My New Hairy Horse

[steelcaveman]

I had no intentions of getting a seahorse today, but I have a hard time saying no to big hair!
The LFS assured me that it was captive bred.
What kind is it??

[rayjay]

Sorry but I'm not confident enough to be able to tell you for sure what species it is.
However, for your seahorses, sake, it would have been best to do some research first, to find the needs best suited for your seahorses success.
Number one thing to be concerned about in a reef tank is stinging corals.
Number two, is the possibility of stress due to faster moving fish and fish outcompeteting the seahorse for food. Sometimes stress can cause the seahorse to just stop eating.
Another factor will the possibility of the bacteria in the reef overcoming the seahorse natural immune system.
Some starting reading from my site can be found HERE (http://www.angelfire.com/ab/rayjay/seahorsekeeping.html)
As for the CIRI attached to the seahorse, they may disappear in time when kept in an aquarium.

[steelcaveman]

Sorry but I'm not confident enough to be able to tell you for sure what species it is.
However, for your seahorses, sake, it would have been best to do some research first, to find the needs best suited for your seahorses success.
Number one thing to be concerned about in a reef tank is stinging corals.
Number two, is the possibility of stress due to faster moving fish and fish outcompeteting the seahorse for food. Sometimes stress can cause the seahorse to just stop eating.
Another factor will the possibility of the bacteria in the reef overcoming the seahorse natural immune system.
Some starting reading from my site can be found HERE (http://www.angelfire.com/ab/rayjay/seahorsekeeping.html)
As for the CIRI attached to the seahorse, they may disappear in time when kept in an aquarium.


THE SEAHORSE POLICE ARE NOT WELCOME ON THIS THREAD!!!:uzi:
Time to bust the seahorse police.

What other aggressive fish do you see with this seahorse???
What stinging corals do you see in this pic???

I don't recall a request for a link to your blog!
For fun I read it. And yes, you are not academically qualified to be dissing others.

I do know what kind of seahorse it is.
If you were an expert on seahorses you would be able to identify this seahorse easily, instead you chose the path of disparaging comments.

The seahorse is a good 5 inches tall and has so much ciri that I felt it worthy to share with others on this forum.

FYI: My other seahorses are doing great and are eagerly awaiting their new 90 gallon home. I have over 30 years of experience in the fish hobby, which may be a bad thing in the world of the seahorse police.

[ChadTheSpike]

wow, that is a strong response. It appears you may be in the vast minority of posters here, and you may know what you are getting in to with the seahorses. Most need the basic guidance that rayjay provided, I do no think it was intended to be anything but helpful.

That being said, seahorses with cirri are beautiful to me and I enjoyed your picture, thanks for sharing. Like rayjay, I too am not positive on identification, the seahorse appears young.

[whipit]

I have been planning a pony tank for the last several months and it is very exciting.
good luck with him he is beautiful. I have found a lot of wonderful info here on tank mates compatible corals just all around great info:) http://www.seahorse.org/ he kinda of looks like an erectus?? what ever he is I am sure he has a wonderrful new home.

[steelcaveman]

My response is a bit over the top.
I have seen very knowledgeable and successful reefers stop their participation in forums due to fish police.
For me fish and coral are a passion more so than a hobby.
Regardless - if it isn't a fun experience, it isn't worth my time.

This will be the Shak of seahorses if it is young.
The story is that she did not pair off with a male for breeding, so here she is.
The owner was pretty happy that she was going to a good home.

[rayjay]

First, let me apologize if I have offended you with my post as it certainly was not intended to be offensive but rather informative.
From your previous posts, you had mentioned LPS corals of which many are stinging but then again, I don't know that you have any of the stinging corals in that tank.
You have been fortunate, as some hobbyists have in that you can keep the clownfish in with your reidi seahorses, but that is not the norm as many stress the seahorses too much.
I have never claimed to be an expert and am indeed not, but I have enough years of experiences that I can share with others so I wrote that for my website.
The main thing on my website is information via the links at the bottom that for the most part are written by more informed people than myself, Dan, Ann, and Elf.
Combined, I believe the information to be very informative for newer to the hobby or new to the hobby people.
I have over fifty years of keeping fish, with over 17 years in the marine end of it but it still didn't keep me from doing stupid things, even after reading for years on seahorse.org that it was not recommended.
Unfortunately I've come to realize that human nature being what it is, many other people tend to do the same things I did, with experience or without.
That was another point for my musings.
You have added a beautiful looking seahorse and I wish you and the seahorses luck in your future endeavors with them.
I have five different species of seahorses but that one doesn't look exactly like any I have but is closest to the erectus.
I hope you don't mind my saying that I suggest close watching of the tank for problems that MIGHT develop as a result of mixing species.
You may have already read that seahorses sometimes fall victim to pathogens carried by other species, or indeed, from the same species of different origin and if caught in time (if it happens) then remedial action can be successful.

