Meanwell LDD driver: for those who want to dim to 0 using Arduino

[jgwinner]

Wow - and presumably mail YOUR boards to other random people. "Open Source" means of supply. LOL.

== John ==

[rrasco]

That's how they do it. It qualifies your boards as open source, to be sent to whomever, and you'll get some random boards lacking documentation.

[jgwinner]

Understood, I just thought "Open source of supply" was funny.

What they are probably doing is just getting rid of excess parts or something. Reminds me of the time the Stainless Steel Rat got rid of garbage during a strike by mailing it (postal service is free for the government).

== John ==

[MrClean]

Like a Mean Well ELN-60-48P?

Is it more dependant on the driver or the PWM signal?

[O2Surplus]

Like a Mean Well ELN-60-48P?

Is it more dependant on the driver or the PWM signal?

The type or design of the driver is more of a determining factor for true high resolution dimming performance than the PWM signal. The more common ELN series driver will not dim below a 10% duty cycle no matter what PWM frequency is used.

[iced98lx]

Thus, this awesome thread!!!!!

[nemosworld]

placed an order for 2 ldd1000h last night as i saw 2 available on powergate.
but then i check back on the site after my order was complete and did not see the qty reduced, so i expected a call today which i did get.
I was told they are bringing in a 1000+ of both the 1000h and the 700h in february.

Just FYI for anyone looking to buy.

[O2Surplus]

placed an order for 2 ldd1000h last night as i saw 2 available on powergate.
but then i check back on the site after my order was complete and did not see the qty reduced, so i expected a call today which i did get.
I was told they are bringing in a 1000+ of both the 1000h and the 700h in february.

Just FYI for anyone looking to buy.

ONLY 1000? Dang! I bet they'll be back on "backorder" within a week. LOL

[rott]

Speaking of LDD 1000 any one got a few extra to sell or trade for some
Boards I have rrascos 4 driver boards

[iced98lx]

ONLY 1000? Dang! I bet they'll be back on "backorder" within a week. LOL

Lets just say I already have my order of 8 more 700's in so they get sent out as soon as they get in!!

[O2Surplus]

Lets just say I already have my order of 8 more 700's in so they get sent out as soon as they get in!!

LOL- I ordered another 10 LDD-700H to go along with my original order of 20 LDD-1000H, just so I'm not caught wanting more. I figure it's best to jump in now and grab a few before they disappear again.

[MrClean]

OK. I'm ready to play. I just want to condense and confirm the info.

I plan on underdriving multichips with forward voltages of 30-36v and 3.5A max. I will probably have 2 or 3. I will be controlling with a Typhon. I also want to run some fans (5v) for heat sinks and a fan for the cabinet (12v). I want to do this with 1 power cord going to the cabinet.

Other than my LEDs, I'll need:

-a 36v power supply with at least 3.5A. 3A for the LEDs plus a little for the fans and controller.

-step down modules to provide the correct voltage to the fans and the Typhon

-an LDD-1000H for each string

It can't be that simple, can it?

[zachts]

almost MrClean, your powersupply will need to provide more than 3.5amps! 1 amp per LDD-1000H, plus I'd leave head room of at least 2 or 3 extra amps beyond your fans and stuff. you don't want to run the powersupply at 100% capacity. otherwise yep it's about that simple.

[MrClean]

Thanks zachts.

And not to play favorites, thanks to O2Surplus for answering my other question.

I was going to oversize the PS for future use anyway; I'll add even more. I think there is a 10A amp one at work in the throw-away pile. Doink!

So does anyone have a board? And terminals? Drop me a PM.

Now to figure out how to stuff this into my canopy.

[Neoferdina]

Hey guys,

First of all, Awesome discussion and great work by rrasco and O2Surplus! I've been creepin' around this thread quietly for some time now and thought I'd chime in.

rrasco and O2: What about connecting the CTRL/PWM pin of the driver to the ground plane via an optional 10K pull-down resistor? This will pull the pin voltage to ground if the PWM signal is ever lost, which will prevent the driver from failing high (and will instead fail off)? Basically you just need to create a trace with a spot for a resistor to connect to the ground plane. For people without controllers you'd just leave this spot empty; for people with controllers, adding a 10K resistor will add at most 1mA draw per PWM signal to your controller and have the added safety of having the lights fail off.

Just you wait until you're on vacation and the fishsitter accidentally tugs on the PWM cable and you come home to find your LEDs have been on at 100% for a week straight! A few $0.02 resistors could save you thousands in livestock.

My other question to the community: Does anyone have an extra 4-up LDD-H 10cmx5cm board that they could part with? Please PM me if you do! I just need one.

Cheers,

Kevin

[tomservo]

Hey guys,

First of all, Awesome discussion and great work by rrasco and O2Surplus! I've been creepin' around this thread quietly for some time now and thought I'd chime in.

rrasco and O2: What about connecting the CTRL/PWM pin of the driver to the ground plane via an optional 10K pull-down resistor? This will pull the pin voltage to ground if the PWM signal is ever lost, which will prevent the driver from failing high (and will instead fail off)? Basically you just need to create a trace with a spot for a resistor to connect to the ground plane. For people without controllers you'd just leave this spot empty; for people with controllers, adding a 10K resistor will add at most 1mA draw per PWM signal to your controller and have the added safety of having the lights fail off.

Just you wait until you're on vacation and the fishsitter accidentally tugs on the PWM cable and you come home to find your LEDs have been on at 100% for a week straight! A few $0.02 resistors could save you thousands in livestock.

My other question to the community: Does anyone have an extra 4-up LDD-H 10cmx5cm board that they could part with? Please PM me if you do! I just need one.

Cheers,

Kevin


Haha.. I just spent an amount of time I don't want to think about learning to use eagle, and I took your suggestion on my my PCB. I made basically a version of O2Surplus' 5 x LDD board but this one is made for qty 10 in a 5 x 2 configuration for 5 channels at up to 1400ma.

On a side note, I hate the guys who designed the eagle interface just as much as they obviously hate their users.

I'd be happy to put the files up but I have not done any silkscreen labels or so, and I dread learning how.. Wish me luck!

[007Bond]

Haha.. I just spent an amount of time I don't want to think about learning to use eagle, and I took your suggestion on my my PCB. I made basically a version of O2Surplus' 5 x LDD board but this one is made for qty 10 in a 5 x 2 configuration for 5 channels at up to 1400ma.

On a side note, I hate the guys who designed the eagle interface just as much as they obviously hate their users.

I'd be happy to put the files up but I have not done any silkscreen labels or so, and I dread learning how.. Wish me luck!

Luck Tom....still using the 8900?

[tomservo]

007: Sure am! I'm working on a less expensive power supply option, obviously..

Have a question for you guys, which has probably already been covered in this thread, is there any concern about the PWM output nature of these LDD drivers causing bleaching even at low power levels, due to the emitters being driven at full power (though briefly)?

[hifters1]

I am planning on using the 5 channel multichip (3 of them) for my 150. I would like to use the LDD-1000 for each channel (so 15 LDDs). What would you recommend for power supplies? I am looking for a power supply for each chip.

Thanks for you help.

[Neoferdina]

007: Sure am! I'm working on a less expensive power supply option, obviously..

Have a question for you guys, which has probably already been covered in this thread, is there any concern about the PWM output nature of these LDD drivers causing bleaching even at low power levels, due to the emitters being driven at full power (though briefly)?

I'll spare you the elaborate technical explanation (I can go into the details if you wish) but: No, it's not an issue.


I have a question to everyone else using these drivers right now...

I know this has been asked a couple of times through out the thread but there hasn't really been a definitive answer:

Do these drivers run cool enough to be kept in an enclosure? Or is it necessary to add perforations to the enclosure lid?

I'm planning on integrating my PSU, driver and Typhon controller into one enclosure and ideally I would like to keep my set up water tight (after all it will be sitting right next to a lot of water). If you don't think that will fly, would adding perforations to the enclosure over the drivers suffice or do I need to add active cooling?

[megadeth72]

Hey guys,

First of all, Awesome discussion and great work by rrasco and O2Surplus! I've been creepin' around this thread quietly for some time now and thought I'd chime in.

rrasco and O2: What about connecting the CTRL/PWM pin of the driver to the ground plane via an optional 10K pull-down resistor? This will pull the pin voltage to ground if the PWM signal is ever lost, which will prevent the driver from failing high (and will instead fail off)? Basically you just need to create a trace with a spot for a resistor to connect to the ground plane. For people without controllers you'd just leave this spot empty; for people with controllers, adding a 10K resistor will add at most 1mA draw per PWM signal to your controller and have the added safety of having the lights fail off.

Just you wait until you're on vacation and the fishsitter accidentally tugs on the PWM cable and you come home to find your LEDs have been on at 100% for a week straight! A few $0.02 resistors could save you thousands in livestock.

My other question to the community: Does anyone have an extra 4-up LDD-H 10cmx5cm board that they could part with? Please PM me if you do! I just need one.

Cheers,

Kevin

I think this is a good idea, I'm going to add resistors to mine, if I unplug my arduino my drivers go full blast

[zachts]

Sorry, probably a stupid question but I'll pose it anyway, gotta learn somehow right :)

I love this idea, but the electrical engineering of it escapes me, at least this late at night. if the drivers are turned off by connecting the pwm pin to ground wont the resistor keep them turned off all the time? isn't that basically how the typon controls them, by switching a ground path on and off really, really fast via a transistor?

[Neoferdina]

Sorry, probably a stupid question but I'll pose it anyway, gotta learn somehow right :)

I love this idea, but the electrical engineering of it escapes me, at least this late at night. if the drivers are turned off by connecting the pwm pin to ground wont the resistor keep them turned off all the time? isn't that basically how the typon controls them, by switching a ground path on and off really, really fast via a transistor?

This will help...

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/Nergetic/Pull-downresistor_zpsbfb95e1c.png

When the PWM controller (be it Typhon or other) applies a signal to the PWM pin of the driver (for the sake of argument, let's say 10V), there is also a 10V drop across the resistor to ground since the driver and resistor are connected in parallel. If you use a high value resistor (again, let's say 10K ohm), at a 100% signal (Full on) there will be at most 1 mA flowing through the resistor to ground. The driver still only sees 10V as it is unaffected by the presence of the resistor. You controller will feel the extra 1 mA per PWM signal, but that is minimal and the current decreases linearly with the PWM duty cycle. So nothing changes in normal operation.

Where it comes into play is when you unplug the controller from the drivers. If the PWM pin of the driver is left floating or open, the driver defaults to 100%. By adding the resistor between the PWM pin and ground, the PWM pin is now connected only to ground and so the pin voltage gets pulled to ground when the controller is disconnected. Thus the driver defaults off.

[MagicJ]

So, is there a way to hack the existing design to incorporate the resistor - my boards have already been ordered...

[O2Surplus]

So, is there a way to hack the existing design to incorporate the resistor - my boards have already been ordered...

You can hack the original design quite easily by adding a 10k ohm resistor anywhere along the PWM trace. The easiest way would be to use a conventional "through hole" resistor. Solder one end to the PWM pin and the other to the VCC negative pin at each LDD. I'm using SMD (M1206) resistors and will use the same procedure as described above but with a slight twist. I'll solder one end of the resistor directly to the PWM pin pad and then scratch the coating off of the PCB near the other end of the resistor. This "scratch" will expose the ground plane of the PCB. Add a little flux, apply some solder and I'll be done. "Easy as pie"

[iced98lx]

I'll be adding the default-off to my setup, assuming I can't figure out a way to do it with the board I'm using to control them. Good ideas still going in this thread!

[zachts]

neoferdina, thanks for the explanation. Makes sense now. I had forgotten that arduino based circuts output a current to the pwm pin. I think I was staring at a one of the manual dimmers for 12 volt lighting last night.

[rrasco]

The resistor idea is a good one. Will the driver ever be truly 'off' when powered, or does the pull-down resistor give it ever-so-little power that it's really on, just not much? As opposed to 100%? That's what I would expect it to do anyways.

I'll spare you the elaborate technical explanation (I can go into the details if you wish) but: No, it's not an issue.


I have a question to everyone else using these drivers right now...

I know this has been asked a couple of times through out the thread but there hasn't really been a definitive answer:

Do these drivers run cool enough to be kept in an enclosure? Or is it necessary to add perforations to the enclosure lid?

I'm planning on integrating my PSU, driver and Typhon controller into one enclosure and ideally I would like to keep my set up water tight (after all it will be sitting right next to a lot of water). If you don't think that will fly, would adding perforations to the enclosure over the drivers suffice or do I need to add active cooling?

Free air convection cooling. In essence, no they don't need holes. Of course, that will deal more with your environment. I have been running two of them in an enclosed fixture with only passive cooling. My fixture gets warm to the touch, but that's from the LEDs.

[Neoferdina]

The resistor idea is a good one. Will the driver ever be truly 'off' when powered, or does the pull-down resistor give it ever-so-little power that it's really on, just not much? As opposed to 100%? That's what I would expect it to do anyways.


If the signal to the PWM pin is 0%, then the output will be 0%. The resistor won't change this as it is connected to ground and thus there is no potential for the resistor to apply to the PWM pin. In fact, the resistor is more likely to give you a true 0% output than your controller.


Free air convection cooling. In essence, no they don't need holes. Of course, that will deal more with your environment. I have been running two of them in an enclosed fixture with only passive cooling. My fixture gets warm to the touch, but that's from the LEDs.

The plan was to put the drivers, supply and controller into a waterproof enclosure that I have. It's a nice, clear polycarbonate enclosure so you get to see all the wonderful science inside :strooper:. I'll be machining the top of the enclosure for the LCD screen to fit through and for access to the buttons. It'll be fairly fit inside of the enclosure. Not packed, but full. So I've a little concerned how hot it might get.

I may just try it and see. I can always put some fancy decorative perforations in after if it gets too hot.

[MagicJ]

In thinking about the on/off situation if the controller is disabled, it may be better to leave things like they are and just put the power supply on a timer to turn on 5 minutes before the leds start and turn off 5 minutes after they are scheduled to turn off.

This has two advantages:

- the power supply will be completely powered down when not needed
- the leds will still turn on/off generally in line with the normal operating times with the only thing missing being the dimming.

Coming back after being away with the lights off might be just as bad as them being on.

[megadeth72]

that does not fix it for me, I run my leds at 30-70 % depending ont he channel, if my controller is unplugged then they all go to 100 % without a pulldown resistor

[Eud]

Did anyone ever figure out if these LDD's work with Stevesleds ATMega328 based "Aquarium Controller Interface" which converts 0-10V analog from an Apex or ReefKeeper into PWM signals?

