how to raise alk with baking soda

[HHIreefer843]

Hey guys i just checked my alk and it was only at 7 and id like to see it around 10. I have been running kalk and thats kept it right arounf 9-10 but for some reason this week it as dropped. I dont have anthing to raise alk besides baking soda and dont feel like ordering for online and there is no LFS near me. So should i use baking soda to raise it back up and start back with the kalk after it is stable again?

My calc is 420, mag is at 1300, and ph is 7.8

Thanks in advance!

[tmz]

Yes, you can use it. It's sodium bicarbonate. If you bake it for an hour it will be mostly carbonate with double the alkalinity . I use it.

[HHIreefer843]

so should i bake it? oh and side note. my total water valume is about 100 gallons

[bellis31]

so should i bake it? oh and side note. my total water valume is about 100 gallons

Theres no reason to bake it if your just using it to raise ALK... mix a cup or so in 1 gallon of RO/DI water and use one of the online calculators to figure out how much liquid to dose.

http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

[bnumair]

sod. bicarbonate will have temp low ph and sod. carbonate will have high ph effect.
also you should not raise more than 1.5dkh per 24 hrs.

[HHIreefer843]

thanks!!!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree that it is as good a way to go as anything you could buy. :)

[dannyny]

just to confirm.

if i want to raise alk without raising PH i do not have to bake the baking soda?

mix with RO water and add slowly?

[shifty51008]

correct, not bakeing it will keep the pH around the same, may lower it a little but just for a short time

[bnumair]

yes baking soda(sodium bicarbonate) will raise alk with a minor lower change in ph for over an hour or so. if u bake it then it becomes sodium carbonate. which is more stronger in alk (so use half dose) but will have a high ph effect for short time.

[cartuli2]

I use a mixture of sodium bicarbonate and sodium carbonate, ... and keep the KH around 10 dKH ...

To maintain the pH at the appropriate values ​​to be added 7 parts of sodium bicarbonate and one part of sodium carbonate.

This is utlizo mixture;

-Solution: 200.7 g of sodium bicarbonate and 31.6 g of sodium carbonate. 25 ml of this solution per 100 liters of aquarium which increases the KH by 1.7 dKH.

Greetings friend

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, many of the commercial products use similar ratios, but IMO it generally isn't worth the bother for a DIY.

FWIW, the exact ratio that leads to no impact on pH depends importantly on what tank pH you want it to have no effect at.

So for example, the ratio to have no effect at tank pH 8.4 has about twice as much carbonate as the ratio to have no tank pH effect at pH 8.1. :)

[dannyny]

wow. a lil confusing.

my ph is about 7.8-8.2 according to API test kit. my alk is about 7.0 dkh according to redsea test kit. i would like my alk to go from 7.0 to somewhere between 8.0 & 11.0 as long as it's in the safe/optimal range im fine with that i just don't want it to drop too low. i do not mind raising my PH a bit as it is on the low end anyway. what do i do?? i just dont want to confuse myself.

to bake or not to bake, that is the question.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Not baking will result in no immediate pH increase, and perhaps a small one later.

Baking will result in a substantial pH increase on first addition if you add it all at once (about 0.3 pH units for each 1.4 dKH added), which will then decline over a few hours after the addition.

With your pH, I'd bake, but it likely is not critical either way. :)

24 h after addition, the pH will probably be close to the same either way if you have good aeration. :)

[dannyny]

Not baking will result in no immediate pH increase, and perhaps a small one later.

Baking will result in a substantial pH increase on first addition if you add it all at once (about 0.3 pH units for each 1.4 dKH added), which will then decline over a few hours after the addition.

With your pH, I'd bake, but it likely is not critical either way. :)

24 h after addition, the pH will probably be close to the same either way if you have good aeration. :)

thanks!! still 50/50 on the baking part.

my tank is very new(2 months old). should i be dosing at all or wait till its fully stocked? or half way stocked? or go by day to day testing?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Dose when the alkalinity is low, regardless of stocking. 7 dKH is OK, but lower is a concern.