[ann83]

Dude, you're the one that said "the LFS assured me that it was captive bred. what kind is it???" Come on, you have to know that for most people, that reads "newb". ;) I don't think it was out of line for rayjay to assume that based on your initial post, and saying that about any other type of reef fish I think would have gotten you the same response, so I'm not sure if "seahorse police" applies here. It definitely doesn't read as someone who is so experienced with seahorses that they are going to disparage someone as "not experienced" for not knowing the seahorse's species.
Yes, the seahorse is an H. erectus. Can't tell if you wanted that info or not, since in the first post you ask what kind it is, and in the second, you say that you know. But, since you asked.

[steelcaveman]

I do a Formalin 2 dip on all my fish.
All coral is dipped in Prazipro.
I feed mysis, cyclops, & Fauna Marin Sea fan line.
I use Selcon on the mysis.

The perc is actually terrified of the seahorses.
My big redi beat the <>&^ out of it the first day I added her to the tank.

I do have a seahorse husbandry related question.
I have found over the years that fish are really good at controlling algae compared to other animals.
I just added the ORA black line blenny, a great algae eater, but will need to be carefully watched.
Are there any great algae eating fish that do well with seahorses?
What is a good food supplement for seahorses?

[ann83]

Yes, the blenny will definitely need to be watched. Algae blennies have been known to beat the snot out of seahorses, quickly and unexpectedly.

The only algae eating fish that I can think of that is relatively safe with seahorses is a saltwater-acclimated sailfin molly. I use snails and manual removal.

As for food supplements. Occasionally feeding live shrimp gutloaded with things like algae/vitamins and/or beta glucan is a good idea.

[rayjay]

For enrichments to gut load live shrimp with, go to seahorsesource enrichment page.
Seahorse Source - Enrichments (http://www.seahorsesource.com/cgi-bin/shop/search.cgi?&category=Foods-Enrichments)
If you scroll down, you will find "Dan's Feed Artemia Enrichment" which can be used for all stages of artemia from instar II onward, as well as mysids and other shrimp that you may feed your seahorses.

[steelcaveman]

When I first saw the seahorse I thought that it was a really big Erectus.
I looked closer, not an Erectus, and just had to ask the LFS owner more.
It is an Ingen H.
http://marinebio.org/species.asp?id=109

The cirri is pretty over the top for this seahorse.
I called the LFS owner today - he has a Phd in Marine Biology, bred seahorses, and in the business for a long time - he had the same question I did about the cirri and the Breeder insists that it is not a hybrid.
I inquired about being part Erectus - he is certain that it is not Erectus. He thought it may be an Ingen cross bred with some type of Japanese seahorse ?coronatus? The breeder insists that it is a pure Ingen.

[ann83]

No it isn't. It is not H. ingens. That is H. erectus. The H. ingens coronet and body type are completely different.

I only know of one breeder of H. ingens, and while he does occasionally get his stock into the U.S., they go through a wholesaler, so the LFS owner would not have spoken directly to him. And, they are much smaller at import, and of course, not shaped like H. erectus ;)

[ann83]

H. ingens http://gallery.seahorse.org/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=316
H. erectus http://www.flickr.com/photos/feliciamccaulley/3654198911/

[steelcaveman]

Pretty sure it was shipped through a wholesaler in Bali.
The owner is pretty tight lipped about his suppliers.
I do know that it was not bred in the US.
The other ones were much smaller than the one in the pic.
He gets them in twice per year.

