuff.

[EdKruzel]

Start slow on the amount and build on a weekly basis or else you'll get an algae bloom.

It takes awhile for the tank to adjust.

I believe I fed too much and grew a tremendous amount of sponge.
Sponge is great as long as you never need to remove any rock.

Ed

[bronzermike54]

Sponge grows as a result of too much feeding??? I have a bunch of yellow sponge growing in various places, I thought that was a good thing??

[EdKruzel]

As I said it's a great thing provided you never have to disassemble the tank.

Sponge (most types) fouls when exposed to air.
Therefore you have to clean the rock and almost have to go through the curing process over again.

Granted it probably won't be near as drastic as the first process, however it all depends on how intricate the rock crevices and the amount of sponge within.

Ed

[gwrulzmylife]

th

[wazbot]

Hi Eric,

Just wanted to say i made up a little batch (3litres) of your recipe, much to the distaste of my partner's relatives who 'popped in' as was preparing the seafood.

The look on their faces was worth the world as I blended a feast of gourmet seafood, scallops, oysters, live cockles, New Zealand white bait, banana prawns etc, into a slimey gooey stinking mass, and proceeded to pour it into little ice cube trays. :eek1:

The in-laws always thought I was a 'little' around the bend...

But now they have concrete evidence! :D

At least my fish and corals are still talking to me... :rollface:

[MarineMark]

Hmmm i've been reading through this thread and its really informative, and i'm starting to think i should make some of this up as well.
The corals i have are:
Red Brain Open
Candy Cane
Green Star Polyp
Clove Polyp
Yellow Polyp
Cabbage Cora
Lots of Xenia
Hammer Coral
Leather ( Both finger and toadstool )
Sun Polyps ( Tubastrea )
Montipora Digitata
Pipe Organ

Would a feed like this help any or all of my corals ?

[michaelg]

YES- the majority of them to be honest. Broadcast feeding will take care of most. Tubastrea should be target fed, and the brain (wesophyllia?) will likely prefer larger chunks after dark when the feeder tentacles are out. Xenia probably won't benefit directly- but might in an indirect way.

[MarineMark]

I feed the sun polyps a couple times a week with brine shrimp and its doubled in size in about 6 month the brain i feed when i feed my anemones with small chunks of scallop and it seems to love them.

I'll try a similar recipe, as i don't have access to alot ot the stuff on the list i'll mix and match i think

Also can we see some pics of erics tank on the site anywhere ? I'd love to see it!

[michaelg]

There is absolutely nothing written in stone with that recipe. Mix and grind what you can find. IMO, varitey is the key.

[MarineMark]

If there were any parts that you could not do without what would they be?

[michaelg]

To be honest- NO. Shellfish, scallops, shrimp, and some type of fresh fish are the basics. Seaweed is a bit optional dependant on the type of fish you have. I have always used what I could find on any given day at the local market, and don't sweat it if they are out of something. A good freezer section is worth checking as well. You just want stuff that is "unprepared/cooked". Also- keep in mind, the cost of the food should not be expensive for the amount being prepared.
There are numerous places you can pick up small particle stuff to add into the mix.

[eyedoc]

How about broadcast feeding with frozen cubes of Prime Reef and Mysis shrimp?
It is not that expensive and does have some variety.

[MarineMark]

I think i might throw a mix together today using scallops and shrimp as a base maybe some smelt as my fish part of it

[StephenA]

Originally posted by eyedoc
How about broadcast feeding with frozen cubes of Prime Reef and Mysis shrimp?
It is not that expensive and does have some variety.

Those have a lot of water in them. I mixed up a variation of Eric's food about 6 months ago and still have 3 sandwich bags left! It cost me about $12 for 5 Bags of food. The same at the lfs would have been around $40.

[MarineMark]

No reply to the tank question yet, i'd love to see some pics of erics tank if anyone knows where they can link to them ?

[EdKruzel]

michaelg,
Wellsophyllia is a former name no longer recognized.
Open brain corals found in the trade fall under (for the most part) the family Trachyphylliidae.
An example is the T. radiata.

Where are the good shops in the DC/Northern Va. vicinity?
I would like to browse the LFS's when in the Front Royal area.

MarineMark,
don't recall any of Eric's pics here, although I'm sure there must be an archive somewhere. Try using the search button at the top of the page.
I do believe he has a couple of pics in his book, "Aquarium Corals".

Take care,
Ed

[michaelg]

Thanks- Ed- I know that one of the names dropped, but for the life of me, still stay confused :) Good stores in the DC/baltimore area are
www.reefstore.com (northern VA)
www.exoticaquatics.com (B-more)
maybe
www.roozens.com (south east side of DC outside the beltway).