Seems like it should work, but it seems like he'd mostly make it work with his drivers which are described as:

Accurate linear dimming is compatible with PWM frequencies from 100 Hz to 5 kHz for PWM duty cycle down to 1%. PWM frequencies up to 50 kHz can be supported for duty cycles greater than 10%.

and I know these LDD drivers only accept PWM input up to 1kHz, so if his aquarium controllers are putting out up to 5kHz, that's no good for these LDD's.

also, think someone could put in a couple of through-holes into the traces on either the rrasco 4-up or the O2Surplus 5-up for those pull down resistors? Then they could be optionally added if someone cared for them to fail off with no PWM input or they could be ignored if you didn't feel like adding the resistors. Or am I understanding it wrong?

[Eud]

Also, to connect the LDD to the board, would something like:

part 310-93-110-41-001000 from http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/273/073N-58368.pdf

work to just snip a few off the strip and solder them to the board for the LDD to plug into or would the full 24-pin block earlier be cheaper and easier?

[O2Surplus]

Also, to connect the LDD to the board, would something like:

part 310-93-110-41-001000 from http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/273/073N-58368.pdf

work to just snip a few off the strip and solder them to the board for the LDD to plug into or would the full 24-pin block earlier be cheaper and easier?

Those interconnects may work just fine, assuming they match the dimensions needed by the pins on the LDD. Personally, I'll be using the chip holders shown in previous posts, as they're perfectly suited to do the job and can be purchased for little $$.
As for PWM dimming- the Steve's interface module can handle a range of PWM frequencies that includes the usable PWM frequency for an LDD.

[007Bond]

The plan was to put the drivers, supply and controller into a waterproof enclosure that I have. It's a nice, clear polycarbonate enclosure so you get to see all the wonderful science inside :strooper:. I'll be machining the top of the enclosure for the LCD screen to fit through and for access to the buttons. It'll be fairly fit inside of the enclosure. Not packed, but full. So I've a little concerned how hot it might get.

I may just try it and see. I can always put some fancy decorative perforations in after if it gets too hot.

Pictures Please ! :)

[Eud]

Those interconnects may work just fine, assuming they match the dimensions needed by the pins on the LDD. Personally, I'll be using the chip holders shown in previous posts, as they're perfectly suited to do the job and can be purchased for little $$.
As for PWM dimming- the Steve's interface module can handle a range of PWM frequencies that includes the usable PWM frequency for an LDD.

Thanks. I looked at the data sheet for the LDD and its obvious that they were designed for one of those chip holders. The pins are even numbered for it on the data sheet. They're like $1 in quantities of 10 from mouser.

Ok on the interface module, just hadn't seen someone report back that it did indeed work.

Funny how the custom made boards end up costing less than off the shelf plastic terminal bars and sockets.

[ef8crxman]

[QUOTE=Eud;21079426]Did anyone ever figure out if these LDD's work with Stevesleds ATMega328 based "Aquarium Controller Interface" which converts 0-10V analog from an Apex or ReefKeeper into PWM signals?

Seems like it should work, but it seems like he'd mostly make it work with his drivers which are described as:



and I know these LDD drivers only accept PWM input up to 1kHz, so if his aquarium controllers are putting out up to 5kHz, that's no good for these LDD's.

I have the Aquarium controller interface from Steves led. I am currently having problems with after my apex neptune goes to 0 volts the leds still are lit up slightly.

[Eud]

I have the Aquarium controller interface from Steves led. I am currently having problems with after my apex neptune goes to 0 volts the leds still are lit up slightly.

Can you measure the voltage that is on the apex output to see if its really 0? Maybe you have some stray. If that is 0 then does Steve's interface still leave them on dimly if you totally remove it from the apex output (which should guarantee 0v from apex, heh)? If theyre still on dimly then maybe try to remove Steve's interface output from the pwm pin on the LDD and put that pin to ground which should guarantee no signal on there and see if they're still dim.
If so, you have a short somewhere, I guess.

[ef8crxman]

I have tried taking out the input from the apex into the aquarium controller and still the LEDs are lit dimly. I am starting to wonder if its the way I am powering the aquarium controller. I have a 5 volt wall wart to power it. I have the wall wart hooked up to the 5 volt input in the aquarium controller and the negative side of the wall wart going to the vin- of the ldd board from rrasco. I also have the ground from the aquarium controller going to the same vin- on the ldd board.

Any suggestions?

[TheFishMan65]

Neoferdina, IMHO I would not put these in an enclosed box. Rrasco said convection cooling and you won't get that in an enclosed box. Perforated holes might be enough. I just finished reading the whole thread and nobody really said how the behave temperature wise. Rrasco said not to hot, but earlier it was stated they run hot. I think it depends on how much voltage is being dropped. Anybody have any number for temperature at different voltage drops across the LDDs?

[rrasco]

I actually don't know how hot mine get. I can't get to them in the fixture. I meant the fixture as a whole didn't heat up too much, and what it does is from the drivers. It is enclosed. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to drill some holes in my housing though. FWIW I'm only using LDD-600L as well.

[zachts]

the LDDs do have a built in thermal shut down to protect them if they get too hot! so worst case you notice your lights blinking on and off after awhile and have to ventalate things.

I'd be more concerned about your controller electronics not being able to tolerate the temperatures that may occur from the LDDs. one solution, but a temporary temperature probe in the enclosure somehow or just a thermometer since your enclosure is clear, and see how hot it getts.

another idea if you see it getting a little too hot for comfort would be to squeeze a small 40 mm fan into the sealed enclosure, this will circulate the hot air and make better use of the walls of the enclosure as heatsinks effectively lowering the interanal temperature many degrees while maintaing a water proof environment.

[shark boy]

I have been using the Recom led drivers ( RCD-24-1.00/W/X3 ) for almost 2 years now. They seem to be about the same driver as the LDD's. Mine will shut down if they get too hot with no problems. When I first installed them I didn't set the voltage on the power supply and was letting 2 extra volts through. Came home after work to find my lights going on and off. Thought I had fried my new LEDs. I fixed the voltage and haven't had any problem with them since.
The real differance is the price. I paid $30 bucks each for the Recoms.

Speaking of the LDDs does anyone have parts for a 4 driver board including the pcb. I would need something for 24V at 700ma
Would be interested in building one as I am about to add more leds

shark boy

[iced98lx]

Got my 5 up's in the mail today, wrong sized silk screen and all ;) Look great.

[tomservo]

Does anyone have a circuit for a thermistor controlled PWM fan speed control? I'm thinking that's what my PCB is lacking; that and a 36 > 12v regulator for the fan.

I've redesigned my board to use a molex mini-FIT connector header, so I can just solder a connector onto the board, that will save some time and effort. The connector pair is ~$3.50 with pins, a bit pricey but not out of the question. Digikey has a similarly priced sealed connector but I don't want the bother of designing an eagle library for it. I already tried that for a similar-to-the-molex connector and it basically wasted like 3 hours.

edit: I just checked and the pin spacing for the molex mini-FIT is exactly the same as the less expensive TE connectivity Val-u-lok series which I have been using previously.

[007Bond]

Does anyone have a circuit for a thermistor controlled PWM fan speed control? I'm thinking that's what my PCB is lacking; that and a 36 > 12v regulator for the fan. I've redesigned my board to use a molex mini-FIT connector header, so I can just solder a connector onto the board, that will save some time and effort. The connector pair is ~$3.50 with pins, a bit pricey but not out of the question. Digikey has a similarly priced sealed connector but I don't want the bother of designing an eagle library for it. I already tried that for a similar-to-the-molex connector and it basically wasted like 3 hours.

Hi Tom, for the 36> 12v I'm planning on one of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/HRD-Series-Converter-DC-24v-36v-48v-step-down-to-12v-3A-/250850583241 with this resistor http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-pcs-3296-W-High-Precision-Variable-Resistor-Potentiometer-Trimmer-203-20k-ohm-/120856881797

What are you using for a PCB---Rick

[tomservo]

Rick, I'm designing my own PCB because I want to be able to use two ldd600's or 700's per channel (per chip/board). I'm maybe just getting carried away but it seems like a good idea to just convert the 36v to 12v and why not put a temperature controlled fan option as well, if I have the space? I've found a couple designs that may suit..

[tomservo]

Too late to edit my post; I spent the last .. bunch of hours re-re-re-re-re doing that PCB.. the end result is I think I'm done. Integrated into the board are 10 LDD drivers; 2 per channel, a 40 -> 12v switching regulator (1A), a thermistor controlled fan speed control (with adjustment trimpot) and a 12 pin header.

I'll post up the files as soon as I'm sure this works, which may need until I build one and test it. I also need to at least print this out and eyeball it, my component placement may be overly ambitious.

Due to lack of space on the board, and my unwillingness to make it bigger because it's a huge pain, I went with linear fan speed control rather than PWM. Plus PWM would have added even more cost. The 12v regulator and fan control come to like $15 in parts I think. Per board... Although there was a design on the forum for one based on a cheap PIC chip; I'll look into programming those as it was low component count.. could be cheaper than the linear one.

[MagicJ]

To answer the question about heat generated by the LDD I ran a small test today.

I connected a 48v power supply, a LDD-500H and one XP-G R5 led. Having one led connected to a 48v power supply is considered to be a worst case scenario. This is the resultant graph:

http://http://www.thereefuge.com.au/attachments/ldd-graph-jpg.

So, only a rise of around 7 degrees Celsius above ambient and well within the product specifications. The LDD was open to the air so the result may be different in an enclosed space but the result was encouraging.

Obviously, having more than 1 led will reduce the amount of heat generated.

[MagicJ]

To answer the question about heat generated by the LDD I ran a small test today.

I connected a 48v power supply, a LDD-500H and one XP-G R5 led. Having one led connected to a 48v power supply is considered to be a worst case scenario. This is the resultant graph:

http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/ff341/ShaneJ05/LDDGraph_zpscd33ba9b.jpg

So, only a rise of around 7 degrees Celsius above ambient and well within the product specifications. The LDD was open to the air so the result may be different in an enclosed space but the result was encouraging.

Obviously, having more than 1 led will reduce the amount of heat generated.

[O2Surplus]

WOW! The worst case scenario and only a 7C rise. That's just silly!:celeb1:

[chema]

Concerning heating, another issue to take into account is not only voltage but the difference between the current delivered by the power supply and the limit of the LDD (or the limit of the total number of LDDs connected to the power supply). The greater that difference, the greater the warming. I have checked that out.

Also, I would light to ask another question. May be I just didn´t find it, but, anybody knows the current needed by each PWM connection between the arduino and a LDD? In other words, what is the limit of LDDs that an arduino can manage?

Regards

[iced98lx]

That's a great test to run.

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh600/chrisuthe/Controller%20Project/2013-01-17201416_zps2fefe09b.jpg Things are coming along well here.

[chema]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I'm working with the chip atmega 328 (arduino 1)

[O2Surplus]

I've been experimenting with some 50 watt RGB led's lately, so I drew up this Pcb to work with them. It features 3 LDD-H and has the PWM pull down resistors included. The build files and a parts list are attached.

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/MeanWell3upLDDforRGB_zps1a137e2f.png

[Eud]

O2Surplus! That's great! It's what I want. Is that a 5x5 board?

[O2Surplus]

O2Surplus! That's great! It's what I want. Is that a 5x5 board?

Close - It's 48mm X 66mm. That's the smallest I could make and still keep all the components on the same side. Just order the Pcb using the 5cm X 10cm pricing option and you'll be fine.

[Eud]

Close - It's 48mm X 66mm. That's the smallest I could make and still keep all the components on the same side. Just order the Pcb using the 5cm X 10cm pricing option and you'll be fine.

Thanks.

When I get my order of them I'll post here because I'll surely have a bunch of boards left over since it looks like you have to order in 10 packs.

[bhazard451]

I have about 8 boards of rasco's 4 driver design left if anyone need some. I'm about to post it in the used selling section.

[Eud]

Close - It's 48mm X 66mm. That's the smallest I could make and still keep all the components on the same side. Just order the Pcb using the 5cm X 10cm pricing option and you'll be fine.

Did you hide that resistor under the LDD, then? I figured it would have to go on the other side.

Also, do they trim the board to fit your layout or will it arrive 5x10 and I have to saw it?

[O2Surplus]

Did you hide that resistor under the LDD, then? I figured it would have to go on the other side.

Also, do they trim the board to fit your layout or will it arrive 5x10 and I have to saw it?

The resistor is a tiny M1206, so it won't interfere with mounting the LDD.(The LDD has soft potting epoxy on the bottom) + if you mount the LDD to an "open frame" chip carrier that will also create extra room for the resistor.

The PCB's will come pre-cut to the dimensions that they were designed with. There's no further cutting necessary.

[nemosworld]

I think you guys are doing an excellent job with these board designs, with that said, I was wondering if anyone considered a board with pull down resistors or something else so that we can run fans off the same power supply, i was thinking a 10x10 board with 4 drivers on one side and the step downs and connectors on the other side. hope i explained that right.

[O2Surplus]

I think you guys are doing an excellent job with these board designs, with that said, I was wondering if anyone considered a board with pull down resistors or something else so that we can run fans off the same power supply, i was thinking a 10x10 board with 4 drivers on one side and the step downs and connectors on the other side. hope i explained that right.

I try to integrate 12V regulators into most of my driver PCB's as it only costs about $.80 to do so. The problem is- The LDD-H can handle voltages much higher than most 12V regulators can manage. It's easier, cheaper, and more reliable to add a separate DC/DC step down converter to your led build than to try and integrate it all into one PCB design.
Believe me- I've attempted what your proposing and when something goes wrong- It gets ugly.
Here's an example- I crammed 6 CAT4101's, a 12V reg, a 5V reg, and a full blown Arduino w/ ds1307 RTC into one Pcb. It all worked great until one misplaced connection was made and "POOF! $70 went up in smoke!

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/6UPSmartyCat-1.png

[tomservo]

So here's my PCB design for 10 x LDD arranged in 5 channels (x 2 LDD per). The traces and all are designed for up to 1A per LDD if the board is 1oz copper (typical).

This board is UNTESTED.. I am putting it up for review and to share. I suggest waiting until O2Surplus has at least looked over it before you send any off for production.

This board has a 42v (max) -> 12V switching regulator, and a linear fan speed control with trimpot. All outputs to a 12 pin val-u-lok connector and inputs are through the usual 2-pin terminal strips that O2 used on his. The switching regulator is available in a high voltage version good to 60v if one was looking to do a higher voltage version (up to 52v or whatever the LDD is good for). Digikey even has some of the HV ones in stock but they're about twice the price @ $3.22 ea.

The switching regulator is rated to 1A, which should be more than sufficient as the intention is to pair 1 board with 1 light (and presumably 1 fan).

I'll copy a parts list for this later, as well.

[iced98lx]

would be good to pass a PWM to the fan for speed control vs the trimpot, if you wanted. You could then ramp up the fan based on light % values or other programmatic values. Just a suggestion :)

[O2Surplus]

OK- I'm looking it over now.