[ann83]

The only place that I know H. ingens is being bred is Mexico. I know of no reason for them to be coming out of Bali at all (they aren't native there, either). I also know of no reason for H. erectus to be coming out of Bali, but who knows. Either way, that fish is H. erectus. Maybe the wholesaler had some H. erectus and some H. ingens and didn't differentiate.

[rayjay]

Take a look at THIS (http://forum.seahorse.org/index.php?showtopic=43638&st=0&p=462020&#entry462020) thread of zea-ingens who is as far as I know at this time, the only captive bred breeder of H. ingens on this side of the ocean at least.
From Bali, I would suspect they would be more likely to be tank raised no matter what the species, as there are very few Asian captive breeding producers. Aquamarine International is the only one I know of at the moment that has captive bred.
I also find it unusual that a store would be bringing in an order because usually the cost to bring them in is such that a transhipper/wholesaler here perhaps would bring them across and then distribute to various stores.

[steelcaveman]

I will have to do a little more digging into the source of the horse.
I will also try to take a full shot of the horse from another angle.
I am looking at some the pics of the Ingen and mine does look different from some pics and very similar to others.
It does look very much like Erectus in many of the pics.

The size is throwing me off though.
The Erectus that I have seen this size have been skinnier.
*
It is definitely a night owl. It is out and about once the moonlights come on and attaches to a rock all day. Not sure this makes a difference.

[ann83]

H. erectus ought to be that broad-chested at that size, although some captive bred take longer to get there. H. ingens are never that broad-chested, and since they reach 10 - 12 inches, are likely to still be very juvie-like (thin and gangly) at that stage.

If you don't believe my assessment (and I don't blame you, you don't know me from adam, and I'm not technically qualified), what I would direct you to do is to look at the morphological identifying features like coronet shape, the eye spines, and the cheek spines, among others, as a starting off point. Looking at the standards put out by project seahorse for seahorse identification, and then comparing to your seahorse.

[rayjay]

Ann, he already has the information for H. ingens in the link he provided in post 12 above.
The drawing below the pictures look like something that would have come from Project Seahorse ID.

[steelcaveman]

H. erectus ought to be that broad-chested at that size, although some captive bred take longer to get there. H. ingens are never that broad-chested, and since they reach 10 - 12 inches, are likely to still be very juvie-like (thin and gangly) at that stage.

If you don't believe my assessment (and I don't blame you, you don't know me from adam, and I'm not technically qualified), what I would direct you to do is to look at the morphological identifying features like coronet shape, the eye spines, and the cheek spines, among others, as a starting off point. Looking at the standards put out by project seahorse for seahorse identification, and then comparing to your seahorse.

Thanks.
I want to see if it changes in size and features over the next few months.
While I am being told it is an Ingen, from what I consider to be a very reliable source, I do have my own doubts. This thread re-affirms the doubts. Just looking at it, I think it is some type of an Erectus hybrid. There are many different types of seahorses that are bred locally in my area - Dallas, TX - so I do see lots of 3 inch seahorses including Erectus.
I may need to have a local seahorse enthusiast come over and take a look.

[rayjay]

While this pdf doesn't address the topic of this thread, I just though you might be interested in the drawing of the erectus female on page four.
ftp://ftp.fao.org/docrep/fao/009/y4161e/y4161e42.pdf

[nickiwit]

Beautiful Seahorse! It makes me miss keeping seahorses.

[timinnl]

Pretty sure it was shipped through a wholesaler in Bali.
The owner is pretty tight lipped about his suppliers.
I do know that it was not bred in the US.
The other ones were much smaller than the one in the pic.
He gets them in twice per year.

Sounds like a LFS. Bali normally are cage/pen/net raised.

I have two stores that I do most of my buying at here in the Netherlands. They are both open & honest about their sources. They have nothing to hide.

[steelcaveman]

Sounds like a LFS. Bali normally are cage/pen/net raised.

I have two stores that I do most of my buying at here in the Netherlands. They are both open & honest about their sources. They have nothing to hide.


There is an abundance of saltwater fish stores in my area. The competition is fierce and some are now on the verge of shutting their doors. There are about 20 good saltwater fish stores within a 30 minute drive.
The owner is honest and told me what he knew. I do know that he struggles with the language barriers and sometimes gets something different from what he thought he ordered.