You can always pop over to www.wamas.org and let people know you are coming into the area if you want to see some tanks. We have some prop peeps in the area that I can send you their e-mail contacts as well if you are looking for frags...

Michael

[Obi-dad]

the exoticaquatic link says Ft Lauderdale, FL

[MarineMark]

Shows what a noob i am to this site, i didn't know he had a book

[michaelg]

OOPS- was missing the last "s" on the URL. It's fixed now.

[EdKruzel]

michaelg,
Thanks for the links. I will be in the Front Royal area for 15wks on business.

I'll give you a shout once I get settled. I'd love to check out some tanks and browse the stores.

Thanks again,
Ed

[dgphelps]

michaelg, a few pages back you mention that it costs about $12 for you to fill up a blender. I was trying to price out the stuff in the ingredients and this is what I came up with.

Shrimp, clams, mussels, oysters, etc at grocery, enough for about $9
enriched brine shrimp and mysid from LFS i pack each $9.50
Golden pearls two sizes about 5.5 ounces $11
Cyclopeeze 30 grams $11
Powdered marine flake, who doesn't have this lying around? $0
Tahitian blend 125 ml $14
Spirulina powder 6 gram $0.95
Nori 20 grams $1.95
Total $57.40 not including shipping should you have to have it shipped...

Are the amounts for the items I have above wrong or do you just put in different things? Also, this does not include any DTs...

I am trying to keep my per blender cost down to at least $30 without leaving out important food items that my tank may need. I have a 29 gallon with 4 clarkei clowns, 1 frogspawn, 1 galaxea, many gsp and zoanthids, some mushrooms, and xenia. Not to mention my pods, tube worms, and sandbed inhabitants.

Any ideas or suggestions for me on helpful items etc. Thanks alot for your help and know that I love that I am not the only one who wants to know how to make my own batch of smelly nasty stuff that I wouldn't drink in a lifetime.

-Daniel

[EricHugo]

I usually spend about $40 in ingredients per batch that last many months. The costs you list include some packages that you will use several times making several batches. Whatever the case, doing it this way is a whole lot cheaper than buying frozen flats at the fish store and is a much better food addition.

[Okireef]

tag

[flaunt]

Eric,
I hope this isn't too off topic for this thread or a silly question, but how do you determine what is the "correct" amount of this food to feed at a time? Normally I gauge it by how cloudy the water becomes with all those fine particles zooming around the tank... How do you do it?

Thanks.

[EdKruzel]

Okireef,
Please observe at the bottom of the page is a link to subscribe to a perticular thread.

This helps to save on server spce as well as people receiveing notice when there hasn't been any new information posted.

Flaunt,
I like to begin with slightly less than I was feeding initially with prepared foods.
With more nutrition and less waste you don't need as much.
It will also take some time for the corals and fauna to adjust to the feedings.
Beginning slow and building will also help to reduce the chance of an algae outbreak.

Ed

[EricHugo]

Depends on the tank - how it's set up, what's in it.

[Mariner]

I feed a blended mix of shrimp, mussells, spirulina flake, garlic extract, nori and vitamin supplement (Kent Zoe) to my fish in the evening just before lights out. I just ordered some golden pearls -- didn't read this thread before hand so I didn't order the smallest size that Eric recommended, but the next two sizes up. :rolleyes: If I added the GP's to the mix and fed in the evening would this likely be sufficient nutrition for the corals in my 75g mixed reef? Should I place another order for the smaller size GP's? I think Eric mentioned that he doesn't use everything in the recipe every time -- What else from Eric's recipe should I add for a good balanced coral food?

My corals are:
xenia (lots)
star polyps
several mushrooms
1 tubipora musica
1 fox/ridge (nemenzophyllia)
1 platygyra
1 anthelia
1 green acro
a few small montipora (digi & cap)
2 sinularia

thanks,
Mariner

[PoggiPJ]

Hi Eric,
I've been a follower of your recipe for some time now. I recently purchased a Knight Medical enteral feeding pump, and for the last several days Ive been dripping it in slowly, at about 125ml per hour. I've been dosing about 1 litre a day into my two tanks, which are plumbed together at roughly 300 gals. No cyano, which surprised me.
The other surprise, unless it's my imagination, is that my corals are expanding more and looking even healthier than before. Have you done this or heard of anyone else doing it? I'm curious about your thoughts on how much would be too much.

[EricHugo]

What else from Eric's recipe should I add for a good balanced coral food?

The recipe itself is the good balanced food. It's not necessary to add everything exactly as it is listed, but just as a complex cake recipe won;t be the same cake when you add subtract and substitute ingredients, neither will this. There is no "minimum" list that does the job just fine or I would have posted it like that in the first place.