[O2Surplus]

Tomservo-

I looked it over and made a few tweaks. I added a ground plane to the top & bottom layers( using the "Polygon" command) and eliminated all the extra ground traces. I also re-sized and relocated a few traces. It passes the Itead DRC as is, but spend some more time with it and tweak it to your liking.

[Eud]

O2Surplus,

I'm playing with modifying your board a bit to use 3.5mm connectors instead of 3.81mm just because they're only 20 cents from iteadstudio instead of close to $1 from Mouser for the phoenix ones.

80 cents each doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but it ends up being quite a few dollars if I bought enough of them to distribute to folks when I mail out the extra boards I'll get from iteadstudio. Or is there another place you like to go to for components? Mouser also sells those 1206 resistors for like $1.50 each which seems kind of high too, but I'd been planning to just order all of the bits from them because they're the only in-stock source for the LDD drivers at the moment, even though they're expensive.

Do you think it's a bad idea to use the 3.5mm ones?

[O2Surplus]

O2Surplus,

I'm playing with modifying your board a bit to use 3.5mm connectors instead of 3.81mm just because they're only 20 cents from iteadstudio instead of close to $1 from Mouser for the phoenix ones.

80 cents each doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but it ends up being quite a few dollars if I bought enough of them to distribute to folks when I mail out the extra boards I'll get from iteadstudio. Or is there another place you like to go to for components? Mouser also sells those 1206 resistors for like $1.50 each which seems kind of high too, but I'd been planning to just order all of the bits from them because they're the only in-stock source for the LDD drivers at the moment, even though they're expensive.

Do you think it's a bad idea to use the 3.5mm ones?

I used the 3.81mm screw headers on that board because I'd scored 400 of them on FleaBay last year. IIRC, I paid less than $.05 each. I source most of my parts through DigiKey, but I also use http://www.findchips.com/avail?part= just to make sure that I'm not getting hosed. Do a search for yourself, and I'm sure you can locate cheaper sources, paying $1.50 for a 1206 resistor is akin to highway robbery.

[Eud]

OK. I'll look around. I'll also ask the guys at work who know about such things.

[Neoferdina]

Thanks MagicJ for that info. Super helpful. I'll try to machine up my enclosure this weekend and see how things go in the enclosed space.

I think you guys are doing an excellent job with these board designs, with that said, I was wondering if anyone considered a board with pull down resistors or something else so that we can run fans off the same power supply, i was thinking a 10x10 board with 4 drivers on one side and the step downs and connectors on the other side. hope i explained that right.

As mentioned previously, I'd do a separate DC/DC step down off the main board. They're cheap off eBay. From experience they have a tendency to go whacky on you, especially if you're not paying attention.

What I'm doing (and this might be a good mod for the future boards as well) is to put the DC/DC step down off the driver board (I'll be putting mine right in the hood) and control the input power to it using a PN2222 transistor on the driver board. What I'm doing here is using channel 1 (I'm calling the first channel that turns on in the morning and last to turn off at night channel 1 - ie. royal blues) to control power to the fans. If you connect the base of the of the transistor to the Vout,+ of the driver through a high value resistor (5K to 10K) and connect the collector to the -ve pin of the DC/DC step down and the emitter to ground, the transistor acts like a switch (since it will be in saturation).

To translate this into English, when the driver is dimmed to "off"/0% there is no voltage applied to the Vout,+ pin - thus the fans are off. But as soon as the driver is dimmed on, even the slightest bit, the transistor "switches on" and turns on power to the fans. This way the fans only come on when the LEDs are on and you don't need to waste a channel on your controller and extra time programming in order to control your fans. The PN2222 transistors are about $0.15 ea... much cheaper than all the fancy fan controllers people use.

[tomservo]

Sorry, whacky double post..

[tomservo]

You really ought to look somewhere other than mouser, they are famous for having terrible pricing to individuals / small orders.. They're like auto parts stores. Try Digikey, or ebay for some of that stuff. Digikey is in minnesota and they ship out very quickly and for low money. (Those $1.50 resistors are $.18 at digikey)

O2: Thanks, I couldn't really figure out how to do a ground plane, so this is obviously much better. It's good to have someone else look these over, and with the different layout I noticed I hadn't made the shared channel 4 & 5 out- trace as big as it ought to be - fixed, now. Also, after reviewing 2 pin terminal block pricing, I changed the board to use an 8 terminal block from digikey at only a slightly higher price but I can have it tomorrow instead of in 2-10 weeks from china. Do I need to do anything to connect the ground plane to the ground terminals?

iced98: The fan speed is controlled by temperature, I think this is a better solution than controlling it by an arbitrary PWM value, but it would be easy enough to change.

[Eud]

Well, looks like I can get 100 of those 1206 resistors for $4, 100 of the 3.81mm headers for $16, and 20 of the machined pin socket adapters for $8 all shipped from China in 2 weeks, heh. not bad. Glad you suggested to look there instead of where I was looking.

[Eud]

Neoferdina, darn you, that sounds like a good idea too, but I think I'm going to pull the trigger on this design instead of waiting for O2Surplus to make another mod to a board to add what you're suggesting.

[Eud]

OK. I ordered parts and the RGB boards that O2Surplus just posted. Will post back when they arrive with pics. 8)

[zachts]

octoparts is a great search engine also for comparing part cost and availabity. I recently saved $5 bucks on an order for one part even after shipping over digikey by ordering from arrow electronics for one part out of my order. It pays to shop around.

Ocotoparts will tell you everyone selling LDDs and who acualy has the ones you want in stock!

[Neoferdina]

Neoferdina, darn you, that sounds like a good idea too, but I think I'm going to pull the trigger on this design instead of waiting for O2Surplus to make another mod to a board to add what you're suggesting.

:frog: You can still implement it. You can just free-form solder the resistor and transistor in place. They don't necessarily need to be on the board.

[Eud]

:frog: You can still implement it. You can just free-form solder the resistor and transistor in place. They don't necessarily need to be on the board.

Ok. I will give that a try. I think I'm also going to take the outputs and run them through a double row of terminal blocks to let me put a big, 5W 1 ohm resistor on each string so I can easily measure current in each string in situ.

[rott]

this is off topic would anyone have a few spare regulator 7810 they would part with?

[Eud]

Think I could sneak 15 of the 3V Rebel ES royal blue or neutral whites on one of the LDD's with a 48v power supply? I seem to remember reading that it needs about 3v of difference between the supply and the load.

Data Sheet for the Rebel ES color is http://www.philipslumileds.com/uploads/265/DS68-pdf and it shows about exactly 3v at 700mA and 3.1v at 1000mA for the LXML-PR02 royal blues that StevesLEDs sells, for instance.

The LXML-PR01 royal blues are more like 3.25v at 700mA and 3.4v at 1000mA, so I know I wouldn't be able to do 15 of those.

[O2Surplus]

this is off topic would anyone have a few spare regulator 7810 they would part with?

I've got some, but they're the SMD version-http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/UA7810CKTTR/296-20797-1-ND/1204661
I might have a couple in the more conventional "through-hole" version, but I'll have to look for them later tonight.

[rott]

i am looking for the through hole ones only need 5

[O2Surplus]

double post

[O2Surplus]

i am looking for the through hole ones only need 5

Well if you can't find them locally, MOUSER's got over 800 of them in stock for only $.68 Each. Order them now, and get them via USPS in a couple of days.
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=BjlCn29Da5%252bMiPdLYxsq0A%3d%3d&utm_source=findchips&utm_medium=aggregator&utm_campaign=512-KA7810AETU&utm_term=KA7810AE

[rott]

no where local and was trying to save the $5 shipping

[nemosworld]

Thanks MagicJ for that info. Super helpful. I'll try to machine up my enclosure this weekend and see how things go in the enclosed space.



As mentioned previously, I'd do a separate DC/DC step down off the main board. They're cheap off eBay. From experience they have a tendency to go whacky on you, especially if you're not paying attention.

What I'm doing (and this might be a good mod for the future boards as well) is to put the DC/DC step down off the driver board (I'll be putting mine right in the hood) and control the input power to it using a PN2222 transistor on the driver board. What I'm doing here is using channel 1 (I'm calling the first channel that turns on in the morning and last to turn off at night channel 1 - ie. royal blues) to control power to the fans. If you connect the base of the of the transistor to the Vout,+ of the driver through a high value resistor (5K to 10K) and connect the collector to the -ve pin of the DC/DC step down and the emitter to ground, the transistor acts like a switch (since it will be in saturation).

To translate this into English, when the driver is dimmed to "off"/0% there is no voltage applied to the Vout,+ pin - thus the fans are off. But as soon as the driver is dimmed on, even the slightest bit, the transistor "switches on" and turns on power to the fans. This way the fans only come on when the LEDs are on and you don't need to waste a channel on your controller and extra time programming in order to control your fans. The PN2222 transistors are about $0.15 ea... much cheaper than all the fancy fan controllers people use.

awesome idea, I plan to build an adruino controller for my led build, adding a temp sensor for the fans will be good too. so with your plan the fan gets power, and then with the temp sensor, the fan only runs when needed.
this would be similar to the AI's. now i just need to learn adruino, I only want a led controller, don't need all the bells and whistles, plus i want itto be touch screen. This is an awesome Thread!

[zachts]

this is off topic would anyone have a few spare regulator 7810 they would part with?

no 10s left, 6,8,12s though. try here http://www.thaishine.com/servlet/StoreFront
supper cheap and delivered within the week usually (2days last time I ordered)

[Whitebeam]

Anyone got a 5 driver board going spare?

Peter

[rrasco]

Well if you can't find them locally, MOUSER's got over 800 of them in stock for only $.68 Each. Order them now, and get them via USPS in a couple of days.
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=BjlCn29Da5%252bMiPdLYxsq0A%3d%3d&utm_source=findchips&utm_medium=aggregator&utm_campaign=512-KA7810AETU&utm_term=KA7810AE

I love Mouser. Some stuff can be more expensive, like the LDDs, but they are so close to me I get stuff via Brown Ground next morning if you order before 8PM. Worth it to me, most of the time.

I need to just start stocking up on lots from overseas though, so I have everything on hand.

[Eud]

So what do folks think about 15 of the 3v Rebels on one LDD with 48v power supply? Doable, or not so much?

[O2Surplus]

So what do folks think about 15 of the 3v Rebels on one LDD with 48v power supply? Doable, or not so much?

That should be doable. Just remember that you can always crank up the voltage on the MeanWell supply. Most are adjustable +/- 10%, so you should be able to get at least 52 volts out of it.
I've got one that I modded a bit, so that it now adjusts from 16V to 52V :celeb1:

[Eud]

That should be doable. Just remember that you can always crank up the voltage on the MeanWell supply. Most are adjustable +/- 10%, so you should be able to get at least 52 volts out of it.
I've got one that I modded a bit, so that it now adjusts from 16V to 52V :celeb1:

Thanks. Which one did you mod? I'd been looking at the SE-350-48 which also seems to be the same as the NES-350-48. Both have voltage adjustable up to 56. Specs seem similar. /shrug

[chema]

So what do folks think about 15 of the 3v Rebels on one LDD with 48v power supply? Doable, or not so much?

I have 5 OCWs (therefore 15 Rebels) connected through a single LDD 700 to a Meanwell HLG, and it works nicely.

[tjalfe]

Hi. Im thinking of using the LDD-1000H with 5 pieces 10w led for a project.
They need 9-12v and 1000ma. If i understand it i need a 48V 1.5A power supply. Correct??

[Promazine]

Boards arrived :)

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff201/Promazine/37726DE3-ABC2-420D-B322-077D70497C73-18087-00000CEB85AC7540.jpg

Soldered on the sockets and terminals....

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff201/Promazine/E161959D-1EA6-481E-BE45-587E368A5B61-18087-00000CEB91243921.jpg

Plugged in the drivers....

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff201/Promazine/9C8D9EE3-6F6A-4036-9D98-A53194897FA0-18087-00000CEB978323E2.jpg

Big thanks to 02Surplus for the board design :)

Just got to finish the rest of the build now!

[rrasco]

Hi. Im thinking of using the LDD-1000H with 5 pieces 10w led for a project.
They need 9-12v and 1000ma. If i understand it i need a 48V 1.5A power supply. Correct??

You are using 5 LDD-1000H or 5 LEDs? 5 LDD-1000H is 5A, so for that, I would shoot for about 7-8A power supply. If you are only going to use one LDD-1000H, then the 1.5A would suffice.

[007Bond]

Pro, see you have 350 700 & 1000's what are you running? Nice pics, keep em coming please.










/

[007Bond]

Fellow called today from Powergate, said 1000-H are on BO till April :confused:

[O2Surplus]

Fellow called today from Powergate, said 1000-H are on BO till April :confused:

That sucks! I'm still waiting for mine, as my invoice says that they'll be shipped January 30th. I really hope I don't get the same phone call that you did.

[Promazine]

Pro, see you have 350 700 & 1000's what are you running? Nice pics, keep em coming please.

/

I have cool and warm Cree xte's, royal blue Cree xte's, blue Cree xpe's, luxeon rebel cyans and some led group buy 430nm uv's, 405nm uv's, 660nm reds and 495nm turquoise.
Really wanted some LDD500H's, but mouser were out of stock - so gonna run the uv's and turquoise well under max on the 350s
Fingers crossed it should all come together and pack a colourfull punch :beer:

[007Bond]

Ya I hope not. I ordered I think monday. The guy has left me two voice mails, wanting to know if I still wanted them. I haven't called him back yet, but I'm going to ask what happened to the 1000 coming in for February. At least they are good in their follow up.

[sfsuphysics]

Wow what happened with these? Holy grail realized and everyone jumped on buying them? I'd think they'd be plunked out of a Chinese factory and on a slow boat to the US, but expecting more in April? Yikes!

[Kawi9_cf]

Hey guys I am currently in the process of designing my led build. I am wanting to use the LDD-H drivers. I just need a little help. Its a 36 LED build plus four moonlights. I am was thinking I would go with a 48v 5A power supply and have 3-4 700ma drivers running the main LEDs and have a 350 ma driver for the four moonlights. My main question is will it be okay to have 48v going to the 350ma driver with only 4 LEDs in the string. If not what do you reccomend ? Any advice at all on this build would be very helpful this is my first LED build.

Thanks!
-Nick

[Eud]

Hey guys I am currently in the process of designing my led build. I am wanting to use the LDD-H drivers. I just need a little help. Its a 36 LED build plus four moonlights. I am was thinking I would go with a 48v 5A power supply and have 3-4 700ma drivers running the main LEDs and have a 350 ma driver for the four moonlights. My main question is will it be okay to have 48v going to the 350ma driver with only 4 LEDs in the string. If not what do you reccomend ? Any advice at all on this build would be very helpful this is my first LED build.