I paid under $70, including the taxes, which I consider to be a good deal regardless of the kind.

[TamiW]

If I had to guess, I'd guess that is a wild caught H. erectus from florida. Cirri is not common in captive bred seahorses, and it appears to be on the larger side. Not that either preclude it from being captive bred but it does make it more suspect. My guess its its a wild caught guy from FL, since it is legal to collect and sell in the US native seahorses.

I'd watch that seahorse very carefully, along with your other seahorses. If it is wild caught, or even net pen raised/tank raised, there is a very good chance it could be carrying something.

It's not a hybrid. Erectus has a very wide range of body types. But if you're really not sure, grab the seahorse id guide, and start counting features:
http://www.divebooks.net/download/idseahorse.pdf
It will also make it clearer just how much variation erectus has, as there is a good chart of all the features each species may have.

[rayjay]

The problem I have with the ID guide is that so many seahorses have the same counts of things or fall within similar ranges that those counts most times are not definitive.
In this case though the average tail ring count for erectus is 36 (34-39) with the ingens tail ring count average being 39 (38-40)
More importantly is the description of the coronet although the erectus has more variants of this than the ingens.
erectus: Variable, low, triangular wedge; ridge-like or raised with sharp edges; or with relatively sharp spines.
ingens: Medium-high, tilted backwards with five well-defined points, sharp edges, or flanges at top.
Some help comes also from the "other" description.
erectus: Deep-bodied; may have enlarged first, third, fifth, seventh and eleventh trunk
rings (in most other species the enlarged rings are the first, fourth, seventh and eleventh); snout is usually less
than one-half head length; cheek spine may be single or double. Head and neck often have white lines.
ingens:Prominent, long (drooping), rounded, single cheek spines;
prominent eye spine (may be broad or almost double); males commonly have a prominent keel;
sexually mature females often have a dark patch below the anal fin87.
While the ingens will get to be the bigger seahorse, the erectus will have a much fuller body.

[Elysia]

FishGrrl -- wild caught erectus was my first thought, as well, especially considering the price.

[namxas]

H. erectus, without a doubt.

[TamiW]

Rayjay, its true, there is a lot of overlap between the different features a seahorse can have, and erectus especially has a wide range of features that overlap with a lot of different seahorses. The biggest thing though is to count everything and then usually a single species emerges.

A lot of the time we only count a few things and so the results are inconclusive (i'm guilty of it too). Photographic the seahorse helps, especially a good macro of the dorsal fin for counting fin rays. Head/Snout Length ratio too, so you can compare on the computer (though, this can be tricky if the angle is wrong.)

It doesn't help with the additional species that Kuiter has supposedly described, if indeed they are new species. But it will give a nice idea of the most commonly available species.

[DanU]

I have to disagree about the cirri. Actually it is quite common for H. erectus to develop cirri in captivity. Cirri seems to be a lot like color in that it is highly variable and used as camouflage.

H. erectus do indeed have a lot of variability in traits based on their origin. Differences can be found from those in the Gulf, Keys, Southern, Mid-Atlantic and Northern Atlantic coasts.

Anyone who has ever had H. ingens would be quick to point out, that this is not H. ingens.

Dan

[CWP]

Sorry to butt into this conversation, however... While I'm definitely not an expert in sea horses, I do have two pair of H. erectus that were wild caught in the Florida Keys and both of my females look nearly identical to the photo. The markings are similar, as are the colors; and while one of my females had ciri, the other did not. But I do understand how difficult it is to determine species; fortunately I bought mine directly from the source and knew what I was getting. By the way, I love mine and hope you get as much joy from yours as I do mine. Good luck.

[TamiW]

Dan, I stand corrected on the cirri. You would know. :) Incidentally, the only cirri I've seen on captive bred seahorses are photos of erectus from you!

[savageAJC]

rayjay :thumbsup:

[DanU]

Tami, there others, they don't produce as much or have been around as long. Jorge used to get quite a bit, Beth gets some and many hobbyists get a few in broods. Wish it was predictable. :)

Dan

[LisaD]

I'm jumping in late, but that is definitely H erectus. For the OP, I have tried to keep a single false perc (as opposed to a more territorial pair) with seahorses, and even this timid clownfish eventually attacked them. Clownfish are not safe longterm tankmates, IME.