My corals are:
xenia (lots) - won;t capture prey
star polyps won;t capture prey
several mushrooms
1 tubipora musica minimal prey capture
1 fox/ridge (nemenzophyllia) minimal prey capture
1 platygyra
1 anthelia won;t capture prey
1 green acro
a few small montipora (digi & cap)
2 sinularia


Pete: I bought two medical IV pumps to do this from an aquarist in Tampa - he swore they worked. They didn't. He won't respond to my emails. The company has been bought out, and no support for the pumps. Consequently, I wish I could compare notes with you.

But, every other time I have tried to do constant feeding, the results were stellar. Problem is, I never found anything that kept working for very long...hence why I bought the dosing pumps. sigh.

[MarineMark]

So xenia and star polyps won't benefit at all from the feedings, what corals benefit from this,
i currently have :

monti. digitata
red brain open
worm brain
candy cane
torch
hammer
several leather corals
kenya tree
pipe organ
red / green / blue mushrooms
anthelia
donut coral
green star polyp
cabbage coral

i want to get into SPS more in my main tank too

Would i benefit from preparing a mix like this ?

[nine9d]

Forgive me if this has been asked, is that frozen cyclop-eeze?

[Mariner]

Eric,
Thanks much for your response to my earlier post. What you said comparing the coral food recipe to a cake recipe made lots of sense, and I think I'll just try to get as close to the recipe as I can.
I was pretty well aware (thanks to reading after you) which of my corals would prey capture and which wouldn't. My thought in asking the original question and listing my corals was that perhaps the few corals that I do have that prey capture would need/use some of the recipe ingredients more that others. I.E., maybe acro would like golden pearls but wouldn't notice at all if I left out shrimp. In other words, I was looking for an abridged recipe that would feed the specific corals I have and leave off ingredients that my particular corals don't really need.
So much for that idea :rolleyes:
thanks for your help,
Mariner

[bastion666]

I made some of this "coral chow" up this weekend. I basically went with the following:

8 oz seafood (clams and mussels)
8 oz frozen (mysis shrimp and enriched brine)
16 oz by volume dried (GP's mostly, vibraglow, some marine flake)
2-3 Tbs Zoecon (no super selco available)
1 Tbs Tahitian Blend

This made up about 20 oz of a food, in a light paste texture. Using 1 quart zip top bags, I was able to make 5 packages, all very thin. What should the consistancy of the food be?

I took some of the fresh mix, about 1-2 tsp worth and added it to the tank. Wow, entire tank clouded and skimmer shutdown for about 6 hours. Okay, a tad bit too much on the first run. I'll start with maybe 1/2 tsp frozen and go from there.

Does this sound about right?

[kbd]

Originally posted by PoggiPJ
and for the last several days Ive been dripping it in slowly, at about 125ml per hour. I've been dosing about 1 litre a day into my two tanks, which are plumbed together at roughly 300 gals. No cyano, which surprised me.


Pete, Eric

Any concerns about decomposition ? After all, I guess that the food is thawed and warm for much of a day if you are using this method.

Pete, I guess you first dissolve a "cube" in tankwater ?

kim

[EricHugo]

I use the dry Clop-Eze, mostly, but prefer the frozen. A matter of availability, mostly.

Bastion - sounds about right, and yes maybe a little much if you wil use it regularly, but once in a while I like "fogging the tank"

Kim, I keep it frozen. In a big way. All frozen foods have a short life once they are in the fridge - esepcially if you use a feeding spoon or whatever that touches tank water and then hits the bag of food. Lots of bacteria!

[PoggiPJ]

Originally posted by kbd
Pete, Eric

Any concerns about decomposition ? After all, I guess that the food is thawed and warm for much of a day if you are using this method.

Pete, I guess you first dissolve a "cube" in tankwater ?

kim
Yes, sometimes dissolve the cube in tankwater, sometimes blend fresh - but since the feeding bag has a fairly wide opening i also slip in a few ice cubes to keep it cold. I've been experimenting with different dosing rates but usually at a rate that will empty the bag fairly quickly. Since I work from my home office and can hear the empty bag alarm , I don't have to hang a very large quantity at one time.

I also dose my phytoplankton this way, which is culturing at room temperature anyway.

[kbd]

Thanks folks,

I like the ice cube idea....should be good for a few hours around dusk. I know some people are dosing dead food all day while they are away from their tanks, without any attempt refridgeration, and I'm not sure it's a good thing.

kim

[PoggiPJ]

Kim,
Another idea I am considering is rather than hanging the bag on a hook, is to to place the bag in a small styro container with a standard freezer cold pack to maintain refrigeration. A small, thin slot cut through the side just under the cover would accomodate the tubing.

[kbd]

Cool,

Next thing will be a small fridge.....just enough space for a bag of yukky stuff and, what, say a couple of beers ?