Thanks!
-Nick

The datasheet addresses just this issue. The answer is they're less efficient, but they run fine. Check out the graphs on the last page of

http://www.meanwell.com/search/LDD-H/LDD-H-spec.pdf

You can subtract the efficiency from 1 and multiply that by the voltage and current to get a guess at how much heat they will be dropping.

Looks like 350mA and four 3v LEDs for a total of 12v is 90% efficient when driven by a 48v supply, so 0.1*12v*0.350mA = 0.42 Watts wasted which isn't too bad.

[hifters1]

I had placed an order on Tuesday and they called back stating it would be at least March. I may bite the bullet and order from Mouser.

[nemosworld]

That sucks! I'm still waiting for mine, as my invoice says that they'll be shipped January 30th. I really hope I don't get the same phone call that you did.

mine was the same, but they did not bill me yet.

[Kawi9_cf]

The datasheet addresses just this issue. The answer is they're less efficient, but they run fine. Check out the graphs on the last page of

http://www.meanwell.com/search/LDD-H/LDD-H-spec.pdf

You can subtract the efficiency from 1 and multiply that by the voltage and current to get a guess at how much heat they will be dropping.

Looks like 350mA and four 3v LEDs for a total of 12v is 90% efficient when driven by a 48v supply, so 0.1*12v*0.350mA = 0.42 Watts wasted which isn't too bad.


Thanks for the link Eud I don't know how I overlooked that. I have looked at the data sheet 3 times and I never noticed the 3rd page I'm not sure how I missed it lol.

[Kawi9_cf]

Hey guys does anyone have an ldd-h 5-up board I could get. I only need one or two.

[tjalfe]

You are using 5 LDD-1000H or 5 LEDs? 5 LDD-1000H is 5A, so for that, I would shoot for about 7-8A power supply. If you are only going to use one LDD-1000H, then the 1.5A would suffice.

Thanks. 1 ldd-1000h and 5 led. :)

Is there a place in the eu they sell the ldd-1000h other than mouser??

[Eud]

Ordered my LDD-1000H and 700H from Mouser today since from the recent posts on this thread it is sounding like they're rapidly turning into unobtainium if PowerGate is now talking about April deliveries, and I can't seem to see them in stock anywhere else.

Only 36 of the 1000H left at Mouser, and they say that they have 90 more on order with a 12 week factory lead time. 12 weeks from what, I don't know, but they're estimating shipping on 2/18.

[O2Surplus]

I received my latest batch of Pcb's from ITeadStudio last night. Funny thing was- UPS sent me an email to confirm delivery before ITead even bothered to notify me that they'd shipped LOL.

Here's the 3up Pcb for my RGB leds-

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/LDDPcbs002_zps98de04a7.jpg

Here it is fully assembled-

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/LDDPcbs004_zps54e754ef.jpg

Here's my 4up LDD sub Pcb for my "Typhon LED controller"

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/LDDPcbs003_zps93b8c679.jpg

Here's the same Pcb fully assembled-

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/LDDPcbs005_zps6b62a997.jpg

And finally, a few shots of the 4up LDD bolted up and connected to my "Typhon"

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/LDDPcbs006_zpsc935114d.jpg

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/LDDPcbs008_zpsdef8f686.jpg

All in all it works great. I found a few instances where components interfere with each other, "fit wise", but they're no big deal to work around. I'm going to revise the design of the two Pcb's a bit to correct the problems, and post them on this forum for everybody who may want to build one.

[rrasco]

Thanks. 1 ldd-1000h and 5 led. :)

Is there a place in the eu they sell the ldd-1000h other than mouser??

Only EU place I know of it Newark. Not sure if they carry these drivers.

[rrasco]

O2! Where did you get those tactile switches with the long buttons? I have been looking for some forever.

[O2Surplus]

O2! Where did you get those tactile switches with the long buttons? I have been looking for some forever.

Bought a Bazillion of em' from a seller on Fleabay last year. Had I known you where looking for them, I could have sent them with that shield I gave ya, :headwalls:

[nemosworld]

I received my latest batch of Pcb's from ITeadStudio last night. Funny thing was- UPS sent me an email to confirm delivery before ITead even bothered to notify me that they'd shipped LOL.

Here's the 3up Pcb for my RGB leds-

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/LDDPcbs002_zps98de04a7.jpg

Here it is fully assembled-

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/LDDPcbs004_zps54e754ef.jpg

Here's my 4up LDD sub Pcb for my "Typhon LED controller"

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/LDDPcbs003_zps93b8c679.jpg

Here's the same Pcb fully assembled-

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/LDDPcbs005_zps6b62a997.jpg

And finally, a few shots of the 4up LDD bolted up and connected to my "Typhon"

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/LDDPcbs006_zpsc935114d.jpg

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/LDDPcbs008_zpsdef8f686.jpg

All in all it works great. I found a few instances where components interfere with each other, "fit wise", but they're no big deal to work around. I'm going to revise the design of the two Pcb's a bit to correct the problems, and post them on this forum for everybody who may want to build one.
Patiently waiting.

[Eud]

I received my latest batch of Pcb's from ITeadStudio last night. Funny thing was- UPS sent me an email to confirm delivery before ITead even bothered to notify me that they'd shipped LOL.

Here's the 3up Pcb for my RGB leds-

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/LDDPcbs002_zps98de04a7.jpg

Here it is fully assembled-

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/LDDPcbs004_zps54e754ef.jpg


Nice. I'm waiting for my order of 3up boards to arrive from iteadstudio. Sunny emailed to say that they would ship before the holidays coming up, but I didn't pay the extra for UPS, so I think they'll come on the slow boat.

[Eud]

BTW, O2Surplus, did you use the 24 pin IC socket adapters to put your LDD drivers on this 3-up board? I didn't do a detailed check of the dimensions of the socket adapters, but now that I see how tight those drivers are, I'm a bit worried.

[O2Surplus]

BTW, O2Surplus, did you use the 24 pin IC socket adapters to put your LDD drivers on this 3-up board? I didn't do a detailed check of the dimensions of the socket adapters, but now that I see how tight those drivers are, I'm a bit worried. Don't worry, the chip holders are under there, along with the 1206 package resistors. It all fits fine.


Here's the board with the LDD's removed.

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/3upLDDRGB001_zpsb5d758a6.jpg

[Eud]

Nice! I see the little 103 on those resistors. I'm really glad you made this board, and I hope my solder turns out as nice. I'm going to sneak it downstairs to the electronics lab here and use their schmancy Metcal soldering stations, so maybe that will work much better than my cruddy old Black and Decker.

[MrClean]

Sweet.

I may have to add a string of blues to use up the 3rd socket when I get mine. Eud, who is a prince, is sharing one from his order with me.

[O2Surplus]

Nice! I see the little 103 on those resistors. I'm really glad you made this board, and I hope my solder turns out as nice. I'm going to sneak it downstairs to the electronics lab here and use their schmancy Metcal soldering stations, so maybe that will work much better than my cruddy old Black and Decker.

A little practice time is all it takes.Soldering SMD components can be a bit tedious when you're dealing with IC's that have fine pitch pin spacing, but you can get down right lazy with other components and still get good looking results. I recently found and purchased some SMD soldering paste that melts at 130C! I use the needle applicator to apply the paste to all the solder pads, place all the components by hand, and then use an adjustable heat gun to melt the solder. I'd use a modified toaster oven, but my wife doesn't appreciate the smell of solder fumes as much as I do. LOL

[rrasco]

For SMD, at least resistors and caps, I put a small bump on one pad of the component, get tweasers and hold the component close, heat up the bump from the previous step, when ready, set the component in place and remove heat. Hold it there until it cools into place. Then you can easily solder the other side of the component. Goes pretty quick if you tin the pads and run down the assembly all at once. ICs are a bit trickier as O2 said, cuz the pins are so close together.

[O2Surplus]

Sweet! I just got an Email notification that my order of (20) LDD 1000-H just shipped from PowerGate LLC! Now I can get busy!

[Eud]

Sweet! I just got an Email notification that my order of (20) LDD 1000-H just shipped from PowerGate LLC! Now I can get busy!

They have them in stock? What happened to April? I just paid almost $12 each for them from Mouser

[O2Surplus]

They have them in stock? What happened to April? I just paid almost $12 each for them from Mouser

I just checked their site. They're showing 58 in stock!

http://www.powergatellc.com/mean-well-ldd-1000h-dc-dc-converter.html

[rrasco]

I think he ordered them a while back and was waiting for them. I can't remember yesterday though, so I could stand corrected.

[megadeth72]

when I repair stuff with chips that gotta be replaced, like arduino nano's that I fry, I just glob the soldier on and use some copper braid to clean up all the shorts, end result is clean and it looks like I know what I'm doing

[Eud]

when I repair stuff with chips that gotta be replaced, like arduino nano's that I fry, I just glob the soldier on and use some copper braid to clean up all the shorts, end result is clean and it looks like I know what I'm doing

Yep. My officemate just showed me a bet he won years ago when he bet someone he could solder on some crazy fine pitch IC to a board. He just blobbed it all on then used desolder braid to clean up the bridges and shorts. Looks pretty good and worked.

[O2Surplus]

I think he ordered them a while back and was waiting for them. I can't remember yesterday though, so I could stand corrected.

Awhile back is right! December 7th to be exact.

[007Bond]

Bought a Bazillion of em' from a seller on Fleabay last year. Had I known you where looking for them, I could have sent them with that shield I gave ya, :headwalls:

O2, What is the technical name? I tried to find some also, but didn't know what to search for. I'll try ebay again if I know what to call them. Thanks---Rick

[O2Surplus]

when I repair stuff with chips that gotta be replaced, like arduino nano's that I fry, I just glob the soldier on and use some copper braid to clean up all the shorts, end result is clean and it looks like I know what I'm doing

To be honest- Soldering really fine pitched IC's to newly made Pcb's is really easy. You don't need to "add" any additional solder to make a good joint. There's plenty of solder already in the solder mask to do the job. Just apply plenty of rosin, line up and hold the chip in the proper position, and simply "rake" the solder tip across the pins and pads. The solder will re-flow to the pin and make the connection. I can solder an Atmega 328-AU in less than 20 seconds using this method, but I've had a lot of practice :lol:

[rott]

just ordered 12 LDD-1000h drivers I was ready to buy from the Chinese whole sale sites

[tomservo]

I placed my PCB orders the other day; I expect it will be a while as I opted for cheap shipping.. Now I realize I need to order 50 LDD's to go with them..

[007Bond]

Tom, what are you building with 10 ldd boards? Are you shooting for 1400ma area @ channel?

[tomservo]

My friend has a fish store in his basement, and he needs some lights.. Yeah I was wanting to be capable of full power on a 5 channel multichip; I may end up pairing a 600 and 700 or two 600's. He only needs 3 lights right now, but I want to replace the power setup on mine with these as they are dimmable to 0; mine will just use 5 LDDs for now, or maybe even 5 500's.

The extra board will probably see service as 5 lights on freshwater tanks, or so.

My friend has around 4000 gallons of tanks in his basement, mostly freshwater but he's getting into SW and really loving it.

[007Bond]

wow that is a set up 4000 gal in a basement. Sounds like a full time job. Guess the more automation the better.
I'd like to get closer to 1400ma power, can you run two LDD's in series to push above a H-1000?

[zachts]

I'd like to get closer to 1400ma power, can you run two LDD's in series to push above a H-1000?

and that is the million dollar question to which I have been patiently awaiting a definive answere on! :D

I'd like to see 2000mA for xml's.......

[O2Surplus]

and that is the million dollar question to which I have been patiently awaiting a definive answere on! :D

I'd like to see 2000mA for xml's.......

I'll parallel drive 3 700ma LDD's into a 100 watt led and see what happens. I figure if that works- driving a couple of 1000's together into the same load should work too. I'll give it a try and report back tomorrow. My 20 LDD 1000-H will arrive Tuesday and I'll re-run the same experiment with them just to be sure.

[MagicJ]

I'll parallel drive 3 700ma LDD's into a 100 watt led and see what happens. I figure if that works- driving a couple of 1000's together into the same load should work too. I'll give it a try and report back tomorrow. My 20 LDD 1000-H will arrive Tuesday and I'll re-run the same experiment with them just to be sure.

Seeing as you will doing some testing :) can you also see what current the LDD dimming circuit draws.

I tested one today and I hope I have done something wrong as I got the following results:

100% PWM - 8mA
1% PWM - 52mA :eek2:

If these results are correct, and I hope they are not, then they will draw too much current for an Arduino pin and 8 will draw too much for the Arduino in total.

Please tell me I have done something wrong.

:beer:

[megadeth72]

Seeing as you will doing some testing :) can you also see what current the LDD dimming circuit draws.

I tested one today and I hope I have done something wrong as I got the following results:

100% PWM - 8mA
1% PWM - 52mA :eek2:

If these results are correct, and I hope they are not, then they will draw too much current for an Arduino pin and 8 will draw too much for the Arduino in total.

Please tell me I have done something wrong.

:beer:

I'm running 5 of them right now without any trouble, along with a lcd screen, relays and 3 temp probes

[zachts]

I'll parallel drive 3 700ma LDD's into a 100 watt led and see what happens. I figure if that works- driving a couple of 1000's together into the same load should work too. I'll give it a try and report back tomorrow. My 20 LDD 1000-H will arrive Tuesday and I'll re-run the same experiment with them just to be sure.

when your checking make sure to check the voltage and current being output by each of the 3 LDDs to see if they are sharing the load equally or if one is taking the weight of it.

Thanks!!

[megadeth72]

the leds draw all of the power available, so that's not an issue

[O2Surplus]

I did some testing this morning and came up with a few answers-

1.) You cannot parallel drive the LDD's. The drivers will not be damaged (whew!) if you try, but you're not going to get any light from an led. (Sorry TomServo ):sad1:
My best guess is- This is typical behavior for a buck regulator style of Led driver.
If you really want more than 1000ma per channel, go with a design using multiple CAT4101's, an LM3409, or a larger commercial driver rated to what you want.

2.) The current draw for the PWM pin is 5ma @ 100% on average. Because of this, I would not recommend driving more than 6 LDD's per arduino pin. 40ma is the maximum per I/O pin according to the folks at Arduino CC.

:reading:
Summary
Microcontroller ATmega328
Operating Voltage 5V
Input Voltage (recommended) 7-12V
Input Voltage (limits) 6-20V
Digital I/O Pins 14 (of which 6 provide PWM output)
Analog Input Pins 6
DC Current per I/O Pin 40 mA
DC Current for 3.3V Pin 50 mA
Flash Memory 32 KB (ATmega328) of which 0.5 KB used by bootloader
SRAM 2 KB (ATmega328)
EEPROM 1 KB (ATmega328)
Clock Speed 16 MHz

[007Bond]

O2, Thank you for the information. Looks like MeanWell needs a recommendation for the next gen. LDD's 12-14-16-18 and 2000 series

[zachts]

Darn, thanks O2.