OP may have covered it, and I may have missed it, but what are you feeding? WC erectus often don't recognize frozen as food, but are usually not to hard to wean to mysis...

[Mandy0020]

I had about 30% of my last brood born with cirri.. Of course my adults are Dan and Abbey's....


Dan, I stand corrected on the cirri. You would know. :) Incidentally, the only cirri I've seen on captive bred seahorses are photos of erectus from you!

[steelcaveman]

Here is an updated pic.
She is one strange horse.
The one hanging upside down.
Very passive compared to the reidi.
She is not a good eater.
I've tried a few things - only dead food I've seen her eat is Reef Nutrition Artic Pods. Odd food choice, but all my seahorse go into a frenzy over the stuff.

[onepoorreefer]

That sea horse is sweet I hope they get some in chicago

[steelcaveman]

Update =
The hairy horse had the appetite of a supermodel and passed.
I really think she was wild caught.
I am in the process of shifting the tank from being dominated by non photosynthetic corals to those needing light.
There are many reasons for the change - some of the non photo corals were slowing dieing - ie dendros, due to the seahorses wrapping their tails around the them. A few of my favorite corals were not doing well under 2 watts per gallon. The constant feeding was a party for the bristle worms that created a bad environment for the seahorses. I added an arrow crab that has managed to devour the bristle worms. I was also dealing with algae from overfeeding so I added a clown tang and potters angels. They leave the seahorses alone - as they are too busy picking on each other - and the algae issue is under control.
I am considering some encrusting monti's any thoughts???
My seahorses are about 4 inches.

[barbianj]

I may not be very experienced in the seahorse world, but I have a Clown Tang, and they can be very aggressive. They also get very large. My Clown Tang can be as aggressive as my Blueline trigger.

[steelcaveman]

I had the same concern regarding the clown tang.
I asked around and those that mixed fish with seahorses were of the opinion that the clown tang, naso, chevron, & gold rim tang would most likely leave the seahorses alone - or the tang will need to be removed.
In hindsight I wish I had gone with a small gold rim - as they do not grow quickly.
My clown tang is a bit of a spaz and will at times swim very fast all over the tank with no regard.
He has been in there for one month. At this point my primary concern for the seahorses is being trampled during the tang's occasional swim fest.
I've had lots of tangs over the years - some were not even considered - like the yellow tang, blue tang, kole,,,,IME these tend to bully all fish - not just the algae grazers. At some point I will need to remove the clown tang - as my tank is only 90 gallons. I will post the good and the bad regarding my experiences.

[timinnl]

Sorry to here about your loss. How is the H. reidi doing? If you have a chance, please look here: http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/tankmates/tankmates.shtml Lots of useful info into what is safe or not safe to keep with seahorses.

Kind regards,

tim

[steelcaveman]

I have visited seahorse.org. The safe vs not safe list does not appear to differentiate between new born seahorses, pygmy, captive bred, large seahorses, or tank size.
The ratings appear to be based on opinions and they do not disclose the exact issue.
There was a blanket rating of 4 for all tangs - the basis may be very different from one genus of tang to different genus. The yellow tang I would assume just kills the seahorse. While the clown tang may out compete the seahorse for food. My CB reidi's are very aggressive at feeding time and get plenty to eat - while wild caught would likely get no food due to their very slow eating behavior.
The most dangerous item in my tank -IMO is the arrow crab - but without him the seahorses would have died from eating bristle worms. I literally had to remove two seahorses to extract worms from their mouths. I plan to remove the crab in one month and put him in my sump to address the worms down there and add a small wrasse to address any baby worms that my still be in the main display. I would rate my blue legged hermits the second biggest threat - I have seen them clamp down on the seahorse tail and get hauled around the tank. The blue legged hermit crabs are almost all gone. I would rate my Potters angel as being safer than my CB perc. The Potters angel totally ignores the seahorses, so I am not clear why that fish was deemed a serious threat level on their site - not sure if it is a case of guilty by association.
*
The reidi - are doing great - but I did loose one shortly after the hairy horse died -it appears to have gotten sick, no visible wounds, marks or fungus.
Once the arrow crab is relocated I plan to add a few more CB reidi seahorses.