:)

kim

[PoggiPJ]

Kim, I'm one step ahead of ya. Look where my 240 is located. Just to left you'll notice a barstool and footrail :-)

[kbd]

:)

kim

[juststartingout]

I thought I had a decent mix(clams,shrimp,squid,selcon), but this tops the cake! Thanks for the valuable info.

Don

[MarineMark]

I just started up a SPS tank, should i feed this to it, would this help ?

[wasabi]

i built my bar around my tank...less travel time

[bergzy]

yum!!!:p

just tagging...

[The Escaped Ape]

Eric and others,

I made up my first batch of this yesterday. Ingredients below.

Fresh seaweed (nori, wakame (Undaria pinnatifida), konbu (kelp),

Live razor clams, clams, shrimp, live sazae (type of of turbo snail eaten as sushi here believe it or not!),

Dried zooplankton, dried decapsulated artemia nauplii, a mix of freeze dried stuff (inc. mysis, brine shrip etc.) and a liquid vitamin supplement.

As I'm using fresh seaweed rather than dried (one of the benefits of living in Japan!), I seem to have quite large particles of seaweed in my mix (up to maybe 1mm across - sorry not sure what that is in inches). Is that likely to be a problem?

[The Escaped Ape]

One more thing. I was thinking of adding some frozen copepods/baby brine shrimp/mysis shrimps. A good idea for next time?

[michaelg]

Sure- great choices on the additional ingredients- I would not "blend in the copepods- just hand mix them in.. If you don't have herbivores in the tank, you might cut back on the algae. Size is about right after blending. Usually it is eaten by the fish when I feed it.

[The Escaped Ape]

Thanks Michaelg. Next time I may some up I'll cut back on the seaweed (or maybe get myself a herbivore...).

[dgphelps]

I live in California, can I use seaweed I find on the beach here? There are all types of it, kelp, flat green sheet type, brown encrusting on rocks...

[nterry]

Hi,

As long as we're discussing recipes, I remember reading that if you use frozen food, don't use food with presevatives. Well, our local grocery store carries a brand of frozen shrimp whose ingredients include shrimp and salt. I'm assuming that means NaCl--any problem with adding such shrimp to coral food. Will the sodium or clorine ions harm the corals?

Thanks.

nterry

[michaelg]

no, should be fine. I always try to buy it fresh though. The 40-50 ct shrimp aren't very expensive. I freeze back what I don't use for the batch and use it to feed the anenomes.

[szesteve]

Just a quick question to everyone here.

When u feed the coral food, do u turn off all the pumps or just let the pumps run?

Will there be a slight cloud effect for a while?

[EdKruzel]

Cloudiness is always an effect of adding particulate matter to water.
I turn off the pumps when target feeding, however many corals require force to catch prey.

Leave them off for a short period and then let 'em rip!!!

Ed

[wasabi]

i drop all my food into high flow areas. it works for me

[dweingar]

Eric - Do you supplement the feeding with any live food or just your frozen concoction?

[Cichlid2SW]

Curious if anyone adds fish that they personally caught to the 'recipe'?
I am fortunate enough to live in alaska and have an abundant supply of both salmon and halibut available.

[coderabit21]

I just finished reading this thread and the question I have is if the small particles such as GPs keeps their same particle characteristics or if they would adhere to each other and become larger taking away from their beneficial size for small coral mouths?

[Snarkys]

Golden Pearls comes in 7 sizes . you suggest using all sizes, can you give me a ruff figure of how much of each ?

my understanding this is a coral/fish food if you add a bit more mysis/brine/krill ? this true ?

[michaelg]

2 smallest sizes are all you really need.

[Snarkys]

do people use this to feed fish also or mainly just for corals ?

[michaelg]

Both, if you leave some decent sized chunks in it for the fish. I have seen many picky fish take to this stuff.

[tephanis]

does this recipe feed anen's too?

[tephanis]

I know this might be alot of trouble but if anyone can...

is it possible if someone could tell me which items are to be bought at a fish store in the recipe

Reason being... since I am a new reefer I have no idea what half those things are and have no idea where to get those things I don't recognize...

just wondering if anyone can help me out

thank you

[Snarkys]

where is a good place to buy Super Selco ? only place i found sells it in 1 kg bottles for $95.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/6078/cid/1684

[Snarkys]

ok i did find normal selco here but i dont see super selco.
http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/brine-shrimp-direct-selco.html

just want to make sure it is the right thing because it says you use "drops"

This Artemia or rotifer enrichment formula is rich in Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acids (HUFA's) and is super concentrated. Just 10 drops per liter or quart of water is sufficient for enriching thousands of Artemia nauplii and adults as well as rotifers.

while erichugo says it pours like a think milkshake.