Back to the drawing board. I may have to try the sure electronics drivers for over 1 amp. It appears they sum them to get a 1400mA version http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=073-054
so in theory you could go higher, but maybe not using the stand offs, I doubt the traces could handle more than 1.4 amps.
I havent used this model but they seem to just be two of the 800mA versions stacked together. If that's the case you can buy the cheap 1/2 watt version and add reistors to get them to output more. (done this and it works) all the rest of the components seem the same on the board i've used they just add more resistors.......

[007Bond]

Zachts, I just looked at the link. They say output v o 7.3. What leds are you using

[O2Surplus]

Sorry for the bad news. I tried running 3 LDD-700H, with all their connections wired in parallel into a single BridgeLux BXRA-C4500 (50 watt) LED with no luck. It seems that, however the LDD is wired internally, such drive conditions cause the LDD to go into protection mode. This situation sucks! I was hoping that this little driver would be more flexible, and work in such situations, but I guess we should be happy that can already do so much to begin with.

[zachts]

Looking at thier info I believe that is the "typical" output voltage with one 10watt multichip hooked up. I don't know if hooking the two boards together makes a difference in minimum voltage out but all the other versions can run 1 led the data sheet lists different minimums but since they are the same boards and components I think they measured with an LED hooked up

I doubt they new what XMLs were when they wrote the specs on those (3.6v at 3000mA)

they work just like you'd expect.

[tomservo]

I did some testing this morning and came up with a few answers-

1.) You cannot parallel drive the LDD's. The drivers will not be damaged (whew!) if you try, but you're not going to get any light from an led. (Sorry TomServo ):sad1:
My best guess is- This is typical behavior for a buck regulator style of Led driver.
If you really want more than 1000ma per channel, go with a design using multiple CAT4101's, an LM3409, or a larger commercial driver rated to what you want.


O2, what if we put diodes on each LDD output? Although I realize it may need a capacitor as well to stabilize the voltage.

[O2Surplus]

O2, what if we put diodes on each LDD output? Although I realize it may need a capacitor as well to stabilize the voltage.

We're already putting diodes across the output. LOL I think the design of the driver is what's thwarting us. The Vout- seems to be important, as it's isolated from VCC-, but without an actual schematic for the innards of an LDD, we're all just stumbling around in the dark.

[tomservo]

What I'm thinking is that the outputs + are causing the short circuit protection to kick in, and if we isolate the outputs from each other, it may work. I guess I'll give it a go when I've got some to hand. I only really need the extra output on the blue channels, so it would be pretty reasonable to put some diodes on two of the channels.

[chema]

2.) The current draw for the PWM pin is 5ma @ 100% on average. Because of this, I would not recommend driving more than 6 LDD's per arduino pin. 40ma is the maximum per I/O pin according to the folks at Arduino CC.


Are you sure about those measurements? I tried to run a LED fixture with 11 LDDs controlled by Arduino UNO and it didn't work (actually I fried the Arduino) I had up to 4 LDDs connected to the same pin.

[O2Surplus]

What I'm thinking is that the outputs + are causing the short circuit protection to kick in, and if we isolate the outputs from each other, it may work. I guess I'll give it a go when I've got some to hand. I only really need the extra output on the blue channels, so it would be pretty reasonable to put some diodes on two of the channels.

Hold the phone folks! I just tried what TomServo suggested and it works! I just tried the same experiment again, but this time with forward biased (1 amp) diodes on the positive and negative outputs. The way I see it- the LDD will merely raise it's output voltage to cover the extra Vf caused by the additional diodes. As long as the diodes are rated for the drive current produced by the LDD, there shouldn't be a problem. I'll continue experimenting with the diodes and post more info later on.

[O2Surplus]

Are you sure about those measurements? I tried to run a LED fixture with 11 LDDs controlled by Arduino UNO and it didn't work (actually I fried the Arduino) I had up to 4 LDDs connected to the same pin.

I tested all 9 of the LDD's that I have on hand. A 5ma draw was the average between all of the units. I find it interesting that the LDD has such a low input impedance, as I've driven up to 20 CAT4101's from a single arduino pin. My suggestion still stands- when in doubt- use an NPN transistor to do the heavy lifting and give the arduino a break.

[O2Surplus]

Here's a schematic that shows how I got parallel output from a pair of LDD's. The strange thing is- Both LDD's operate as a single driver with respect to PWM signals. I was expecting to be able to raise and lower the output level of each LDD independently by using two separate PWM signals, but I found that whichever of the pair gets a signal first, it acts as a master to the other LDD. The slave LDD contributes to an equal share of the current load, regardless of it's own PWM value, Go figure?

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/ParallelLDDs_zps34a9323f.png

[MagicJ]

I did some testing this morning and came up with a few answers-


2.) The current draw for the PWM pin is 5ma @ 100% on average. Because of this, I would not recommend driving more than 6 LDD's per arduino pin. 40ma is the maximum per I/O pin according to the folks at Arduino CC.



That is generally in line with my measurement, but what did you measure at low PWM levels e.g. 10% - I don't know enough about this stuff to understand why, but I found that the current draw increased as the PWM level reduced.

Looking forward your results .

:beer:

[tomservo]

Here's a schematic that shows how I got parallel output from a pair of LDD's. The strange thing is- Both LDD's operate as a single driver with respect to PWM signals. I was expecting to be able to raise and lower the output level of each LDD independently by using two separate PWM signals, but I found that whichever of the pair gets a signal first, it acts as a master to the other LDD. The slave LDD contributes to an equal share of the current load, regardless of it's own PWM value, Go figure?

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/ParallelLDDs_zps34a9323f.png

Sweet! I was hoping this would isolate them sufficiently. I was just thinking that if the voltage couldn't get from one to the other, it should work.
That's weird, but it's probably better that they work together than otherwise. Did you by chance try it with diodes only on the + or - side?

Even if I can't modify the board sufficiently to stick some SMD diodes on, I bet I can finagle something. The white channels can just be single, 1A drivers since the white is overpowering anyways, and the actinic shouldn't really be run past 1A, so only two channels really need to be dual driver. Going to update the schematic soon anyways so it's done if I ever need to make more boards.

Thanks for trying!

[Ian108]

Hi guys very interesting thread, I am, currently building my rig using multiple ldd drivers for a 180g controlled by an audino mega, and I have heard that as I will be using multiple ldd drivers about 5 to 6 controlled from a single pwm output, I should put a resistor or something on the pwm output to protect the ardunio, not the greatest with electronics what would be the best way for me to do this? Cheers

[gilles0181]

Hello guys,

Here is a short question from a Dutch Profilux user.

I have 2x Profilux LedControl4 Active. More info on this forum in this link (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18312331&postcount=1).
LEDControl4 active converts 4 analog input voltages into 4 pulse width modulated (PWM) signals (Open-Drain) and includes drivers for connecting LEDs (max. 3A in sum). In order to protect a connected ProfiLux against possible interferences the input circuits and the output circuits are galvanic insulated through optocouplers. In the case of 0% PWM, the transistors are insulating (output is highly resistive), in case of 100% PWM, the output is permanently pulled to minus potential.

LEDControl4 active can produce „flashes“ during a thunderstorm simulation in ProfiLux. During a flash, the PWM-signal is temporarily set to 50%, 75% or 100%, independently from the corresponding analog input. Flashes can be output at channel 1 and channel 2, the flashing behavior can be set

This means i should have a total of 8 PWM channels. Now i would like to use the LDD-700H drivers for each channel but i am not even sure this is possible.

Question 1) Can anybody tell me if this is possible at all?

If i am correct, the PSU is not switched off by default if we send a 0% dimming signal. Is this a simple fix to implement?

Question 2) I do see a "REMOTE ON/OFF" feature on the driver, but how would i implement this?

[glarior]

Trying to figure out a problem. Finally got around to building my heat sinks and attaching all 60 deep red LED's. I wired the power supply (meanwell se-350-48v) v+/v- to rrasco board with 4 LDD700H drivers. Each driver has 15 LED's. I wired each LED set with LED+/LED- from the board. All the LED's come on! However, when I hook it up to that Jardunio it will not dim. I attached pin 7 (sump led's) to the PWM connection but I get nothing. I think it is the ground pin I am suppose to connect... but where do I connect that to for the drivers?

Here is what the user manual said on page 21. I have mine hooked up to pin 7 (sump/fuge)

The only wires you need to connect from the Jarduino to your drivers (and whatever other circuits your drivers may require) are a ground (GND) pin and the PWM pins for each respective color. You of course will need to power the LEDs, but for the sake of this manual, I will assume that you already know how or have figured out how from somewhere else. Without any modification to the Jarduino code, these are the Colors the Jarduino controls along with the respective Arduino Pin numbers:
• Pin 7: SUMP/Refugium LED Light Fixture (White)
• Pin 8: Regular Blue
• Pin 9: White
• Pin 10: Royal Blue
• Pin 11: Red
• Pin 12: UV
• Pin 13: Moon Lights
Here is what the user manual said on page 21. I have mine hooked up to pin 7 (sump/fuge)

The only wires you need to connect from the Jarduino to your drivers (and whatever other circuits your drivers may require) are a ground (GND) pin and the PWM pins for each respective color. You of course will need to power the LEDs, but for the sake of this manual, I will assume that you already know how or have figured out how from somewhere else. Without any modification to the Jarduino code, these are the Colors the Jarduino controls along with the respective Arduino Pin numbers:
• Pin 7: SUMP/Refugium LED Light Fixture (White)
• Pin 8: Regular Blue
• Pin 9: White
• Pin 10: Royal Blue
• Pin 11: Red
• Pin 12: UV
• Pin 13: Moon Lights

[rrasco]

I thought you already had the GND connected. The GND on the Jarduino should hook into one of the -VIN terminals.

[Ian108]

Trying to figure out a problem. Finally got around to building my heat sinks and attaching all 60 deep red LED's. I wired the power supply (meanwell se-350-48v) v+/v- to rrasco board with 4 LDD700H drivers. Each driver has 15 LED's. I wired each LED set with LED+/LED- from the board. All the LED's come on! However, when I hook it up to that Jardunio it will not dim. I attached pin 7 (sump led's) to the PWM connection but I get nothing. I think it is the ground pin I am suppose to connect... but where do I connect that to for the drivers?

Here is what the user manual said on page 21. I have mine hooked up to pin 7 (sump/fuge)

The only wires you need to connect from the Jarduino to your drivers (and whatever other circuits your drivers may require) are a ground (GND) pin and the PWM pins for each respective color. You of course will need to power the LEDs, but for the sake of this manual, I will assume that you already know how or have figured out how from somewhere else. Without any modification to the Jarduino code, these are the Colors the Jarduino controls along with the respective Arduino Pin numbers:
• Pin 7: SUMP/Refugium LED Light Fixture (White)
• Pin 8: Regular Blue
• Pin 9: White
• Pin 10: Royal Blue
• Pin 11: Red
• Pin 12: UV
• Pin 13: Moon Lights
Here is what the user manual said on page 21. I have mine hooked up to pin 7 (sump/fuge)

The only wires you need to connect from the Jarduino to your drivers (and whatever other circuits your drivers may require) are a ground (GND) pin and the PWM pins for each respective color. You of course will need to power the LEDs, but for the sake of this manual, I will assume that you already know how or have figured out how from somewhere else. Without any modification to the Jarduino code, these are the Colors the Jarduino controls along with the respective Arduino Pin numbers:
• Pin 7: SUMP/Refugium LED Light Fixture (White)
• Pin 8: Regular Blue
• Pin 9: White
• Pin 10: Royal Blue
• Pin 11: Red
• Pin 12: UV
• Pin 13: Moon Lights

i think you need to connect the ground pin on the ardunio the -vin on the drivers.

[lomo]

Did anyone tested common Vout- pins for separate channels?

[glarior]

Oh, so any of the v- can be hooked up the ground on the arduino board. I have both positive and negative hooked up to the power supply.

[rrasco]

Yep.

[gilles0181]

So now i would like to order the "5up LDD-H (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=21057215&postcount=494)" that O2SurPlus created at iteadstudio.
But the problem is i don't have an Arduino but a Profilux computer to control the LED lights. Since this has so much overlap, i am hoping to get some answers here and help others to.

Each LedControl4 has 4 output channels (meaning 4 drivers if i would like to dim them independently, right?)


Option 1:
I currently have the LedControl4Active (http://support.aquariumcomputer.com/downloads/Manual_LEDControl4passive_2011-02-11.pdf) which is left-over from my previous tank (this includes its own driver, but outputs PWM). According to this site (http://www.aquacave.com/Profilux-PWM-Passive-LED-Interface-for-Pacific-sun-and-DIY-LED-LEDControl-4-Passive-P3748.aspx); they state "LEDControl4Active doesn’t include a current controller, just the minus potential of the connected power supply is clocked through PWM!" Is there any way i could use this device on the LDD drivers? To be honest, i don't think so, right?


Option 2: (mainly due to contribution of anatoly.z)
I buy a new LedControl4Passive (http://support.aquariumcomputer.com/downloads/Manual_LEDControl4passive_2011-02-11.pdf) and add a 2 kOm resistor to the PWM signal output (i think 1,5 kOm will be ok as well) with 12 volts power source and a Zener diode (BZX55C5V6 - 5,6 volts). Since the LDD drivers need about 6 volts. The Zener would be connected to the ground and to the signal.


Option 3:
But since the output of the Profilux is already 0-10V i maybe could just add some more components to the board and have it all integrated without having to buy a new Profilux LedControl4?
In order to connect my aquariumcomputer i need to convert this 0-10v signal somehow to a stable PWM signal.
There is a graph of the correlation input voltage and PWM-output in the PDF.


What is your advise?
- Personally i think option 2 is the most viable option to go for.
- It would be even sweeter if 4x pullup resistor and 4x zener can added to the board, but i haven't made a single PCB in my life yet.
- Is there also a possibility to completely turn off the power supply (both the LED power supply and the Pullup power supply) if the PWM signal is 0?

A parts list would also be very welcome (since i would like to run my leds at around 750mA i think my best bet is to use 4x LDD-700H)

[Eud]

Steve's LEDs has a board that concerts 4 channels of 0-10v into 4 channels of pwm. That might be a way to do option 3 easily for about $50 or $30 if you only need 2 channels.

[O2Surplus]

So now i would like to order the "5up LDD-H (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=21057215&postcount=494)" that O2SurPlus created at iteadstudio.
But the problem is i don't have an Arduino but a Profilux computer to control the LED lights. Since this has so much overlap, i am hoping to get some answers here and help others to.

Each LedControl4 has 4 output channels (meaning 4 drivers if i would like to dim them independently, right?)