[ann83]

The seahorse.org tankmates list is for adult large species seahorses only. It does not reflect any opinions at all on fry, or on dwarf seahorses. All ratings are of the assumption that you would have a large enough tank for the tankmate in question; though some ratings do reflect the generally poor survival rate, regardless of environment, of some fish species. As for explanations for the ratings, you'll have to read the introduction to the tankmate guide to get an explanation for what each rating means. The tankmates guide *is* based on opinion, you're right about that. How else would you expect it to be written? Fish don't exactly tell us what their intentions are. So, opinion and personal experience of many seahorse keepers is about the best you're going to get, don't you think?
As for the arrow crab, I agree, that and the blue leg hermits are not excellent ideas. It worries me that you had your seahorses try to eat bristleworms on two occasions though. Are they trying to feed off the mysis that has settled to the bottom of the tank that may have bristleworms feeding on it? Or are they actually getting that hungry between feedings? That might be something to consider. Even without bristleworms, you still really don't want your seahorses feeding off the bottom if you can help it. Bacteria and ciliates become more of a problem then.
The tangs, aside from being territorial and beating the seahorses up, are algae eaters. Algae eaters can become a problem for seahorses because seahorses tend to grow algae on themselves, sometimes even in otherwise algae-free tanks. They don't appreciate being picked at either, it stresses them a great deal (which is why cleaner shrimp are also not rated as excellent tankmates). So, that is another consideration to think of with tangs.

HTH

[muttley000]

This may be a stupid question, and I have no seahorse experience to offer (I do plan on tank #2 being a seahorse tank) but isn't it a problem keeping the fish and seahorses together because of temperature. I thought you had to keep them in the lower 70's and I wouldn't think the tropical fish would be comfortable.

[steelcaveman]

It worries me too that they would even try to eat bristle worms. On one occasion I was able to witness the event. The seahorse bit it from the live rock. I have a good amount of live rock and a refugium and I have seen them eat live critters rather frequently. I think it may have been a case of mistaken identity. Regardless - eating bristle worms is bad. They are strange eaters - and won't eat frozen food once it hits the sand.
I didn't think about the algae growing on the seahorse being a problem. I currently don't have that situation. Thanks for the tip on the cleaner shrimp. If I see the tang pick on a seahorse - the tang will be removed. One interesting behavior I have noticed with my seahorses is that they will occasionally lay against the intake of the Korallia power heads. It is clearly intentional and I have wondered if it is done as a way clean themselves of unwanted guests.

[ann83]

muttley, the fish that I keep with my seahorses have no trouble at 72-74 degrees. Most tropical fish can handle those temperatures fine. Deeper water, and cooler seasons can both bring those temperatures, and the lower temperatures also have the added benefits of fewer pathogens and better oxygen saturation.
steelcaveman, I'm not sure I'd be 100% on it being mistaken identity. Many keepers (like me) have LR and 'fuges. I'd be more inclined to think they were going after food that the bristleworm was also going after. But, that being said, seahorses in captivity win the Darwin award for fish. I've had to unstuff one of my seahorse's snouts after it got a large peppermint shrimp carapace covered in mini britlestars lodged in it's snout. So, it could just be poor judgement... The aquarium environment is definitely different from their natural habitat, afterall.
As for them being strange eaters because they won't eat settled food, it isn't strange. They don't eat settled food in the wild, and, like I said before, settled food isn't good for them, so you're actually lucking out with some good instincts in that regard.

[steelcaveman]

This may be a stupid question, and I have no seahorse experience to offer (I do plan on tank #2 being a seahorse tank) but isn't it a problem keeping the fish and seahorses together because of temperature. I thought you had to keep them in the lower 70's and I wouldn't think the tropical fish would be comfortable.

I keep my water at 77 - 78.
I've heard the same thing and different reasons as to why.
I am not the best to answer this question.
I do know that many corals do not like temperatures under 77, that is the main reason my tank is at 77-78 and not cooler.