Originally posted by EricHugo

On Selco, no its not a typo. Selco is the concentrate. Selcon is the highly watered down aquarium version. Selco pours like a thick milkshake. Selcon, by comparison, appears to have about 1/4 teaspoon of Selco in it mixed with water to make up the small bottle.


this stuff rather important to the recipe ?

[Snarkys]

Originally posted by ToiletTank13
Eric,

I asked this in a pm but for the benefit of others here I'll post it again:

In using all the fresh clams, mussels, oysters etc., do you at all feel you are adding a substantial amount of metals into the tank?

I read somewhere out there about the high levels of certain metals in the clams, oysters & mussels you use in your recipe and was wondering if any testing was ever done on any of the molluscs included in the recipe?

I'll find the research on the topic of metals in these kinds of animals and post it if you feel it's at all relevant.

Thanks bud.

has anyone found this to be an issue ?

[Snarkys]

take it this is the stuff you dont want.
American Marine Selcon

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_additives_american_marine.asp?CartId=http://www.marinedepot.com/IMD/150/AM1513.jpg

[Snarkys]

so i was at a seafood store today trying to buy some flying fish roe , sea urchin roe , oysters shrimp .....

dude told me there is like no chance of ever finding flying fish roe without preservatives and ALL of it has artificial coloring . they had it in little cups but he found the main package and it had salt, coloring, "MSG" and some other crap .

he also told me you will never really know if your shimp has preservatives because the suppliers will only tell them or label it about half the time if it has preservatives. so it will be a crap shoot.

pretty much said if they tell you flying fish roe doesnt have preservatives than either they have no clue and just say yes to sell it , they are lieing to get you to buy it or they are just plain wrong . and shrimp is crap shoot at best.

now nothing is absolute and im sure some of you have a place where the stuff is fresh as can be but buyer beware .


BTW this seafood store supplys fish to alot of the restaurants in town and is not staffed by idiots or what i would be to be liars.

[jumatomar]

eric- im worried about worm, can fresh food cause worm to accumulate in the tank? i've tried but after sometime i can see tab worm appear on my glass. Is it because of the fresh food?

[jennifera]

Eric, I am new to this hobby and have a Eco-Wheel system (donated to my school) which is supposed to support itself. I don't think it does entirely. No one has said anything about needing to feed the corals or the clam(who died). The corals are looking good lately and the polyps are starting to appear places they never were bef0re, but I want to know if I need to do more for them.

[Snarkys]

can anyone tell me how much golden pearls to use ? i used like 2-3 cups last time . someone told me that was way to much . prolly is.. ......

[saberry]

I've seen variations of this and was planning on making some. I am curious if anyone has ever tried putting it in small ice cube trays (inside ziplocks for freshness)? Then you could just drop in a cube at feeding time.

[Azgasser]

that is what i did. worked great. the exact ingredients arent as important as having a variety. i used shrimp, both mysis and whole, crab, clams, cyclopeeze, some sushi wraps, flake food, sushi roe, phyto, etc. all of these i had around the tank. it worked great.

[Reefdude3]

What's the best type of fish to use, not only for blender mush, but in general. Is Hadock good? What about talibut? Does it need to be saltwater, or will catfish work? Oily or non oily? WHite or non white? Is there even a general consensus? Anyone's opionions would be great, obviously including Eric's

[algonquin]

Hi Eric. I am just knew to this forum and this hooby. I am wondering what your thoughts are on a product called "Amino-Vital" I just purchased a "Hammer Coral" and the fella at the LFS said this would be good for the coral. Do I need this or is it just adding extra stuff into the tank?

Thanks
Andy

[orion76]

Originally posted by Reefdude3
What's the best type of fish to use, not only for blender mush, but in general. Is Hadock good? What about talibut? Does it need to be saltwater, or will catfish work? Oily or non oily? WHite or non white? Is there even a general consensus? Anyone's opionions would be great, obviously including Eric's

I would use non-oily, especially if you use a skimmer. Fats in the water will decrease skimmer performance.

Personally I like to use tiny fish and blend them in whole hoping this will provide more nutrition than just the filet.

Last time I used Shishamo, the pregnant smelt served in Japanese restaurants. First I cut out the eggs, blend the body and then add the eggs to the mixture when the blending is done.

[aeherold]

Eric,

When you freeze in sheets, do you just break off the frozen chuncks and put it in the water? Defrost in saltwater first? I ask because I have a 20g with 3 striped damsels and 1 clown. I've had it for 3 years. I am adding coral next week and hope to get an anemone someday. I don't want to put too much stuff in there. Should I try and freeze things into little pellets instead?

Thanks,
Anne

[Deep6]

Eric,
That is great info for someone new like me. I have three questions:

1) Is there a special mix you have for the fish or does it work for both?

2) How much of the mix do you break off and feed them?

3) How often do you feed?

Thsnks
Tim

[college429]

Where do you get sea urchin roe?