Option 1:
I currently have the LedControl4Active (http://support.aquariumcomputer.com/downloads/Manual_LEDControl4passive_2011-02-11.pdf) which is left-over from my previous tank (this includes its own driver, but outputs PWM). According to this site (http://www.aquacave.com/Profilux-PWM-Passive-LED-Interface-for-Pacific-sun-and-DIY-LED-LEDControl-4-Passive-P3748.aspx); they state "LEDControl4Active doesn’t include a current controller, just the minus potential of the connected power supply is clocked through PWM!" Is there any way i could use this device on the LDD drivers? To be honest, i don't think so, right?


Option 2: (mainly due to contribution of anatoly.z)
I buy a new LedControl4Passive (http://support.aquariumcomputer.com/downloads/Manual_LEDControl4passive_2011-02-11.pdf) and add a 2 kOm resistor to the PWM signal output (i think 1,5 kOm will be ok as well) with 12 volts power source and a Zener diode (BZX55C5V6 - 5,6 volts). Since the LDD drivers need about 6 volts. The Zener would be connected to the ground and to the signal.


Option 3:
But since the output of the Profilux is already 0-10V i maybe could just add some more components to the board and have it all integrated without having to buy a new Profilux LedControl4?
In order to connect my aquariumcomputer i need to convert this 0-10v signal somehow to a stable PWM signal.
There is a graph of the correlation input voltage and PWM-output in the PDF.


What is your advise?
- Personally i think option 2 is the most viable option to go for.
- It would be even sweeter if 4x pullup resistor and 4x zener can added to the board, but i haven't made a single PCB in my life yet.
- Is there also a possibility to completely turn off the power supply (both the LED power supply and the Pullup power supply) if the PWM signal is 0?

A parts list would also be very welcome (since i would like to run my leds at around 750mA i think my best bet is to use 4x LDD-700H)

From what I can tell, it looks like "Option two" could be made to work, but not without some modifications first. The MeanWell LDD drivers require a 5V PWM signal for dimming with 0% being "off"(0V) and 100% being "on"(5V). The LEDControl4Passive does not provide a 5V PWM signal, but a PWM'd minus/ 0V/ground signal only. You could wire it up like this and it should work. Just make sure to tie the 5V- and LDD Vin- together and there should be no problems.
http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/ProfiluxampLDD_zpsa9aa4547.png

Would somebody else take a look at this and verify it's functionality please?

[gilles0181]

I don't think i understand your picture. If you look at page 2 of the manual, they add a pullup resistor to output PWM; but how would the 2 kOhm and Zener diode be fitting into this picture?

[rott]

got the phone call today that power gate was sold out before I even placed my order there site still showed 58 in stock. I was told there website is manually updated and she told me she guessed no one had updated it yet. but she was nice about it and offered to fill the order in middle April

[O2Surplus]

I don't think i understand your picture. If you look at page 2 of the manual, they add a pullup resistor to output PWM; but how would the 2 kOhm and Zener diode be fitting into this picture?


Ok, forget the diagram that I posted. It won't work and I can't go back and edit my post. Use the diagram in the manual. It will work. The 2k resistors are there to pull the 5V signal "high" and control the current from the 5V source when the transistors pull it "low". The transistors would be damaged from over current if the resistors were not there. The Zener diode that you mentioned is probably being used as a voltage regulator for a 12V source. I'd recommend using a 5V source and tossing the zener and 12V supply.
The Meanwell LDD's seems to pull about 5ma on the PWM pin on average. I'd use a 1k ohm resistor with the 5V source, as that will provide the 5ma for the LDD. I hope that answers your question.

[Kawi9_cf]

I talked to a couple different people at powergate and they both reccomended that i call and verify stock before placing orders. They told me it would be mid march before I would have the 1000's. I eneded up biting the bullet and ordering from mouser.

[Eud]

Apparently in a couple of weeks one of the DIY LED sellers who was banned from RC at some point in the past who's name I won't mention because this thread is too good to get locked has bought up huge quantities of the LDD-1000H and LDD-700H and will be offering them, dimming controllers, and 48V power supplies.

That's what they say on the Full Spectrum LED thread over at nano-reef. Might be a better option for people wanting them than Mouser if you can wait until mid February to see what they come up with.

[megadeth72]

he got wired ones, most of us do not want those

[Kawi9_cf]

Ordering from mouser still came out to be cheaper in my case than going with the meanwell 60-48s or buckpucks

[Eud]

he got wired ones, most of us do not want those

Yep, you're right. I forgot that.

[sfsuphysics]

got the phone call today that power gate was sold out before I even placed my order there site still showed 58 in stock. I was told there website is manually updated and she told me she guessed no one had updated it yet. but she was nice about it and offered to fill the order in middle April
Glad I with held ordering, and I call complete BS on that explanation from them too, because they're still not showing 0 in stock, which they should if they can't get your order done until April.

[sfsuphysics]

Apparently in a couple of weeks one of the DIY LED sellers who was banned from RC at some point in the past who's name I won't mention because this thread is too good to get locked has bought up huge quantities of the LDD-1000H and LDD-700H and will be offering them, dimming controllers, and 48V power supplies.


Clay-boa? :D

I'm curious why there was such a run on these drivers, surely it couldn't just be us DIY hobbyist.

[O2Surplus]

Got my (20) 1000's from PowerGateLLC today!:celeb1:

[Photobug]

Got my (20) 1000's from PowerGateLLC today!:celeb1:

Rub it in.


They were out when i ordered. They have a few wired ones coming. I am not sure how I am going to place them in the line up but I ordered two wired ones just to have the 1000 ma option to power two strings. I will put 4 of the 1000H LDDs for the April order.

[gilles0181]

@O2SurPlus; electronics for dummies question 2 (ghehe)

To get it clear, i would then supply 5V to one end of the 1kOhm resistor (this is the pullup?), and connect the other end to one of the 4 driver lines, as shown in the picture right? What would i do with the V- of the 5V power supply?

Can someone point me in a right direction on the choice of drivers vs amount of leds? If i would like to use CREE XP-G R5 5W leds and i would like to run them at 700mA (LDD-700H);
The Forward voltage (@ 700 mA) for the CREE XP-G R5 5W is 3.2v; this would mean i could connect (in case of an 48V power supply) 48/3.2=15 leds if i am correct.

So does this mean that:
- i would need a power supply capable of giving (15*3.2) 48V and (15*0.7) 10.5A
(or)
- i would need a power supply capable of giving 3.2V and (15*0.7) 10.5A

So confused....

[Eud]

You're connecting them in series, so you need 48v and 700mA to run the 15 emitters. You actually need a few volts of headroom to run the drivers in addition to LEDs, but most 48v power supplies seem to be adjustable by a few volts, so you should be fine turning the power supply up to 52v or something.

[gilles0181]

You're connecting them in series, so you need 48v and 700mA to run the 15 emitters. You actually need a few volts of headroom to run the drivers in addition to LEDs, but most 48v power supplies seem to be adjustable by a few volts, so you should be fine turning the power supply up to 52v or something.

Ok, so if i understand it right:
- if i connect them in series; i'd need a 48V 700mA
- if i connect them in parallel; i'd need a 4V 11A power supply?

What is safer with aquariums? More V or more A?

And is it somehow possible to shut off the Vin when the PWM signal is 0? According to the datasheet this must be possible...

[Eud]

No offense, but this is pretty basic electrical stuff. First week in a basic electronics class. Are you sure you are ready to do a DIY fixture since you seem not to know it?

If you ran them in parallel you'd need a driver for every individual led. No one would run them that way. Also, this is an oversimplification, but voltage is safer than current.

[Kawi9_cf]

Giles how many total LEDs are you wanting to run? The cost of the drivers is relatively low I would recommend not putting 15 on one string its never wise to push the limitations. So for example if you are only wanting 15-16 leds you could do two strings of 8 on a 36v 2A power supply. The voltage the power supply is rated for will be sent to each string but the current will be split between the strings. You should always give yourself a little headroom with the current rating on the power supply. If you let me know how many LEDs you are wanting to run I will try and help you.

Current is the part of electricity that is the most likely to kill you. If you get hit with a high voltage it will more than likely knock you away from the power source if you get hit with a high current it usually locks you onto whatever is electrocuting you and you cannot let go. Current as low as 10ma can kill you so just be careful :)

[gilles0181]

Well, i've posted my same question on a Dutch computer forum with an electronics part on it. Basically i think i might have a workable solution for the LedControl4Passive.

All there is left is a schema for a 220v relay which turns off at 0V and turns on at anything above 0V.
If this is in place then i think i'll fire up Eagle for the first time in my life and try to get it all on 1 schematic.
Basically what i want is to switch the power supply for the drivers based on the PWM signal.

[sfsuphysics]

Got my (20) 1000's from PowerGateLLC today!:celeb1:

Driver hoarder!!!!

;)

[O2Surplus]

Driver hoarder!!!!

;)

LOL - I had to wait 7 weeks for those! I won't be hoarding them for very long, as they're all being paired up to some "Typhon Controllers" and shared among friends.

[gilles0181]

Let's be friends then ;)

[gilles0181]

@O2SurPlus; did you add a groundplane to the PCB? Since the (-) are not connected at all...

[O2Surplus]

@O2SurPlus; did you add a groundplane to the PCB? Since the (-) are not connected at all...

Yes- The Vin- is connected to the ground plane on both the top and the bottom side of the Pcb.

[Eud]

Got my LDD's today from Mouser! I hadn't fully appreciated just how small these things would be. Put a normal sized Sharpie next to them for comparison. Hard to believe I can put 48V and 1A through them. No boards yet though.

218847

[rrasco]

Just imagine, you have the big ones.

[iced98lx]

Just so we are clear, when I'm hooking this up (Since I'm new to this)

I've got my *Duino board on one side, and my board of LDD's on the other.

Obviously from PWM -> PWM that's an easy hook up.

I now need to tie a ground, or it doesn't work. I"m going from the GND pin of my *duino to the -V of the powersupply which is tied to the -V in of the drivers, correct?

Thanks!

[Whitebeam]

I"m going from the GND pin of my *duino to the -V of the powersupply which is tied to the -V in of the drivers, correct?
Yep!

Peter

[iced98lx]

Yep!

Peter

Thanks, you know when you hook things up you just want to be 200% sure some times ;)

[007Bond]

Sweet! I was hoping this would isolate them sufficiently. I was just thinking that if the voltage couldn't get from one to the other, it should work.
That's weird, but it's probably better that they work together than otherwise. Did you by chance try it with diodes only on the + or - side?

Even if I can't modify the board sufficiently to stick some SMD diodes on, I bet I can finagle something. The white channels can just be single, 1A drivers since the white is overpowering anyways, and the actinic shouldn't really be run past 1A, so only two channels really need to be dual driver. Going to update the schematic soon anyways so it's done if I ever need to make more boards.

Thanks for trying!

Hi Tom, are you saying that your going to update your gerber files so you can double up the LDD's ?---Rick

[tomservo]

Rick, that is my intention, I did want to try some things once I have some LDDs to play with, like using only one diode per LDD to isolate, so I have not actually updated the drawing yet. It should only take a few minutes to do it, though, if you want the files with the diodes I can probably get around to it today.

[O2Surplus]

Rick, that is my intention, I did want to try some things once I have some LDDs to play with, like using only one diode per LDD to isolate, so I have not actually updated the drawing yet. It should only take a few minutes to do it, though, if you want the files with the diodes I can probably get around to it today.


Tomservo- here's link to a schottky diode that would work well for your application. It's an SMD device and should be small enough to squeeze into your Pcb design. It's electrical specs are also inline with using it with an LDD-1000h http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PMEG6010CEH,115/568-4104-1-ND/1589917

[lomo]

Hi all I'm working on PCB board with 8 LDD-H drivers for full spectrum LED fixture. I would like to use RJ-45 connectors and Cat5 cable for dimming. I took RJ-45 connector from Adafruit library and I'm confuesd about pins used.
http://imageshack.us/a/img248/3545/rj45sch.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/248/rj45sch.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/a/img138/802/rj45c.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/138/rj45c.jpg/)

So EAGLE used pins marked with red on board, what about two pins marked with blue?! I tought that they will be used instead :S

Is this ok?

[rrasco]

Hi all I'm working on PCB board with 8 LDD-H drivers for full spectrum LED fixture. I would like to use RJ-45 connectors and Cat5 cable for dimming. I took RJ-45 connector from Adafruit library and I'm confuesd about pins used.
http://imageshack.us/a/img248/3545/rj45sch.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/248/rj45sch.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/a/img138/802/rj45c.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/138/rj45c.jpg/)

So EAGLE used pins marked with red on board, what about two pins marked with blue?! I tought that they will be used instead :S

Is this ok?

Refer to the datasheet for the part you are using. They are not all spaced the same either, I had to make my own part for the RJ45s I used on a PCB.

It looks like the pins in red are the shielding and the blue ones are not connected to anything. I don't see pins 5 or 6 on the schematic. You don't 'have' to use all the pins, if you have enough signals for what your are trying to do, it will work. I try not to leave disconnected pins on connections though, for possible future use.

[lomo]

I would like to use 8 individual channels for dimming (I can go with 6, but why not 8 when I have arduino mega) and now those pins are confusing me :S

[007Bond]

Rick, that is my intention, I did want to try some things once I have some LDDs to play with, like using only one diode per LDD to isolate, so I have not actually updated the drawing yet. It should only take a few minutes to do it, though, if you want the files with the diodes I can probably get around to it today.

Tom, if you have time yes, but don't go out of your way. I ordered my boards from ITead, but did not include the gerber files correctly, so Sunny is holding my order until I get back to her. Kind of worked out well because you and O2 worked out the doubling up thing.
I don't expect the my LDD's for a while, but with your solution I'm open to a few different combinations of LDD's to get towards 1400ma. Thanks---Rick

[Neoferdina]

Alrighty, I just want to add an interesting data point to this discussion on these drivers work...

I originally set up an NPN transistor to turn on some fans when the Vout+ pin goes to 15V or more (basically fans are on when LEDs are ON and off when LEDs are OFF). Very simple. Except, this doesn't work! Even with the driver dimmed off, the fans reamin on. Why?

So I started digging a bit deeper into the circuit and poking around with my multi and here's what I found:

LDD drivers don't work as you might expect. You would expect the Vout- pin to be equal the ground and the Vout+ pin drives to a positive voltage to drive the circuit. In this case, when the LEDs are dimmed off, Vout+ = 0V = Vout-, and when it's put to 100% Vout+ = +ve voltage and Vout- = 0V (ground). However...

They work the opposite. Vout+ always equals 24V (or whatever you input voltage is) and Vout- changes. At 0% dimmer, Vout- = Vout+ = 24V. At 100% output, Vout+ = 24V and Vout- drops in potential in order to achieve the specified drive current (in my case, 4.7V versus grnd, which gives 19.3V to drive the LEDs).

Interesting.

[Eud]

However...