Don't agonize over the baking issue. :D

[dannyny]

Dose when the alkalinity is low, regardless of stocking. 7 dKH is OK, but lower is a concern.

Don't agonize over the baking issue. :D

thank you. i will check my alk every 2 days and dose accordingly...

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

:thumbsup;

Sounds good. :)

[jadendo]

How do you bake Baking Soda?
Time & Temperature please.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It depends on how much you are baking (like a large vs small turkey), but if it is not too thick a layer, 400 deg F 1 h is adequate. If very thin, 350 deg F 1 1 is OK. :)

[dannyny]

It depends on how much you are baking (like a large vs small turkey), but if it is not too thick a layer, 400 deg F 1 h is adequate. If very thin, 350 deg F 1 1 is OK. :)

thanks Randy. i was going to bake 1 tablespoon at a time but that's probably not the smartest thing to do. would you happen to know the baking soda to water ratio? maybe i can make gallons of it in a container at a time and take out as needed.

[bertoni]

For baked baking soda, use 2 1/4 cups per gallon. For plain baking soda, use half that.

[bnumair]

For baked baking soda, use 2 1/4 cups per gallon. For plain baking soda, use half that.

isnt it the other way around. i thought baked had more alk than regular?
if i am correct then it would be 2 1/4 cups baked per gal or 4.5 cups regular per 1gal.

[bertoni]

More sodium carbonate dissolves in water than plain baking soda. The solutions are not equal in strength. I forgot, though, that the volume of the baking soda can change during the baking, so it's more like 2 cups per gallon.

[dannyny]

ok if i use 2 cups per gallon baked or not baked. how much of it do i put in my tank? reef calculator states i need 1 tbsp for mt tank. of that gallon i have how much of it do i put in my tank?

does anyone know how much water i need for 1 tbsp? maybe i can make it by dosage?

[bnumair]

danny i never mixed mine in a gal of water, i use BRS calculator and if it says 2tsp i just take 2 tsp and mix in a cup of ro/di water and dump it in the sump.

[tmz]

1 cup = 8ozs. =227 .1 tsp is roughly 5 grams.
2 cups to a gallon (3785 ml)is 454 grams mixed with 3785 ml .
So, 5 grams divided by 454 =.011 x 3785ml=41.6ml.
Fort he same dilution you would need to mix 1tsp with about 42 ml of water.

However, more water is fine and may help it dissolve more readily. Adding more water won't change the1 tsp dose as long as you add all of it.

[.Marshall]

Interesting i'm going to have to try that next time.

[dannyny]

thanks guys! you have been a great help throughout all my many questions. i appreciate it a lot.

[Sensei ClamMan]

If you have a local pool or hot tub shop, they all sell ALK increaser cheaper than any LFS.

[dannyny]

If you have a local pool or hot tub shop, they all sell ALK increaser cheaper than any LFS.

great tip!! i go to connecticut once in a while and there is always a pool supply store i pass by.

[tmz]

Be careful to check what's in the pool stuff. Alkalinity is a measure of many things that make the water more basic ; it is not a specific not a thing. For reefs we need carbonate alkalinity, ie carbonate or bicarbonate . That's what calcifying organisms use. Impurities may also be an issue with the pool stuff.

[frankyrivera]

So is there a difference between dissolving the baking soda in rodi water or tank salted water. Wouldn't a gallon of rodi decrease salinity?

[bertoni]

The baking soda would cause precipitation if it's mixed into a small enough volume of saltwater. Other than that, it's possible to use saltwater.

To dose 1 tbsp of dry sodium carbonate into the tank, I'd just get a small glass, add some RO/DI, and dissolve as much as possible of the powder as possible, and repeat until all that's left is impurities. :) Or you can do the math. It shouldn't take much water.