[Snarkys]

sea urchin roe is way to costly to ever be worht it unless you are filthy rich ....

[jumatomar]

hi guys, a small doubt. If we blend our food, will the fish be able to eat them.

[twon8]

Would canned herring roe be suitable? The only contents are herring roe and water.

[garbled]

A quick question about the feeding targets for this recipe. I have three main tanks. One dedicated to mostly soft corals and gorgonians, another is mostly LPS, and the third is (in progress) going to be SPS mainly. This recipe sounds really good for the SPS and LPS tanks, and possibly for the gorgonians, but would it be any good at all for most of the soft corals? It sounds like it would certainly stimulate the pods, and other good things about the tank, but I'm wondering if there would be any direct benefit to a soft coral. My understanding is that they just don't capture prey that big. (generally speaking of course, I know "soft corals" is a big group).

Also.. with funny blender stories.. I was once making a concoction similar to this with a bag of frozen seafood mix from the store. I discovered (violently) that it contained whole cuttlefish, when it put one right through the side of the blender. :) My wife nearly killed me for the resulting kitchen mess, and promptly bought me my own blender.

[Fastmarc]

Hi Eric,
I have been using a variation of your food recipe for quite a while and I am very satisfied with the results. The real difference with what I make is that I leave out any form of commercial food (flake or granule).
The reason why I exclude it is because a few years ago I had a length battle with phosphates and eventually traced it down to the commercial food I was using at the time. This problem went away when I switched to this version of your recipe. Years later, I still cannot bring myself to include it.
Did you have any such concerns at first?

[EricHugo]

You can certainly add or leave out ingredients. Recently, I have become very fond of the oyster eggs that Dennis Tagrin s using is providing at DT's plankton farm...amazingly dense and small food source. Definitely avoid anything that seriously degrades water quality. Shoot, hatch some Artemia and then freeze them in the mix, too.

I also feel that the bllenderizing process produces food particlesof such various sizes that virtually everythign gets something out of the mx.
On the amino acids, I can offer the following very informative link...also very infomative in terms of "prophylactic dips" to rid potentially opportunistic pathogens following stressful events like shipping. It will tell you just how effective or necessary amino acids are to corals - at least the corals studied. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9078264&dopt=Abstract

This article used to be available as full text online, but I cannit find it anymore. The abstract is quite informative though, and I would send a .pdf to anyone interested in the full article.

Eric

[floridareefs]

Great food recipes. I tried it and my corals are digging it.. thanks eric

[sihaya]

Originally posted by michaelg
Eric- you forgot the second part of the disclaimer in the fish recipe- that you are not accountable for any resulting divorces/whaps upside the head- after the spouse sees, smells, and realizes you used the margahrita blender.

Or realizes that you used his toothbrush to clean your refugium... or that you are cultivating copepods on his night stand.... :eek:



I was wondering if feeding enriched live baby brine shrimp is any different (better/worse) than feeding frozen. I know that when it comes to fish, live foods can make them more agressive... is there a similar thing with aggressive corals? So would a brain coral's sweeper tenacles start reaching out more for live food? I also wondered if live baby brine would create less waste if they stayed alive until they were consumed? Or is that not an issue really?

[sihaya]

Do you turn off your protein skimmer during feeding?

[EricHugo]

Sihaya: yes live is better in terms of not polluting the tank and nutrition. But, some corals may not be able to feed well on motile prey - they swim right out of the polyps of some corals if ensnared (likely soft corals, and maybe a few stonies).

No, I don't turn off my skimmmer during feeding, but I should..and so should everyone. The reason I don't is that the skimmer pump is outside and it's too inconvenient. So I just feed more.

[styxnpicks]

I was bored the other night and decided to dust off the blender, well I had ALOT of different fish food and I got sick of messing with it so heres what went in the blender:

some frozen Mysid
some frozen Bloodworms
lots of frozen Brine shrimp
3/4 bar of frozen cyclop-eeze
1.5 oz of vibra grow
12-16 oz of my live phytoplankton culture
that baggie of free pyto-feast flake

I made enuff food to last me for a year and the tank seems to dig it, I like having everything all in one so there is a good variety of food for all, I still feed the fish flake seperate tho, the next batch will have even more goodies thrown in, and i'm sure the LFS will enjoy me spending 100 bux on food as much as my tanks will

[sihaya]

So... the only time I ever buy caviar in my life, it's not because the pope is coming to visit... but for my reef aquarium. And we wonder why people think we're crazy...

[AquariumSpecialty]

Sounds like what they fed to the Great White in "Jaws"...Chum.

[aaron23]

Just a thought might seem very dumb or some thing i dont know. I was just wondering if i had purchased a bit of raw seafoods from the asian markets if bad bacteria or anything/surroundings will have an effect with the blended foods being fed into the tank. I mean because you said the bloodier the better would they all prefer just a rinse of tap water?
thanks.
aaron.