They work the opposite. Vout+ always equals 24V (or whatever you input voltage is) and Vout- changes. At 0% dimmer, Vout- = Vout+ = 24V. At 100% output, Vout+ = 24V and Vout- drops in potential in order to achieve the specified drive current (in my case, 4.7V versus grnd, which gives 19.3V to drive the LEDs).

Interesting.

Good to know. Don't tie the Vout- to ground.

Can you run your transistor between Vout+ and Vout- instead of between Vout+ and ground?

So does this mean that they consume a bit of power at 0% dim since both of the pins have the voltage on them? Seems like maybe they're just passing along the voltage from the supply on both pins, so it should be similar to just having the supply plugged in and nothing connected to it.

[tomservo]

Neo: That doesn't bode well for my PCB, as I shared the ground between two channels... Looks like I'm going to have to do lots of testing on these. It sounds like the isolating diodes may only be needed on the vout- though. I expect I'll have the dimming tied together problem with those channels, but it's not a big deal for me as I can just pair those 2 channels with the white emitters.

[Eud]

Neo: That doesn't bode well for my PCB, as I shared the ground between two channels... Looks like I'm going to have to do lots of testing on these. It sounds like the isolating diodes may only be needed on the vout- though. I expect I'll have the dimming tied together problem with those channels, but it's not a big deal for me as I can just pair those 2 channels with the white emitters.

Is that why O2Surplus had to put diodes on both the + and the - when running them in parallel? I hadn't been able to picture why that was necessary.

[tomservo]

I believe he did that b/c it's the more certain way to produce the desired effect - I have a feeling that putting the diode on only the vout+ side would not work based on the way the ground floats to control voltage/current.

[O2Surplus]

I believe he did that b/c it's the more certain way to produce the desired effect - I have a feeling that putting the diode on only the vout+ side would not work based on the way the ground floats to control voltage/current.

Gimme a minute -and I'll see if the diodes can be omitted from either side of the circuit. The way I see it if the diodes do need to be on both sides, we can always wire in an Led ( XR-E,XP-G ect...) in place of the schottky, or other conventional rectifier diode. That way no permanent mods need to be made to the Pcb, just a little "creative" wiring on the led side of things to achieve parallel output.

[O2Surplus]

These drivers do not appear to the rules of physics? I removed the diodes from the Vout+ side of the pair of LDDs and they continued to work in a parallel fashion. But some "weird numbers" showed up when I did some voltage and current checks. Most of the voltage measurements were taken in relation to ground (VIN-)

VIN = 27.3V
LED Vf = 24.4

Both LDD-700H wired in parallel with forward biased diodes on Vout- only and both receiving the same 5V pwm signal.
LDD#1
Vout+ = VIN (27.3V)
Vout- = 2.1V (27.3V - 24.4V - .8V)

LDD#2
Vout+ = VIN (27.3V)
Vout- = VIN (27.3V) ??? What the Heck? Shouldn't it match the first?

Current through the led array measured 1.3amps, which is what was expected. Just for fun I removed the Vout- connection for LDD#2 to see if it would halve the current to 650ma. Nope! Current remained at 1.3amps.
This proves one thing. Current is provided and regulated from the Vout+ side of the LDD. It is not "sunk" through the Vout- connection. When wired in this condition, it appears that LDD#1 began to run hotter than LDD#2? I measured a 20 degree difference between the Two. After reconnecting the Vout- to LDD#2, the temperature began to lower and normalize between the two LDD's.
I'm afraid that-more experimenting that needs to be done, before we can be sure that LDD's can be parallel driven reliably for extended periods of time.

[gilles0181]

@O2SurPlus;
Does this new found knowledge has any effect on your PCB files for the 5Up LDD you posted earlier (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=21057215&postcount=494)? This is 10x10cm right?

@Rrasco:
Your 4Up LDD-H version (http://code.google.com/p/meanwell-ldd-led-driver/downloads/list) is this still the latest file and this is 5x5cm, right?

[O2Surplus]

@O2SurPlus;
Does this new found knowledge has any effect on your PCB files for the 5Up LDD you posted earlier (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=21057215&postcount=494)? This is 10x10cm right?

@Rrasco:
Your 4Up LDD-H version (http://code.google.com/p/meanwell-ldd-led-driver/downloads/list) is this still the latest file and this is 5x5cm, right?

Gilles-

This information is really aimed towards Tomservo, as he's trying to produce a PCB for Parallel driving LDD's. My 5 position Pcb (10cm x 10cm) is not affected by this info, as it was never intended to be set up for parallel drive.
I believe RRasco's 4 position Pcb has to be ordered using the 5cm X10cm option at Itead.

[gilles0181]

I hope RRasco can confirm this :)

[Eud]

Anyone order using the cheaper shipping at itead? How long did it take for the boards to arrive? I got the email 1/31 that it was shipped, but so far the tracking still says it's still being processed by HK post to leave Hong Kong. Hmm.

[O2Surplus]

Anyone order using the cheaper shipping at itead? How long did it take for the boards to arrive? I got the email 1/31 that it was shipped, but so far the tracking still says it's still being processed by HK post to leave Hong Kong. Hmm.

Ugh, you better have a comfortable seat cuz you're gonna be waiting a while. In my experience, shipping via "the slow boat" takes between 2 and 4 weeks to arrive. That's why it's best to just double down on the $$ and go with expedited shipping. LOL

[Kawi9_cf]

Don't worry, the chip holders are under there, along with the 1206 package resistors. It all fits fine.


Here's the board with the LDD's removed.

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/3upLDDRGB001_zpsb5d758a6.jpg

Can somebody give me a link for the 24 pin ic socket adapters. I ordered some and they are too narrow for my ldd-h drivers. I want to make sure I get the right ones this time.

[zachts]

These drivers do not appear to the rules of physics? I removed the diodes from the Vout+ side of the pair of LDDs and they continued to work in a parallel fashion. But some "weird numbers" showed up when I did some voltage and current checks. Most of the voltage measurements were taken in relation to ground (VIN-)

VIN = 27.3V
LED Vf = 24.4

Both LDD-700H wired in parallel with forward biased diodes on Vout- only and both receiving the same 5V pwm signal.
LDD#1
Vout+ = VIN (27.3V)
Vout- = 2.1V (27.3V - 24.4V - .8V)

LDD#2
Vout+ = VIN (27.3V)
Vout- = VIN (27.3V) ??? What the Heck? Shouldn't it match the first?

Current through the led array measured 1.3amps, which is what was expected. Just for fun I removed the Vout- connection for LDD#2 to see if it would halve the current to 650ma. Nope! Current remained at 1.3amps.
This proves one thing. Current is provided and regulated from the Vout+ side of the LDD. It is not "sunk" through the Vout- connection. When wired in this condition, it appears that LDD#1 began to run hotter than LDD#2? I measured a 20 degree difference between the Two. After reconnecting the Vout- to LDD#2, the temperature began to lower and normalize between the two LDD's.
I'm afraid that-more experimenting that needs to be done, before we can be sure that LDD's can be parallel driven reliably for extended periods of time.

verry interesting results......... It looks like one of the LDDs is working harder than the other regulating voltage and the other one is doing nothing in this case? (possibly all return current is routhing only thru LDD #1's Vout-)??

When measuing voltage at the LDD between Vout+ and Vout- do you get the same readings?

I wonder if they would work better if the input voltage side was isolated with diodes, I would think this already would be the case but maybe not. (this is the case on the sure electronics drivers I mentioned earlier, their configuration uses 3 diodes in total, protecting both input and output) I think it needs to be determmined how to get the LDDs to more equitably share the Load before using them long term. It may not be a big deal but if they are only rated for 1 amp and one of them is routing more than that through its Vout- then there could be long term issues with them burning out from over current??

[O2Surplus]

verry interesting results......... It looks like one of the LDDs is working harder than the other regulating voltage and the other one is doing nothing in this case? (possibly all return current is routhing only thru LDD #1's Vout-)??

When measuing voltage at the LDD between Vout+ and Vout- do you get the same readings?

I wonder if they would work better if the input voltage side was isolated with diodes, I would think this already would be the case but maybe not. (this is the case on the sure electronics drivers I mentioned earlier, their configuration uses 3 diodes in total, protecting both input and output) I think it needs to be determmined how to get the LDDs to more equitably share the Load before using them long term. It may not be a big deal but if they are only rated for 1 amp and one of them is routing more than that through its Vout- then there could be long term issues with them burning out from over current??

See, That's the "weird" thing that I mentioned. The voltage readings taken between Vout+ and Vout- appear normal at LDD #1. The readings show the Vf of the led and the Isolation diode, which is what one could expect. On the other hand, voltage readings between Vout+ and Vout- of LDD #2 show 0V. In my understanding of electricity, this means that there is no current flowing through the Vout- leg of the circuit, and actual current tests proved that.
I think, since we don't know what the exact internal "wiring" of an LDD is, that the second LDD "influences" the first, but it does not actually carry the additional load. At least not with the isolation diodes removed from the + outputs. This would explain the difference in operating temperature between the two LDD's. I know, from looking at XRay images of an LDD, that there's an inductor coil and probably a Schottky diode inside them. I wonder if the addition of the second LDD's inductor into the circuit, causes the current set point of the first LDD to be thrown off, causing the first LDD to double it's current output?

[sfsuphysics]

Another suggestion... test the current running from your LED to the Vout- of the one that is showing a dropped voltage, maybe all of the current is going out through one driver? Since they are wired in parallel, this little electrons might not know where to go :)

LDD#2 might be 27.3V out+ and 27.3V out- but the difference between out+#2 and out-#1 is still in the ballpark of physics to get you 1300mA from two drivers.

[O2Surplus]

Another suggestion... test the current running from your LED to the Vout- of the one that is showing a dropped voltage, maybe all of the current is going out through one driver? Since they are wired in parallel, this little electrons might not know where to go :)

LDD#2 might be 27.3V out+ and 27.3V out- but the difference between out+#2 and out-#1 is still in the ballpark of physics to get you 1300mA from two drivers.

That's the problem- All of the current is returning through the Vout- connection at LDD#1 and not LDD#2. I connected my amp meter between Vcc and + terminal of the power supply and measured 1.35 amps. I then removed the Vout- connection from LDD#2 expecting the current to drop. It did not, and remained at 1.35 amps. The only connection available for the current to travel back to the LDD's was through the Vout- @ LDD#1. This leads me to believe that the second LDD influences the current limiting of the first, causing it to carry double of the load.
I'm going to re-run the experiment again with all 4 isolation diodes in place and test to see if the current is actually shared between the two LDD's or not. It appeared to be shared on the first go around of testing but I want to make sure for Tomservo's sake.

[Eud]

Ugh, you better have a comfortable seat cuz you're gonna be waiting a while. In my experience, shipping via "the slow boat" takes between 2 and 4 weeks to arrive. That's why it's best to just double down on the $$ and go with expedited shipping. LOL

Yikes. And now it's Chinese New Year, so they'll likely sit in the post for a while before leaving the country. My shipping info said Hong Kong post, but the billing on my account said Guangdong, China. Maybe the company or payment processor is based in mainland China while the fab is in Hong Kong?

[Whitebeam]

Anyone order using the cheaper shipping at itead? How long did it take for the boards to arrive? I got the email 1/31 that it was shipped, but so far the tracking still says it's still being processed by HK post to leave Hong Kong. Hmm.

It's coming up to Chinese New Year too = extra delay ++.

Peter

[nemosworld]

Yay! MY 1000H pair shipped, sadly the next batch they recieve won't be till april.
(powergate)

[sfsuphysics]

That's the problem- All of the current is returning through the Vout- connection at LDD#1 and not LDD#2. I connected my amp meter between Vcc and + terminal of the power supply and measured 1.35 amps. I then removed the Vout- connection from LDD#2 expecting the current to drop. It did not, and remained at 1.35 amps. The only connection available for the current to travel back to the LDD's was through the Vout- @ LDD#1. This leads me to believe that the second LDD influences the current limiting of the first, causing it to carry double of the load.
I'm going to re-run the experiment again with all 4 isolation diodes in place and test to see if the current is actually shared between the two LDD's or not. It appeared to be shared on the first go around of testing but I want to make sure for Tomservo's sake.

Ahh I see, the way your first post went you were talking about laws of physics being violated, as if you got current from nothing. :)

So if you measure the current from the Vout+ of each driver to the LED you're probably getting the same current from each, it just is deciding to return through one driver and not both. Wonder if that is a design function or just the way things work, I'm sure from an electrical standpoint both drivers are "seeing" the same exact circuit. It's just odd that one driver is syncing to the Vout- of the other driver rather than it's own Vout-.

[zachts]

That's the problem- All of the current is returning through the Vout- connection at LDD#1 and not LDD#2. I connected my amp meter between Vcc and + terminal of the power supply and measured 1.35 amps. I then removed the Vout- connection from LDD#2 expecting the current to drop. It did not, and remained at 1.35 amps. The only connection available for the current to travel back to the LDD's was through the Vout- @ LDD#1. This leads me to believe that the second LDD influences the current limiting of the first, causing it to carry double of the load.
I'm going to re-run the experiment again with all 4 isolation diodes in place and test to see if the current is actually shared between the two LDD's or not. It appeared to be shared on the first go around of testing but I want to make sure for Tomservo's sake.

That was kind of my fear, if run like this LDD#1 may burn out at some point. since you noticed it getting pretty hot this might be a problem If you measure current from each LDD's Vout+ are you getting equal ~650 or only 1300 output on LDD#1? If you already checked that sorry, I may have missed it.

Based on the following I think diodes on both Vout + and - may be required:

I just took a closser look at the Sure drivers that i have and they have two diodes parreleled on the Vout- side presumable to handle more current than the diodes rated 1 amp? Vin + goes straight to the Vout+ thru a diode. these run on a mbi6651 chip which is only rated at 1 amp output but I guess maybe the Vout- side of the chip can handle more current? seems to create a "loop" of sorts back to Vin +(understanding that part goes way beyond my hobby eletcronics stills.....) here is a schematic I edited to reflect this driver, I added the two diodes in red, D2 & D3. Hope this helps the cause.

[daplatapus]

I got my LDD's today. You don't really know how small these suckers are until you hold one.

[Eud]

Can somebody give me a link for the 24 pin ic socket adapters. I ordered some and they are too narrow for my ldd-h drivers. I want to make sure I get the right ones this time.

Page 2 of the specsheet for the LDD-H gives the pin width spacing at 15.24mm or 0.6in with 2.54mm spacing (0.1in) between pins and a total of 24 pins. I believe this is the standard for a "Wide" IC holder.

Here's the link to the specsheet:

http://www.meanwell.com/search/LDD-HW/LDD-H-spec.pdf

and here's a link to a Mouser part, which is pretty expensive at 1.68 each compared to ones for about 0.50 each from China on ebay:

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=575-11044324

O2Surplus or rrasco can confirm better, but I think that socket part will accept the LDD-H perfectly. I'm still waiting for mine to arrive from china, so I can't confirm.