[Faerl]

This may be a stupid question, and I have no seahorse experience to offer (I do plan on tank #2 being a seahorse tank) but isn't it a problem keeping the fish and seahorses together because of temperature. I thought you had to keep them in the lower 70's and I wouldn't think the tropical fish would be comfortable.

Horses can be kept at the same temps as other fish. The problem is that above 75 many of the seahorse diseases will propagate making which increases the risk of infection heavily. It's not a problem in the ocean (much better filtration) but that's why everyone recommends keeping tanks below 75. It's not that the seahorses can't survive, you're just risking a disease coming in at some point.

As for tropical fish, they do prefer the higher temp. However, if you look at the temps in ocean reefs they'll range a bit below 70 in the winter. I keep my tank around 74 with no issues on the corals opening/growing and that keeps it cool enough for seahorses as well. There is a middle ground.

[NyReefNoob]

it is a erectus, here is a pic of mine as well, and sorry to say but keep fish to control algea should be last thought, but better husbandry, or put marco algea in the tank. here is my ap24g little over a year old, done 4 water changes and clean the glass once a month, only other fish in the tank are a pair of yellow watchman gobies, some hermits, snails a cb shrimp and a pistol shrimp

[steelcaveman]

it is a erectus, here is a pic of mine as well, and sorry to say but keep fish to control algea should be last thought, but better husbandry, or put marco algea in the tank. here is my ap24g little over a year old, done 4 water changes and clean the glass once a month, only other fish in the tank are a pair of yellow watchman gobies, some hermits, snails a cb shrimp and a pistol shrimp

Cool Seahorse!

RE: husbandry - I have been "trying" to keep non photosynthetic corals - which equates to feeding at least four times per day - but usually about 6 times per day. My nitrates and phosphates read zero, but for some reason I have had trouble keeping Macro alive long term in my sump - cross my fingers - I've managed to keep some parrot feather alive for one month! I have some rather expensive corals that I occasionally frag to pay for all of my expenses related to this hobby. The algae was effecting the corals and it was either lose the corals, lose the seahorses, or add some fish. I went with the later.
The ideal would be to have a seahorse only tank - but the wife nixed that idea. I have also decided to nix the non photosynthetic corals, upgrade my lighting, and change out some corals. Plus the room housing the tank has two glass walls - basically it gets too much sun light. This shift in environment should help with nutrient levels. I did consider the well being of the seahorses when choosing the fish, albeit I didn't give much weight to the rating on the seahorse.org site. I actually had a potters with three seahorses for over one year and never had a problem in my prior tank. I made the mistake of selling him when I decided to have only seahorses and pipefish

The clown tang has been a good boy for the past four weeks so I am hopeful. I have had zero issues with the Potters Angel. The prior post noted the issue of algae growing on the seahorses that I did not consider and may result in a removing of the clown and potters. The other option is to find a good home for the seahorses.

[NyReefNoob]

the macro you see in the background is filled in the tank, literally have to trim it every other week, if you have it in your sump make sure the light u are using is of the right spectrum. makes a huge difference, i tried having clowns in the tank also but then i had to feed a ton more, i think having enough and proper cuc helps alot with the ability to feed a little more, the flow is real low in the tank so that the food kinda just floats around maming it easier for sh to catch and get some, reason i liked the gobies is because they catch and grab all the food going lower, said part is my reef which has all the bells and whistle's is more work then the tank i do nothing to but top off water and feed

[steelcaveman]

I have decided that non photosynthetic corals and seahorses are just too much work. I have found a new home for the horses.

[Peka]

I'm sorry that you had to give up your horses. They are a lot of work and it you are not prepared for it, it takes the enjoyment out of it. I am glad that you got to enjoy them for a little while though....

[Ocean2k]

First time for me to see that horse, very nice.

[ComponentElm246]

Ha ha ha. This guy started off so angry about the seahorse police. And then ended up with no seahorses. Ha ha ha. This was the best read ever. Thanks dudes.

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[rayjay]

I see nothing funny about it.
Some people need a bit more time to realize things but at least acceptance of the fact meant the seahorse had another chance elsewhere.
I don't know about you, but I've been in the seahorse hobby for about 15 yrs now and I'm still learning all the time as the hobby evolves.