[EricHugo]

If you want, but will tapwater rinsing get rid of "bad" bacteria? There might also be bad bacteria in the tap water, on your hands, on the utensils you make the food with, etc. I would hope that seafood you purchase is relatively free of pathogens, and remember that because something is a pathogen to humans does not make it a pathogen to corals/fish, andconversely, something harmless to us might be lethal to corals/fish. And, unless you plan on screening and blast sequencing every thing that goes in your tank, from dry food, to brine shrimp, to additives to room dust, skin mites, etc., then provided the seafood isn't rancid, I think its probably safe enough.

[aaron23]

you are a very wise man. thank you very much on your input and your great thread extremely appreciated kind sir.

[EricHugo]

By the way, I was cleaning out a drawer this morning and found an old folder that is directly relevant to this thread. IT was written on an old dot matrix printer, so I know is is old. But, check this out...I quote
"Eric,

Dick Perring offered this recipe, saying some corals absolutely need to be fed - i.e. Favia spp., which go into recession if they aren't fed in his tanks. This seems to be a great thing to add to the feeding chapter.

Would you call Dick and confirm this recipe and see if we can provide a bit more guidance on quantities, types of fish roe, etc.?

Dick Perrin, prioneer coral farmer and founder of Tropicorium in Romulus Michigan uses and recommends this formula as an all-purpose food for corals

Table shrimp
Fish roe
Egg yolk, boiled and mashed
Liquid Multi-Vitamins
Vitamin B12 (crushed tablet)
Reef Plus (SeaChem)

Perrin recommends blending or shredding with the shrimp, then mixing in the other ingredinets with a small amount of clean artifical seawater. The coral chow can then be fed immediaely, using apoultry baster to direct the mixture to the individual corals. It can also be frozen in cubes in plastic ice cube trays for future use. Perrin believes the Reef Plus supplement (vitamins, amino acids, and fatty acids) makes the food more palatable to corals, triggering a feeding response.

This is, of course, a version of my coral food with the addition in my food of a more diverse group of foods, including newer and better products, and the Selcon being the better substitute of Reef Plus. I will repost this part in the coral feeding thread, too.

Interesting, isn't it?

[Large Polyp Dave]

egg yolk??? wow...

have you tried it eric? would you recommend it yourself?

[EricHugo]

no, I haven't but it makes sense....lots of protein and breaks up into verry small particles when cooked.

[EdKruzel]

It makes my Hydnophora all warm and fuzzy (okay so I speculated on the warm part).
The feeding response is noticeable.

Ed

[CDGreenEyes]

Back in my aquaculture days in graduate school (early - mid eighties), we used egg yolk to feed our larval shrimp cultures. It caused a noticeable increase in bacterial counts in the culture containers so we had to clean them more often. We also discovered it was important to screen the egg yolk down to a size our cultures could use. Grinding it up was not enough, it had to be of a particular particle size to be useful.

It was not a whole food though. Larvae fed exclusively egg yolk did not survive to the PL stage. In fact, we did not achieve our best survival rates until the egg yolk was removed from the recipe entirely.

[sihaya]

I have a funny story about that.... when I was breeding betas (or trying to), I mixed some yeast and egg yolk and arthemia napuli in a bottle and put it in the frig. It exploded around about the time my mom told me I couldn't live with her anymore...

[CDGreenEyes]

Originally posted by sihaya
I have a funny story about that.... when I was breeding betas (or trying to), I mixed some yeast and egg yolk and arthemia napuli in a bottle and put it in the frig. It exploded around about the time my mom told me I couldn't live with her anymore...

I'm sure that was just a coincidence. :cool: Actually, you're probably fortunate she did not mistake it for egg nog. LOL!

I have also had exploding egg experiences when attempting to concoct foods for critters. Once I decided to crack an egg into a bowl and just put the bowl in the microwave to cook it faster. ... Now all the cooks out there are laughing their a***s off right now but, at the time, I didn't know any better. It took hours to clean the microwave and a week to get the smell out of the kitchen.

[EricHugo]

interesting...makes sense

[Stinky2426]

Thanks for the recipe. Fish and corals look much happier.

[jefathome]

Originally posted by Snarkys
sea urchin roe is way to costly to ever be worht it unless you are filthy rich ....

Not always... I can get a small "flat" of uni for about $5
I'd probably eat about half myself, and then use the other half for the fish.
;)

[sihaya]

Isn't Uni urchin meat? ...that gross yellow stuff they put on sushi? Urchin roe would be urchin eggs I believe.

[EricHugo]

Uni is great fish food and probably good coral food, too - though it is not one of my favorite sushi items...never quite got the taste for it.