[bhazard451]

I finally found some time to start soldering the boards and 120+ leds to my fixture. I'm hoping to have it fully done by next weekend. Once it is, I'll show some pics of the drivers in action.

[sfsuphysics]

Quick question of those with LDDs (and can read current handy)... what's the current draw from the power supply to the LDD Vin+ (should be same as Vin-.. but whatever). The data sheet states 900mA (at full load) on the 1000mA version, and I'm having a friendly discussion with someone about what the power supply requirements are needed.

My thought is that it needs 900mA, so if I have 10 LDD-1000h drivers, I'd need the PS to handle 9amps

He says having more voltage necessary (54V PS with 30V needed for LEDs) will convert voltage into current at the LDD, in this example needing only about 5amps for the same 10 drivers.

Now this got me second guessing how much of current requirement I'll need from my power supply (which will be 48V)

[AMDphenomx4]

As far as what my friend who plays with electronics says, that is correct. So long as voltage is excess and PSU output is more than needed, it should work. The excess voltage has to go somewhere.

[O2Surplus]

Quick question of those with LDDs (and can read current handy)... what's the current draw from the power supply to the LDD Vin+ (should be same as Vin-.. but whatever). The data sheet states 900mA (at full load) on the 1000mA version, and I'm having a friendly discussion with someone about what the power supply requirements are needed.

My thought is that it needs 900mA, so if I have 10 LDD-1000h drivers, I'd need the PS to handle 9amps

He says having more voltage necessary (54V PS with 30V needed for LEDs) will convert voltage into current at the LDD, in this example needing only about 5amps for the same 10 drivers.

Now this got me second guessing how much of current requirement I'll need from my power supply (which will be 48V)

Ugh- When I measured the current consumption of two LDD -700H running in tandem, I measured 1.35 amps. Since the LDD is a constant current device and not a transformer, I'd error on the side of caution and use a power supply with a current rating that exceeds your required current needs by at least 20%.

[sfsuphysics]

Ugh- When I measured the current consumption of two LDD -700H running in tandem, I measured 1.35 amps. Since the LDD is a constant current device and not a transformer, I'd error on the side of caution and use a power supply with a current rating that exceeds your required current needs by at least 20%.

see, there must be some magic going on inside those drivers since it pulls less current than it puts out... at least according to the spec sheets. A 1000H pulls 900mA and puts out 1000mA.

[AMDphenomx4]

Quick question of those with LDDs (and can read current handy)... what's the current draw from the power supply to the LDD Vin+ (should be same as Vin-.. but whatever). The data sheet states 900mA (at full load) on the 1000mA version, and I'm having a friendly discussion with someone about what the power supply requirements are needed.

My thought is that it needs 900mA, so if I have 10 LDD-1000h drivers, I'd need the PS to handle 9amps

He says having more voltage necessary (54V PS with 30V needed for LEDs) will convert voltage into current at the LDD, in this example needing only about 5amps for the same 10 drivers.

Now this got me second guessing how much of current requirement I'll need from my power supply (which will be 48V)

Ugh- When I measured the current consumption of two LDD -700H running in tandem, I measured 1.35 amps. Since the LDD is a constant current device and not a transformer, I'd error on the side of caution and use a power supply with a current rating that exceeds your required current needs by at least 20%.

see, there must be some magic going on inside those drivers since it pulls less current than it puts out... at least according to the spec sheets. A 1000H pulls 900mA and puts out 1000mA.

Response from MeanWell.
Hi Jared,
Yes, if you have a 10V/500mA power supply, the LDD-1000H can turn your
3V LED on.

[Skinnysloth]

Page 2 of the specsheet for the LDD-H gives the pin width spacing at 15.24mm or 0.6in with 2.54mm spacing (0.1in) between pins and a total of 24 pins. I believe this is the standard for a "Wide" IC holder.

Here's the link to the specsheet:

http://www.meanwell.com/search/LDD-HW/LDD-H-spec.pdf

and here's a link to a Mouser part, which is pretty expensive at 1.68 each compared to ones for about 0.50 each from China on ebay:

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=575-11044324

O2Surplus or rrasco can confirm better, but I think that socket part will accept the LDD-H perfectly. I'm still waiting for mine to arrive from china, so I can't confirm.

Yeah, do a search on ebay for wide 24 pin ic socket and you should get the right ones. Here are mine soldered to the board.

http://i49.*******.com/35bxmww.jpg

[tomservo]

O2Surplus: Thanks for checking these out thoroughly for me, I really appreciate your help. It sounds like the condition you observed with the vout- (2) disconnected that the current is measured on the positive side based on floating the negative - but since the (1) can't sense the current of the (2) in this condition, it ends up carrying the extra current without sensing it. If you look at a diagram from zachts with a likely similar arrangement, the current all goes through R-SEN, but if the current being measured is only half (because the R-SEN is equal in both LDDs), then the current would actually be doubled. I think the diodes probably need to be on both sides in this case? But I'm very tired and not thinking particularly well right now.

[nettraptor]

Yeah, do a search on ebay for wide 24 pin ic socket and you should get the right ones. Here are mine soldered to the board.

http://i49.*******.com/35bxmww.jpg

i made a similar schematic in a protoboard ,.

and i have some questions.
1)is it wise to attach a 10 Ohms resistor into PWM pin of LDD to PWM pin of arduino?? (to protect arduino)
2)When the arduino is not powered i want the led to be at 0 level (closed by default) how can i do this?
3)is there any code example for day cycles of this 5 LDD arduino driver?
Thanks..

[MagicJ]

To follow-up my previous measurements on the current draw of the LDD dimming circuit I enlisted the assistance from someone who knows more about electronics then me. It turns out my measurements were sort of correct, I just had a decimal point in the wrong place.

So, the actual measurements are:

100% duty cycle - 7.7uA
0% duty cycle - 53uA

Please note that these are micro amps rather than milli amps. So, in effect, we are never going to get close to exceeding the current limitations of the Arduino pins or board.

We also checked out the dimming control on an oscilloscope - there is a very sharp edge on the cycle which apparently suggests a FET or something similar. It was also suggested that, because of the way this is working, there is no dumping of excess voltage which explains why a 48v supply with one led does not result in the LDD getting hot.

[patrikk]

Could someone tell me if this would work:

one PS (24V 9A)

2x strings of 6 Cree XML CW at 1A about 3,3V
4x strings of 6 Cree XT-E RB at 1A about 3,3V
6 LDD-100H

one PS (24V 9A)
2x strings of 2 Cree XP-E Green at 0,7A 3,3V
2x strings of 2 Cree XP-E Blue at 0,7A 3,3V
2x strings of 2 Cree XP-E Red at 0,7A 2,3V
2x strings of 5 UV led 0,7A and about 3,5V
8 LDD-700H

Can I use some resistors to be able to handle the V on the second setup?

[Eud]

Could someone tell me if this would work:

one PS (24V 9A)

2x strings of 6 Cree XML CW at 1A about 3,3V
4x strings of 6 Cree XT-E RB at 1A about 3,3V
6 LDD-100H

one PS (24V 9A)
2x strings of 2 Cree XP-E Green at 0,7A 3,3V
2x strings of 2 Cree XP-E Blue at 0,7A 3,3V
2x strings of 2 Cree XP-E Red at 0,7A 2,3V
2x strings of 5 UV led 0,7A and about 3,5V
8 LDD-700H

Can I use some resistors to be able to handle the V on the second setup?

Looks like it would work, to me.

I don't think you should put resistors on there. You'd be burning a pile of power in the resistor trying to get the voltage drop up to 24V. I assume you're doing it to try to get up to closer to 24V? It's not necessary because the driver has components that already do what you're trying to do much more efficiently.

The spec sheet for the LDD I posted above shows the efficiency with different input voltages for different numbers of chips, and it's not terrible even if you're only putting 7 volts of LEDs on a 24V power supply. But why not do 1 String of 4 green and 1 string of 4 blue and 1 string of 4 red? Fewer LDD-700H to buy, and they'd run more efficiently.

Edit: here's link to spec sheet. Go to graphs on the last page and look at the one for 24V input. http://www.meanwell.com/search/LDD-HW/LDD-H-spec.pdf

[patrikk]

Looks like it would work, to me.

I don't think you should put resistors on there. You'd be burning a pile of power in the resistor trying to get the voltage drop up to 24V. I assume you're doing it to try to get up to closer to 24V? It's not necessary because the driver has components that already do what you're trying to do much more efficiently.

The spec sheet for the LDD I posted above shows the efficiency with different input voltages for different numbers of chips, and it's not terrible even if you're only putting 7 volts of LEDs on a 24V power supply. But why not do 1 String of 4 green and 1 string of 4 blue and 1 string of 4 red? Fewer LDD-700H to buy, and they'd run more efficiently.

Edit: here's link to spec sheet. Go to graphs on the last page and look at the one for 24V input. http://www.meanwell.com/search/LDD-HW/LDD-H-spec.pdf

the reason for the additional channels are because half of them are placed together and the other haft will be on another heat sink/group. That way I can increase the light from left to right or vice versa ( sunset sunrise) .

thank you for the link missed that the range output before.

edit:
btw Does anyone know of any meanwell PS that has an output of 24V 9A that is encapsulated similar to a PS for a laptop?

[sfsuphysics]

the drivers should regulate the voltage across the leds so you dont need to regulate it with resistors

[Eud]

btw Does anyone know of any meanwell PS that has an output of 24V 9A that is encapsulated similar to a PS for a laptop?

24V at 9A is 216W. That's a decently large power supply. A non-laptop one is

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_194782_-1

But I'm not sure you'd really need a 200+ Watt power supply. I think you'd need much less. I know you're adding up the amps on each channel and coming up close to 9A, but it's not that simple.

I believe that they way that these LDD drivers do their DC-DC conversion and end up with the rated current is that they vary the voltage supplied in order to keep that current and therefore the input current is less than the output current.

So while you'll read 700mA on the output side of an LDD driver, if you are only running 2 LED's on it it's only dropping 7 Volts out of 24 Volts and you'll measure much less than 700mA current on the input side as a consequence of how it does the DC-DC conversion. Otherwise it would have to be burning up (24V-7V)*0.7A = 11Watts of power in the driver similar to your resistor idea, which it is definitely not doing.

O2Surplus or tomservo or rrasco seem to be the recent guys doing measurements like this. Do I have that right?

[sfsuphysics]

Response from MeanWell.
Hi Jared,
Yes, if you have a 10V/500mA power supply, the LDD-1000H can turn your
3V LED on.


Well that settles that, it just strikes me as odd that it says 900mA input current at full power on the spec sheet. Either way, I wish there were some places that had these in the $5 range, and not the double the price Mouser ones.

[one clownfish]

[QUOTE=patrikk;21145659]Could someone tell me if this would work:

one PS (24V 9A)

2x strings of 6 Cree XML CW at 1A about 3,3V
4x strings of 6 Cree XT-E RB at 1A about 3,3V
6 LDD-100H

one PS (24V 9A)
2x strings of 2 Cree XP-E Green at 0,7A 3,3V
2x strings of 2 Cree XP-E Blue at 0,7A 3,3V
2x strings of 2 Cree XP-E Red at 0,7A 2,3V
2x strings of 5 UV led 0,7A and about 3,5V
8 LDD-700H

I personally wouldn't waste the money driving the XM-L LEDs at only 1Amp. I'd go with the XP-G, they can be driven to 1.5 amps for half the money. The XM-L's are not anymore efficient driven at that low of a current. Check out the Cree data sheet.

[patrikk]

[QUOTE=patrikk;21145659]Could someone tell me if this would work:

one PS (24V 9A)

2x strings of 6 Cree XML CW at 1A about 3,3V
4x strings of 6 Cree XT-E RB at 1A about 3,3V
6 LDD-100H

one PS (24V 9A)
2x strings of 2 Cree XP-E Green at 0,7A 3,3V
2x strings of 2 Cree XP-E Blue at 0,7A 3,3V
2x strings of 2 Cree XP-E Red at 0,7A 2,3V
2x strings of 5 UV led 0,7A and about 3,5V
8 LDD-700H

I personally wouldn't waste the money driving the XM-L LEDs at only 1Amp. I'd go with the XP-G, they can be driven to 1.5 amps for half the money. The XM-L's are not anymore efficient driven at that low of a current. Check out the Cree data sheet.

I would also want to go 2000mA on the XML led but there isnt at this point any meanwell LDD for 2000mA so I thought I get PS and the LDD driver and place them on a socket making it very simple to change them when meanwell makes a 2000mA ( I hope they do). are there any other drivers that handle 2000mA that are efficient like the meanwell ones and similar size? I've heard people talk about the puck buck but aren't they more of a lower quality ? (I get the feeling that mean well are quality but hey I might be wrong).

if anyone has any similar suggestions for drivers as the LDD that is considered to be higher quality I would be interested.

[zachts]

I personally wouldn't waste the money driving the XM-L LEDs at only 1Amp. I'd go with the XP-G, they can be driven to 1.5 amps for half the money. The XM-L's are not anymore efficient driven at that low of a current. Check out the Cree data sheet.

Sorry I beg, to differ here. Directly quoting data sheets the xml is just under 20% more efficient than an xpg cool white (comparing r5 xpg to u2 xml)
xpg = 348 lumens @ 1amp 3.15 volts (3.15 watts, 110.48 lumen/watt)
xml = 416 lumens @ 1amp ~3.0volts (3.00 wats, 138.67 lumen/watt)

[zachts]

[QUOTE=one clownfish;21146573]

I would also want to go 2000mA on the XML led but there isnt at this point any meanwell LDD for 2000mA so I thought I get PS and the LDD driver and place them on a socket making it very simple to change them when meanwell makes a 2000mA ( I hope they do). are there any other drivers that handle 2000mA that are efficient like the meanwell ones and similar size? I've heard people talk about the puck buck but aren't they more of a lower quality ? (I get the feeling that mean well are quality but hey I might be wrong).

if anyone has any similar suggestions for drivers as the LDD that is considered to be higher quality I would be interested.

stay tuned, we are very close to a definitive answer on how to wire two LDD-1000 to get 2000mA to one LED!

[one clownfish]

Sorry I beg, to differ here. Directly quoting data sheets the xml is just under 20% more efficient than an xpg cool white (comparing r5 xpg to u2 xml)
xpg = 348 lumens @ 1amp 3.15 volts (3.15 watts, 110.48 lumen/watt)
xml = 416 lumens @ 1amp ~3.0volts (3.00 wats, 138.67 lumen/watt)

Yep, your right. Thx for correcting me, XM-L's are 16.4% more efficient. For some reason 10% and $10/pcs. was in my head. I didn't know they came down in price so much either.

[daplatapus]

Edit: re-thought my post