[tmz]

Typically it takes me about 12ozs of ro.di watr to dissolve a tbspoon of baked baking soda. I could get by with less, I suppose but that amount has no measureable effect on the 600g system's sg . You only want to dose enough crabonate to raise the dkh by .01 per day and the fresh water can be part ofthe top off to replace evaporation.

[breon]

Second baking it if you want to raise the Ph in the process

[dannyny]

stupid question but how do you guys dissolve your baking soda? i was going to get a shaker bottle and shake it up but maybe u guys like it stirred?

[tmz]

I just stiri t in with a spoon. Any undisoved particles will dissove in the sump water. Dose to a high flow area.

[dannyny]

I just stiri t in with a spoon. Any undisoved particles will dissove in the sump water. Dose to a high flow area.

was planning to pour it into my filter sock/ drain pipe would that be a good idea?

[tmz]

It might precipitate on the sock. I'd put ir in open water away from pump intakes, sources of heat and filtration pads ,socks etc.

[Sport507]

Simple answer, 1 teaspoon of baking soda right out of the box dissolved in RODI will raise 20 gallons of tank water 1 dKH.

[dannyny]

It might precipitate on the sock. I'd put ir in open water away from pump intakes, sources of heat and filtration pads ,socks etc.

i will place it into my display tank directly

[Sensei ClamMan]

Regarding the pool supplies. The pH increaser and Alk are as pure as can be. I have data sheets, although they are sold under many brands, it comes from only a couple sources. Calcium chloride flake is nice and cheap too. I use it all the time, way cheaper than DOW, and yes I do own a pool store but I'm the only one who buys from me for a fish tank.

[Sensei ClamMan]

BTW the pH increaser that pool stores sell is sodium carbonate. It's also called Soda Ash, being that it's already baked.
Oops you were raising Alk weren't you?

[dannyny]

BTW the pH increaser that pool stores sell is sodium carbonate. It's also called Soda Ash, being that it's already baked.
Oops you were raising Alk weren't you?

what's the difference between soda ash and kalkwasser?

[Sensei ClamMan]

Sorry for any confusion.
Soda Ash/sodium carbonate all the same to raise pH (but also raised Alk a little)
Sodium bicarbonate/baking soda is to raise Alk. (but also raiding pH a little)
Kalk is different, its calcium hydroxide for raiding calcium although it has a huge affect on Alkalinity. (raising it)

[bertoni]

Soda ash is sodium carbonate, and it's a high-pH alkalinity supplement. It's the active ingredient in the normal 2-part. :)

Kalk is calcium hydroxide or calcium oxide. It's very high in pH, and adds both calcium and alkalinity to the water. Generally, it's dissolved in fresh water and dripped or dosed slowly into a tank.

There are some article available, if you'd like to do some more reading.

[tmz]

If you wish you can make soda ash by baking regular sodium bicarbonate ,baking soda.
Soda ash ,sodium carbonate has twice the alkalinity baking soda does and will raise ph in normal tank water ;mostly.it's just a transient effect on ph though as CO2 will equilibrate with the water from the air.

[cncguy]

ok, I'm gonna be that guy, but how do you bake it? I need to raise my ph and alk

[rwb500]

y'all need to post this link more!

complete DIY calcium and alkalinity supplement information, by Randy:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/

[bertoni]

The article goes into details. A thin layer on a baking sheet in a 350 degree oven should do the job.

[tmz]

For an hour ;should do.

[fernalfer]

I see i'm bringing this thread back but my alkalinity is 6 dkh and i need to bring this up. I have a 120 gallon tank with a 36 gallon sump with is probably only filled with 16-18 gallons of water.

If i were to dose baking soda to raise it what amount should be used and once mixed can i add right to the diplay tank in front of a powerhead?

[tmz]

Use the calcualtor noted in post #4. Mix it with ro water and add the liquid i slowly to an area of high flow . Raise it 1dkh per day or so.