[tcollin]

Q `

[Billionzz]

In a earlier post it was stated that Xenia and Star polyps don't capture food.

How and what should you feed them?

Thanks,
Bill

[EricHugo]

Light and they will feed on and be fed by the bacteria that grows on their surface and pull dissolved nutrients from the water column. I'm not sure if they might be able to move small detrital partcles caught on their surface by ciliary action into their mouths, but their mesenteries are well developed for digestion, so unless the epithelial cells can directly take up the material by phagocytosis or pinocytosis, there probably isn't much going on in terms of feeding and digestion at all except intracellularly.

[Billionzz]

Thanks for all of the information Eric,

I also have your book which has been a great help since I am new to reefing.

I have a list of questions I was hoping that you could help me with.

1. Things change with time, you stated a few post back that you now really like Oyster Eggs, can you tell me what's new as far as feeding corals?

2. I have DT's and Oyster Eggs should I feed them separately or with your recipe?

3. What are golden pearls and are they a key ingredient?

4. Here is the mix I was planning on making, can you tell me if this is the ok? If I need to add anything please let me know.

Ø shrimp
Ø oysters
Ø fish roe
Ø clams or mussels
Ø brine shrimp
Ø mysid shrimp
Ø Cyclop-Eze
Ø Dry fish food (new life spectrum)
Ø Selco or Reef Complete

5. I live in the Houston area (LaPorte on the bay so I have access to fresh seafood) plus as you know there are many Asian markets around. I think I have or can get most of the ingredients pretty easy but I'm not sure about the golden pearls, do you know where to get them locally?

6. So if I feed your recipe, DT's and Oyster eggs would this be the absolute best or is there something else I could do?

7. Would live brine shrimp from the fish store be better than frozen brine shrimp?

8. Do you still prefer Selco over Reef Complete?

9. What is Tahitian Blend?

I know this is a lot of questions, I appreciate any help you can give me.

Bill

[scylam]

hi eric,
could you please suggest type of coral food for my 50g reef tank? currently i'm dosing the coral with kent marine phytomax & zoomax on alternative day.
thanks

:fish1: CLICK HERE TO VISIT THE TANK (http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2109412826)

[Reefski's]

i think Eric has moved on. you can find his new forum at marinedepot.com/forums

there is a new thread there about feeding.

[ben&bobbi]

in one of these many pages, i have read to get the seafood from the grocery store. however, everyone i see says "previously frozen"! is this what everyone is using or does your grocery store carry fresh stuff?

i also read that you just throw this and that in and get 5 sandwhich bags full, but nothing says 5 large shrimp, 2" square of cyclopeze, 35 drops of Zoe, etc. does anyone have a better guess of what they do? i'm sure i could find better info if the search worked for me!!!

[michaelg]

A lot of times all you can get is frozen stuff to make thecocktail with. Try to find stuff with minimal preservatives. If you have one- find an oriental market that has a good seafood dept. Tends to be cheaper, more variety, and you can bring stuff home for dinner.

[Chicago]

brewers yeast good to add. and is there a difference betwenn taht and old plain bread yeast ?

[trpigg]

awesome info eric...Thanks for the help on my newbie tank.

[Eklikewhoa]

Does this food sink or float? I have a hard time getting my chunks of food to sink down to my Anemone.

[Snowboarda42]

Holy old thread, batman!

To answer your question though, its supposed to be melted in a cup of tank water, then poured in. Its more like a liquid rather than a solid that floats. It has to be really small so your corals can get some.

[newclean]

Eric, do you have an update for your current coral feeding recipe? Or does the stuff from 2002-2004 still stand? Any new products you have good experience with?

[kzooreefer]

I don't believe Eric even comes to Reef Central any more. You can find him on marinedepot's forums, he has his own forum under Team Marinedepot

http://forum.marinedepot.com/

[newclean]

thanks kzoo,

I'll try to get him there. I will post his response on this forum...if I get one. Also if I am allowed to do that (forum rules). Administrator please chime in on this.

[newclean]

Eric's response to me at marine depot:

"As I have mentioned in the past, it changes from batch to batch depending on what is available. Are there any particular products you had in mind? There are a lot of new food products out there, and I try to read the ingredients when I see them but as of yet I fail to see anything particularly new or exciting in most of them. I did a group order of food for our local club, and H2) had a frozen coral food that had good ingredients in it, but again, nothing novel. Just convenient that more and more manufacturers are FINALLY becoming aware of the need and size of coral food products and diversifying a bit."

[Fragman2]

I have been thinking about making my own fish/coral food for a long time now but have not done so. Are new high quality products like "Rods food" from Rod's Reef going to be more or less expensive than going out and buying all of the stuff on the list of ingredients making a big stinky mess with my blender?

Paul